Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I agree @Roadphill
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,767
    Revelator wrote: »
    ...it was only after Connery was cast that Bond suddenly and loudly revealed his hidden heritage. In OHMSS Bond says "My father was a Scot and my mother was Swiss" and later tells Tracy "we can be married again in an English church, or Scottish rather. That's where I come from." Connery's casting prompted Fleming to stress Bond's latent Scottishness.
    Iconic Englishman becomes a Scot. Longtime womanizer proposes marriage, resolves to leave the Service.
    Such wild manipulations of the Bond character would be rejected today.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 16,149
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I know plenty of Scots who spent their life in England and had higher education and still kept their Scottish accent. My take on an American Bond actor: let's not even try. Didn't work with Robin Hood, or indeed borderline every British role, iconic or not.

    Bond is pretty sacred to fans and I've always loved the fact he's remained a character played by actors from the U.K. region...and one Australian. As fun as it is to watch Brolin's screen-test, I have a hard time thinking he would have lasted thru the rest of the '80's had he been cast.
    I have this feeling, though if Eon does sell after B25, we might actually get an American actor as Bond.
    Hollywood tends to cast whoever is currently popular or has a hit out at the moment. Bradley Cooper was getting cast in all kinds of roles a few years back-The A-Team film for instance. George Clooney got Batman, Shia Lebouf as well nailed the part of Indy's son after having a hit in the Transformers films. Robert Downey Jr got Iron Man, Sherlock Holmes, and now Perry Mason.
    How would we feel if another producer were to cast, say Robert Downey Jr or Ben Affleck as Bond for their production? Or the Shia Lebouf equivalent for the 2020's?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    How would we feel if another producer were to cast, say Robert Downey Jr or Ben Affleck as Bond for their production? Or the Shia Lebouf equivalent for the 2020's?
    I wouldn't be too happy about it. Not because they are American, but rather because I don't think they are suitable for the part. Neither was Brolin (it was painfully apparent from his disgraceful screentest with Maud).

    Cary Grant was American (yes, I know he was originally English but bottom line is his nationality was American) and he could have played Bond better than any of the actors bar one imho.

    If Clooney could do an English accent (he can't), I'd take him over all but 3 of the ones we've had.

    So I'm not hung up on nationality. Best man for the job I say, wherever they may come from. Some folks have varied life experiences (which include residing in other countries) which may make them suitable irrespective of citizenship. Goran Visnjic was up for it at one point from what I heard and from my understanding he is Croatian/American.

    I didn't know RDJ got Perry Mason. That's great news.
  • Posts: 16,149
    bondjames wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    How would we feel if another producer were to cast, say Robert Downey Jr or Ben Affleck as Bond for their production? Or the Shia Lebouf equivalent for the 2020's?
    I wouldn't be too happy about it. Not because they are American, but rather because I don't think they are suitable for the part. Neither was Brolin (it was painfully apparent from his disgraceful screentest with Maud).

    Cary Grant was American (yes, I know he was originally English but bottom line is his nationality was American) and he could have played Bond better than any of the actors bar one imho.

    If Clooney could do an English accent (he can't), I'd take him over all but 3 of the ones we've had.

    So I'm not hung up on nationality. Best man for the job I say, wherever they may come from. Some folks have varied life experiences (which include residing in other countries) which may make them suitable irrespective of citizenship. Goran Visnjic was up for it at one point from what I heard and from my understanding he is Croatian/American.

    I didn't know RDJ got Perry Mason. That's great news.

    It will be interesting to see RDJ's revival of Perry Mason. I remember Goran being up for CR along with Julian McMahon and others. I always thought Cary Grant would have made a dashing Bond.
    I really can't think of an American actor currently I'd find suitable for Bond, though I could picture someone casting Chris Pine or Chris Pratt just based on their current box office franchise appeal. I'm pretty selfish when it comes to Bond as I don't want a Bond actor known for another popular franchise. Often it becomes a one off like Val Kilmer doing Batman then The Saint.
    However, I do feel we're living in an era where an actor completely unsuitable for Bond could get cast. I wonder post EON, would I actually go see a James Bond film starring someone like Ben Affleck or Shia Lebouf?
    Had the internet forums existed in the Brosnan era to the level they do now- a similar topic might be whether we'd accept Bruce Willis or Jim Carrey as Bond. Back then we'd probably laugh at the idea of Willis ordering a martini. Today it seems feasible to ponder the possibility someone might seriously consider Vin Diesel a potential 007.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    How would we feel if another producer were to cast, say Robert Downey Jr or Ben Affleck as Bond for their production? Or the Shia Lebouf equivalent for the 2020's?
    I wouldn't be too happy about it. Not because they are American, but rather because I don't think they are suitable for the part. Neither was Brolin (it was painfully apparent from his disgraceful screentest with Maud).

    Cary Grant was American (yes, I know he was originally English but bottom line is his nationality was American) and he could have played Bond better than any of the actors bar one imho.

    If Clooney could do an English accent (he can't), I'd take him over all but 3 of the ones we've had.

    So I'm not hung up on nationality. Best man for the job I say, wherever they may come from. Some folks have varied life experiences (which include residing in other countries) which may make them suitable irrespective of citizenship. Goran Visnjic was up for it at one point from what I heard and from my understanding he is Croatian/American.

    I didn't know RDJ got Perry Mason. That's great news.

    It will be interesting to see RDJ's revival of Perry Mason. I remember Goran being up for CR along with Julian McMahon and others. I always thought Cary Grant would have made a dashing Bond.
    I really can't think of an American actor currently I'd find suitable for Bond, though I could picture someone casting Chris Pine or Chris Pratt just based on their current box office franchise appeal. I'm pretty selfish when it comes to Bond as I don't want a Bond actor known for another popular franchise. Often it becomes a one off like Val Kilmer doing Batman then The Saint.
    However, I do feel we're living in an era where an actor completely unsuitable for Bond could get cast. I wonder post EON, would I actually go see a James Bond film starring someone like Ben Affleck or Shia Lebouf?
    Had the internet forums existed in the Brosnan era to the level they do now- a similar topic might be whether we'd accept Bruce Willis or Jim Carrey as Bond. Back then we'd probably laugh at the idea of Willis ordering a martini. Today it seems feasible to ponder the possibility someone might seriously consider Vin Diesel a potential 007.
    I can appreciate the concern, but I'm less worried, particularly if EON sell post B25. I think any studio that purchases the rights hypothetically knows that Bond is first and foremost an English concern. That's its differentiating aspect. What makes it standout in a sea of sameness. So I'm reasonably sure that they would cast someone who is able to project that essential quality readily and confidently.

    The risk is more that they could cast someone who is a cliche rather than someone controversial imho.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I would definitely watch Jim Carrey as Bond.
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  • edited September 2017 Posts: 44
    it's frustrasting there won't be a new bond until 2019 potentially, Craig will make 5 bond flicks in like 15 years...it's ridiculously long. oh well he gotta pack up after b25, since Turner and Hiddes are implicitly out, it's surely some unknown 30s something guy.

    If it's someone more famous which i think it should i'd go with Fassbender he would be 43 and he could do 3 movies no problem. i don't see anyone who can be Craig's successor except these 3 names.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 3,333
    Revelator wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I too always believed Fleming had written the obituary in YOLT book for Connery, @thelivingroyale, but according to Charles Helfenstein, author of The Making of OHMSS, that wasn't true; Fleming was of Scottish descent himself and based Bond's heritage partly on himself not on Connery's. Charles Helfenstein was given complete access to the Fleming estate files and unearthed that Fleming had begun his research of hereditary with a correspondent at College of Arms in London long before Connery was cast as Bond. Even if Cary Grant had been cast as Bond, Fleming still intended to give his Bond creation a Scottish background.

    Yes and no. The facts are that in every previous book Bond was referred to--by the characters and the narrator--as English. There were no indications otherwise. Fleming might have started researching Bond's roots years before Connery, with an eye to making the character share part of his own ancestry, but it was only after Connery was cast that Bond suddenly and loudly revealed his hidden heritage. In OHMSS Bond says "My father was a Scot and my mother was Swiss" and later tells Tracy "we can be married again in an English church, or Scottish rather. That's where I come from." Connery's casting prompted Fleming to stress Bond's latent Scottishness.

    As for casting an American in the role--that would rightly be regarded as an insult to the British, for whom Bond is a national/cultural hero. Furthermore, we already know that American actors rarely succeed with convincing English accents, and even when they do there is still a note of play-acting in their performance. And the Bond films already have a large amount of Americans involved--casting an American as Bond would be a step too far. And it would be pointless, since Britain is renowned for the excellence of its actors--that is why they've even played quintessentially American roles, from Abraham Lincoln to Spider Man. There is very little chance of an American getting the part.
    As I pointed out in my original post, Charles Helfenstein delved into the actual Fleming archives to disprove this myth of the Connery connection. You can listen to his arguments on a James Bond Radio podcast. It's of course a matter of public record that Fleming in fact disliked the casting of Connery immensely and even used four-letter expletives when referring to his performance in Dr No. Even Wikipedia mentions: Correspondence dating back to 1960 shows that Fleming contacted a Scottish nobleman to help develop Bond's family history, in particular seeking a Scottish "Bond" family line. That's independent of Helfenstein's own research.

    And again, that's 1960, not 63. OHMSS was published on 1st April 1963, that's 7 months before Fleming finally saw Connery in the movie FRWL that would change his opinion of the actor. You're making the assumption that Fleming gave Bond a Scottish background only because of the movie casting of Dr No, conveniently forgetting that Fleming was himself of Scottish heritage, and mostly based his character on himself as a fantasy. Fleming also went to Eton, hence why his character also attended the same college. Fleming had recently got married at an older age for the first time, hence why his own creation would do the same in a later story.

    Are you therefore suggesting that if Richard Burton had originally been cast as 007 for Dr No then Fleming would have made him Welsh just to please a small minority of cinemagoers at the time that he had no idea how they'd react to either actor in the role? Considering Fleming actually sat down at his typewriter in Jamaica whilst the first film in the Eon Productions series of films, Dr. No, was being filmed nearby and wrote OHMSS -- how would he have known if Connery would be popular or not? Why would Fleming have made Bond partly Scottish without having seen a single frame of footage from Dr No and, at the same time, despising the central casting of Connery as his character? Answer is: he didn't. He based it on himself, not Connery.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Those are good points. OHMSS was written before DN came out. How about the Swiss connection, any word on that?
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 3,333
    I believe the Swiss connection has to do with Fleming's first great love while he studied at Geneva University, whereupon Fleming began a romance with Monique Panchaud de Bottomes and the couple were briefly engaged in 1931. His mother disapproved and made him break off the relationship.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Could very well be.
  • Posts: 15,106
    @bondsum this is very interesting and sheds a lot of light on Fleming's creative process. It seems that for him the films were at best a by-product.

    @ToTheRight my take on casting American actors for British roles (not only Bond) is simple: their accent is at best shoddy so why take the risk? Especially since like you said for some reason they cast a flavour of the month. It seems like since Dick van Dyke when some producers cast an American to play a Brit they think it's going to be different this time. It never is.
  • Posts: 16,149
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @bondsum this is very interesting and sheds a lot of light on Fleming's creative process. It seems that for him the films were at best a by-product.

    @ToTheRight my take on casting American actors for British roles (not only Bond) is simple: their accent is at best shoddy so why take the risk? Especially since like you said for some reason they cast a flavour of the month. It seems like since Dick van Dyke when some producers cast an American to play a Brit they think it's going to be different this time. It never is.

    Indeed. American actors performing with an accent often calls attention to itself. Keanu in the Coppola Dracula being a prime example. It's not the character, it's Keanu doing his interpretation of a British accent. One of many reasons why I really wouldn't want an American actor as Bond.
    That said I do believe popular flavors of the month get franchise roles, and with EON out of the picture we'd have a better chance of a Bond along the lines of Val Kilmer's Simon Templar. Only for the 2020's. I certainly appreciate the members here who have more faith in the Hollywood system for casting, but my cynicism tends to outweigh optimism.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    We don't know if EON will be out of the picture soon (I honestly don't mind, as long as the caretakers treat the franchise with respect). I have no concerns about Bond #007.

    This is one of (if not the best) brand IP in the business. Hollywood will treat it with kid gloves or bring the best creative minds (read Nolan) to the table to reimagine it should it be sold off.
  • Posts: 15,106
    bondjames wrote: »
    We don't know if EON will be out of the picture soon (I honestly don't mind, as long as the caretakers treat the franchise with respect). I have no concerns about Bond #007.

    This is one of (if not the best) brand IP in the business. Hollywood will treat it with kid gloves or bring the best creative minds (read Nolan) to the table to reimagine it should it be sold off.

    I wonder why so many people think Nolan would be great to the franchise. I adore what he did with Batman but that doesn't mean he'd do something that good with Bond or be nearly as inspired.

    @ToTheRight Keanu Reeves is Canadian but his casting in that pseudo Dracula playing a pseudo Victorian Englishman is symptomatic of Hollywood's "vision" when it comes to cast iconic English characters: go for the flavor of the month or a big star. It dates back from at least Dick van Dyke and I wonder why people think it would be any different now.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 2,915
    bondsum wrote: »
    It's of course a matter of public record that Fleming in fact disliked the casting of Connery immensely and even used four-letter expletives when referring to his performance in Dr No.

    It's also a matter of fact that Fleming quickly reconciled himself to Connery's casting and began praising the actor, as shown in The Man With the Golden Typewriter, Lycett's biography, etc. The idea that Fleming despised Connery's casting is untrue beyond a brief period of discomfort.
    OHMSS was published on 1st April 1963, that's 7 months before Fleming finally saw Connery in the movie FRWL that would change his opinion of the actor.

    And as you say, "Fleming actually sat down at his typewriter in Jamaica whilst the first film in the Eon Productions series of films, Dr. No, was being filmed nearby." He was involved with the production and suggested screenwriters, locations, and actors and he visited the set on multiple occasions, met the stars, etc. Dr. No was very much on his mind when he wrote OHMSS--need I remind you that he even gave Ursula Andress a cameo in the book?
    You're making the assumption that Fleming gave Bond a Scottish background only because of the movie casting of Dr No, conveniently forgetting that Fleming was himself of Scottish heritage

    No, but you seem to forget that before OHMSS Fleming consistently referred to Bond as English. If he was so keen on giving his character his own background, why didn't he do so in the nine previous books? Instead he made Bond English. Only after Connery was cast did Bond suddenly become Scottish. Fleming might have been previously flirting with giving Bond some Scottish ancestry, but it was Connery's casting that prompted him to stress Bond's Scottishness.
    Are you therefore suggesting that if Richard Burton had originally been cast as 007 for Dr No then Fleming would have made him Welsh?

    Possibly. What would be the harm of it? If the Burton film was a success, then it would tied the properties together, if it was a failure, Bond at least would have a new and interesting background detail. But since Connery was Scottish, Fleming could tie the character both to himself and the actor--a win-win. I think the decision to make Bond Scottish was based on both Connery's and Fleming's backgrounds--both are intertwined.
  • Posts: 15,106
    bondjames wrote: »
    We don't know if EON will be out of the picture soon (I honestly don't mind, as long as the caretakers treat the franchise with respect). I have no concerns about Bond #007.

    This is one of (if not the best) brand IP in the business. Hollywood will treat it with kid gloves or bring the best creative minds (read Nolan) to the table to reimagine it should it be sold off.

    I wonder why so many people think Nolan would be great to the franchise. I adore what he did with Batman but that doesn't mean he'd do something that good with Bond or be nearly as inspired.

    @ToTheRight Keanu Reeves is Canadian but his casting in that pseudo Dracula playing a pseudo Victorian Englishman is symptomatic of Hollywood's "vision" when it comes to cast iconic English characters: go for the flavor of the month.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    We don't know if EON will be out of the picture soon (I honestly don't mind, as long as the caretakers treat the franchise with respect). I have no concerns about Bond #007.

    This is one of (if not the best) brand IP in the business. Hollywood will treat it with kid gloves or bring the best creative minds (read Nolan) to the table to reimagine it should it be sold off.

    I wonder why so many people think Nolan would be great to the franchise. I adore what he did with Batman but that doesn't mean he'd do something that good with Bond or be nearly as inspired.
    In my case it's because I know he has a profound love for the franchise and because despite not being perfect, he has an excellent record of delivering films which I really enjoy. What he did with Batman is nothing short of exceptional, but I don't expect him to tackle Bond in the same manner.

    Regarding Americans, the reason I don't object to them outright is because I've been around long enough to know that anything is possible. If a short blond actor can be a decent Bond then the sky's the limit on what can happen. One has to keep an open mind, that's all.

    Broccoli is American, as is Wilson and most of the MGM/Sony execs who approved Craig. If there is a handover of the business to another studio post-B25, the new caretakers may be just as careful in ensuring we have a decent Bond #007. In fact, I'm fairly confident they will be.
  • Posts: 16,149
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    We don't know if EON will be out of the picture soon (I honestly don't mind, as long as the caretakers treat the franchise with respect). I have no concerns about Bond #007.

    This is one of (if not the best) brand IP in the business. Hollywood will treat it with kid gloves or bring the best creative minds (read Nolan) to the table to reimagine it should it be sold off.

    I wonder why so many people think Nolan would be great to the franchise. I adore what he did with Batman but that doesn't mean he'd do something that good with Bond or be nearly as inspired.

    @ToTheRight Keanu Reeves is Canadian but his casting in that pseudo Dracula playing a pseudo Victorian Englishman is symptomatic of Hollywood's "vision" when it comes to cast iconic English characters: go for the flavor of the month.

    That's right. I forgot Keanu is from Canada. Still, a big name back in 1992 thanks to Bill and Ted and Point Break to get him cast as Harker. One of the more infamous accents of the time. I certainly would hope if EON does sell after B25 the new owners steer away from current hot commodities and carefully cast 007.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Keanu is not known for his acting skills though. At least not as far as I'm aware. He's a bit of a block. His best roles have been Bill and Ted, Matrix, Speed and John Wick and these have not been all that challenging from an acting standpoint.
  • Posts: 2,081
    bondjames wrote: »
    Keanu is not known for his acting skills though. At least not as far as I'm aware. He's a bit of a block. His best roles have been Bill and Ted, Matrix, Speed and John Wick and these have not been all that challenging from an acting standpoint.

    Yes, this is true. I've even always liked him for some reason, but I've never thought of him to be a great actor.

    On the other hand, being good at accents is just one part of acting, and it's also possible to be a good actor without being good at accents (and surely to be good at accents, but not at acting - ultimately they're different skill sets).

    In any case, I don't see any valid reason to disqualify actors from the role just because where they're from. Obviously they'd need to be able to do the accent, but that doesn't necessarily depend on the person's background.
  • Posts: 12,462
    bondjames wrote: »
    Keanu is not known for his acting skills though. At least not as far as I'm aware. He's a bit of a block. His best roles have been Bill and Ted, Matrix, Speed and John Wick and these have not been all that challenging from an acting standpoint.

    Totally agree here. I'm not a Keanu hater, but his acting skills honestly are mediocre. Still, The Matrix and Speed are two films I really enjoy.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited September 2017 Posts: 45,489
    Keanu Reeves is pretty damn good in A Scanner Darkly.
  • Posts: 15,106
    bondjames wrote: »
    Keanu is not known for his acting skills though. At least not as far as I'm aware. He's a bit of a block. His best roles have been Bill and Ted, Matrix, Speed and John Wick and these have not been all that challenging from an acting standpoint.

    Yet he got cast in a Coppola movie. A rubbish one and he was awful in it but still...

    I think whether it's possible or not that an American actor can play a Brit convincingly is neither here nor there. It's whether it's plausible and probable. Given an historical track record of dreadful, dreadful, dreadful castings, my take is: don't take the risk.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,247
    I thought he was pretty good in 'Sweet November', but then again Charlize Theron was better and he didn't have an accent there.

    I wonder why so few from North America can do accents though.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I wonder why so few from North America can do accents though.
    I've always speculated it's because of a relative lack of theatrical training and because American English is more of a drawl, with less emphasis on elocution and diction. Less formal. I find that English requires more emphasis and enunciation and perhaps the nuances aren't easy to capture for someone who speaks American English regularly.
  • Posts: 2,081
    bondjames wrote: »
    I wonder why so few from North America can do accents though.
    I've always speculated it's because of a relative lack of theatrical training and because American English is more of a drawl, with less emphasis on elocution and diction. Less formal. I find that English requires more emphasis and enunciation and perhaps the nuances aren't easy to capture for someone who speaks American English regularly.

    I don't know how much theatrical training actually helps with learning specific accents later on, but maybe actors get taught some trickery there that might be useful somehow. (I really have no idea.) I've wondered to what extent formal training in acting is helpful and makes aspects of acting work easier in general.

    As for the differences in American and British (and other, such as Irish or Australian) variants of English, there are still all those differences within them, so the whole issue is complex and tricky to evaluate.

    Do Brits not do terrible American accents? If it's an American production, maybe they wouldn't get the job in the first place and they'd find Americans for the roles, but Americans doing bad British accents would still get jobs in American productions... Something like that... Just an additional idea.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Tuulia wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I wonder why so few from North America can do accents though.
    I've always speculated it's because of a relative lack of theatrical training and because American English is more of a drawl, with less emphasis on elocution and diction. Less formal. I find that English requires more emphasis and enunciation and perhaps the nuances aren't easy to capture for someone who speaks American English regularly.

    I don't know how much theatrical training actually helps with learning specific accents later on, but maybe actors get taught some trickery there that might be useful somehow. (I really have no idea.) I've wondered to what extent formal training in acting is helpful and makes aspects of acting work easier in general.

    As for the differences in American and British (and other, such as Irish or Australian) variants of English, there are still all those differences within them, so the whole issue is complex and tricky to evaluate.

    Do Brits not do terrible American accents? If it's an American production, maybe they wouldn't get the job in the first place and they'd find Americans for the roles, but Americans doing bad British accents would still get jobs in American productions... Something like that... Just an additional idea.

    TBH ive been staggered by how good our actors/actresses are at doing an American accent.

    I have had to point out to my other half that the person on screen is in fact British,and she is very surprised when it happens.

    British actors are getting plum roles on American TV and films atm.
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