Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • Posts: 16,149
    Murdock wrote: »
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    I couldn't agree more.
  • I think that like it or not, it's going to keep coming up until it happens. Which is why even though I've always said I don't want them to cast a minority actor for the sake of it, part of me hopes that the next Bond isn't white. At least then it'll be out the way with, we can all make our peace with it and we won't need to have these same conversations again and again.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Let's change every white character to a minority representative character.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    If the actor in question is the absolute best choice for the job, then I can live with it.

    However, if a minority is cast to satisfy some diversity quotient, then I will be quite upset.

    Just purely on the basis of probability and based on the pool of qualified candidates for such a role, it's much more likely to be on account of the latter than the former, which would be a real shame imho.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    And we’re fairly certain with James Bond aimed at an international market, the producers are smart enough not to make any radical changes just to satisfy the thirst of the SJW crowd.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    They were stupid enough to make Blofeld his step brother
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    They were stupid enough to make Blofeld his step brother
    And that has become the butt of jokes. I don’t they think they’ll try that idiocy again. Because if they do... then I hope some corporate business film studio company gets the IP.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    If it's not broke, don't fix it.
  • Murdock wrote: »
    If it's not broke, don't fix it.

    But by that logic we wouldn't have got Casino Royale would we. Die Another Day did very well at the time. Changing Bond's race would be a risk but if the actor was the best choice for it then I'd want them to go for it.

    I know for some people them not being white would automatically prevent them from being the best choice but I don't see it that way and I don't think EON do either. I think it's just a matter of time really, and I'm looking forward to the day it does happen because at least then the debate will be over.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Well I for one would have welcomed another Brosnan Bond film.
  • Murdock wrote: »
    Well I for one would have welcomed another Brosnan Bond film.

    Me too, I still wish he'd gotten a fifth film in 2004, but my point was that CR was a risk that paid off.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    The actor change for CR was necessary only because they wanted to start from the beginning. There was a trend for reboots and origin stories at that time, and EON jumped on the wagon after getting the rights to the source material.

    If there is a trend to cast minority actors in major franchises in the future, then perhaps EON will once again decide to follow the crowd. Otherwise, I can't see it happening. What I'm saying is Batman will probably have to go first again. Over to you Bruce.
  • Posts: 16,149
    bondjames wrote: »
    The actor change for CR was necessary only because they wanted to start from the beginning. There was a trend for reboots and origin stories at that time, and EON jumped on the wagon after getting the rights to the source material.

    If there is a trend to cast minority actors in major franchises in the future, then perhaps EON will once again decide to follow the crowd. Otherwise, I can't see it happening. What I'm saying is Batman will probably have to go first again. Over to you Bruce.

    I'd rather see Batman go first or even Superman. I'm so sick of seeing media articles advocating, say Gillian Anderson or Idris as Bond, I'd welcome the shift in focus to Superman.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The actor change for CR was necessary only because they wanted to start from the beginning. There was a trend for reboots and origin stories at that time, and EON jumped on the wagon after getting the rights to the source material.

    If there is a trend to cast minority actors in major franchises in the future, then perhaps EON will once again decide to follow the crowd. Otherwise, I can't see it happening. What I'm saying is Batman will probably have to go first again. Over to you Bruce.

    I'd rather see Batman go first or even Superman. I'm so sick of seeing media articles advocating, say Gillian Anderson or Idris as Bond, I'd welcome the shift in focus to Superman.
    I believe Bond is the preferred target because he's British and because he's a reflection of elements of the male ego.

    I agree with you though that the SJW crowd should go after Supes. He represents all that's good and wholesome in superhero world, so I can imagine he would be the most fitting poster boy for diversity.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    So, in a way, it’s the act of feminism that’s trying to destruct that “male ego” which Bond embodies. More the reasons why I will always be against the idea of Bond being anything else than white straight Anglo-Saxon sophisticated alpha male.
  • Posts: 16,149
    bondjames wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The actor change for CR was necessary only because they wanted to start from the beginning. There was a trend for reboots and origin stories at that time, and EON jumped on the wagon after getting the rights to the source material.

    If there is a trend to cast minority actors in major franchises in the future, then perhaps EON will once again decide to follow the crowd. Otherwise, I can't see it happening. What I'm saying is Batman will probably have to go first again. Over to you Bruce.

    I'd rather see Batman go first or even Superman. I'm so sick of seeing media articles advocating, say Gillian Anderson or Idris as Bond, I'd welcome the shift in focus to Superman.
    I believe Bond is the preferred target because he's British and because he's a reflection of elements of the male ego.

    I agree with you though that the SJW crowd should go after Supes. He represents all that's good and wholesome in superhero world, so I can imagine he would be the most fitting poster boy for diversity.

    I suppose Superman has been tampered with in many ways, though. I never got into it, but Smallville's re-visionary idea of having no flights or tights turned out quite successful. It just wasn't Superman to me.
    I get the impression it was aimed more for audiences who never particularly cared for Supes in the first place. Same with the newer Cavill Man of Steel.




  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The actor change for CR was necessary only because they wanted to start from the beginning. There was a trend for reboots and origin stories at that time, and EON jumped on the wagon after getting the rights to the source material.

    If there is a trend to cast minority actors in major franchises in the future, then perhaps EON will once again decide to follow the crowd. Otherwise, I can't see it happening. What I'm saying is Batman will probably have to go first again. Over to you Bruce.

    I'd rather see Batman go first or even Superman. I'm so sick of seeing media articles advocating, say Gillian Anderson or Idris as Bond, I'd welcome the shift in focus to Superman.
    I believe Bond is the preferred target because he's British and because he's a reflection of elements of the male ego.

    I agree with you though that the SJW crowd should go after Supes. He represents all that's good and wholesome in superhero world, so I can imagine he would be the most fitting poster boy for diversity.

    I suppose Superman has been tampered with in many ways, though. I never got into it, but Smallville's re-visionary idea of having no flights or tights turned out quite successful. It just wasn't Superman to me.
    I get the impression it was aimed more for audiences who never particularly cared for Supes in the first place. Same with the newer Cavill Man of Steel.
    I'm not familiar with that show. I have to be honest, he's never been a favourite character of mine (too whistle clean for my tastes). That's why I hope he becomes the target of any radical changes and controversy first. ;)
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,129
    Not this again.
    tenor.gif?itemid=3903977
  • Posts: 19,339
    If Bond is going to be black then lets make a new 'Shaft' movie and make him white...I wonder how that would go down with the black population ?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    barryt007 wrote: »
    If Bond is going to be black then lets make a new 'Shaft' movie and make him white...I wonder how that would go down with the black population ?

    Title of the movie:

    PRIVATE DICK SHAFT
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 12,837
    barryt007 wrote: »
    If Bond is going to be black then lets make a new 'Shaft' movie and make him white...I wonder how that would go down with the black population ?

    Not the same. Shaft doesn't have a history of recasts by actors who look and act completely different. Technically Shaft has never even been recast (Sam Jackson played the original's nephew). And Shaft is explicitly tied to his race while Bond nowadays isn't. Do you ever hear Bond referred to as white secret agent James Bond in the media? No. Shaft is called the black private dick in his own theme song. Bond's whiteness used to be synomynous with his identity because of his posh background. But I don't think it is anymore. British upper class secret agent doesn't have to mean white in 2018.

    There really isn't an equivalent where the "how about a white xxx" example works imo. The only equivalent characters to Bond I can think of where there's been a precedent set for similarly drastic recasts are Batman and Doctor Who.

    And to be honest I think a black Batman is actually much harder to justify. He's really rich from a famous old money family. That doesn't really work if slavery was legal just a few generations ago.

    But for Bond his background isn't important to the character and even so, you could have a minority actor play the old Etonian side nowadays. If anything him not being white would add to what Vesper said in CR, about not being accepted in Eton because he didn't come from money, didn't fit the mold.
    So, in a way, it’s the act of feminism that’s trying to destruct that “male ego” which Bond embodies. More the reasons why I will always be against the idea of Bond being anything else than white straight Anglo-Saxon sophisticated alpha male.

    What does feminism have to do with it? And wouldn't Brosnan and Connery be celts rather than anglo-saxons?

    I'm not an "SJW" who's out to destroy all your white heroes. I just don't see any reason why the modern Bond has to be white. Isn't what Fleming wrote? Okay but the films and actors have already strayed really far from Fleming to the point that some are unrecogniseable. The only real argument I can think of for him having to be white is that he always has been up to this point, which I don't think is a good argument for him to stay white because his appearance and personality change all the time.

    I'm not saying he has to be black or asian or anything else either. I'm saying it doesn't matter either way to me and frankly I don't get why it's such a big deal to so many. I've read comments from some saying they'd stop watching the films. Stop watching the films we all love so much because the actor is a different colour. Moonraker, Brofeld and other deviations from Fleming are fine, as is the actor looking nothing like Fleming's Bond as long as he's still white, but changing Bond's skin colour is apparently the line. To me that's mental. Wouldn't have any more of an impact on his character than changing his hair colour imo.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited January 2018 Posts: 15,423
    So, in a way, it’s the act of feminism that’s trying to destruct that “male ego” which Bond embodies. More the reasons why I will always be against the idea of Bond being anything else than white straight Anglo-Saxon sophisticated alpha male.

    What does feminism have to do with it? And wouldn't Brosnan and Connery be celts rather than anglo-saxons?

    I'm not an "SJW" who's out to destroy all your white heroes. I just don't see any reason why the modern Bond has to be white. Isn't what Fleming wrote? Okay but the films and actors have already strayed really far from Fleming to the point that some are unrecogniseable. The only real argument I can think of for him having to be white is that he always has been up to this point, which I don't think is a good argument for him to stay white because his appearance and personality change all the time.

    I'm not saying he has to be black or asian or anything else either. I'm saying it doesn't matter either way to me and frankly I don't get why it's such a big deal to so many. I've read comments from some saying they'd stop watching the films. Stop watching the films we all love so much because the actor is a different colour. Moonraker, Brofeld and other deviations from Fleming are fine, as is the actor looking nothing like Fleming's Bond as long as he's still white, but changing Bond's skin colour is apparently the line. To me that's mental. Wouldn't have any more of an impact on his character than changing his hair colour imo.
    Celts are still Anglos. The difference between Celts and Saxons is a mere point of slight difference, sharing almost the same heritage. Operative word being "almost". As for feminism, when SJW people want Bond to be female, it's only a feminist dream to crush that "male ego" and get a peace of that cultural cake by turning it their own.

    White characters are seen as "defaults", so changing them to another ethnic image is okay by the SJW crowd. But, if vice versa happens, the outcry of "whitewashing" is to be heard loud and the filmmakers/authors/creators are to be demanded to be burned at the stake. Why not cast a white actor to play Shaft, hmm? Because his world is in the ghetto underworld and that only applies to black people? Do contradictors mean that a white person can't be a hero in the ghetto underworld? Isn't that racist? (I'm speaking hypothetically here, not exactly responding to a quote that refers to something you said.)

    I'm not here to spew hate upon anybody because that's the last thing I would ever think of. These "unwritten rules" that are referred to above by other members is there to apply on properties you can't corrupt or pervert. When things are created as they are, it's hideously atrocious to change it just to please a few minority groups. Don't mess with a creation's outlines. Bond is... let me spell it... white straight alpha male working for the British government and the main canon is that Fleming retconned him to be of Scottish-Swiss descent despite considering himself as an Englishman. That's canon and don't change it.

    Now, my apologies in advance if you take my comments in a rather offensive manner because I don't mean any offense to begin with. Some things however should not be tampered with because ultimately they will lose their image, template, presentation and place. Let's not do that.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I don't think it's so much feminism specifically, as it is that the criticisms and rallying calls are coming from the same place psychologically. A place of historic repression and therefore a desire for affirmative action. I've never agreed with that personally.

    In general I believe the best person should get the job, regardless of race, sex etc. I recognize that life isn't fair and minority groups have to be protected, otherwise the majority will always get their way. However, to me that implies they should be given due consideration in the selection process, and not that they should necessarily be selected from a pool in order to make some sort of fairness or political statement.

    At the end of the day it's quite unlikely just from a probability perspective that the best candidate for the role of James Bond is going to be a minority actor, because by definition they are a minority (from the pool of possible candidates). Is it possible? Sure. As an example, if there was an actor with the charisma and capabilities of a young Denzel Washington in the pool I think many would be hard pressed not to select him. Elba should at least make the finals.

    Regarding his Etonian background etc., as I said in an earlier post, I personally still just find it easier to believe that a white actor comes from such a background (even if in Bond's case he didn't really belong there). Part of that is because we have a 50 year history which frames my expectations (and films which I revisit often), and part of it is because there are certain characteristics about Bond (including his womanizing) which I can more readily associate on film with a white actor. In time could my perceptions change as the world changes? Of course, but not yet. As an example, thuggish brooding working class Daniel Craig with his ill fitting suits doesn't quite fit my perception of cinematic James Bond, and I'm still coming to terms with it. I'd rather we not deviate even further from a template for the time being.

    The point about Batman being a more difficult fit, given he's from old money, is a valid one. However no such problems exist with Superman. Let him go first.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Black actors can play white characters.
    CHAPPELLE_03_0301_HIPHOPNEWS_640x360.jpg
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    In general I believe the best person should get the job, regardless of race, sex etc.
    Mate, are you saying you would have no problem when Charlize Theron, Gillian Anderson or some other aspiring action starlet gets the James Bond role?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    In general I believe the best person should get the job, regardless of race, sex etc.
    Mate, are you saying you would have no problem when Charlize Theron, Gillian Anderson or some other aspiring action starlet gets the James Bond role?
    No, of course not and I should have been clearer. I was speaking more broadly in the context of employment fairness. Everyone should get a shot in that context, but ultimately the selection process should be based on who's best for the role in question. As an example, and at the risk of causing an uproar, I have no problem with Hooters insisting that their employees meet certain minimum physical characteristics.

    In the case of Bond, I don't want Jamie Bell because he's too short and I just don't think he looks the part. Can I be accused of some 'ism' as a result given today's sensibilities? Sure. Perhaps I am guilty of it. However, the character as I perceive him is not Jamie Bell. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have a chance to audition, if he meets other criteria for the role.
  • Posts: 15,106
    So any new name?
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I think anything done that would make fleming turn in his grave shouldn’t be done. Period. That’s an easy way of knowing what’s too far.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    I think anything done that would make fleming turn in his grave shouldn’t be done. Period. That’s an easy way of knowing what’s too far.

    Exactly! If you asked Fleming whether Bond should be black or gay he would have laughed in your face. Who knows better than the creator himself?
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    I think anything done that would make fleming turn in his grave shouldn’t be done. Period. That’s an easy way of knowing what’s too far.

    Well, i would argue that somewhere between DAF and MR we have long crossed that line...
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