Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • talos7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    dragonsky wrote: »
    I think the majority don't care. I'd imagine a black (or asian or whatever) Bond would be like a female Doctor Who was: outrage in some circles, proper praise in others, but the majority just wouldn't be bothered either way and things would have settled down by the time his first film was over and done with.

    I agree with Barbara's recent comments. His race isn't really relevant anymore in 2020 that's just his appearance which has already changed loads, so the way I see it he can be any colour. But a woman shouldn't even be a suggestion. He wouldn't be Bond anymore.

    To be honest I suggest those who are dead against it brace themselves for the possibility. Could just be keeping the press happy obviously but I dunno she's a pretty progressive sort so I genuinely think the next one might not be white. And I'd like this place to still be bearable if/when that happens so can we all promise now whether we agree or disagree with the casting to keep calm and not start screaming at eachother over it? I know this sort of thing is a recipe for the PC gone mad crowd and the woke crowd to start really getting at eachother but I'd hate for this site which I've been on and enjoyed for years to devolve into toxic arguments.


    If "Bond's appearance changed so much, in 2020 it shouldn't be a problem"

    Why you think that Bond shouldn't be a woman?

    After all...Bond's appearance changed so much, in 2020 it shouldn't be a problem

    Or maybe you think that Superman should be played by a black guy too since he also changed appearance so many times? And since his logo was changed so many times in the movies (different shapes) maybe instead of S they can put just a square? Or maybe since he once wore pants over his suit and his suits changed so many times, there should be n problem if he wore green outfit?
    I mean..Superman is more than his outfit surely?
    That's it!
    Superman with a square logo and a green outfit = Superman.
    He's a fictional character who's logo was changed so much, and Superman is a CHARACTER and not an outift.

    This is not like The Doctor since The Doctor is a character who regenerates.
    The Doctor being a woman is something that's been canonized. He can regenerate into whatever. That's not something huge.
    The Doctor can literally be a squirrel and it would make sense.

    Because changing his skin colour is a matter of appearance for me (I realise for others like you it holds more baggage so fair enough, I've had this conversation too many times, we're not going to change eachothers mind). Changing his gender is changing the character entirely. Bond's whole character is based around masculinity. You can do colourblind casting. You can't do genderblind casting, because a character is either a man or a woman (or identifies as neither or whatever, bit behind with the times on that but whatever floats your boat). And Bond is a man. So they'll always have to cast a man. That's the way I see it. Obviously it's different if it's a film about race or a period piece or something, then you need to take race into account for casting. But that doesn't apply to the modern Bond films imo. The scripts/stories necessitate a good looking, credibly tough looking man for the part, but they don't necessitate that he's white.

    I was comparing it to Doctor Who in terms of how much people would care, because people above were talking about it. They cast a female Doctor. The woke crowd loved it. The PC gone mad crowd hated it. The majority just didn't care, and by the time we got to her second series, which is on now, her gender isn't even being mentioned at all in conversations about it anymore. She's not the new woman doctor anymore, she's just the doctor now.

    I agree it's not the same (hence why Bond can't be a woman) but I think that's what would happen with the reaction to a black Bond. Some would love it, some would hate it, most wouldn't be bothered either way, and after the initial shock it'd be completely forgotten about and people would just be talking about him like they do any other Bond.

    And sure cast a black Superman, I don't care. I don't know much about him but would it really make a difference. Don't know much about him so maybe I'm wrong but, like Bond, there's nothing about his character in modern times that says "white man" is there. So I wouldn't be bothered. Someone will probably throw out the white Shaft thing any minute now too, which I've always said is different because being black is literally his whole identity, but y'know what why not. It's not the end of the world is it. Make him one of those white guys that reeaally wants to be black. That could actually be a pretty funny spin ;)

    Michale B Jordan of Creed and Black Panther fame has recently pitched a Superman film with him in the title role.

    He has clout right now and I can see this being seriously considered.

    https://movieweb.com/superman-michael-b-jordan-pitch/

    If Michael B Jordan was English he'd be the top of my list for the next Bond...he's gorgeous, athletic, has swagger, he's cool, urbane, sophisticated and a fine dresser. Not to mention a terrific actor. Someone with movie star charisma. Women love him and so do men.......he'd be perfect.

    I mean, we have had an English actor play Batman and Superman. Maybe an American playing Bond isn't a horrible idea.

    I have no strong predilection for being described as a 'true fan' - seems to me a bit a vague and ambiguous title to aspire for. but I could be down for either Elba or Jordan taking the role. If that puts my 'fan' credentials to shame, then so be it.

    Michael-B-Jordan-Mock-Neck.jpg

    Why-Michael-B-Jordan-looks-good-in-a-suit-5.jpg

    MV5BMjA0NDA4ODgyNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwOTA0OTM1NTM@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,666,1000_AL_.jpg

    An American playing Bond IS a horrible idea. As is Jordan playing Bond. Borderline 'trolling' Ha ha ha!

    Timothy Dalton is half American from his mother. Both Daniel Craig and Pierce Brosnan are American citizens.......so.......
    If pollitical correctness hasn't gone mad, then why is it ok to call black people black, when they aren't actually black? Unless there is someone out there, who is genuinely noir.

    Anyway, i'd like to continue my support for Scott Adkins. When I think of Bonds image, lately I have been think not of the Hoagy Carchmichael comparrison, but of Vivienne's reaction in TSWLM. With that in mind, I think Adkins fits that more than any other candidate right now.

    There is also that guy in the gambling advert, he needs a hair cut and shave, but he has a strong, tough look to his face, one might even say a little weathered. I can't imagine another unknown being cast though.

    Why is it okay to call 'white people' white? I'm not white, certainly not printer paper white. Those are just generalized terms, nothing more.
    @Pierce2Daniel Your definition of Bond is different from mine and many others. That's okay. You more or less support an entity that isn't really Bond, your version of him more like. Which is also okay.

    Bond is a fictional character. I don't support him like a political party or a football team. i enjoy the films as entertainment, escapism and their historical significance. Basically I geek out on Bond films. I'm not praying to any sacred texts.

    i want a great film - that's well crafted, with great themes and performances. That's kinda it.

    If the best actor for the role is black, then so be it. Personally, whilst Jordan isn't entirely feasible as he is American. I still believe that Idris is the best and most exciting actor for the role.....He just is James Bond

    idris-1-978x600.jpg

    original
    suavejmf wrote: »
    If pollitical correctness hasn't gone mad, then why is it ok to call black people black, when they aren't actually black? Unless there is someone out there, who is genuinely noir.

    Anyway, i'd like to continue my support for Scott Adkins. When I think of Bonds image, lately I have been think not of the Hoagy Carchmichael comparrison, but of Vivienne's reaction in TSWLM. With that in mind, I think Adkins fits that more than any other candidate right now.

    There is also that guy in the gambling advert, he needs a hair cut and shave, but he has a strong, tough look to his face, one might even say a little weathered. I can't imagine another unknown being cast though.

    Why is it okay to call 'white people' white? I'm not white, certainly not printer paper white. Those are just generalized terms, nothing more.
    @Pierce2Daniel Your definition of Bond is different from mine and many others. That's okay. You more or less support an entity that isn't really Bond, your version of him more like. Which is also okay.

    Fleming described Bond as looking like musician Hoagy Carmichael. As such, we’ve never gotten a screen incarnation of 007 who matches Fleming’s description perfectly, and across 50+ years there has been quite a bit of variation. Black hair, brown hair, blonde hair. Blue eyes, brown eyes. Scottish, Welsh, Irish, even an Australian. The persona, too, tends to shift with each portrayal: Sean Connery’s earthy, predatory swagger; Roger Moore’s upper crust dandyism; Daniel Craig’s “blunt instrument” interpretation. But whatever the variations thus far, there’s a glaring commonality among these actors which - let’s just say it - clearly leaves Idris Elba out of the running.

    I’d venture to say that casting a black actor to take over the role of Great Britain’s iconic savior is more than a template shift. It’s in some ways a reinvention of the character at a core DNA level. With this in mind it certainly isn't ok to change this IMO.

    Fleming isn't in charge of James Bond anymore, she is and she says he can be any race......


    Broccoli’s response is a careful treading of a figurative minefield, deft diplomacy.
    Now I can’t read her mind, but even if she believes that Bond should continue to be portrayed by a Caucasian actor, not because of racism but because of preference and tradition of an established character, there is no way in hell that she would disturb that hornets nest by expressing it.

    Just been on Twitter, can't believe her comments on that are 'trending'.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,185
    talos7 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    dragonsky wrote: »
    I think the majority don't care. I'd imagine a black (or asian or whatever) Bond would be like a female Doctor Who was: outrage in some circles, proper praise in others, but the majority just wouldn't be bothered either way and things would have settled down by the time his first film was over and done with.

    I agree with Barbara's recent comments. His race isn't really relevant anymore in 2020 that's just his appearance which has already changed loads, so the way I see it he can be any colour. But a woman shouldn't even be a suggestion. He wouldn't be Bond anymore.

    To be honest I suggest those who are dead against it brace themselves for the possibility. Could just be keeping the press happy obviously but I dunno she's a pretty progressive sort so I genuinely think the next one might not be white. And I'd like this place to still be bearable if/when that happens so can we all promise now whether we agree or disagree with the casting to keep calm and not start screaming at eachother over it? I know this sort of thing is a recipe for the PC gone mad crowd and the woke crowd to start really getting at eachother but I'd hate for this site which I've been on and enjoyed for years to devolve into toxic arguments.


    If "Bond's appearance changed so much, in 2020 it shouldn't be a problem"

    Why you think that Bond shouldn't be a woman?

    After all...Bond's appearance changed so much, in 2020 it shouldn't be a problem

    Or maybe you think that Superman should be played by a black guy too since he also changed appearance so many times? And since his logo was changed so many times in the movies (different shapes) maybe instead of S they can put just a square? Or maybe since he once wore pants over his suit and his suits changed so many times, there should be n problem if he wore green outfit?
    I mean..Superman is more than his outfit surely?
    That's it!
    Superman with a square logo and a green outfit = Superman.
    He's a fictional character who's logo was changed so much, and Superman is a CHARACTER and not an outift.

    This is not like The Doctor since The Doctor is a character who regenerates.
    The Doctor being a woman is something that's been canonized. He can regenerate into whatever. That's not something huge.
    The Doctor can literally be a squirrel and it would make sense.

    Because changing his skin colour is a matter of appearance for me (I realise for others like you it holds more baggage so fair enough, I've had this conversation too many times, we're not going to change eachothers mind). Changing his gender is changing the character entirely. Bond's whole character is based around masculinity. You can do colourblind casting. You can't do genderblind casting, because a character is either a man or a woman (or identifies as neither or whatever, bit behind with the times on that but whatever floats your boat). And Bond is a man. So they'll always have to cast a man. That's the way I see it. Obviously it's different if it's a film about race or a period piece or something, then you need to take race into account for casting. But that doesn't apply to the modern Bond films imo. The scripts/stories necessitate a good looking, credibly tough looking man for the part, but they don't necessitate that he's white.

    I was comparing it to Doctor Who in terms of how much people would care, because people above were talking about it. They cast a female Doctor. The woke crowd loved it. The PC gone mad crowd hated it. The majority just didn't care, and by the time we got to her second series, which is on now, her gender isn't even being mentioned at all in conversations about it anymore. She's not the new woman doctor anymore, she's just the doctor now.

    I agree it's not the same (hence why Bond can't be a woman) but I think that's what would happen with the reaction to a black Bond. Some would love it, some would hate it, most wouldn't be bothered either way, and after the initial shock it'd be completely forgotten about and people would just be talking about him like they do any other Bond.

    And sure cast a black Superman, I don't care. I don't know much about him but would it really make a difference. Don't know much about him so maybe I'm wrong but, like Bond, there's nothing about his character in modern times that says "white man" is there. So I wouldn't be bothered. Someone will probably throw out the white Shaft thing any minute now too, which I've always said is different because being black is literally his whole identity, but y'know what why not. It's not the end of the world is it. Make him one of those white guys that reeaally wants to be black. That could actually be a pretty funny spin ;)

    Michale B Jordan of Creed and Black Panther fame has recently pitched a Superman film with him in the title role.

    He has clout right now and I can see this being seriously considered.

    https://movieweb.com/superman-michael-b-jordan-pitch/

    If Michael B Jordan was English he'd be the top of my list for the next Bond...he's gorgeous, athletic, has swagger, he's cool, urbane, sophisticated and a fine dresser. Not to mention a terrific actor. Someone with movie star charisma. Women love him and so do men.......he'd be perfect.

    I mean, we have had an English actor play Batman and Superman. Maybe an American playing Bond isn't a horrible idea.

    I have no strong predilection for being described as a 'true fan' - seems to me a bit a vague and ambiguous title to aspire for. but I could be down for either Elba or Jordan taking the role. If that puts my 'fan' credentials to shame, then so be it.

    Michael-B-Jordan-Mock-Neck.jpg

    Why-Michael-B-Jordan-looks-good-in-a-suit-5.jpg

    MV5BMjA0NDA4ODgyNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwOTA0OTM1NTM@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,666,1000_AL_.jpg

    An American playing Bond IS a horrible idea. As is Jordan playing Bond. Borderline 'trolling' Ha ha ha!

    Timothy Dalton is half American from his mother. Both Daniel Craig and Pierce Brosnan are American citizens.......so.......
    If pollitical correctness hasn't gone mad, then why is it ok to call black people black, when they aren't actually black? Unless there is someone out there, who is genuinely noir.

    Anyway, i'd like to continue my support for Scott Adkins. When I think of Bonds image, lately I have been think not of the Hoagy Carchmichael comparrison, but of Vivienne's reaction in TSWLM. With that in mind, I think Adkins fits that more than any other candidate right now.

    There is also that guy in the gambling advert, he needs a hair cut and shave, but he has a strong, tough look to his face, one might even say a little weathered. I can't imagine another unknown being cast though.

    Why is it okay to call 'white people' white? I'm not white, certainly not printer paper white. Those are just generalized terms, nothing more.
    @Pierce2Daniel Your definition of Bond is different from mine and many others. That's okay. You more or less support an entity that isn't really Bond, your version of him more like. Which is also okay.

    Bond is a fictional character. I don't support him like a political party or a football team. i enjoy the films as entertainment, escapism and their historical significance. Basically I geek out on Bond films. I'm not praying to any sacred texts.

    i want a great film - that's well crafted, with great themes and performances. That's kinda it.

    If the best actor for the role is black, then so be it. Personally, whilst Jordan isn't entirely feasible as he is American. I still believe that Idris is the best and most exciting actor for the role.....He just is James Bond

    idris-1-978x600.jpg

    original
    suavejmf wrote: »
    If pollitical correctness hasn't gone mad, then why is it ok to call black people black, when they aren't actually black? Unless there is someone out there, who is genuinely noir.

    Anyway, i'd like to continue my support for Scott Adkins. When I think of Bonds image, lately I have been think not of the Hoagy Carchmichael comparrison, but of Vivienne's reaction in TSWLM. With that in mind, I think Adkins fits that more than any other candidate right now.

    There is also that guy in the gambling advert, he needs a hair cut and shave, but he has a strong, tough look to his face, one might even say a little weathered. I can't imagine another unknown being cast though.

    Why is it okay to call 'white people' white? I'm not white, certainly not printer paper white. Those are just generalized terms, nothing more.
    @Pierce2Daniel Your definition of Bond is different from mine and many others. That's okay. You more or less support an entity that isn't really Bond, your version of him more like. Which is also okay.

    Fleming described Bond as looking like musician Hoagy Carmichael. As such, we’ve never gotten a screen incarnation of 007 who matches Fleming’s description perfectly, and across 50+ years there has been quite a bit of variation. Black hair, brown hair, blonde hair. Blue eyes, brown eyes. Scottish, Welsh, Irish, even an Australian. The persona, too, tends to shift with each portrayal: Sean Connery’s earthy, predatory swagger; Roger Moore’s upper crust dandyism; Daniel Craig’s “blunt instrument” interpretation. But whatever the variations thus far, there’s a glaring commonality among these actors which - let’s just say it - clearly leaves Idris Elba out of the running.

    I’d venture to say that casting a black actor to take over the role of Great Britain’s iconic savior is more than a template shift. It’s in some ways a reinvention of the character at a core DNA level. With this in mind it certainly isn't ok to change this IMO.

    Fleming isn't in charge of James Bond anymore, she is and she says he can be any race......


    Broccoli’s response is a careful treading of a figurative minefield, deft diplomacy.
    Now I can’t read her mind, but even if she believes that Bond should continue to be portrayed by a Caucasian actor, not because of racism but because of preference and tradition of an established character, there is no way in hell that she would disturb that hornets nest by expressing it.

    Just been on Twitter, can't believe her comments on that are 'trending'.

    How predictably moronic.
    She said those exact words two years ago and barely anyone cared. But now people are making a fuss about it?

    I think it was smart timing from Barbara to dismiss the idea of a female Bond again, to counter the 'Nomi taking over' rumors.
    But people read way too much into the race comments.

    Barbara can comfortably talk about female Bonds because she is a woman. (Imagine if Michael said it instead).
    But as white people they can not openly dismiss the idea of a Bond with different ethnicity because they will catch a ton of shit and be called racists. Thats how the internet works nowadays, sadly.

    Also even IF they test black actors, or any other ethnicity than causcasian in the future, they will probably still end up with a 8/2 ratio for white actors, so how likely is it going to be that a Black actor will be picked?

    The only way you end up with a black Bond is if you really, REALLY wanna hire someone because of his skin color. Which is the most appaling and racist idea ever. Everybody would hate it.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    @00Agent I made this point more or less to @dublonothing on Twitter yesterday, that the lack of suitable black British actors was more than likely the reason a white actor will continue as Bond for the foreseeable future.
    Statistically, Bond will remain a white man simply because of the lack of competition.

    It shows you how tough it is for black talent to make a mark in that industry.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,185
    NicNac wrote: »
    @00Agent I made this point more or less to @dublonothing on Twitter yesterday, that the lack of suitable black British actors was more than likely the reason a white actor will continue as Bond for the foreseeable future.
    Statistically, Bond will remain a white man simply because of the lack of competition.

    It shows you how tough it is for black talent to make a mark in that industry.

    But it's not like we are not letting Black actors into the Bond films. There are tons of job opportunities. It's doesn't always have to be James Bond himself. I would like to win the lottery too, but thats not gonna happen so i keep working the job i can get. Thats life.

    Idris is almost as big as Bond now, Naomi Harris is a Superstar thanks to Bond. Felix is a big role, but he's not from the UK. Colin Salmon had a great run on Bond. I don't know what people are complaining about. I would say there are more famous black british actors out there then ever before. Marvel, Star wars, etc
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 6,709
    Well said, @00Agent
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    00Agent wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    @00Agent I made this point more or less to @dublonothing on Twitter yesterday, that the lack of suitable black British actors was more than likely the reason a white actor will continue as Bond for the foreseeable future.
    Statistically, Bond will remain a white man simply because of the lack of competition.

    It shows you how tough it is for black talent to make a mark in that industry.

    But it's not like we are not letting Black actors into the Bond films. There are tons of job opportunities. It's doesn't always have to be James Bond himself. I would like to win the lottery too, but thats not gonna happen so i keep working the job i can get. Thats life.

    Idris is almost as big as Bond now, Naomi Harris is a Superstar thanks to Bond. Felix is a big role, but he's not from the UK. Colin Salmon had a great run on Bond. I don't know what people are complaining about. I would say there are more famous black british actors out there then ever before. Marvel, Star wars, etc

    I thought that as well when I was writing that last post. There is black talent out there (when you consider how many famous British black actors there were in the 70s, 80s and 90s!) and they do pick up good roles in big franchises. But the reality is, for every Chiwetel Ejiofor there are a dozen Tom Hardys.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,185
    What pisses me off slight is that Eon have long opened the doors for diversity casting and they DO give black actors great Jobs, but they don't even get public credit for that. Naomi, Jeffrey, both play roles that were traditionally white, but they made it work. I would be open to a black M as well, because that has worked in the Dynamite comics series.

    BUT James Bond is all around the world known as the quintessential British upper class snob.
    Put an indian, asian or black on that Poster and Bond will loose something in the process. Until it all falls apart.
    NicNac wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    @00Agent I made this point more or less to @dublonothing on Twitter yesterday, that the lack of suitable black British actors was more than likely the reason a white actor will continue as Bond for the foreseeable future.
    Statistically, Bond will remain a white man simply because of the lack of competition.

    It shows you how tough it is for black talent to make a mark in that industry.

    But it's not like we are not letting Black actors into the Bond films. There are tons of job opportunities. It's doesn't always have to be James Bond himself. I would like to win the lottery too, but thats not gonna happen so i keep working the job i can get. Thats life.

    Idris is almost as big as Bond now, Naomi Harris is a Superstar thanks to Bond. Felix is a big role, but he's not from the UK. Colin Salmon had a great run on Bond. I don't know what people are complaining about. I would say there are more famous black british actors out there then ever before. Marvel, Star wars, etc

    I thought that as well when I was writing that last post. There is black talent out there (when you consider how many famous British black actors there were in the 70s, 80s and 90s!) and they do pick up good roles in big franchises. But the reality is, for every Chiwetel Ejiofor there are a dozen Tom Hardys.

    Whats the ratio of black and white people in britain? Honest question cause i have no idea. If its something like 12/1 white/black, there's your answer.
  • Im in the camp of the race of the actor doesn't matter as much as the look of the actor. Ive mentioned this before but if Alex Rodriguez (former New York Yankee) was british he looks more like James Bond than many of the actors who get mentioned on here. The Rock played a real life football coach who was white and the race was never an issue because he fit the part so well. At the end of the day it is acting. You are acting a part so the race of the actor doesn't matter as long as the can act the role of the character.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    00Agent wrote: »
    What pisses me off slight is that Eon have long opened the doors for diversity casting and they DO give black actors great Jobs, but they don't even get public credit for that. Naomi, Jeffrey, both play roles that were traditionally white, but they made it work. I would be open to a black M as well, because that has worked in the Dynamite comics series.

    BUT James Bond is all around the world known as the quintessential British upper class snob.
    Put an indian, asian or black on that Poster and Bond will loose something in the process. Until it all falls apart.
    NicNac wrote: »
    00Agent wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    @00Agent I made this point more or less to @dublonothing on Twitter yesterday, that the lack of suitable black British actors was more than likely the reason a white actor will continue as Bond for the foreseeable future.
    Statistically, Bond will remain a white man simply because of the lack of competition.

    It shows you how tough it is for black talent to make a mark in that industry.

    But it's not like we are not letting Black actors into the Bond films. There are tons of job opportunities. It's doesn't always have to be James Bond himself. I would like to win the lottery too, but thats not gonna happen so i keep working the job i can get. Thats life.

    Idris is almost as big as Bond now, Naomi Harris is a Superstar thanks to Bond. Felix is a big role, but he's not from the UK. Colin Salmon had a great run on Bond. I don't know what people are complaining about. I would say there are more famous black british actors out there then ever before. Marvel, Star wars, etc

    I thought that as well when I was writing that last post. There is black talent out there (when you consider how many famous British black actors there were in the 70s, 80s and 90s!) and they do pick up good roles in big franchises. But the reality is, for every Chiwetel Ejiofor there are a dozen Tom Hardys.

    Whats the ratio of black and white people in britain? Honest question cause i have no idea. If its something like 12/1 white/black, there's your answer.

    86% white.
    IN fact the black population in Britian is lower than the Asian population.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,333
    Univex wrote: »
    @Pierce2Daniel, I like you man, you're a great internet researcher and a valuable member. That being said, and for the last couple of years, I find myself in disagreement with practically all of your opinions, being it a Nomi 007 spinoff, a black Bond, or whatever. Sometimes, it really sounds as gaslighting and reason arsoning, but I know it isn't and I know you're very adamant on supporting your views. But they mostly aren't what this character is about. I'm sorry, but they just aren't. That being said, do carry on. Who am I to stop your ramblings. @M_Balje, for example, posts things that make a helluva more sense. But hey, in the end, we're all fan, right? ;)
    I'm in total agreement with you @Univex. I too like @Pierce2Daniel and I think some of his insights have been invaluable over the past couple of years. However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with his points of view. In regards to casting a black actor as James Bond, namely Idris Elba, it appears @Pierce2Daniel's determined to see Bond undergo a complete biological taxon and become something that he was never conceived or envisaged to be—I'm guessing just so that he can finally fulfil one of his own lifetime dreams and see a black man play James Bond. I'm sure that there's plenty of Asians, Latinos, Polynesians and many other native Europeans, for that matter, that would also like to see their own fellow countrymen represented as the new James Bond on the big screen. It's just they don't come on these threads to keep beating the same drum over and over again about it. Most except the fact that James Bond was written as a Caucasian and has been continually played by one for the past 57 years without feeling the need to demand total representation for their own race or nationality.

    There is no real comparison to make here as James Bond is totally unique; but let's try to imagine for one minute that there was a hugely successful black iconic "fictional" character (no, not John Shaft) that had been conceived as a black man, but was also written by a black man; and that had also been played by many different African Americans throughout the past half-century and that I—as a white man—decided to keep posting comments on a forum dedicated to this popular, black fictional character asking that his ethnicity be changed to a white guy. It doesn't take a particularly vivid imagination to picture just what kind of a response I'd get, now does it? Not only would my affection for that character be called into question, but so would my own agenda, plus I'm sure the responses wouldn't at all be kind. Not wanting to be rude, but do you actually like a white guy playing James Bond @Pierce2Daniel, or is it something that you merely tolerate for the sake of the action, fast cars and eye-candy?
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,185
    I used to think Pierce2Daniel was an all out Troll. But somewhere down the line i realized he really means what he says, strangely enough.
    What we do have in common is that we like a more artistic approach to the films and we like to think outside the Box sometimes, and we have both discussed the deeper themes of Skyfall for example, at lengths.

    But what i feel P2D is often missing is, that Bond is as much about change as he's about Tradition.

    If anything is fair game to be changed and nothing is sacred then this franchise basically has not core identity and values.
    What these values are is a topic of discussion all on itself and I don't wanna get into that here. But what i'm saying is James Bond can not just be "Anything".

  • Posts: 6,709
    bondsum wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    @Pierce2Daniel, I like you man, you're a great internet researcher and a valuable member. That being said, and for the last couple of years, I find myself in disagreement with practically all of your opinions, being it a Nomi 007 spinoff, a black Bond, or whatever. Sometimes, it really sounds as gaslighting and reason arsoning, but I know it isn't and I know you're very adamant on supporting your views. But they mostly aren't what this character is about. I'm sorry, but they just aren't. That being said, do carry on. Who am I to stop your ramblings. @M_Balje, for example, posts things that make a helluva more sense. But hey, in the end, we're all fan, right? ;)
    I'm in total agreement with you @Univex. I too like @Pierce2Daniel and I think some of his insights have been invaluable over the past couple of years. However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with his points of view. In regards to casting a black actor as James Bond, namely Idris Elba, it appears @Pierce2Daniel's determined to see Bond undergo a complete biological taxon and become something that he was never conceived or envisaged to be—I'm guessing just so that he can finally fulfil one of his own lifetime dreams and see a black man play James Bond. I'm sure that there's plenty of Asians, Latinos, Polynesians and many other native Europeans, for that matter, that would also like to see their own fellow countrymen represented as the new James Bond on the big screen. It's just they don't come on these threads to keep beating the same drum over and over again about it. Most except the fact that James Bond was written as a Caucasian and has been continually played by one for the past 57 years without feeling the need to demand total representation for their own race or nationality.

    There is no real comparison to make here as James Bond is totally unique; but let's try to imagine for one minute that there was a hugely successful black iconic "fictional" character (no, not John Shaft) that had been conceived as a black man, but was also written by a black man; and that had also been played by many different African Americans throughout the past half-century and that I—as a white man—decided to keep posting comments on a forum dedicated to this popular, black fictional character asking that his ethnicity be changed to a white guy. It doesn't take a particularly vivid imagination to picture just what kind of a response I'd get, now does it? Not only would my affection for that character be called into question, but so would my own agenda, plus I'm sure the responses wouldn't at all be kind. Not wanting to be rude, but do you actually like a white guy playing James Bond @Pierce2Daniel, or is it something that you merely tolerate for the sake of the action, fast cars and eye-candy?

    Lucidity! Thank you, @bondsum
  • Were I a betting man, I'd wager on B26 premiering in... 2025.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    I'm glad to read there is more common sense on the mi6community forum than the contrary. Cheers to you gents.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 12,837
    It's quite simple to me, people who rationalise Bond should/could become black (or any other color/race) aren't true fans. You understand nothing about the character of Fleming and the vast collection of what he has written, let alone the lore of Bond. You can write 5 pages about why he could or should be black, yet it's all nonsense, so spare yourself the trouble. Bond is and will always be a caucasian male of Scottish/ Swiss descent and the day that changes he no longer is Bond. That day he has become a figment of the imagination of some producer, for the sake of political pandering. That day I will depart the character who once was James Bond but is no longer and will embrace the old days even more.

    Hahaha yeah I've read all the books, seen all the films, played most of the video games and have been a fan since I was five and saw TLD at the cinema. But I'm not a "true fan" because I don't see his skin colour as the be all and end all. Unbelieveable.

    Bond has been going for nearly 60 years and has probably had more very different takes than most big franchises. If you're a traditionalist and don't like straying too far from the books then good for you. But that doesn't make you more of a "true fan" than anyone else. There are loads of different sorts of Bond fans who've been introduced to it through different mediums and actors, so a lot of those fans are bound to have different priorities in terms of casting and different preferences in terms of how the character should be played. One fan trying to claim superiority over another because of his personal taste is stupid.

    This is exactly what I was on about when I said I might have to take a break from this site if/when it happens. It's just going to get toxic imo. There's no nuance, can't agree to disagree. It's either "if you don't want a black Bond you're a racist" or "if you're at all open to the idea you're just a woke fake fan not a true fan like me". It's all a load of bollocks.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    It's quite simple to me, people who rationalise Bond should/could become black (or any other color/race) aren't true fans. You understand nothing about the character of Fleming and the vast collection of what he has written, let alone the lore of Bond. You can write 5 pages about why he could or should be black, yet it's all nonsense, so spare yourself the trouble. Bond is and will always be a caucasian male of Scottish/ Swiss descent and the day that changes he no longer is Bond. That day he has become a figment of the imagination of some producer, for the sake of political pandering. That day I will depart the character who once was James Bond but is no longer and will embrace the old days even more.

    Hahaha yeah I've read all the books, seen all the films, played most of the video games and have been a fan since I was five and saw TLD at the cinema. But I'm not a "true fan" because I don't see his skin colour as the be all and end all. Unbelieveable.

    You're skewing my words. Don't act like a victim. Very 2019. Get with the times.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 12,837
    It's quite simple to me, people who rationalise Bond should/could become black (or any other color/race) aren't true fans. You understand nothing about the character of Fleming and the vast collection of what he has written, let alone the lore of Bond. You can write 5 pages about why he could or should be black, yet it's all nonsense, so spare yourself the trouble. Bond is and will always be a caucasian male of Scottish/ Swiss descent and the day that changes he no longer is Bond. That day he has become a figment of the imagination of some producer, for the sake of political pandering. That day I will depart the character who once was James Bond but is no longer and will embrace the old days even more.

    Hahaha yeah I've read all the books, seen all the films, played most of the video games and have been a fan since I was five and saw TLD at the cinema. But I'm not a "true fan" because I don't see his skin colour as the be all and end all. Unbelieveable.

    You're skewing my words. Don't act like a victim. Very 2019. Get with the times.

    I'm quoting your words exactly. You said anyone who rationalises a black Bond isn't a true fan. I've always said I wouldn't mind it for various reasons. Therefore according to you I'm not a true fan. And I'm not having that, that's bollocks.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,318
    It's quite simple to me, people who rationalise Bond should/could become black (or any other color/race) aren't true fans. You understand nothing about the character of Fleming and the vast collection of what he has written, let alone the lore of Bond. You can write 5 pages about why he could or should be black, yet it's all nonsense, so spare yourself the trouble. Bond is and will always be a caucasian male of Scottish/ Swiss descent and the day that changes he no longer is Bond. That day he has become a figment of the imagination of some producer, for the sake of political pandering. That day I will depart the character who once was James Bond but is no longer and will embrace the old days even more.

    Hahaha yeah I've read all the books, seen all the films, played most of the video games and have been a fan since I was five and saw TLD at the cinema. But I'm not a "true fan" because I don't see his skin colour as the be all and end all. Unbelieveable.

    You're skewing my words. Don't act like a victim. Very 2019. Get with the times.

    I'm quoting your words exactly. You said anyone who rationalises a black Bond isn't a true fan. I've always said I wouldn't mind it for various reasons. Therefore according to you I'm not a true fan. And I'm not having that, that's bollocks.

    In your first reply you failed to state "Anyone who rationalises a black Bond...". Instead you, in your opinion, list a bunch of things which make you a true fan. Indeed, in my opinion you aren't a true fan if you are able to or willing to change the literary DNA/ core of James Bond, to such a degree that it's no longer the character, created by Fleming. To me and many others, let alone Fleming, that's sacrilege. Honestly I really do not care if you're offended or throwing tantrums about it, as it's my opinion. The world keeps spinning, the sun will rise tomorrow, it's not the end of the world. People have different opinions, deal with it.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    royale65 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.

    Well said, I agree.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    royale65 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.

    Interesting, two 'royales' and one complimenting the other. Ha. Not insinuating anything, but it's...interesting.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    Nearly every thread on this forum quickly descends into tiresome arguments when all someone does is post a different opinion. So often I click on a post to see what fellow fans have said only to be greeted with said fans tearing strips off each other. Honestly, disagreeing with someone does not need to descend into a row! A debate, even a strong one is great but not the sarcasm, the nitpicking, he said she said.
    In the words of Silva "so tiring"
    In the words of Natalya '"boys with toys"
    In my words "please stop the fucking bickering"
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 4,423
    royale65 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.

    Interesting, two 'royales' and one complimenting the other. Ha. Not insinuating anything, but it's...interesting.

    Yeah, you got us.. I mean me. I'm both royale65 and thelivingroyale. Plus I'm also, @royaleMcDonalds, @royalethegreatandpowerfulliving and @royale69lol.

    Oh, and @Thunderfinger, naturally.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    I think we are thinking way ahead of ourselves and misinterpreting Barbara's words. She might have only said that to just avoid any sort of controversy. Imagine if she would have said - "bond won't be played by black actor ever". It's smart to avoid that and state something like that.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,203
    I think we are thinking way ahead of ourselves and misinterpreting Barbara's words. She might have only said that to just avoid any sort of controversy. Imagine if she would have said - "bond won't be played by black actor ever". It's smart to avoid that and state something like that.

    Yes!

  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,318
    royale65 wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.

    Interesting, two 'royales' and one complimenting the other. Ha. Not insinuating anything, but it's...interesting.

    Yeah, you got us.. I mean me. I'm both royale65 and thelivingroyale. Plus I'm also, @royaleMcDonalds, @royalethegreatandpowerfulliving and @royale69lol.

    Oh, and @Thunderfinger, naturally.

    Good. You're on my ignore list, as well as thelivingroyale. No point in continuing.

    @Resurrection I find it dangerous to interprate her words as entirely different, as it's conjecture. We know what she has said, so it could be her opinion, also because she liked the thought of Elba as Bond.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited January 2020 Posts: 2,541
    royale65 wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.

    Interesting, two 'royales' and one complimenting the other. Ha. Not insinuating anything, but it's...interesting.

    Yeah, you got us.. I mean me. I'm both royale65 and thelivingroyale. Plus I'm also, @royaleMcDonalds, @royalethegreatandpowerfulliving and @royale69lol.

    Oh, and @Thunderfinger, naturally.

    Good. You're on my ignore list. Enough.

    @Resurrection I find it dangerous to interprate her words as entirely different, as it's conjecture. We know what she has said, so it could be her opinion, also because she liked the thought of Elba as Bond.

    9ce5d1bc-2d42-4817-b71a-a039703327d9_text.gif

    Too soon to judge. If she stand by her words what she said when next bond is announced, i will be the first one to call out @JeremyBondon
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,318
    royale65 wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.

    Interesting, two 'royales' and one complimenting the other. Ha. Not insinuating anything, but it's...interesting.

    Yeah, you got us.. I mean me. I'm both royale65 and thelivingroyale. Plus I'm also, @royaleMcDonalds, @royalethegreatandpowerfulliving and @royale69lol.

    Oh, and @Thunderfinger, naturally.

    Good. You're on my ignore list. Enough.

    @Resurrection I find it dangerous to interprate her words as entirely different, as it's conjecture. We know what she has said, so it could be her opinion, also because she liked the thought of Elba as Bond.

    9ce5d1bc-2d42-4817-b71a-a039703327d9_text.gif

    Too soon to judge. If she stand by her words what she said when next bond is announced, i will be the first one to call out @JeremyBondon

    “You think of him as being from Britain or the Commonwealth, but Britain is a very diverse place,” Wilson says.

    "There are certain things the duo appears open to considering, and other conversations that are nonstarters, when it comes to selecting the next Bond. “He can be of any color, but he is male,” says Broccoli"

    It's the combination of their replies which make me think they are serious about and open to the idea of changing Bond's character. We'll have to wait and see.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited January 2020 Posts: 2,541
    royale65 wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.

    Interesting, two 'royales' and one complimenting the other. Ha. Not insinuating anything, but it's...interesting.

    Yeah, you got us.. I mean me. I'm both royale65 and thelivingroyale. Plus I'm also, @royaleMcDonalds, @royalethegreatandpowerfulliving and @royale69lol.

    Oh, and @Thunderfinger, naturally.

    Good. You're on my ignore list. Enough.

    @Resurrection I find it dangerous to interprate her words as entirely different, as it's conjecture. We know what she has said, so it could be her opinion, also because she liked the thought of Elba as Bond.

    9ce5d1bc-2d42-4817-b71a-a039703327d9_text.gif

    Too soon to judge. If she stand by her words what she said when next bond is announced, i will be the first one to call out @JeremyBondon

    “You think of him as being from Britain or the Commonwealth, but Britain is a very diverse place,” Wilson says.

    "There are certain things the duo appears open to considering, and other conversations that are nonstarters, when it comes to selecting the next Bond. “He can be of any color, but he is male,” says Broccoli"

    It's the combination of their replies which make me think they are serious about and open to the idea of changing Bond's character. We'll have to wait and see.

    This is Wilson's last film as a producer, isn't it? So I doubt he will be around after this much.
    As I said these statements doesn't happen just like that. They must have plan to say those. As you know most bond girls repeat the same thing all over again everytime, "our character is not like the past, they are more stronger female characters".....
    If they can say it why B.B & M.W won't, just to avoid these argument.
    We should wait for any rumours for next bond casting first. Even i am not liking this female 007 but i will make my judgement after seeing the film ;)
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    royale65 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.

    Interesting, two 'royales' and one complimenting the other. Ha. Not insinuating anything, but it's...interesting.

    Glad you’re not insinuating anything. They are quite different, long standing and respected members. If they weren’t we would have acted long ago. Some things we don’t tolerate.
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