Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,318
    NicNac wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale

    You're one of the most thoughtful and articulate posters on here. A true Bond fan through and through. I always look forward to your input.

    That's the society we live in nowadays. Either you're for a certain thing or you're not. A binary society. No nuance and discussion anymore. Which is quite the pity.

    Interesting, two 'royales' and one complimenting the other. Ha. Not insinuating anything, but it's...interesting.

    Glad you’re not insinuating anything. They are quite different, long standing and respected members. If they weren’t we would have acted long ago. Some things we don’t tolerate.

    Good to hear @NicNac A mere coincidence sometimes seems more than it truly is. One must be cautious on the world wide web. Cheers to you, respected moderator, at least by me!
  • Felix is played by a black guy, Moneypenny is played by a black woman, the new double-o agent is black, and probably Q will be in the next series. When will it end!

    I think Bond 7 will be an interesting choice, one they must get right.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Reading between the lines of BB & MGW's interview I would say that we are looking at a possible 5 -6 years before the next film.

    By that rationale you can pretty much rule out all the pretenders to the throne bandied around on here.

    Some here don't want to hear it and will protest and demand that BB sells up to Warner so Nolan can take over but I can't think of a better place for Bond to be and that is with EON.

    I don't want conveyor belt entries like some might, Bond films are a rarity in that they are an event. Marvel can't boast that its just the next film down the pipe, regardless of how epic and how many super heroes appear in it.

    Star Wars has just turned into another property for Disney to wring out as much as they can.

    Bond may well diversify out one day, BB doesn't rule it out but having a new film every 3 to four years means these films seem special and like I said an event not just another one after the other.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 17,753
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Reading between the lines of BB & MGW's interview I would say that we are looking at a possible 5 -6 years before the next film.

    It certainly doesn't look like they're in a rush, an maybe we're in for an even longer wait as well. I'd rather they take their time finding the right candidate though, so I'm not concerned about the potential gap.
  • A good Bond needs to have some "embarrassment" on the board before they can take on the role. Pierce was in Mrs Doubtfire drive by fruiting, a judge on Miss Universe, hosted the behind the scenes for Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, made TV movies, etc. He was at rock bottom, which gave him the humility to take on Bond.

    Dalton was in Brenda Starr, Moore had a failed film career, Connery was in Darby O'Gill and On The Fiddle playing a mentally challenged gypsy. Lazenby we all know what happened there.

    That is why I endorse Henry Cabell as Bond.

    Especially after The Witcher, which he looks ridiculous in in a wig, the man has debased and humiliated himself for years now. Flop after flop. The Superman CGI moustache fiasco. He is perfectly placed professionally the play Bond.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    QxT2.gif
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    A good Bond needs to have some "embarrassment" on the board before they can take on the role. Pierce was in Mrs Doubtfire drive by fruiting, a judge on Miss Universe, hosted the behind the scenes for Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, made TV movies, etc. He was at rock bottom, which gave him the humility to take on Bond.

    Dalton was in Brenda Starr, Moore had a failed film career, Connery was in Darby O'Gill and On The Fiddle playing a mentally challenged gypsy. Lazenby we all know what happened there.

    That is why I endorse Henry Cabell as Bond.

    Especially after The Witcher, which he looks ridiculous in in a wig, the man has debased and humiliated himself for years now. Flop after flop. The Superman CGI moustache fiasco. He is perfectly placed professionally the play Bond.

    Henry Cabell?

    Now there is a new one to add to the pile.
  • Posts: 16,153
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Reading between the lines of BB & MGW's interview I would say that we are looking at a possible 5 -6 years before the next film.

    I've been feeling it will be a decade or more. Then B26 will be a one-off and 10-15 years later we get another film with a new Bond again.
    The days of a complete Bond era featuring a current actor for multiple films ends with NTTD.

    Damn that would be horrible. Sometimes though, these long gaps lead to me believe that's where the franchise will end up.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,132
    One wonders @JeremyBondon with your comments of people not being a ‘true Bond fan’ what you’re hoping to achieve?
    Yes, that is your opinion, however such comments are only ever going to have a negative effect.
    In future it would be smarter to choice your words more carefully.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,131
    WhyBond wrote: »
    The Poldark guy, Aidan Turner is probably the best fit.
    As for a black Bond, the guy, David Washington starring in Nolan's Tenet "has it". Issue is he is American.

    Agree, Turner should be screen tested.

    Any American nomination should be automatically filed in the bin.
    Univex wrote: »
    If pollitical correctness hasn't gone mad, then why is it ok to call black people black, when they aren't actually black? Unless there is someone out there, who is genuinely noir.

    Anyway, i'd like to continue my support for Scott Adkins. When I think of Bonds image, lately I have been think not of the Hoagy Carchmichael comparrison, but of Vivienne's reaction in TSWLM. With that in mind, I think Adkins fits that more than any other candidate right now.

    There is also that guy in the gambling advert, he needs a hair cut and shave, but he has a strong, tough look to his face, one might even say a little weathered. I can't imagine another unknown being cast though.

    Why is it okay to call 'white people' white? I'm not white, certainly not printer paper white. Those are just generalized terms, nothing more.
    @Pierce2Daniel Your definition of Bond is different from mine and many others. That's okay. You more or less support an entity that isn't really Bond, your version of him more like. Which is also okay.

    Quite right, @JeremyBondon.

    Nonetheless, it is the version of a fan, not the original as thought up by its creator. A reader has his interpretation of a character and that's just fine, even of the narrative itself, but the real deal is the author's perspective on it.

    I still say, want to have a go at a character? Then by all means, create your own. Do your own intelectual work, write it up, publish it, and then come to me and I'll tear it apart in favour of my own interpretation. Then you can tell me how it feels.

    This is a disservice to a dead man who gave us our fandom. Don't they dare call it Ian Fleming's James Bond if he just isn't. By all means, call it EON's James Bond. @Pierce2Daniel's James Bond. But it's not Ian Fleming's. They've been shedding its layers too much. He can't smoke, he can't flirt, he can't be caucasian, he can't be this and that. At the end of the day, it won't be James Bond.

    It's ok to have opinions, interpretations, different views, but please do not disrespect intelectual property. That is as bad as anything else.

    I'm as much of an anti-racist as I am an anti-intelectual property dismemberment. There, rant over.

    @Pierce2Daniel, I like you man, you're a great internet researcher and a valuable member. That being said, and for the last couple of years, I find myself in disagreement with practically all of your opinions, being it a Nomi 007 spinoff, a black Bond, or whatever. Sometimes, it really sounds as gaslighting and reason arsoning, but I know it isn't and I know you're very adamant on supporting your views. But they mostly aren't what this character is about. I'm sorry, but they just aren't. That being said, do carry on. Who am I to stop your ramblings. @M_Balje, for example, posts things that make a helluva more sense. But hey, in the end, we're all fan, right? ;)

    Good post. +1.
    I’d bet that most of the ‘fans’ who want a diverse or PC take on Bond are American’s with the ‘woke’ obsession. At the end of the day, as a Brit he’s our character and we want him to stay the way Fleming created him IMO.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    Benny wrote: »
    One wonders @JeremyBondon with your comments of people not being a ‘true Bond fan’ what you’re hoping to achieve?
    Yes, that is your opinion, however such comments are only ever going to have a negative effect.
    In future it would be smarter to choice your words more carefully.

    Not here to achieve anything. BB and MW claim to be conservators of Bond and yet it doesn't seem like it. This worries me extremely. Surely that mustn't be strange. Therefore I voice my unadulterated opinion about those who in the wake of woke support treason to the character of Bond. I honestly do not, I repeat do not for the life of me understand people, who claim to be real Bond fans, and want to change Bond into something he logically seen could never be. In this day and age of political pandering it seems the Hollywood thing to do and yet the vast majority doesn't want it. There are some members on here who seem to be lobbying time and time again for this 'miraculous profound change', and yet the majority of the members do not want it. At some point people like myself will bite back, one time, and will leave it at that. I have chosen my words as I see fit, didn't break rules and as I said will leave it at that.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    A good Bond needs to have some "embarrassment" on the board before they can take on the role. Pierce was in Mrs Doubtfire drive by fruiting, a judge on Miss Universe, hosted the behind the scenes for Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, made TV movies, etc. He was at rock bottom, which gave him the humility to take on Bond.

    Dalton was in Brenda Starr, Moore had a failed film career, Connery was in Darby O'Gill and On The Fiddle playing a mentally challenged gypsy. Lazenby we all know what happened there.

    That is why I endorse Henry Cabell as Bond.

    Especially after The Witcher, which he looks ridiculous in in a wig, the man has debased and humiliated himself for years now. Flop after flop. The Superman CGI moustache fiasco. He is perfectly placed professionally the play Bond.

    I actually searched Henry Cabell on Google, what the hell. For a second I thought who's that? =))

    William Henry Cabell came on the first page :))

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3Y2j9_r9DY5Lz8qYwiVK_NELaFgiIYEfYWTeHKkMjqtELPz-py6piU8vp&s=10
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Michael Fassbender, IMO.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    A good Bond needs to have some "embarrassment" on the board before they can take on the role. Pierce was in Mrs Doubtfire drive by fruiting, a judge on Miss Universe, hosted the behind the scenes for Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, made TV movies, etc. He was at rock bottom, which gave him the humility to take on Bond.

    Dalton was in Brenda Starr, Moore had a failed film career, Connery was in Darby O'Gill and On The Fiddle playing a mentally challenged gypsy. Lazenby we all know what happened there.

    That is why I endorse Henry Cabell as Bond.

    Especially after The Witcher, which he looks ridiculous in in a wig, the man has debased and humiliated himself for years now. Flop after flop. The Superman CGI moustache fiasco. He is perfectly placed professionally the play Bond.

    I actually searched Henry Cabell on Google, what the hell. For a second I thought who's that? =))

    William Henry Cabell came on the first page :))

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3Y2j9_r9DY5Lz8qYwiVK_NELaFgiIYEfYWTeHKkMjqtELPz-py6piU8vp&s=10

    He's American. Well, was... 150 years ago. And he looks too soft. So, no.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    edited January 2020 Posts: 1,318
    How about Henry Cowbell?
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  • Posts: 6,709
    How about Henry Cowbell?
    giphy.gif

    giphy.gif
  • I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.

  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.

    I think you would find the opposite to be true. You're in a minority @Pierce2Daniel Perhaps there should be a poll to see what the consensus is.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited January 2020 Posts: 5,185
    It wouldn't work. It would simply not work. For the same reason that Black Panther totally works as a predominantly Black Franchise, Bond would NOT work with a black lead. James Bond would overnight become a 'black franchise' (like Blade, BP, Shaft, etc.) break continuity with it's 60 year legacy, confuse the hell out of everybody who does not participate in stupid PC debates online, and then quietly disappear into the Bluray bargains bins of the World never to be heard or seen again.

    Moneypenny and Felix are SUPPORTING characters. Bond is the Brand, the glue that keeps it all together. Barbara and Michael know this. These guys are marketers.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,327
    I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.

    Bond as a character WOULD change if you changed his race, that's if we are talking about the character that Fleming originally wrote.

    If we are talking about being a generic screen action hero called Bond who works for MI6, and has a similar personality and traits that to the character that Fleming wrote, then you are absolutely right. The character wouldn't change if his race was changed.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 6,709
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.


    Thanks for the vid, @suavejmf!

    And...all my black friends think the same. I've got an Angolan friend that is a massive James bond fan and he says the exact same thing. I've got a 48yo friend from Mumbai who is fanatical about the novels and the films and he says that changing Bond's race is stupid. My wife, who is sort of an activist for human rights, often says that decharacterisation of intelectual property for the sake of diversity and/or gender quotas is as stupid as it gets and a symptom of an unintelligent society who has lost a grip on creativity. Just create new and interesting stuff based on current times. Don't go changing historical characters and fictional characters just for the sake of proving a current point. Do it now. Create something in the now. Something fresh and to the point. Don't hijack the past, learn from it sure, but don't hijack things that always worked and that are dear to thousands of people.
  • edited January 2020 Posts: 3,327
    Univex wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.


    Thanks for the vid, @suavejmf!

    And...all my black friends think the same. I've got an Angolan friend that is a massive James bond fan and he says the exact same thing. I've got a 48yo friend from Mumbai who is fanatical about the novels and the films and he says that changing Bond's race is stupid. My wife, who is sort of an activist for human rights, often says that decharacterisation of intelectual property for the sake of diversity and/or gender quotas is as stupid as it gets and a symptom of an unintelligent society who has lost a grip on creativity. Just create new and interesting stuff based on current times. Don't go changing historical characters and fictional characters just for the sake of proving a current point. Do it now. Create something in the now. Something fresh and to the point. Don't hijack the past, learn from it sure, but don't hijack things that always worked and that are dear to thousands of people.

    Well said!

    I still don't know what people have got against trying to find an actor that closely resembles the character that Fleming wrote? Is having a dark haired white actor that difficult to comprehend playing the part of Bond?

    If people find it that offensive for a white actor to play the part of Bond, then I don't believe they are true Bond fans.

    Did Fleming get it so wrong in his description of Bond that it needs radically changing drastically?
  • Univex wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.


    Thanks for the vid, @suavejmf!

    And...all my black friends think the same. I've got an Angolan friend that is a massive James bond fan and he says the exact same thing. I've got a 48yo friend from Mumbai who is fanatical about the novels and the films and he says that changing Bond's race is stupid. My wife, who is sort of an activist for human rights, often says that decharacterisation of intelectual property for the sake of diversity and/or gender quotas is as stupid as it gets and a symptom of an unintelligent society who has lost a grip on creativity. Just create new and interesting stuff based on current times. Don't go changing historical characters and fictional characters just for the sake of proving a current point. Do it now. Create something in the now. Something fresh and to the point. Don't hijack the past, learn from it sure, but don't hijack things that always worked and that are dear to thousands of people.

    Well said!

    I still don't know what people have got against trying to find an actor that closely resembles the character that Fleming wrote? Is having a dark haired white actor that difficult to comprehend playing the part of Bond?

    If people find it that offensive for a white actor to play the part of Bond, then I don't believe they are true Bond fans.

    Did Fleming get it so wrong in his description of Bond that it needs radically changing drastically?

    Imagine the reaction if a remake of Shaft was made with a white male lead.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Univex wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.


    Thanks for the vid, @suavejmf!

    And...all my black friends think the same. I've got an Angolan friend that is a massive James bond fan and he says the exact same thing. I've got a 48yo friend from Mumbai who is fanatical about the novels and the films and he says that changing Bond's race is stupid. My wife, who is sort of an activist for human rights, often says that decharacterisation of intelectual property for the sake of diversity and/or gender quotas is as stupid as it gets and a symptom of an unintelligent society who has lost a grip on creativity. Just create new and interesting stuff based on current times. Don't go changing historical characters and fictional characters just for the sake of proving a current point. Do it now. Create something in the now. Something fresh and to the point. Don't hijack the past, learn from it sure, but don't hijack things that always worked and that are dear to thousands of people.

    Well said!

    I still don't know what people have got against trying to find an actor that closely resembles the character that Fleming wrote? Is having a dark haired white actor that difficult to comprehend playing the part of Bond?

    If people find it that offensive for a white actor to play the part of Bond, then I don't believe they are true Bond fans.

    Did Fleming get it so wrong in his description of Bond that it needs radically changing drastically?

    Exactly. And it seems as though you can't say someone isn't a true Bond fan here. It seems that is taboo. If some member comes along saying Bond is just a superspy that runs around in a tuxedo and shoots missiles from his wristwatch, we can't comment negatively on it, and we can't tell him he doesn't understand Bond or that he isn't a true fan.Apparently civility in forums is nodding in agreement to all opinions.

    No, a so called fan who says Bond should be black is not a true Bond fan. A so called fan who says the cinematic Bond owes nothing to Fleming is not a true Bond fan. A so called fan who thinks Bond is just a suave superspy with gadgets and cars is not a true Bond fan. Why? Because he bloody well doesn't understand the character, its literary background, its decades long adaptation to screen and times, and the significance of an old world agent, a relic of the cold war, still relevant today, but not a product of today.

    Bond should be a 50s spy living in the XXI century, because he's old school, he's a relic. Actually even in the 50s he was already living in the past, with a 30s car and many filthy old habits. The times change around him, he doesn't.

    Facially, Bond resembles the composer, singer and actor Hoagy Carmichael. In Casino Royale, Vesper Lynd remarks, "Bond reminds me rather of Hoagy Carmichael, but there is something cold and ruthless." Likewise, in Moonraker, Special Branch Officer Gala Brand thinks that Bond is "certainly good-looking ... Rather like Hoagy Carmichael in a way. That black hair falling down over the right eyebrow. Much the same bones. But there was something a bit cruel in the mouth, and the eyes were cold."

    In the novels (notably From Russia, with Love), Bond's physical description has always been consistent: slim build; a three-inch long, thin vertical scar on his right cheek; blue-grey eyes; a "cruel" mouth; short, black hair, a comma of which rests on his forehead. Physically he is described as being 6 feet in height and 168 lb in weight. After Casino Royale, Bond also had a faint scar of the Russian cyrillic letter "Ш" (SH) (for Shpion: "Spy") on the back of one of his hands, carved by a SMERSH agent.

    This IS James Bond. Just find someone who looks the part and can act. How difficult can that be?
  • Posts: 3,327
    Univex wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.


    Thanks for the vid, @suavejmf!

    And...all my black friends think the same. I've got an Angolan friend that is a massive James bond fan and he says the exact same thing. I've got a 48yo friend from Mumbai who is fanatical about the novels and the films and he says that changing Bond's race is stupid. My wife, who is sort of an activist for human rights, often says that decharacterisation of intelectual property for the sake of diversity and/or gender quotas is as stupid as it gets and a symptom of an unintelligent society who has lost a grip on creativity. Just create new and interesting stuff based on current times. Don't go changing historical characters and fictional characters just for the sake of proving a current point. Do it now. Create something in the now. Something fresh and to the point. Don't hijack the past, learn from it sure, but don't hijack things that always worked and that are dear to thousands of people.

    Well said!

    I still don't know what people have got against trying to find an actor that closely resembles the character that Fleming wrote? Is having a dark haired white actor that difficult to comprehend playing the part of Bond?

    If people find it that offensive for a white actor to play the part of Bond, then I don't believe they are true Bond fans.

    Did Fleming get it so wrong in his description of Bond that it needs radically changing drastically?

    Exactly. And it seems as though you can't say someone isn't a true Bond fan here. It seems that is taboo. If some member comes along saying Bond is just a superspy that runs around in a tuxedo and shoots missiles from his wristwatch, we can't comment negatively on it, and we can't tell him he doesn't understand Bond or that he isn't a true fan.Apparently civility in forums is nodding in agreement to all opinions.

    No, a so called fan who says Bond should be black is not a true Bond fan. A so called fan who says the cinematic Bond owes nothing to Fleming is not a true Bond fan. A so called fan who thinks Bond is just a suave superspy with gadgets and cars is not a true Bond fan. Why? Because he bloody well doesn't understand the character, its literary background, its decades long adaptation to screen and times, and the significance of an old world agent, a relic of the cold war, still relevant today, but not a product of today.

    Bond should be a 50s spy living in the XXI century, because he's old school, he's a relic. Actually even in the 50s he was already living in the past, with a 30s car and many filthy old habits. The times change around him, he doesn't.

    Facially, Bond resembles the composer, singer and actor Hoagy Carmichael. In Casino Royale, Vesper Lynd remarks, "Bond reminds me rather of Hoagy Carmichael, but there is something cold and ruthless." Likewise, in Moonraker, Special Branch Officer Gala Brand thinks that Bond is "certainly good-looking ... Rather like Hoagy Carmichael in a way. That black hair falling down over the right eyebrow. Much the same bones. But there was something a bit cruel in the mouth, and the eyes were cold."

    In the novels (notably From Russia, with Love), Bond's physical description has always been consistent: slim build; a three-inch long, thin vertical scar on his right cheek; blue-grey eyes; a "cruel" mouth; short, black hair, a comma of which rests on his forehead. Physically he is described as being 6 feet in height and 168 lb in weight. After Casino Royale, Bond also had a faint scar of the Russian cyrillic letter "Ш" (SH) (for Shpion: "Spy") on the back of one of his hands, carved by a SMERSH agent.

    This IS James Bond. Just find someone who looks the part and can act. How difficult can that be?

    👏👏👍👍
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Ahhh not the talk of a black James Bond again :))
    I truly believe the producers were being diplomatic on this one. Could you imagine the uproar of saying, "James Bond will not be a woman and also the male actor that plays him will always be white" right before the new film is said to be released?
    Give them some credit, they're just playing the game
  • Jordo007 wrote: »
    Ahhh not the talk of a black James Bond again :))
    I truly believe the producers were being diplomatic on this one. Could you imagine the uproar of saying, "James Bond will not be a woman and also the male actor that plays him will always be white" right before the new film is said to be released?
    Give them some credit, they're just playing the game

    This. They've got a new film coming out in just less than 3 months, why would you create bad publicity by inflaming snowflakes?
  • Posts: 3,327

    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Ahhh not the talk of a black James Bond again :))
    I truly believe the producers were being diplomatic on this one. Could you imagine the uproar of saying, "James Bond will not be a woman and also the male actor that plays him will always be white" right before the new film is said to be released?
    Give them some credit, they're just playing the game

    Yes, spot on!
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    Univex wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I take @00Agent comments on board, tradition is key to the Bond franchise. The vital elements have to be there – you need Bond, the villain, the girls, the car, the action, the locations – but it doesn’t stop you changing and evolving those elements.

    Bond as a character wouldn’t fundamental change if you changed his race. The character of Bond – a suave, cool, enigmatic, sophisticated, dangerous, charming killer with a taste for the finer things – doesn’t change if you make him black.

    The best examples I can pose are the castings of Naomie Harris and Jeffrey Wright….both actors played roles previously played by white actors. The tradition associated with those characters didn’t change with those castings. They are still Leiter and Moneypenny.

    01%2BNaomie%2BHarris%2Bas%2BEve%2BMoneypenny.jpg
    06%2BJeffrey%2BWright%2Bas%2BFelix%2BLeiter.jpg

    The same would be the case with Bond.

    However, I really don’t think 2020 is the right time to announce a black Bond. Maybe back in 2005 they could have got away with it. But not today with the left and right so politicised. It isn’t the right time. Howver…………….I think generally speaking if Idris Elba got cast, no one would care. I think people almost are willing it to happen.


    Thanks for the vid, @suavejmf!

    And...all my black friends think the same. I've got an Angolan friend that is a massive James bond fan and he says the exact same thing. I've got a 48yo friend from Mumbai who is fanatical about the novels and the films and he says that changing Bond's race is stupid. My wife, who is sort of an activist for human rights, often says that decharacterisation of intelectual property for the sake of diversity and/or gender quotas is as stupid as it gets and a symptom of an unintelligent society who has lost a grip on creativity. Just create new and interesting stuff based on current times. Don't go changing historical characters and fictional characters just for the sake of proving a current point. Do it now. Create something in the now. Something fresh and to the point. Don't hijack the past, learn from it sure, but don't hijack things that always worked and that are dear to thousands of people.

    Well said!

    I still don't know what people have got against trying to find an actor that closely resembles the character that Fleming wrote? Is having a dark haired white actor that difficult to comprehend playing the part of Bond?

    If people find it that offensive for a white actor to play the part of Bond, then I don't believe they are true Bond fans.

    Did Fleming get it so wrong in his description of Bond that it needs radically changing drastically?

    Exactly. And it seems as though you can't say someone isn't a true Bond fan here. It seems that is taboo. If some member comes along saying Bond is just a superspy that runs around in a tuxedo and shoots missiles from his wristwatch, we can't comment negatively on it, and we can't tell him he doesn't understand Bond or that he isn't a true fan.Apparently civility in forums is nodding in agreement to all opinions.

    No, a so called fan who says Bond should be black is not a true Bond fan. A so called fan who says the cinematic Bond owes nothing to Fleming is not a true Bond fan. A so called fan who thinks Bond is just a suave superspy with gadgets and cars is not a true Bond fan. Why? Because he bloody well doesn't understand the character, its literary background, its decades long adaptation to screen and times, and the significance of an old world agent, a relic of the cold war, still relevant today, but not a product of today.

    Bond should be a 50s spy living in the XXI century, because he's old school, he's a relic. Actually even in the 50s he was already living in the past, with a 30s car and many filthy old habits. The times change around him, he doesn't.

    Facially, Bond resembles the composer, singer and actor Hoagy Carmichael. In Casino Royale, Vesper Lynd remarks, "Bond reminds me rather of Hoagy Carmichael, but there is something cold and ruthless." Likewise, in Moonraker, Special Branch Officer Gala Brand thinks that Bond is "certainly good-looking ... Rather like Hoagy Carmichael in a way. That black hair falling down over the right eyebrow. Much the same bones. But there was something a bit cruel in the mouth, and the eyes were cold."

    In the novels (notably From Russia, with Love), Bond's physical description has always been consistent: slim build; a three-inch long, thin vertical scar on his right cheek; blue-grey eyes; a "cruel" mouth; short, black hair, a comma of which rests on his forehead. Physically he is described as being 6 feet in height and 168 lb in weight. After Casino Royale, Bond also had a faint scar of the Russian cyrillic letter "Ш" (SH) (for Shpion: "Spy") on the back of one of his hands, carved by a SMERSH agent.

    This IS James Bond. Just find someone who looks the part and can act. How difficult can that be?

    Excellent post, dear @Univex
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