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You are one of the most valuable members in these forums, and yet you seem have no ideia of what James Bond is. Talk about a paradox. But hey, I've learn to have no problem with your askew vision of this literary/cinematic character. But it is strange. Well, for me anyways. Do carry on. I really don't care. In the past, I'd say you're gaslighting. But I know you're not. It's really the way you see James Bond. You want a black female 007 spinoff with Nomi, you want a black actor to play a white character, you want to break the system, bring some caos into it, as you have often put it. Ok then, it's your prerogative. But, man, is it odd. It's really, really odd. But hey, do carry on, even though you'll have many many detractors. But I think you thrive on that, so, please,...carry on.
My thoughts exactly. A very odd stance from a Bond fan. Quite normal for an average indifferent cinema go'er, but not for a Bond fan.
Don’t get me wrong, someone like Idris Elba has the talent, looks and charm to play the world’s most iconic spy. I can totally understand why so many people would love to see him or another black actor suited and booted, wooing the ladies and saving the world in style. But the fact he is a black man means he simply isn’t suited for this particular role. Period. No debate. No chance.
The character of James Bond was created back in 1953 by Ian Fleming with a very clear description and back story. Fleming described his character as a Scottish man in interviews and his parentage was made pretty clear in the 1964 book You Only Live Twice, where his mother was revealed to be Swiss and his father was Scottish: a Highlander from near Glencoe.
Fleming himself has Scottish roots and spent a lot of his childhood in Glencoe and we saw how important Bond’s history is in the latest films Skyfall and Spectre. Plus Fleming used many of his own interests to shape Bond. His love of scrambled eggs, golf and gambling all come from Fleming’s own tastes and Bond uses the same toiletries and cigarettes Fleming loved. Small details like this that helped to shape the spy we know today make it harder to understand how that can suddenly change in order to allow a black man to play the part. While a character like Doctor Who has the power to regenerate into a completely different person, Bond is meant to be a normal man. Yes, I know we’ve already let go of some of the realism attached to the story by having different actors portraying him over the years but changing his ethnicity won’t work without having to start tweaking important parts of the character and his story.
Should Disney’s next live action remake be a film where Snow White is actually brown? Would it work if we rebooted the Shaft franchise and made him white? A change like that would have to tell a very different story. Instead of having to make changes and tweak key aspects of Bond’s story and history in order to cast a black man in the role, studios should spend their money on creating a new franchise that will give Idris and other ethnic actors the chance to become their own character. A spy who has skills, charm and personality shaped by their upbringing as an ethnic person. Yaphet Kotto, who played the first black Bond villain Dr Kananga in 1973’s Live and Let Die, argued this case when he told Big Issue: ‘Bond cannot be black. James Bond was established by Ian Fleming as a white character, played by white actors. Play 003 or 006 but you cannot be 007.’
The point in the argument is that I really don't want a black actor to be Bond......not because they are black.....but because Bond isn’t, Bond is white. Period. No debate.
Very, very good post. Thank you.
Exactly.
Yes. A sensible and viable suggestion for a change!
Pleasure. I really hope Fleming prevails in the next casting call.
As a young Q? Surely not Bond?
I’ve been touting him for a while now; he definitely growing into his looks and should be on EON’s radar.
True, he was strongly considered for Batman and we have no idea of how he’s going to be used in MI.; he could be a villain or they could be setting him up to take the reigns once Cruise calls it a day. Obviously it’s not going to be Jeremy Renner.
I don't think BB is worried about upsetting the 'woke' brigade. She shut down their argument about a female Bond by confirming that will not happen on her watch.
It seems odd to specify that someone’s ‘fan’ status is in doubt because of an opinion.
Personally, I’m not really interested in being part of a monolithic thinktank engineered to doing and thinking the same thing. I have my own opinions.
Nor do I feel that Fleming’s text is sacred. Otherwise, the films would have stopped once they were adapted and they’d have had to be set in the 1950’s, etc. Also, Eon have bucked the trend set by Fleming numerous times when casting Bond (most noticeably Sean Connery, who Fleming did not approve initially). In many respects Daniel Craig (short, blond, muscular, not conventionally attractive) was the most egregious casting. I don’t see how changing race is anymore offensive than changing hair colour.
Just my view. But I obviously understand that there are strong views on both sides.
The rumours are that Tom Cruise was impressed by NH when they met in possible prep for Top Gun 2. As we know, Tom is 100% committed to the MI series and I trust his judgement re casting.
Absolutely...
The viewing figures for the current female Doctor Who aren't good, I think they're the lowest since the show came back in 2005 - you could argue it was a gimmick that hasn't worked - so it's possible a black Bond could backfire with some of the fanbase but if Eon's still making Bond films in 2023 onwards they could be under pressure to break the casting mould and pick a black actor. I think it's a genuine possibility.
The main stumbling block for a black actor is the lack of black stars receiving sufficient recognition. For every one there are 10 or 12 white actors who could be (and will be) considered for Bond.
I strongly believe anyone who thinks Bond CAN never and/or WILL never be played by a black male actor is wrong. I honestly think BB wasn't being woke or trying to cosy up to the PC lobby. I think it's a very real possibility. I think that is genuinely her opinion on the matter. Notice she said no to Bond being a woman. Why would she do that if she was just been PC.
Fans with the opinion that Bond shouldn't be played by any actor of any ethnicity other than white are absolutely entitled to that opinion. It is completely valid (and probably correct IMO) but that is very different from saying he won't be played by a non white. There is a very strong chance he will be one day. Maybe soon.
Therefore I think rubbishing another forum member's suggestion, questioning their fan credentials, saying they don't understand Fleming and dismissing the suggestion just because he's a black actor is really short sighted. By all means say "no, poor choice etc etc" but I think to just laugh off every black suggestion is reading the times all wrong.
Ask a Dr Who fan 15 years ago if a woman WOULD get the role,not should but WOULD and they would have said no. (Before any one tells me it's different because the Dr is an alien who regenerates and Bond isn't, yes I know that. I'm fully aware that I'm not comparing eggs with eggs but my point is that societal times change. )
Also the Bond films aren't made exclusively for 'Bond fans' like us, as much as I'd love them to be. I'm sure Brocolli respects the fans just like her dad did but she's also a wily business woman with eyes firmly on publicity and perception of her product. She'll do what she feels will serve the box office ultimately. Our opinion's will mean jack in this matter.
JUST TO BE CLEAR ON A COUPLE OF POINTS BEFORE MY POST IS MISCONSTRUED:
* 1, this is not an attack on anyone's recent posts or discussions but merely thoughts on this subject that has been going on for a long time.
* 2, I personally think Bond should be a white male. Always. But I just feel that to imagine it won't happen is 100% wrong.
I do feel that Fleming’s text is sacred. No more comment needed from me on that.
+1
Simple, right? Don’t understand how people just keep saying “but he can be this or that” when he simply isn’t. The character is a well described literary one. You can find someone who fits that description the best he can (Daniel actually does) but you can’t choose someone who doesn’t. Like we’re saying: it’s simple.
But that would require work and creativity two thing I fear lack in today’s society
That is true, sadly.
What’s simple is this: we don’t get to choose the next Bond. We also don’t know what Barbara’s intentions and true feelings are when she said that she’d consider a black actor. We have absolutely no way of knowing if she said it to be polite or if she really meant it.
Therefore, saying ‘Bond can’t be black because Fleming’ is a weak argument, in my opinion. Bond is whatever the producers choose him to be. If they choose a white actor, fine. If they choose a black actor, we have to accept him as our new Bond. Who Bond is in these film series gets decided by the producers of said film series, and we all have to live with the choice they make.
They can say ‘Fleming wrote him as white, so he’ll stay white’ or they can say ‘Fleming wrote him as white, but we choose a non-white actor in the role’. It’s up to the producers to follow Fleming or to deviate from him. The producers of this film series are completely free to not follow what Fleming wrote, they make these films.
If Fleming were alive, he’d insist on a white actor, sure. But he isn’t, and the choice lies in the hands of MGW and BB. And the possibility exists that they choose a black actor.
Again: we have no way of knowing how big this possibility is, because we can’t read BB thoughts when she says things like ”Bond can be black”. The possibility might be very slim (because she didn’t truly meant what she said) or it can be big (because she might be looking for a black actor to play the role). But it’s a possibility nonetheless.
I’m hoping they both make a sane decision and respect the history of the character then.
Should Disney’s next live action remake be a film where Snow White is actually brown? Would it work if we rebooted the Shaft franchise and made him white? A change like that would have to tell a very different story. Instead of having to make changes and tweak key aspects of Bond’s story and history in order to cast a black man in the role, studios should spend their money on creating a new franchise that will give Idris and other ethnic actors the chance to become their own character. A spy who has skills, charm and personality shaped by their upbringing as an ethnic person.
Couldn't agree with this more
The thing I think nobody ever thinks about is, if Eon deciding tomorrow "insert name here" (a black actor) is going to be the new Bond. What happens if say he has 3 films in 6 years (I can only dream) and they all do poorly in the box office. The actor doesn't connect with the audience, so Eon then decide to recast. Imagine the outcry from those who wanted a "black Bond" or a "female 007" if Eon choose a white actor as Bond to replace him. The backlash would be ridiculous and frankly all self inflected
On the flip side, If I were a black actor, I would rather be a leading man in an action film because of my ability, not because people wanted to tick a box (most those people aren't fans and don't care about the series)