Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    I've been a hardcore Bond fan most of my life. I really wouldn't mind a black actor in the role. A lot of Bond fans want extremely fixed tropes in every installment and have very fixed views on what the franchise should be. Personally, I keep an open mind. The Brosnan era, bar GoldenEye, is what happens when Bond is paint-by-numbers. I want brave, progressive, forward-thinking movies.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Personally I've got the impression that this thread is sometimes injected with a little wishfull thinking @Pierce2Daniel when he's got the hots for another black actor. Nothing wrong with that, it just hasn't got much to do with any pick BB or MGW might have for a new Bond.

    @DeerAtTheGates let's put it this way, BB and MGW will choose an actor that'll bring in the most cash. Alienating at least 50% of Bond's fanbase with a black actor is just not good for business. @Pierce2Daniel may think haircolour is the same as skincolour, but to the rest of the world that's not true. In any way, shape or form skincolour says something of your perceaved background (people get that wrong 90%of the time, but that's another story).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    If Bond were to change his race, what would people prefer? An African Bond or an Oriental Bond?
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    We had an oriental Bond in YOLT. How they found an Asian actor who looked a bit like Connery was incredible, very clever.
  • DeerAtTheGatesDeerAtTheGates Belgium
    Posts: 524
    I think the Disney live-action analogy from @suavejmf and @CommanderRoss's point about alienating the public is an interesting one, as Disney already did exactly that.

    @suavejmf brings up a black Snow White, which Disney didn't do. But Disney did announce a live-action remake of The Little Mermaid, in which Ariel will be played by a black actress. In the source material (Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tale), The Little Mermaid is white. In the Disney adaptation, Ariel is white. The public knows her as a white girl with red hair. The same goes for Bond: In the source material, he's a white character. In the adaptations, he's a white character. The public knows him as a white male.

    And yet Disney chooses to make a remake with a black actress. That is not 'respecting how the source material wrote her', it's not even in line with their own adaptation. But they did it because they could, because they wanted to create diversity.

    And then backlash followed, the same kind of backlash that would happen if EON announced a new Bond that's black. Disney basically set themselves up for backlash, they knew it would happen. But they set through with it, and the film will be released with a black actress playing a character that was white in the source material.

    The crucial question in this, as @CommanderRoss pointed out: would EON do the same? Would they appoint a black man to be 007, knowing that they'd get backlash, and potential boycots, less sales and other negative side effects?

    I think BB is someone who's willing to push the envelope, to cast an actor to have a 'fresh take'. But when there's studios breathing down your neck and the pressure is on to make profits (especially since Bond's other custodian, MGM, needs the income), I have to agree with @CommanderRoss: a white male as Bond is a safer bet, and the next actor will probably be white.

    So could EON choose a black actor as Bond? Yes. Should they? Some are against it, others in favour, some are neutral. Will they? Probably not.
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 6,709
    If they change Bond's race, I'll do exactly the same thing I'd do if they changed Bond's gender. I won't watch that film. I won't buy it either. Bond as a cinema experience for me will stop with NTTD. Wanna call me misogynist or racist because of that, go right ahead. You'll be wrong, but be free to do so. You'll never understand a thing about intelectual property, or the adaptation of intelectual material. You'll want a social/gender/racial discussion. I won't. If you want to discuss the right way to adapt literary material and move on with it to new grounds, we can discuss that. Anything else will be a waste of time on my part and I won't partake on it.

    James Bond should be as close as he can to the source material. There are tons of ways to make that bold and innovative at the same time. One can be creative in thousands of different ways by using stellar narratives. Want Bold and Bondian? Take a look at CR. But that is still very close to the source material, isn't it?

    People seem to think that innovation and boldness are done by going against character and characteristics. That's just dumb.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,131
    Univex wrote: »
    If they change Bond's race, I'll do exactly the same thing I'd do if they changed Bond's gender. I won't watch that film. I won't buy it either. Bond as a cinema experience for me will stop with NTTD. Wanna call me misogynist or racist because of that, go right ahead. You'll be wrong, but be free to do so. You'll never understand what a thing about intelectual property, or the adaptation of intelectual material. You'll want a social/gender/racial discussion. I won't. If you want to discuss the right way to adapt literary material and move on with it to new grounds, we can discuss that. Anything else will be a waste of time on my part and I won't partake on it.

    James Bond should be as close as he can to the source material. There are tons of ways to make that bold and innovative at the same time. One can be creative in thousands of different ways by using stellar narratives. Want Bold and Bondian? Take a look at CR. But that is still very close to the source material, isn't it?

    People seem to think that innovation and boldness are done by going against character and characteristics. That's just dumb.

    +1. Great post! I agree with you. The point in the argument is that I/we really don't want a black actor to be Bond......not because they are black.....but because Bond isn’t, Bond is white. Period. No debate
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,131
    I think the Disney live-action analogy from @suavejmf and @CommanderRoss's point about alienating the public is an interesting one, as Disney already did exactly that.

    @suavejmf brings up a black Snow White, which Disney didn't do. But Disney did announce a live-action remake of The Little Mermaid, in which Ariel will be played by a black actress. In the source material (Hans Christian Andersen's fairy tale), The Little Mermaid is white. In the Disney adaptation, Ariel is white. The public knows her as a white girl with red hair. The same goes for Bond: In the source material, he's a white character. In the adaptations, he's a white character. The public knows him as a white male.

    And yet Disney chooses to make a remake with a black actress. That is not 'respecting how the source material wrote her', it's not even in line with their own adaptation. But they did it because they could, because they wanted to create diversity.

    And then backlash followed, the same kind of backlash that would happen if EON announced a new Bond that's black. Disney basically set themselves up for backlash, they knew it would happen. But they set through with it, and the film will be released with a black actress playing a character that was white in the source material.

    The crucial question in this, as @CommanderRoss pointed out: would EON do the same? Would they appoint a black man to be 007, knowing that they'd get backlash, and potential boycots, less sales and other negative side effects?

    I think BB is someone who's willing to push the envelope, to cast an actor to have a 'fresh take'. But when there's studios breathing down your neck and the pressure is on to make profits (especially since Bond's other custodian, MGM, needs the income), I have to agree with @CommanderRoss: a white male as Bond is a safer bet, and the next actor will probably be white.

    So could EON choose a black actor as Bond? Yes. Should they? Some are against it, others in favour, some are neutral. Will they? Probably not.

    Colin Firth as Shaft? Jude Law & Hugh Grant in Bad Boys 3? An all white cast in Boyz N the Hood 2, Tom Cruise as the Black Panther? Robert Pattinson as ‘Blade’?? Adam Sandler as ‘Axel Foley?? All very stupid suggestions, just like the suggestion of Bond being Black or Asian!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    If Bond were to change his race, what would people prefer? An African Bond or an Oriental Bond?


    I wouldn’t watch either....because it would no longer be Bond.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    cwl007 wrote: »
    We had an oriental Bond in YOLT. How they found an Asian actor who looked a bit like Connery was incredible, very clever.


    Nail on the head! Bond pretended to be Asian in YOLT because he is white. Bond got called a ‘Honkey’ in LALD as he’s white.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    @suavejmf quadruple posting. Come on.
    Please. X_X
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    If Bond were to change his race, what would people prefer? An African Bond or an Oriental Bond?

    In the UK, people from the sub continent of India are much more common than those with African heritage. If we're going to open the doors to all races, statistically, Indian folks out number black folks. Which mean "they" have a better chance of making it to, let's say Eton or Fettes.

    Unless, we're changing the background to Bond as well. Instead of having a snobby chap, who wears his suits with such disdain, educated in the traditional old boy network, how about we have a state school chap, with no social mobility? Let's have Bond be both disabled and from a marginalised background, too. There's chaos.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    royale65 wrote: »
    If Bond were to change his race, what would people prefer? An African Bond or an Oriental Bond?

    In the UK, people from the sub continent of India are much more common than those with African heritage. If we're going to open the doors to all races, statistically, Indian folks out number black folks. Which mean "they" have a better chance of making it to, let's say Eton or Fettes.

    Unless, we're changing the background to Bond as well. Instead of having a snobby chap, who wears his suits with such disdain, educated in the traditional old boy network, how about we have a state school chap, with no social mobility? Let's have Bond be both disabled and from a marginalised background, too. There's chaos.

    Ha ha ha! What about him being a gay midget transsexual too. It wouldn’t be PC not to consider that too. All actors need to be considered apparently.

  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    Not all actors should be considered but the ones who could convincingly play the character Fleming created should be. Again we're confusing the character with the actor playing him again.
    A gay Bond? absolutely not. A gay actor playing Bond? I'd have no problem with that at all. If he was the right man for the role his sexuality is irrelevant IMO.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I think it needs to be the best man for the job, when it comes down to pleasing a certain demographic or ticking some boxes rather than the quality of the actor and suitability for the role, this is where we are in trouble.

    I am ready for it at some point, though making it an issue or adding some racial undertone to the character or something within the plot could make it a real problem come recasting.

    I think we all are in agreement that rebooting again to get around such thing would not be welcome?

    It needs to be if it happens just a case of the next guy and the colour of his skin should be irrelevant so the next actor who inhabits the role can be white if necessary.

    Although what happens when they recast after that, can imagine some will say if it goes back to type that it was just a token moment to appease some.

    Do we not see the danger of some expecting the character to stay black?

    I'm sorry it is a very dodgy situation to navigate and dealt with incorrectly it could become something that will shift the character entirely.

    I'm not saying I'll boycott it but I will be most cautious when it or if it happens.
  • Posts: 9,847


    A fan trailer sure but is there anyone against fassbender honestly
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Risico007 wrote: »


    A fan trailer sure but is there anyone against fassbender honestly

    I thought of him as early back as when he appeared as Archie Hicox in IB.

    The age factor but if they wanted to go for an older Bond for a few films, I certainly wouldn't disapprove of it.

    Love Fassy as an actor, oozes charisma, he just needs to stay away from Ridley Scott, such an impressive CV at the beginning and then it all went down hill, flop after flop and some real garbage on his resume.
  • DeerAtTheGatesDeerAtTheGates Belgium
    Posts: 524
    Risico007 wrote: »

    A fan trailer sure but is there anyone against fassbender honestly

    He himself, perhaps? I get the feeling that he thinks the ship has sailed. It’s the same with Clive Owen and Idris Elba: they were on everyone’s list 5-7 years ago, but they don’t consider themselves for the role anymore.

    Contrast with Henry Cavill, who is also in that same list of being named all those years ago, but he still very much wants the role.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,131
    cwl007 wrote: »
    Not all actors should be considered but the ones who could convincingly play the character Fleming created should be. Again we're confusing the character with the actor playing him again.
    A gay Bond? absolutely not. A gay actor playing Bond? I'd have no problem with that at all. If he was the right man for the role his sexuality is irrelevant IMO.

    This is incorrect as a black actor can’t play a white character. I agree with you....but changing Bonds race is just as drastic and ridiculous as changing his sexuality.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    Yes, I agree with you, it would be very big change and I respect your opinion on this.
    It's a change that personally I don't particularly want to see however as I said a page ago I'm now open to a black actor because I honestly expect it to happen. As keen as I am for Bond to stay white I think one day the actor playing him won't be and my love for all things Bond will outweigh any concern , so I'll keep watching.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Fassbender would be my choice for the next Bond without question as mentioned in this thread previously.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Rather than appropriating the character of James Bond, creat a fresh , new character who embraces the same elements and is black. Make a good movie and I’ll buy a ticket.

    +1

    +2
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,970
    He wouldn't be my first choice but if they cast Fassbender, I'd be happy, I think I'd just prefer someone a bit fresher. Plus, I don't think anyone who has been at the top of the main polls for James Bond will ever play the role. Those lists always feel like they've chosen the most famous British they could think of, and Fassbender sometimes falls under that so would make the choice a bit lazy (imo)
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Denbigh wrote: »
    He wouldn't be my first choice but if they cast Fassbender, I'd be happy.

    I don't think age is that much of a factor as much as being convincing in the role. I also wouldn't mind seeing a more mature Bond, personally.

    54f3e1b3d90c76768be101a265890251.jpg

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2020 Posts: 5,970
    Of course. I just think the idea of longevity will definitely be on the cards.

    If I was a producer, I'd definitely want to prolong recasting.
  • weboffearweboffear Scotland
    Posts: 52
    Fassbender isn't British , he's German/Irish , if you think the tabloids made a fuss about a blond actor playing Bond , watch the shit storm if they cast a German actor as a British icon , and Fassbender would be far from my first choice
  • Posts: 15,125
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Of course. I just think the idea of longevity will definitely be on the cards.

    If I was a producer, I'd definitely want to prolong recasting.

    Come to think of it, they might want to go much younger this time round, like they did with Lazenby (although I guess at the time he was only marginally younger than Connery had been when cast.)
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    edited February 2020 Posts: 1,318
    The pro 'black Bond' fans have a new friend, Billie Eilish herself. When asked who should be the next Bond, Eilish replied:
    "Honestly, Michael B. Jordan would kill that shit. I think he’d kill it."

    It's good she's only singing the tune and doesn't call the shots on casting.

    Imo he could be the next black butch lesbian in Orange is the new Black, or is that Black is the new White?

    MICHAEL+B+crop.jpg
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 16,169
    The pro 'black Bond' fans have a new friend, Billie Eilish herself. When asked who should be the next Bond, Eilish replied:
    "Honestly, Michael B. Jordan would kill that shit. I think he’d kill it."

    It's good she's only singing the tune and doesn't call the shots on casting.

    Imo he could be the next black butch lesbian in Orange is the new Black, or is that Black is the new White?

    MICHAEL+B+crop.jpg

    Weren't there rumors he was set to replace Cavill as Superman? That might rule him out on Bond.
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 928
    weboffear wrote: »
    Fassbender isn't British , he's German/Irish , if you think the tabloids made a fuss about a blond actor playing Bond , watch the shit storm if they cast a German actor as a British icon , and Fassbender would be far from my first choice

    If there is anyone to pull off a half-Scottish, half-Swiss Bond as intended by Fleming, it's Fassbender!

    Plus, the more likely media reaction would be "Ugh... another white straight male cast as Bond!"
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    He's not Bond, not Superman, not Mary Poppins, not Lassie...
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