Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    They wanted Dalton first, but he was unavailable. Then Brosnan entered the fray, the Remington Steele saga happened, and it was then that Dalton became available again. So the story goes.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,251
    They wanted Dalton first, but he was unavailable. Then Brosnan entered the fray, the Remington Steele saga happened, and it was then that Dalton became available again. So the story goes.

    Interesting, I’ve always been of the belief that ever since meeting him on the set of FYEO, Cubby had his sights set on Pierce as Moore’s replacement. His success on Remington Steele reinforced this. When Brosnan was unavailable they went with another longtime contender, Dalton.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,590
    They wanted Dalton first, but he was unavailable. Then Brosnan entered the fray, the Remington Steele saga happened, and it was then that Dalton became available again. So the story goes.

    Yeah that is the official line but I’ve always found it a bit dubious. Personally I think Brosnan was the one they were after.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I think Dalton was Cubby's favourite Bond, and he respected and loved Dalton....same way Barbara loves and respects Craig now and he's obviously her favourite Bond.

    Cubby wanted Dalton as Bond in his Sleep....he wanted Dalton forever, but concluded Brosnan was the next best thing, since he got turned down by Dalton several times.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    edited June 2020 Posts: 737

    Denbigh wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @mtm it's funny I always thought Dalton was more Bondian in Rocketeer than in Bond, at least far more comfortable both as a tough man and a suave spy.

    Yeah he’s also just bigger and brasher, and in something like Hot Fuzz he feels bigger than the movie... it’s weird. Maybe he really needed that third one too with a different director to draw the movie star out.
    talos7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @mtm it's funny I always thought Dalton was more Bondian in Rocketeer than in Bond, at least far more comfortable both as a tough man and a suave spy.

    I've said the same about Brosnan and in some cases Moore. In movies like Wild Geese and Gold, Moore showed that he could portray a much more rugged character; to a degree he did this in Golden Gun.

    Yeah I think Moore very much altered his performances more than he’d ever say he did!

    I think Dalton never felt good about the pressure that came with the role of Bond. It didn't help that he was considered second choice. Also I do think that him and Glen were a mismatched "couple". He needed a director more suitable for him.
    I also don’t think it helped that his films weren’t very Bondian - like I’ve said before, his films felt more like intense episodes of Columbo or something with a young British lead. He was only the actor, to me, that didn’t get a film that fully represented James Bond and what that (usually) means. If that makes any sense haha.

    How is he supposed to fully embody a character if the films he’s portraying him in don’t embody who the character is? In my opinion, I’m aware some people love those films and his portrayal but they just never resonated - personally.

    I just don't get how you can arrive at this opinion. Haha. Just goes to show how diverse our reactions can be. For me, it's the Craig films that don't feel very Bondian.
  • Posts: 2,436
    talos7 wrote: »
    They wanted Dalton first, but he was unavailable. Then Brosnan entered the fray, the Remington Steele saga happened, and it was then that Dalton became available again. So the story goes.

    Interesting, I’ve always been of the belief that ever since meeting him on the set of FYEO, Cubby had his sights set on Pierce as Moore’s replacement. His success on Remington Steele reinforced this. When Brosnan was unavailable they went with another longtime contender, Dalton.

    Cubby needed persuading to go with Brosnan.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @mtm it's funny I always thought Dalton was more Bondian in Rocketeer than in Bond, at least far more comfortable both as a tough man and a suave spy.

    Yeah he’s also just bigger and brasher, and in something like Hot Fuzz he feels bigger than the movie... it’s weird. Maybe he really needed that third one too with a different director to draw the movie star out.
    talos7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @mtm it's funny I always thought Dalton was more Bondian in Rocketeer than in Bond, at least far more comfortable both as a tough man and a suave spy.

    I've said the same about Brosnan and in some cases Moore. In movies like Wild Geese and Gold, Moore showed that he could portray a much more rugged character; to a degree he did this in Golden Gun.

    Yeah I think Moore very much altered his performances more than he’d ever say he did!

    I think Dalton never felt good about the pressure that came with the role of Bond. It didn't help that he was considered second choice. Also I do think that him and Glen were a mismatched "couple". He needed a director more suitable for him.
    I also don’t think it helped that his films weren’t very Bondian - like I’ve said before, his films felt more like intense episodes of Columbo or something with a young British lead. He was only the actor, to me, that didn’t get a film that fully represented James Bond and what that (usually) means. If that makes any sense haha.

    How is he supposed to fully embody a character if the films he’s portraying him in don’t embody who the character is? In my opinion, I’m aware some people love those films and his portrayal but they just never resonated - personally.

    I just don't get how you can arrive at this opinion. Haha. Just goes to show how diverse our reactions can be. For me, it's the Craig films that don't feel very Bondian.
    Haha interesting. I don’t know, growing up, it was just very difficult for Dalton to resonate with me.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    edited June 2020 Posts: 1,318
    @Denbigh
    I think he has a good build already and good height. I don't know, I kinda see him as a more period style Bond on screen just because he has some type of "old" face?!

    Animales-Fantasticos-Los-Crimenes-De-Grindelwald-g1-WUt-Te422tx.jpg

    Guy on the left can be a contemporary Bond, guy on the right can be a modern Bond.
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @mtm it's funny I always thought Dalton was more Bondian in Rocketeer than in Bond, at least far more comfortable both as a tough man and a suave spy.

    Yeah he’s also just bigger and brasher, and in something like Hot Fuzz he feels bigger than the movie... it’s weird. Maybe he really needed that third one too with a different director to draw the movie star out.
    talos7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    @mtm it's funny I always thought Dalton was more Bondian in Rocketeer than in Bond, at least far more comfortable both as a tough man and a suave spy.

    I've said the same about Brosnan and in some cases Moore. In movies like Wild Geese and Gold, Moore showed that he could portray a much more rugged character; to a degree he did this in Golden Gun.

    Yeah I think Moore very much altered his performances more than he’d ever say he did!

    I think Dalton never felt good about the pressure that came with the role of Bond. It didn't help that he was considered second choice. Also I do think that him and Glen were a mismatched "couple". He needed a director more suitable for him.
    I also don’t think it helped that his films weren’t very Bondian - like I’ve said before, his films felt more like intense episodes of Columbo or something with a young British lead. He was only the actor, to me, that didn’t get a film that fully represented James Bond and what that (usually) means. If that makes any sense haha.

    How is he supposed to fully embody a character if the films he’s portraying him in don’t embody who the character is? In my opinion, I’m aware some people love those films and his portrayal but they just never resonated - personally.

    I just don't get how you can arrive at this opinion. Haha. Just goes to show how diverse our reactions can be. For me, it's the Craig films that don't feel very Bondian.

    Exactly this @FatherValentine
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    mtm wrote: »
    They wanted Dalton first, but he was unavailable. Then Brosnan entered the fray, the Remington Steele saga happened, and it was then that Dalton became available again. So the story goes.

    Yeah that is the official line but I’ve always found it a bit dubious. Personally I think Brosnan was the one they were after.

    Yeah, it's hard to know. We've heard Brosnan recall the story numerous times but I don't think we've ever heard it from Dalton, have we? Perhaps it's because he has nothing to say on it and Brosnan was the guy originally! Anyway, interesting.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited June 2020 Posts: 5,970
    I mean Casino Royale, Skyfall and Spectre are extremely Bondian, to me anyway. Even if I don’t like Spectre, it was still way more Bondian than Dalton’s two - in my opinion.

    Also @JeremyBondon, I think you double quoted by accident...
  • Posts: 37
    I tend to revisit my old thoughts periodically when something makes me think of this subject again and paraphrasing from an old post a few years ago here is how I see it...

    These are the criteria that I look for in the man who could be a Bond actor in order of importance:

    1. Charisma / "it" factor / /alpha male / presence (call it what you will)
    2. Physically attractive to the opposite sex (could be included in 1)
    3. Believable that they cold do the physical side of the job (height / stature etc)
    4. acting ability - can he portray a British, tough, sexy secret agent
    5. Nationality - preferably British / Irish / Commonwealth in that order

    I put nationality down rather than race specifically. The role should go to whoever scores best in those areas. I don't think we should ever be looking speifially for a "Black Bond" rather it should go to whoever best fits the requirements and if that person is of a different ethnicity, so be it!

    Obviously this is a personal opinion and I am probably biased in that for cinematic Bond we are basically comparing everyone to Connery who is at the top scoring wise in all of those categories. Everyone else who has played it since then has come up short in one or two of the criteria.

    I think the thing we are struggling with most these days is to find someone who has number 1 above (It factor / Alpha male) as lots of the suggestions score pretty well in most of the other categories but I am yet to see the person who truly embodies what Bond represents.

    Hopefully he is somewhere coming up on the radar soo for Bond 26!
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 949
    I think part of the issue is that it can take a fair amount of time for an actor to develop qualities like gravitas, acting credibility, and that mature look that we're looking for in Bond. I remember when Cillian Murphy was younger and his name came up in relation to playing Bond, most people felt he lacked something, was too pretty, or odd-looking, or just not tough enough. Then he did Peaky Blinders and of course now many of us are thinking he could have been great in the role. It's very difficult to look at someone still young(-ish) and see those qualities in them.
  • Posts: 37
    I think part of the issue is that it can take a fair amount of time for an actor to develop qualities like gravitas, acting credibility, and that mature look that we're looking for in Bond. I remember when Cillian Murphy was younger and his name came up in relation to playing Bond, most people felt he lacked something, was too pretty, or odd-looking, or just not tough enough. Then he did Peaky Blinders and of course now many of us are thinking he could have been great in the role. It's very difficult to look at someone still young(-ish) and see those qualities in them.

    Funnily enough he is one of the few I think that gets close on the "it" factor but is too slight and short I think personally. A few years ago he would have been a definite no but he showed he could be an alpha male in Peaky Blinders. Again, in a perfect world if he was 6ft plus then apart form being too old he would be an interesting choice with a bit of bulking up.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    That's the thing. Not many people see it early...Just like how most people just can't see it in Callum Turner now, until he does a gritty film....hopefully, as Bond. Coz once he does it in another film and gets rave reviews, he might turn into a Star, making his chances of Bond difficult.

    My friends too are telling me Robert Pattinson won't be able to pull off Batman...simply because he played a Romantic Vampire, so they just can't see Batman in Pattinson.

    Fleming himself initially didn't believe in Connery....It seems Dark horses usually excel.
  • Posts: 37
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    That's the thing. Not many people see it early...Just like how most people just can't see it in Callum Turner now, until he does a gritty film....hopefully, as Bond. Coz once he does it in another film and gets rave reviews, he might turn into a Star, making his chances of Bond difficult.

    My friends too are telling me Robert Pattinson won't be able to pull off Batman...simply because he played a Romantic Vampire, so they just can't see Batman in Pattinson.

    Fleming himself initially didn't believe in Connery....It seems Dark horses usually excel.

    Fir point although I am also one of the few who sees potential in Callum Turner. If you merge the roles in Capture and Fantastic beasts I think it hsows he could do it in a few years but needs a breakout role to show the "it" factor.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247
    TFC1 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    That's the thing. Not many people see it early...Just like how most people just can't see it in Callum Turner now, until he does a gritty film....hopefully, as Bond. Coz once he does it in another film and gets rave reviews, he might turn into a Star, making his chances of Bond difficult.

    My friends too are telling me Robert Pattinson won't be able to pull off Batman...simply because he played a Romantic Vampire, so they just can't see Batman in Pattinson.

    Fleming himself initially didn't believe in Connery....It seems Dark horses usually excel.

    Fir point although I am also one of the few who sees potential in Callum Turner. If you merge the roles in Capture and Fantastic beasts I think it hsows he could do it in a few years but needs a breakout role to show the "it" factor.

    Nice to have another Advocate for Callum...Yeah, but the breakthrough role could be tricky. Coz once a Big film or franchise picks Callum, that's the end. Just like fans who wanted Pattinson as Bond.

    Not that I wanted Henry Cavill to be less famous up until this point....but if Cavill wasn't Superman today & 'The Man From Uncle' was his only Big film to date, based on that performance & the fact that he was second to Craig in 2005, am sure it would almost be certain that Cavill would be Bond after Craig.
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    Isn't Callum Turner what they call 'ugly cute' these days?
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited June 2020 Posts: 5,970
    I also think the problem is no-ones gonna truly embody the role (to us) until we see the film, so we will eventually just have to trust EON’s instincts, meaning until someone is cast (hopefully Callum haha), it’ll be hard to truly say who could and who couldn’t.

    It’s a main reason why I don’t think “breakout performances” aren’t as necessary as you’d think, because their time to prove themselves is in the audition room, not prior. I know they need to prove themselves somewhat beforehand to get the audition, but again I don’t think that requires a “breakout”. Didn’t Cavill audition for Casino Royale? He wasn’t a breakout back then.

    And @JeremyBondon i think it’s safe to say his attractive is subjective, and a lot of people find him quite handsome, myself included. His role in one of his last films, Emma, was literally the handsome suitor.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2020 Posts: 16,590
    mtm wrote: »
    They wanted Dalton first, but he was unavailable. Then Brosnan entered the fray, the Remington Steele saga happened, and it was then that Dalton became available again. So the story goes.

    Yeah that is the official line but I’ve always found it a bit dubious. Personally I think Brosnan was the one they were after.

    Yeah, it's hard to know. We've heard Brosnan recall the story numerous times but I don't think we've ever heard it from Dalton, have we? Perhaps it's because he has nothing to say on it and Brosnan was the guy originally! Anyway, interesting.

    In the Some Kind Of Hero book there's a quote from Dalton from the contemporaneous TLD EPK where he says he met with the Broccolis for drinks in 'spring '86' to discuss it but he wasn't free because he had West End commitments. According to the 'Making of TLD' book, they had been testing actors in early '86, around February, and Remington Steel was cancelled in May, and it seems that Brosnan was pretty much cast around this time. NBC picked up the option to start shooting Remington Steel again in the middle of July; Dalton's screentest for Bond is described as happening in the 'summer' after they'd offered to move the scheduling around to allow him to shoot Brenda Starr.

    So the idea that he was first choice (as the documentary on the DVD pretty much lays out) is maybe stretching it a bit I think: he was favoured for a long time (famously twice before) and they certainly wanted to have him as one of the candidates, but there doesn't seem to be much to say that he was ever offered the role before Brosnan had it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2020 Posts: 16,590
    TFC1 wrote: »
    I tend to revisit my old thoughts periodically when something makes me think of this subject again and paraphrasing from an old post a few years ago here is how I see it...

    These are the criteria that I look for in the man who could be a Bond actor in order of importance:

    1. Charisma / "it" factor / /alpha male / presence (call it what you will)
    2. Physically attractive to the opposite sex (could be included in 1)
    3. Believable that they cold do the physical side of the job (height / stature etc)
    4. acting ability - can he portray a British, tough, sexy secret agent
    5. Nationality - preferably British / Irish / Commonwealth in that order

    Yeah I'd go with that. I would probably throw comic ability in there too, just to make it even harder!
    :)
    I think part of the issue is that it can take a fair amount of time for an actor to develop qualities like gravitas, acting credibility, and that mature look that we're looking for in Bond. I remember when Cillian Murphy was younger and his name came up in relation to playing Bond, most people felt he lacked something, was too pretty, or odd-looking, or just not tough enough. Then he did Peaky Blinders and of course now many of us are thinking he could have been great in the role. It's very difficult to look at someone still young(-ish) and see those qualities in them.

    Indeed, and I think it's right to say that they haven't cast anyone who hasn't played a lead or co-lead in a movie before (and when they don't follow that rule it hasn't worked out). They might take a gamble with what's seen as being 'proper' Bond looks, but I don't think they'll gamble on a totally unproven star.
    TFC1 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    That's the thing. Not many people see it early...Just like how most people just can't see it in Callum Turner now, until he does a gritty film....hopefully, as Bond. Coz once he does it in another film and gets rave reviews, he might turn into a Star, making his chances of Bond difficult.

    My friends too are telling me Robert Pattinson won't be able to pull off Batman...simply because he played a Romantic Vampire, so they just can't see Batman in Pattinson.

    Fleming himself initially didn't believe in Connery....It seems Dark horses usually excel.

    Fir point although I am also one of the few who sees potential in Callum Turner. If you merge the roles in Capture and Fantastic beasts I think it hsows he could do it in a few years but needs a breakout role to show the "it" factor.

    Yes, I guess it's possible. I was just left a bit cold by his turn in The Capture though: I feel like that was an opportunity to do some screen-filling simmering but he just didn't leave much of an impression. Maybe he'll do something amazing, you can certainly say that Craig did a few trashy movies where he's pretty forgettable too.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    Thank you for expanding on that, @mtm! :)
  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I also think the problem is no-ones gonna truly embody the role (to us) until we see the film, so we will eventually just have to trust EON’s instincts, meaning until someone is cast (hopefully Callum haha), it’ll be hard to truly say who could and who couldn’t.

    It’s a main reason why I don’t think “breakout performances” aren’t as necessary as you’d think, because their time to prove themselves is in the audition room, not prior. I know they need to prove themselves somewhat beforehand to get the audition, but again I don’t think that requires a “breakout”. Didn’t Cavill audition for Casino Royale? He wasn’t a breakout back then.

    And @JeremyBondon i think it’s safe to say his attractive is subjective, and a lot of people find him quite handsome, myself included. His role in one of his last films, Emma, was literally the handsome suitor.

    Strange. I do not find him handsome one bit, but yeah it is subjective. He looks nerdy/geeky to me. Certainly not alpha(ish)

    %2Fmethode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Fbcd4cd22-cd7f-11e9-bfe0-b5ac4ce6ca95.jpg?crop=3279%2C1845%2C395%2C1754&resize=1180
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Isn't Callum Turner what they call 'ugly cute' these days?

    I think he's Good-looking and Dandy....And I don't think he'll get the same bashing like Craig got back in 2005, if chosen....but look how Craig looks the part today.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited June 2020 Posts: 5,970
    @JeremyBondon i just think once the guy is given the time to appropriately prepare for the role, whatever that entails this time round, he really could be James Bond.

    And in fairness to your opinion, I see what you’re saying, but from someone whose been aptly following his career since the E4 show Glue, I must say the way he carries himself and just who is he as an actor I think would be exciting and fresh move for the franchise, while also more honorary to the original character Fleming created in terms of his more classic, English gentleman look.

    Although maybe I’ve spoilt his chances by mentioning him so much haha :D


    I also did a bit of fan art for those interested haha :)
    WfYBAaD.jpg
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,251
    Just say no... 😏

    All jokes aside, I don’t see him in any way as Bond, even if I squint.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited June 2020 Posts: 7,593
    Gives me Steve Coogan vibes in some way.

    The pic @JeremyBondon posted reminds me of a friend that lived down the street from me when I was 12.

    I can see where people are going with the suggestion, in a sort of hoagy carmichael way, or Clive Owens, but he still misses that mark IMO.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited June 2020 Posts: 5,970
    talos7 wrote: »
    Just say no... 😏
    Just suggest someone else.

    And fair play @NickTwentyTwo
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited June 2020 Posts: 4,247
    I think what I've noticed about casting a Bond actor is, we all want the new Bond to look at least like the outgoing one, that's why fans initially found Craig unfit, because of Brosnan....now the world has embraced and accepted Craig as Bond. And if a name is mentioned for Bond and he isn't Muscular or Ruggedly Handsome, he doesn't fit in because Craig is the outgoing one. Then when this so called 'Misfit' actor shoots a very Bondian scene for his opening scene, he wins over the Audience, he's accepted as Bond, then the Guy who's going to replace him, must look like him or have his qualities, and if the new guy doesn't exactly look like him, but shoots a Bondian scene for his opener, he wins the Crowd and he's accepted as Bond.

    Am sure most people don't remember Craig is Blonde anymore, because of how good he has been.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 949
    I get why some have Callum picked as a good possible next Bond, what with his height, his age, and the varied parts in quality productions that he's been getting. I get that there is a buzz around him, and that plenty of people find him attractive. So I totally think he is a valid choice. However, having said all that...

    I really don't like his face. No matter how many times people tell me he's attractive, I don't see it. And I don't think he looks like a classic English gentleman at all. I may well be prejudiced because of the rather unsympathetic roles I've seen him play, but whilst those in Callum's corner are totally right to point out he is often picked for 'handsome' roles, I will point out that he is often given roles where the audience isn't supposed to be rooting for him: in Emma he's not the romantic lead, he's the cad; in Fantastic Beasts he's the overbearing older brother; in War & Peace he's an incestuous cad; and in The Capture he's the guy the audience isn't sure they should be rooting for.

    The casting agents must know he's got an alpha-male (if I may use the term, I know many feel it is outdated) quality, but a slightly unlikeable quality as well. He's kind of on the cusp. We have seen actors cross from one side to the other, it is possible, but it's definitely a hurdle for him to overcome, imo. At the moment, judging by this forum, he's a marmite choice.

    I'm by no means trying to shut down people putting him forward, just putting a counterpoint to those saying how right he is for the role. I'm just not won over at all yet.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited June 2020 Posts: 5,970
    All fair @sandbagger1, these are the comments I’m interested to read cause they actually provide debate and discussion instead of just saying ‘no’ which provides nothing so don’t feel like your shutting anyone down. I completely see where you’re coming from, and how our opinions differ.

    As for you mention of him being on the cusp, it’s why I provide so heavily the idea that he’s not the right man for tomorrow, but he could be for the time they’re looking to cast, which in my eyes won’t be for a few years.
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