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Although it has to be said there was an almost desperate clamour for people to diss Craig's Bond around the time of QoS - I had loads of people tell me it was a Bourne rip off etc.
Anyone remember that image in Total Film that they got an artist to draw up? It showed Bourne standing over Daniel Craig's Bond, with Bourne holding a rolled up newspaper or what ever he uses in the film, and Craig cowering and in tears from what I remember. Absolutely horrible image, and also hilarious given how terrible the Bourne series became (all the Treadstone agents are on weird super strength pills, and he retires to become a bare knuckle fighter lol. What a po faced joke that series was overall).
That was the last time I bought that magazine. Haven't seen the image since, so may be remembering it slightly wrong.
Yes, Roger staying too long meant that Bond's image suffered (although I loved Roger!), and although Grace Jones and Duran Duran probably did help in the short term, it wasn't a long term gain. Daylights nearly reinvigorated it, but I think Dalton just didn't really work for audiences and so it never really got cool again, and just whimpered away (as much as a successful blockbuster film can, of course! It's all a matter of relativity).
I don't recall that, but I guess that would have been reaction to the film just not being very good rather than a Craig kickback per se. I think they did incredibly well with Skyfall to bounce back after that.
I'm afraid I was only ever an occasional TF reader: I do remember they guessed the last line of TWINE though, which impressed me!
I loved the Bourne series, I think they're great pieces of work, but they do seem to have lost their impact a bit- they've not dated well. Which I'm very surprised by- I haven't revisited them in a long time now.
I used to read Total Film until the magazine became a little dull. I miss the days when they delivered quality reviews and always had some great countdowns.
In addition they won't watch any movie made before they were born.
Those few people tend to firmly believe Bond is a codename and that the gunbarrel is a camera lens aperture.
I remember For Your Eyes Only came out around the same time as Raiders of the Lost Ark and we had to choose which film we would see as a family outing - I chose Raiders because it was by George Lucas, and of course Raiders turned out to be an all-time classic; though FYEO was a good time at the cinema when I did see it, it didn't compare to Raiders (imo at least). By that point the Bond films were a friendly staple at the movies, out every two years or so, and always a good time, but never something as special as a Star Wars or Indiana Jones. And of course they were always shown on TV every Bank Holliday, and with only three channels this meant absolutely everybody had seen all but the most recent Bond films. Usually more than once.
I remember Moore's advancing age became something of a joke - everybody knew he had stayed in the role too long. We were all waiting for him to leave the job to someone else. Dalton failed to generate much excitement, however. My dad, always a fan of spy books by Deighton or le Carré, thought the Bond films too silly to watch.
I remember being underwhelmed by The Living Daylights (still find it weak, tbh), and I remember that though I really liked Licence to Kill (and it's still one of my favourites), generally the opinion was that Dalton lacked the cool laid back charm of Moore in his heyday - I definitely remember a friend saying that Dalton wasn't cool and that Moore was far better. Must have been about eighteen at the time.
Brosnan taking over the role brought a lot of excitement back, and of course he had that laid back comic timing that Moore had. I thought Goldeneye was good, I thought Brosnan was good, but I wished the Bond films would get more serious and grounded (I hated the laser beam watch in Goldeneye). By this time I was much more into spy stories than I was as a kid, but comparing a Brosnan Bond film to miniseries such as Tinker, Tailor or Edge of Darkness did them no favours. I felt each Brosnan Bond got steadily more forgettable - I remember walking out of TWINE after the credits with the friend I always went to see 007 films with, and having absolutely nothing to talk about - straight afterwards, and I couldn't think of anything notable about the film. By DAD my friend was spouting the stupid codename nonsense, evidently something he read in one of the movie magazines - I pointed out how stupid it was, but damn, how quickly a stupid idea spreads!
All this time I had been very much a casual Bond fan, not ever having bought any of the films on vhs or dvd (they were on all the time, after all). Then Casino Royale came out, and Bond, the hero, was actually exciting. Not just the film, but 007 himself was a much cooler, stronger character. I bought myself the dvd as soon as it was out. It wasn't just Craig that made it good, though - the writing was simply much better than anything in years. My father was ill at the time and never recovered his health, But the little he saw of CR (it was the scene on the train where Bond first meets Vesper) actually made him comment that the dialogue was really good, which was not something I ever thought I'd hear him say about a Bond film.
I think I bought the Connery box-set when I saw it on sale not so long after seeing CR - they still hold up pretty well for me (well, DAF not so much). Definitely the Craig era has given the 007 franchise credibility that it had lacked for a while. Spectre, however, was horrible - dull and stupid, which is a disaster imo. I am more worried about the writing and direction the new films will take, than whichever actor they choose - obviously I want it to be someone I'd like, but with good writing even an average actor or a miscast actor should be able to muddle through, but clueless writing and bad creative choices will scupper this ship dead in the water, imo.
I'm very much in the camp that says you don't want to chase trends, when in doubt you should get back to Fleming as much as possible. No stupid mythology-making plot twists (I am your arch-nemesis AND your brother!), no trying to give Bond a life-changing character arc every film, just concentrate on plots that hang together, concentrate on making the fight-scenes tighter and better, modernise intelligently when necessary. The core Bond concept should still be viable. If you have lost faith in the validity of the character then you should walk away. Start a new franchise rather than changing the old one out of all recognition.
Anyway, sorry for the wall of text, guys.
No apologies necessary @sandbagger1 ... that was an enjoyable read of what your journey was to becoming the Bond fan you are today. Thanks for sharing.
Dalton was Cubby's first choice actually.
Only difference is that Moore’s Bond didn’t look threatening with a gun in his hand, while Dalton’s Bond genuinely looked like he would kill without hesitation.
To me, Moore just felt a little smug when pointing a gun at someone, even if he had his serious moments. Dalton holding Pushkin at gunpoint and stripping his mistress to distract a goon in TLD was something even I don’t think Moore could of pulled off.
That's my favourite Dalton Bond moment, he just is James Bond in that moment. He's so convincing and assured. It makes you realise that Bond will do anything to get the job done and he's a ruthless killer. It's probably one of my favourite moments of the series
One of my favourite Bond scenes, too. And agreed about Moore, though I still enjoy him in the role.
Very much agreed. Not just a great Dalton scene, where he's at his very best, but a great Bond scene, period.
(In my opinion, I just don't think Moore could ever have pulled off something like that, not even close (and I too enjoy Moore, no knock against him. His portrayal had limits into how dark he'd allow it to go, and kicking Locque off a cliff seemed to be that limit)).
I watched High-Rise again the other day. That's a film with three actors who have been linked to the Bond role in the press at one stage or another: Hiddleston, Evans, and Purefoy. All very different presences on-screen.
And I think that's why in general his Bond didn't hit the mark for people: for better or worse Bond has moved beyond Fleming and the audience expect certain things from 007, and one of those is suaveness and cool and confidence. And by being on edge and slightly frantic, Dalton seemed on the edge of nervousness, and that's not the swaggering, super-cool Bond people expect. Bond is in control. Now, he doesn't have to be that all the time: even Moore's Bond got scared and rattled from time to time, but you do need a sense that in general Bond thinks he's got the biggest balls in the room. Most of the moments we love and which make us smile from the Bond films involve him being cool and swaggery. Would Dalton's Bond have popped that grape into his mouth in Derval's room in Thunderball?
Craig went serious with his Bond, but his Bond had the huge self-belief that Dalton's Bond missed- and CR even made us question whether his huge self-confidence was a fault of his character and misplaced which was a brave place to go, but it was crucially still there, so he still felt like James Bond 007 next to Connery and Moore.
Now it may well be that John Glen is to blame for Dalton's Bond missing that swagger as a director is supposed to guide the performances, but nevertheless I think it's an aspect which really damaged his portrayal.
He was certainly rumored. Ex aequo with Jason Isaacs he was my first choice to succeed Brosnan, until Craig was cast.