Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Did someone say that Cavill has now ruled himself out, due to a new Superman film?

    If that's true, Turner now moves up to my #1 spot... just saying. ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,368
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I mean, Bond's merely a character, so why can't an American play him so long as he nails the accent? It's funny how some are cool with his skin color changing like it makes zero difference

    Well, what difference does it make? No-one seems able to explain it.
    An American nailing the accent; yeah, as long as it's perfect I'd be fine with that.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I think all of us have some level of subconscious “prejudice,” which is molded by society, but it’s a huge difference between being outright hateful or discriminatory.

    I think that's probably right, but one can lead to the other, if not in ourselves than in others in society; so why not confront it in yourself (not aimed at yourself, Fox) and challenge your own 'preferences' to make sure that they're not being fuelled by a deeper prejudice?

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    "Simply because some prefer a white Bond, they are suddenly racist."

    Yes. lol. If I prefer a white teacher, that'd make me racist. If I prefer a white Sherlock Holmes, I'd be racist. If I preferred a white prime minister, I'd be racist. Same with James Bond buddy!

    Apples and oranges. Preferring a white teacher or Prime Minister is completely different than preferring that a fictional character remain an established ethnicity.

    I don’t want want extremely pale, freckled red headed American to be Bond; I guess that makes me a “gingerist” and , as an American, a self loathing xenophobe. Wait, is that possible? 🤔

    I almost think we’re being punked

    Well, I mean... why couldn't a redhead play him? I thought Damian Lewis seemed a decent shout for a while, I think he spoofed Bond-like roles in a couple of films (even ads) and made it work. Would it have been a problem?
    Being an American is obviously a different situation if he's got the accent: Bond is a British character and works for the UK Government so it just is part of the character which makes the story work.

    Presenting everything as being an equivalency doesn't really work: some of these criteria are important to how the character actually functions onscreen, and some aren't, or it isn't being explained how they are. If it's just personal taste, well... in what way is it more tasteful?

    That’s my point; it my preference that a pale ginger not be cast as Bond, not that he couldn’t be cast.
    Preference does not equate to prejudice.

    But then... why do you prefer? I mean I look at Lewis a few years back and don't see an issue. Maybe if some people examined their preferences then we would see a few more hidden prejudices revealed and worked out of society.

    Well are there foods that you like and dislike?
    We all have preferences ,

    It's one thing to say I don't like mushrooms, it's quite another to say I don't like black people. :))

    Jokes aside, I agree about preferences; people can want whatever they want with regards to who is cast as the next Bond.
  • QsCatQsCat London
    Posts: 253
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I've always been the type of fan that has wanted the "traditional" Bond, and can't see myself being able to picture a black actor as the "actual" Bond. Like it would feel like a different version of the character to me, not the actual character. I'll admit it could be racism on my part though, on a subconscious level.

    I want Bond to be as close as possible to how he's described in the books. Like I've said before, saying you don't want a black Bond isn't like saying you don't want a black doctor, prime minister or son-in-law. I don't want a black Bond for the same reason I don't want a woman Bond, or a short Bond, or a blonde/bald/ginger Bond.
    I know that these days, for a person to even notice someone's race is seen as racist. Especially on-line where it's easy for people to finger-wag because of the anonymity.

    The issue now is that you've mostly gotten your "Bond from the books" for 60 years so far, and there's no reason a modern interpretation of Bond can't be black, or anything else. The issue is you are willing to tell an actor they can't play a role because they are not white. Simple as that.

    It has long been established in theater that even the most traditional characters can and should be reinterpreted by new directors and actors, women playing men, etc. It just doesn't matter that much, and if it does, it shouldn't. If you don't want to see something new, watch the 25 movies and read the dozens of books you have.

    I'm an actor. If I was to audition for Othello I don't think I'd have much chance. They'd have to break it to me that I'm not black enough. It'd be tough at first, but I'd get over it .
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,368
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    "Simply because some prefer a white Bond, they are suddenly racist."

    Yes. lol. If I prefer a white teacher, that'd make me racist. If I prefer a white Sherlock Holmes, I'd be racist. If I preferred a white prime minister, I'd be racist. Same with James Bond buddy!

    Apples and oranges. Preferring a white teacher or Prime Minister is completely different than preferring that a fictional character remain an established ethnicity.

    I don’t want want extremely pale, freckled red headed American to be Bond; I guess that makes me a “gingerist” and , as an American, a self loathing xenophobe. Wait, is that possible? 🤔

    I almost think we’re being punked

    Well, I mean... why couldn't a redhead play him? I thought Damian Lewis seemed a decent shout for a while, I think he spoofed Bond-like roles in a couple of films (even ads) and made it work. Would it have been a problem?
    Being an American is obviously a different situation if he's got the accent: Bond is a British character and works for the UK Government so it just is part of the character which makes the story work.

    Presenting everything as being an equivalency doesn't really work: some of these criteria are important to how the character actually functions onscreen, and some aren't, or it isn't being explained how they are. If it's just personal taste, well... in what way is it more tasteful?

    That’s my point; it my preference that a pale ginger not be cast as Bond, not that he couldn’t be cast.
    Preference does not equate to prejudice.

    But then... why do you prefer? I mean I look at Lewis a few years back and don't see an issue. Maybe if some people examined their preferences then we would see a few more hidden prejudices revealed and worked out of society.

    Well are there foods that you like and dislike?
    We all have preferences ,

    I don't taste Bond, though. My preference is for Bond, a slight change in his hair colour doesn't stop him being Bond to me.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Thinking of the obesity example some posts back, would we rule out an actor, say with a physique like John Goodman's in THE BIG LEBOWSKI as Bond? And would that make us predjudiced?

    As explained, it's part of the USPs of Bond that he is vaguely athletic and alpha-male-ish. If you take that away then the character becomes something else.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,368
    QsCat wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I've always been the type of fan that has wanted the "traditional" Bond, and can't see myself being able to picture a black actor as the "actual" Bond. Like it would feel like a different version of the character to me, not the actual character. I'll admit it could be racism on my part though, on a subconscious level.

    I want Bond to be as close as possible to how he's described in the books. Like I've said before, saying you don't want a black Bond isn't like saying you don't want a black doctor, prime minister or son-in-law. I don't want a black Bond for the same reason I don't want a woman Bond, or a short Bond, or a blonde/bald/ginger Bond.
    I know that these days, for a person to even notice someone's race is seen as racist. Especially on-line where it's easy for people to finger-wag because of the anonymity.

    The issue now is that you've mostly gotten your "Bond from the books" for 60 years so far, and there's no reason a modern interpretation of Bond can't be black, or anything else. The issue is you are willing to tell an actor they can't play a role because they are not white. Simple as that.

    It has long been established in theater that even the most traditional characters can and should be reinterpreted by new directors and actors, women playing men, etc. It just doesn't matter that much, and if it does, it shouldn't. If you don't want to see something new, watch the 25 movies and read the dozens of books you have.

    I'm an actor. If I was to audition for Othello I don't think I'd have much chance. They'd have to break it to me that I'm not black enough. It'd be tough at first, but I'd get over it .

    I know you're being light-hearted, but race is a bit of a theme in Othello though, it's not entirely equivalent.
  • edited October 2022 Posts: 4,133
    For what it's worth, I don't think it's a simple case of being 'colour blind' about casting different races for certain roles but whether a) one thinks that a specific race isn't integral to that specific character or b) whether casting an actor of a different race in the role will add anything new/interesting to that character.

    So like I said, you won't have a white Black Panther or a white Othello (short of some rather problematic make-up alternations, let's just say) because their blackness is one of the core traits of both characters. The new Batman film probably wanted a white Bruce Wayne because his WASP-ish, privileged upbringing is a big part of the story, subtle as that is.

    For Bond, I suppose the issue here is that there are some that don't think his whiteness is important in the context of a modern film. There's a case for that certainly. Being British, having a love of cars, women, gambling, don't inherently require you to be white, and with the right actor who embodies the part you could get something interesting. While you're more likely white if you attend Eton or Fettes/be from that specific background Bond has, even this isn't fundamentally dependent on race either, and rarely does Bond venture into outright social commentary, so I don't think we'd necessarily have a situation like The Batman I mentioned.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    "Simply because some prefer a white Bond, they are suddenly racist."

    Yes. lol. If I prefer a white teacher, that'd make me racist. If I prefer a white Sherlock Holmes, I'd be racist. If I preferred a white prime minister, I'd be racist. Same with James Bond buddy!

    Apples and oranges. Preferring a white teacher or Prime Minister is completely different than preferring that a fictional character remain an established ethnicity.

    I don’t want want extremely pale, freckled red headed American to be Bond; I guess that makes me a “gingerist” and , as an American, a self loathing xenophobe. Wait, is that possible? 🤔

    I almost think we’re being punked

    Well, I mean... why couldn't a redhead play him? I thought Damian Lewis seemed a decent shout for a while, I think he spoofed Bond-like roles in a couple of films (even ads) and made it work. Would it have been a problem?
    Being an American is obviously a different situation if he's got the accent: Bond is a British character and works for the UK Government so it just is part of the character which makes the story work.

    Presenting everything as being an equivalency doesn't really work: some of these criteria are important to how the character actually functions onscreen, and some aren't, or it isn't being explained how they are. If it's just personal taste, well... in what way is it more tasteful?

    That’s my point; it my preference that a pale ginger not be cast as Bond, not that he couldn’t be cast.
    Preference does not equate to prejudice.

    But then... why do you prefer? I mean I look at Lewis a few years back and don't see an issue. Maybe if some people examined their preferences then we would see a few more hidden prejudices revealed and worked out of society.

    Well are there foods that you like and dislike?
    We all have preferences ,

    It's one thing to say I don't like mushrooms, it's quite another to say I don't like black people. :))

    Jokes aside, I agree about preferences; people can want whatever they want with regards to who is cast as the next Bond.

    Not wanting Bond Bond doesn’t mean that one dislikes other races and ethnicities. But you know that.
  • edited October 2022 Posts: 784
    I think the person with most forehead wrinkles should get the part, regardless of race. Forehead wrinkles are the very essence of Bond.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,645
    007HallY wrote: »
    For what it's worth, I don't think it's a simple case of being 'colour blind' about casting different races for certain roles but whether a) one thinks that a specific race isn't integral to that specific character or b) whether casting an actor of a different race in the role will add anything new/interesting to that character.

    So like I said, you won't have a white Black Panther or a white Othello (short of some rather problematic make-up alternations, let's just say) because their blackness is one of the core traits of both characters. The new Batman film probably wanted a white Bruce Wayne because his WASP-ish, privileged upbringing is a big part of the story, subtle as that is.

    For Bond, I suppose the issue here is that there are some that don't think his whiteness is important in the context of a modern film. There's a case for that certainly. Being British, having a love of cars, women, gambling, don't inherently require you to be white, and with the right actor who embodies the part you could get something interesting. While you're more likely white if you attend Eton or Fettes/be from that specific background Bond has, even this isn't fundamentally dependent on race either, and rarely does Bond venture into outright social commentary, so I don't think we'd necessarily have a situation like The Batman I mentioned.

    +1
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    I think the person with most forehead wrinkles should get the part, regardless of race. Forehead wrinkles is the very essence of Bond.

    This is probably the dumbest conversation on race I've ever witnessed.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
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  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    When the memes are being thrown out, we know we are thankfully into the twilight stage.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,546
    The objective truths are these (and I think most people are actually saying this):
    It's perfectly okay if you prefer a white actor as Bond. Why not.
    They can cast a black actor, and the character will still be Bond. The colour of his skin is not inextricably linked to the character in the same way it is for Shaft or Blade. It just isn't. What's important is the stories they're telling, and many characteristics of Bond are vital to these stories being told (sexy, dangerous, capable, British). Bond is the immoveable object up against the unstoppable forces of his villains. That's what's important.
    All of my picks for the next Bond happen to be white guys. Richard Madden, Luke Evans, etc. I don't particularly want Sope, Idris, Rege or any of the people of colour that have been put forward, for a variety of reasons. If they do cast a person of colour in the role and it's an interesting choice, I will be excited. I'm basically excited for anyone they chose, and like most people here, when they do choose someone, I'll dive into their back catalogue in anticipation for the next Bond film.
    Finally, anyone in here saying other people aren't Bond fans for this reason or that can fuck off. The last bastion of the argumentless, truly, to say someone else is a lesser fan because they don't agree with something you've said. You should be banned simply because you're detrimental to a community of discussion. You contribute less than nothing.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    In other news, Henry Cavill recently posted a brief message confirming his return as Superman. It confirmed something about which I had recently posted; he is much more charming and relaxed when speaking with his natural accent. It’s somewhat ironic that as he discussed his return as The Man of Steel, I found myself thinking, ‘ you know, maybe he could be a good Bond.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    The thing I love about Cavill is that whatever he takes on he dives head first into the source material. I have no doubt he would have taken the same approach to Bond.

    But it's moot now.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    He probably would have been passable. I'm still just bored thinking about him as Bond though.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    edited October 2022 Posts: 15,133
    Well, that was fun.
    I log on this morning to see 100 new posts in this thread, thinking maybe there is some news on the casting.
    There was a time when I wanted Bond to remain as close to the Fleming interpretation of Bond as possible. A white male, mid-thirties, attractive to women, athletic, suave, charming and confident.
    But to be honest, the cinematic Bond is a slightly different character to Fleming's Bond.
    EON's Bond is not as snobbish as Fleming's, he doesn't have a housekeeper called May.
    He's an expert on everything, and never really looked quite like the description Fleming gave of Bond. With Dalton the film makers at least tried to resemble him, with the comma of hair.
    So, when casting the next Bond, I see no problem with casting the actor who best embodies the characteristics of the EON Bond, if that actor happens to be black, white, Asian or anything else, then I'll give them the benefit of the doubt first.
    No matter who is cast, they'll be some backlash from certain fans.
    Based on their looks and presence on screen I think, Sope Dirisu, Aidan Turner and Nicholas Hoult fit the bill to be an EON Bond.
    I'm sure we can debate, argue and annoy each other till the cows come home. At the end of the day, this is a forum for the discussion of such things. None of us are right, and none of us are wrong. We're just sharing our opinion with likeminded fans.


  • Posts: 1,630
    Benny wrote: »
    Well, that was fun.
    I log on this morning to see 100 new posts in this thread, thinking maybe there is some news on the casting.
    There was a time when I wanted Bond to remain as close to the Fleming interpretation of Bond as possible. A white male, mid-thirties, attractive to women, athletic, suave, charming and confident.
    But to be honest, the cinematic Bond is a slightly different character to Fleming's Bond.
    EON's Bond is not as snobbish as Fleming's, he doesn't have a housekeeper called May.
    He's an expert on everything, and never really looked quite like the description Fleming gave of Bond. With Dalton the film makers at least tried to resemble him, with the comma of hair.
    So, when casting the next Bond, I see no problem with casting the actor who best embodies the characteristics of the EON Bond, if that actor happens to be black, white, Asian or anything else, then I'll give them the benefit of the doubt first.
    No matter who is cast, they'll be some backlash from certain fans.
    Based on their looks and presence on screen I think, Sope Dirisu, Aidan Turner and Nicholas Hoult fit the bill to be an EON Bond.
    I'm sure we can debate, argue and annoy each other till the cows come home. At the end of the day, this is a forum for the discussion of such things. None of us are right, and none of us are wrong. We're just sharing our opinion with likeminded fans.


    You find N. Hoult handsome so as to portray Bond ? He's likeable, but...
  • Posts: 1,630
    Many folks on here assert they want to see "Fleming's Bond" onscreen.
    Did you like Connery in the role ? Not Fleming's Bond, though, was he ? If you say he was, or he was enough, then you're already recognizing that it is quite fine to deviate from the written Bond. There are characteristics of the Fleming Bond, after all, which are difficult to portray effectively in a normal-length film. Does anyone want to see Bond the uncertain, Bond the addict, Bond the colonialist (not like in the 1800s, but...), Bond the bigot, Bond the snob, perhaps even Bond with a death wish ? How attractive could such a person be when they (and their clothes and their automobile and their residence and their office) smell of cigarette smoke (ashes, in other words), taste of it and reek of alcohol ? Of course not. Have your favorite Bond actors looked like Hoagy Carmichael ? Nope. Does anyone these days - and even back in the 1960s and 1970s - even know what Hoagy Carmichael looked like ? Nope.
    The only reasonable conclusion is that folks here, and fans, generally, want to see a handsome, smart, capable, athletic, resourceful and attractive man of action.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    Since62 wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    Well, that was fun.
    I log on this morning to see 100 new posts in this thread, thinking maybe there is some news on the casting.
    There was a time when I wanted Bond to remain as close to the Fleming interpretation of Bond as possible. A white male, mid-thirties, attractive to women, athletic, suave, charming and confident.
    But to be honest, the cinematic Bond is a slightly different character to Fleming's Bond.
    EON's Bond is not as snobbish as Fleming's, he doesn't have a housekeeper called May.
    He's an expert on everything, and never really looked quite like the description Fleming gave of Bond. With Dalton the film makers at least tried to resemble him, with the comma of hair.
    So, when casting the next Bond, I see no problem with casting the actor who best embodies the characteristics of the EON Bond, if that actor happens to be black, white, Asian or anything else, then I'll give them the benefit of the doubt first.
    No matter who is cast, they'll be some backlash from certain fans.
    Based on their looks and presence on screen I think, Sope Dirisu, Aidan Turner and Nicholas Hoult fit the bill to be an EON Bond.
    I'm sure we can debate, argue and annoy each other till the cows come home. At the end of the day, this is a forum for the discussion of such things. None of us are right, and none of us are wrong. We're just sharing our opinion with likeminded fans.


    You find N. Hoult handsome so as to portray Bond ? He's likeable, but...

    Hoult is definitely on my list of candidates. He is a strong actor who is the perfect age, is growing into his looks and has just the right level of fame. Also, he’s not attached to any other franchise.

    gpKA6Ca.jpg
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me more of a selective human than someone who doesn't believe anything.

    And I'm okay with Cavill in the role.


  • talos7 wrote: »
    Hoult is definitely on my list of candidates. He is a strong actor who is the perfect age, is growing into his looks and has just the right level of fame. Also, he’s not attached to any other franchise.
    Same for me. And not only he is not attached to any other franchise anymore; but we also know he is ready to, as demonstrated the fact he was ready to play Batman for Matt Reeves (and was close to win the role).
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited October 2022 Posts: 2,641
    I'm really intrigued to see what the tone of the next era is like. I personally really enjoyed the gritty tone of the early Daniel era and I think it didn't work when they tried to be a bit more camp later on.

    It'll be interesting to see if they stick with the Daniel era tone, that's served them so well at the box office or they revert to a lighter tone
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Yes, I thought the lighter tone from SF onwards and the campier elements in SP and NTTD diluted what they'd achieved with CR and QOS. Mind you, I read an old interview with Marc Forster where he said that if he'd accepted BB's offer to do Dan's 3rd film he'd've wanted a lighter touch and more gags, so another QOS was probably off the cards no matter what - shame! But, yes, I hope the next few films don't go any lighter than Dan's last couple.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,011
    I still think an actor like George MacKay is still very much in the mix, and is likely to screen test.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    @Venutius I agree mate.
    My big problem with the lighter tone in the recent films, is it's more distracting than it is funny, in my opinion
  • edited October 2022 Posts: 784
    I wonder how Marc Fosters lighter tone would have turned out. Would it have had aesthetic and artistic implications or would the gags simply have been less quick/subtle than in QoS?
  • Posts: 2,162
    I wonder how Marc Fosters lighter tone would have turned out. Would it have had aesthetic and artistic implications or would the gags simply have been less quick/subtle than in QoS?

    I’d have Forster back, give him a decent amount of time to work out the script and edit the film together in post.
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