Octopussy is Moore's best performance???

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  • Posts: 11,425
    Ahhh, Sir Rog. He really is the reason the series is still going. He showed you could follow Sean, do it differently and in some respect, do it better...

    Thanks to Rog we always live in hope that the next guy will bring something new - a different twist that makes everything feel fresh again.

    Had Rog failed in the role (and his first two are perhaps a little bit shaky), or they'd cast a different actor who just didn't work out, I doubt the series would have reached 50 years.

    All hail Sir Rog!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Getafix wrote: »
    Ahhh, Sir Rog. He really is the reason the series is still going. He showed you could follow Sean, do it differently and in some respect, do it better...

    Thanks to Rog we always live in hope that the next guy will bring something new - a different twist that makes everything feel fresh again.

    Had Rog failed in the role (and his first two are perhaps a little bit shaky), or they'd cast a different actor who just didn't work out, I doubt the series would have reached 50 years.

    All hail Sir Rog!

    Indeed, @Getafix! Sir Roger rarely gets the credit he deserves but you've made an impressive stab at it with that post right there! It is of course very true that where Moore led in terms of playing Bond differently from Sean Connery others very much followed with the courage and example of Moore having led the way.
  • Moore fighting Buzzsaw and the other hired killers in Octopussy's mansion is definitely a highlight.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Moore fighting Buzzsaw and the other hired killers in Octopussy's mansion is definitely a highlight.

    Yes, indeed. That's one that I missed.

    :)
  • Posts: 1,146
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Bond was tough.
    You think Moore was tough?
    Could hold his own against those two?
    Honestly?
    Dude, seriously, I was a stunt guy in films, and am a lifelong martial artist- ANYTHING can be made to look effective in the movies. To be direct here, no, I mostly didn't like Moore's fight scenes, but that's not on Moore, that's on the behind-the-scenes folk. Wanna get real? NO BOND ACTOR EVER would last one minute in a low-level UFC cage match.

    So then as a stuntman you know that each fight scene is tailored to what an actor can and cannot do. I'm simply saying that those scenes are constructed that way to aid the audience to believe the character in everything they do, so when I list the impressive fights that some of the actors have had in their roles as Bond and the Moore film backers struggle to come up with a memorable fight, it;'s because the Moore fights just don't stand side by side with the other actor's capabilities in their respective fight scenes.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    @doubleohdad, I think we can say we're in full agreement here.
  • Posts: 1,146
  • Posts: 1,146
    By the way, it annoys me in films were both sides of a fight, either solo or a big fight, all use the same discipline, if that makes sense. It's as off both gangs learned Kung Fu from the same guy, which well, they did, lol. Be cool to use different fighting styles is my point.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    By the way, it annoys me in films were both sides of a fight, either solo or a big fight, all use the same discipline, if that makes sense. It's as off both gangs learned Kung Fu from the same guy, which well, they did, lol. Be cool to use different fighting styles is my point.

    Yes, I see your point but I guess that's just down to the choreographer and how good he is! :P
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    By the way, it annoys me in films were both sides of a fight, either solo or a big fight, all use the same discipline, if that makes sense.
    Totally.
    One thing I liked in TMWTGG- Moore straight-kicked that dude in the head, no real 'martial arts' about it.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    It's probably been said here already - but surely FYEO is Roger's best stint as 007...

    He is excellent in the 2nd half of OP, sure - but his measured and earnest performance throughout FYEO is right up there with Connery in FRWL , Dalton in LTK and craig in CR as the very best efforts by a Bond actor, if you ask me.

    But yes, OP & FYEO were Moore's peak as 007, from a performance pov, anyway.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Having watched FYEO and OP recently I think OP is the better film and that Roger's performance in OP is probably better as well.
  • Getafix wrote: »
    Having watched FYEO and OP recently I think OP is the better film and that Roger's performance in OP is probably better as well.

    I would agree with this.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Funny how perceptions change over time. The Bibi character in FYEO is utterly superfluous and inexplicably awful. I always knew this, but now it just seems even more glaring then ever. That character really brings down an otherwise pretty solid entry. Overall though I much prefer OP now. For me Spy and OP are Rog's two best entries, probably in that order.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Bibi's like Boris in that she was always meant to be annoying. Hence why she's rejected by Moore.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes, but why have 'annoying' characters like Bibi and Boris in the first place? How is it a good idea? At the end of the day, all they are is just that - annoying.
  • Posts: 1,146
    I simply can't take a Bond film where he dresses as a clown and yells like Tarzan seriously at all. FYEO is the better picture as for as Roger Moore films are concerned.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    I simply can't take a Bond film where he dresses as a clown and yells like Tarzan seriously at all. FYEO is the better picture as for as Roger Moore films are concerned.
    Better to fight Hockey assassins & score goals as you defeat them?
    ;))
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,368
    Haha yeah many Bond fans have that moment that you either roll with or roll your eyes at, especially the Moore era. But obviously Brosnan had them and Connery as well.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2014 Posts: 23,883
    Octopussy is better than FYEO for a few reasons, despite it's somewhat comedic tone which I thought was a little too much at times:

    1. FYEO's score is pretty bad indeed. Very dated and terribly un Bond like.. Even Marvin Hamlisch nailed the disco era better 4 years prior in 1977 with TSWLM than Bill Conti did in 1981 - and the era was already over by then anyway. John Barry's excellent work on Octopussy raised that film considerably. If only he had done FYEO it would have been an all time classic.

    2. Agreed that Bibi was horrendous. Almost as annoying as Jar Jar Binks. She should have been killed brutally mid-way (like Severine or Corrine) and that would have helped the movie.

    3. The villains were not good at all compared to what we were accustomed to. Kristatos was totally boring, as was Kriegler and Locque. They seemed somewhat cardboard like compared to the colourful villains from Moore's previous entries (MR & TSWLM). Khan, the circuis twins, Orlov & Gobinda were much better in OP

    4. the underwater scene in FYEO with the mini sub was so boring it's not funny. Again, compared to what had come before in MR & previous entries, this was badly shot and did not have any tension at all. I guess John Glen was still getting his feet wet, because he did a much better job directing OP

    5. The climax scene up on the mountain top was also super boring. The climb was good but the stuff at the top was a disgrace. The plane stuff at the end of OP was far more tense and superior

    6. I think Moore's performance was equally good in both FYEO and OP - but OP is more the Moore we know and love so seeing his seriousness in FYEO sort of came from left-field. There was nothing really in the plot to create that seriousness....if it was a CR type plot then maybe it would have more suited his serious demeanour.

    Now, where was FYEO better? The plot was more realistic perhaps. Carole Bouquet just blew me away with her beauty (despite her lack of acting prowess...that stare down at the camera after her parents were killed still gives me the chills all these years later) & the ski sequences were quite good.

    OP was just more energetic all round though, and suited Roger Moore.

    Which other Bond actor could have worn a clown suit & imitated Tarzan???? None of them. That's what made Roger great. He could do clown and he could do serious (parts of TSWLM and FYEO) too. Not only that, he arguably took Bond through 2 decades (he is the definitive 70's and to a lesser extent, 80's Bond. Connery is more associated with the 60's only). I don't think Roger Moore ever gave a bad performance. He was just too old for AVTAK. Even the great Connery was phoning it in on DAF & NSNA. Both Dalton and Craig (so far) have not given a bad performance either. At the risk of offending some, the less said about Brosnan, the better.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Haha yeah many Bond fans have that moment that you either roll with or roll your eyes at, especially the Moore era. But obviously Brosnan had them and Connery as well.

    The Connery era had less of them, as did the Lazenby and Craig films. That's the character, a tough gentleman/thug. Not an old, funny, silly comedian.

    No thanks.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    "Birdleson wrote:
    The Brosnan era never gave us a pigeon doing a double-take or a Tarzan yell, but I maintain that the puns and suggestive dialogue during that period were far more juvenile and insulting (and pervasive) than anything we had gotten with Moore.

    I agree with you Birdleson. The Brosnan era jokes were cringe inducing for the most part. I think it was just poor writing during that time. It only improved after CR when Haggis came on to assist the two goofs (Purvis and Wade). That's why I'm worried when these two clowns were recently brought back. Anyway, I'm sure Craig will ensure the lines are up to par for B24.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I maintain that the puns and suggestive dialogue during that period were far more juvenile and insulting (and pervasive) than anything we had gotten with Moore.
    That's because you cannot be objective where Brosnan is concerned. It's okay to just not-like an actor, but it's rather silly to try to justify that dislike by trashing a decade's worth of films. Connery was involved in extended firefights, Moore too, machine gun in hand, but somehow only Brosnan's movies suck.
    It' be better to just say, "I can't stand (insert Bond actor name), so it's hard for me to be objective.
    Of course, I don't need to; I don't have a severe dislike of any of them.
    :D
  • Posts: 11,425
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I've gone into detail elsewhere on here, but both FYEO and OP contain inexcusable silliness and inanity. The difference is that you could remove a relatively few bits from FYEO (Hockey scene, death of Blofeld, stupid parrot, Thatcher) and, regardless of Bibi, have a pretty strong Bond entry. WIth OP it's the opposite. I can pick out a handful of excellent aspects (The chase and killing of the clown-garbed 00 agent, Steven Berkoff as Gen. Orlof, the two short stories' inclusion, death of the twin by his own knife, I guess the diffusing of the bomb, Bond's shootout with Soviet soldiers and maybe a few other things), but they're mired in a whole lot of crap.

    Don't see it that way at all. OP is generally very solid, with a few stupid Moore-era bits. But it doesn't have a really annoying character like Bibi. The bits of OP that annoy me are relatively short and for me are relatively easily ignored.

    But I still like FYEO. Just think OP is better.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2014 Posts: 23,883
    t
  • Posts: 1,146
    The Tsunami sequence was the Bros' Waterloo, in my opinion. Thought DAD opened well and until the story went to Englad, was doing well. Then the ridiculous sword fight, and it all just falls off the rails after that. In visible car. Oi vey.

    I had forgotten about the Hockey sequence in FYEO though. Eesh.

    God, it was as if all of those films are filled with gags, puns, yucks and giggles.

    No thanks.
  • edited October 2014 Posts: 11,425
    We can all agree it went too far at times during Moore's tenure. I'd forgotten how much sillyness there is in FYEO - Moore's 'serious' film. I actually think overall OP is more serious in tone and definitely more thrilling than FYEO.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I think my avatar says it all about Roger Moore.

    Which other Bond actor could pull off my avatar as well as one holding down a gun with a stare down, aka Getaflix's Dalton avatar.

    Only Roger Moore.
  • Posts: 1,146
    I've read comments to that effect, and I've thought of re-watching it, but the clown stuff, the tarzan yell and the 'sit!' line just pop right into my head.

    I could have done more with the gentleman spy that Moore portrayed if it were not for the gags, good or bad.
  • Posts: 11,425
    If you don't get the clown scene and you think it's just another bit of sillyness, then you don't get OP. It's done in a totally different tone to the tarzan bit (which I think we can all agree is awful).

    It echoes the very serious death of 008 at the start. The tension is actually handled brilliantly. It's not supposed to be funny at all, and it isn't. It's one of the most genuinely thrilling and tense moments in the entire series. And Rog handles it perfectly.

    How people misunderstand OP. An underrated classic.

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