BOND POLLS 2015: Best Bond-films "GoldenEye" until "Skyfall" •••FINAL RESULTS•••

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm personally surprised and disappointed that TWINE is not even lower, to be quite frank....
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm personally surprised and disappointed that TWINE is not even lower, to be quite frank....

    You're kidding no? Why for goodness sake :-P???
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm personally surprised and disappointed that TWINE is not even lower, to be quite frank....

    You're kidding no? Why for goodness sake :-P???

    I know some recent posters on this thread, including yourself, like it a lot, so I'll go easy......my vehement criticisms are noted elsewhere.

    I'm just not a fan of this film at all. I think they got it all wrong. Too cheesy, with emo-Bond etc. It just rubs me all the wrong way.

    I much prefer DAD (although I know I'm probably in the minority on that) for entertainment value and for spectacle.

    I think EON had an interesting, revenge based idea, but executed it poorly here. I think they knew it, which is why they practically remade the story in a better way with SF.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Yes, some members on this forum view TWINE as a stodgy, melodramatic chore of a movie, instead on the flawed masterpiece it really is. ;-)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,410
    royale65 wrote: »
    Yes, some members on this forum view TWINE as a stodgy, melodramatic chore of a movie, instead on the flawed masterpiece it really is. ;-)

    I would be very interested to hear your reasons for regarding it as such.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Surely and briefly -

    I love this film. It gets a real hiding around here and that stings deep man, stings deep. I just don't why this film has such a bad reputation round these parts. Surely my sentimental feeling towards this film (it was my first time seeing Bond on the big screen), has blinded me to the obvious? 

    Pierce Brosnan excels as Bond turning in an elegantly lethal performance. Backing him up are the supreme and fascinating double act of Sophie Marceau and Robert Carlyle; Elektra is dead inside and Renard is dead, physically. You feel pity for Renard. He realises Elektra is playing him, but he does not mind; he goes even so far as sacrificing his remaining days to see her happy. 

    Marceau is smouldering and sensual, and for me, she shares a genuine chemistry with Brosnan. Elektra is an angel with a wing down, or so Bond thinks. Bond thinks he has found Tracy, but he finds Blofeld. Some people complain about the “quip”, “I never miss”, but I view it as an admittance of Bond’s heartbreaking choices, that Bond has to make.

    Now in light of objectivity, I shall point out some of the film's flaws...

    The more emotional nature of the script allows for some unintentional melodrama. (Primarily the scene between Bond and M in Scotland and the scene where Bond confronts Elektra.). I always imagined Bond being more still, in the two aforementioned scenes. Brosnan is too animated in those particular scenes. Fleming wrote that Bond is precise in his movements, decisive and economical. He wouldn’t have acted like that. Just my two cents worth.

    It sounds like I'm being too hard on The Brozz, but he's my childhood Bond, and he carries a special place in my heart. To balance out, then, here are some moments in which Pierce Brosnan is just so smegging cool;

    The ways he takes out the goons in the Banker's office
    Sorting out the heavy, gaining access to Zukovsky's office
    During the buzz-saw helicopter attack, Bond opens a trap-door, pushes a goon away, and fires straight up, through the floor, to a second goon.


    The other major weakness is the staid direction of Michael Apted - this is the first time I was not overly impressed by the director - even Lee Tamahori, in the first part of Die Another Day anyway, showed more drive and inventiveness. Also I can't believe that Apted didn't, in the two aforementioned scenes, call Brosnan to rein it in a bit. 

    Casting a cheerleader as a nuclear physicist was either very naïve or very cynical. Richards dies when she has to share the screen with Marceau. 

    However, the overall premise is inspired and all the Bondian attributes abound and in novel fashion. 
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    TWINE is definitely a better movie than QOS
    Extremist!
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I wonder how opinion on QoS will change in future. For me, there's nothing in it that got me hooked onto Bond as a child. If I had been born 15 years later and QoS was my first Bond I doubt I would've been swayed by the suave man, the cool gadgets, amazing stunts, etc. It would've just been another action movie to me
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2015 Posts: 23,883
    w2bond wrote: »
    I wonder how opinion on QoS will change in future. For me, there's nothing in it that got me hooked onto Bond as a child. If I had been born 15 years later and QoS was my first Bond I doubt I would've been swayed by the suave man, the cool gadgets, amazing stunts, etc. It would've just been another action movie to me

    I think quite highly of QoS, but you make a very good point here which I have not thought about before. QoS is indeed not the kind of film to get too many people 'hooked' onto the Bond franchise. Neither was LTK. So groundbreaking as these films are for this franchise, I agree that they are somewhat too atypical to draw in a lot of new fans, as you suggest.

    TSWLM, GE, or SF are more the kind of films to bring in a new flock of fans.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2015 Posts: 15,718
    @bondjames you're right, but LTK still has Q, Moneypenny, gadgets, the Bond theme full blast during action sequences, etc. I'm not criticising QOS as I really enjoyed it, but I agree it will be very interesting to see the opinions of hard-core fans, casual fans and the general audience in 10 or 20 years time. IMO QOS is the real odd bird in the franchise.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree @DaltonCraig007. There are definitely more of the Bond traditions in LTK vs. QoS, which to me is really a stripped down thriller featuring James Bond rather than an out and out Bond film.

    The point I was making though, which @w2bond got me thinking about, was whether anyone who saw QoS as their first Bond film would be drawn into the Bond franchise/world. I don't think many would. It's really not that kind of film.

    Some films just make you want to see the others in the franchise. For me, it was the Moore entries that got me into Bond and then I wanted to see them all. I was hooked. I think SF probably did that for a whole new generation of viewers, which probably bodes well for SP's success at the box office.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2015 Posts: 15,718
    I understand, @bondjames. Of all 23 (soon 24) Bond films, QOS is the one I would never show a first-timer to the franchise. It is a very good film, and is very much a 'Bond film', but IMO I have a hard time calling it a 'Bondian' film in the traditional sense. It is as far removed from the other 22 outings than it is removed to Bourne, Taken and other action films. It's a lot more 'Bond' than these action films, as QOS has a lot of class, epic scope, larger-than-life feel to it, but yet it has almost none of the traditional elements of the franchise. QOS is really tough to 'put in a box', as it were.

    And it is even tougher, as IMO Craig's performance in QOS is, ironically, one of the best performances from any of the Bond's.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited July 2015 Posts: 2,252
    I hate the quick edits like most people here. I'm not against them, but it's not for Bond. Bond is about glamour and style - Dr No established that. Shaky camera and quick edits does not make a glamorous experience - stuff the excuse of Bond still establishing himself as an agent.

    The writer's strike also hurt this film badly. The script is among the worst. While other Bond films suffer the same problem, there's so much repetition here. M says "I need to know that I can trust you", almost word for word from CR. So much for his developing character arc - it's back where it started. "Get in" is said no less than six times. The dialogue in the White interrogation scene seems clumsy.

    Title sequence is the worse, as is the song. Looks like a Bond knock off. GB at the end with a weird Q graphic enveloping it.

    Also, what's with the random references to previous films? Couldn't they think of their own iconic moments that they had to blatantly steal from GF and TSWLM (Sterling)? SF gave the series a welcome nod and wink with the cufflink scene and the "he's keen to get on" scene which is reminiscent of OP (got laugh from the audience)

    The only bit I enjoy is the Opera scene (until the arty gunfight) and the score accompanying it, and the score in generally while not Bondian is quite enjoyable.

    And as @DaltonCraig007 said, Craig's performance is stellar as usual.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I think if QOS was edited by Stuart Baird -CR and SF- then we got a whole different affair. But don't forget, it's mostly a choice from the director as well.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Curious though how editor Lee Smith is going to do this...
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    Curious though how editor Lee Smith is going to do this...

    Based on the strength of his previous work, I think it's in safe hands!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    QOS is a film only a serious Bond fan can love IMO. A casual viewer might enjoy it for what it is, but only a Bond Fan can read some of the great moments in it.
  • Posts: 11,425
    1. QoS
    2. CR
    3. SF/ TND
    5. GE
    6. TWINE
    7. DAD
  • edited July 2015 Posts: 11,425
    AceHole wrote: »
    6. TND - An enjoyable film, reminds me of a boring day at my grandparents where I'd watch it. The problem is that the first 1/4 of the film (disclusing the PTS which is one of the best) is very boring. The rest is great.

    Really? I would have thought it was the other way around. The last half or 1/3 of TND is where it starts to get boring for me. The first 60mins is Brosnan’s finest hour imo.

    Completely agree. I hated GE but TND actually made me think that EON might be able to make a decent Bond out of Brosnan. I enjoyed the first half of TND, although it then loses its way and becomes very routine.

    I had high expectations of TWINE but when it actually came out I realised that all my original views on Brosnan had been confirmed. He settled back into his lazy GE persona which was just amplified in DAD. It's as if he thought he was Sir Rog but without a modicum of the actual technical acting know how or presence. Sir Rog is not a 'great' actor but he does know how deliver a line, stand in front of a camera and provide some tonal differentiation between different scenes.

    Of all the post Dalton movies, the ones I've enjoyed most on first viewing were actually TND and QoS.
  • Posts: 4,617
    chrisisall wrote: »
    QOS is a film only a serious Bond fan can love IMO. A casual viewer might enjoy it for what it is, but only a Bond Fan can read some of the
    great moments in it.

    You've created a tautology which then undermines the argument (you have to be a Christian to see God etc), not a fair way of looking at things IMHO

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