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Eqaully though, there are plenty of films raved about at the time they were released that have slipped from consciousness. SF is a Bond movie though, so it's never going to completely go off the radar. Of course it's all opinion at this stage, but I just think 20, 30 years from now, SF won't be in most people's top 5s, as it seems to be quite consistently at the moment.
Let's check back on here in 2044? ;)
428 POINTS: "Casino Royale"
318 POINTS: "Skyfall"
290 POINTS: "GoldenEye"
166 POINTS: "The World Is Not Enough"
164 POINTS: "Tomorrow Never Dies"
158 POINTS: "Quantum Of Solace"
067 POINTS: "Die Another Day"
Let's do that @Getafix. Perhaps we differ on the issue that these Craig-films usher a new "Golden Era of Bond". BUT they certainly made discussing very interesting for me. So many different opinions.....wunderful. It also says something about the definition of a "Bond fan". Bond fans can disagree so much, and that's most likely because every film, and there are 23 (25), has its own "stamp". It makes the "Marvel fan" look rather dull hehe :-P.
Skyfall
Goldeneye
Quantum
WOrld
Tomorrow
(empty)
Die another day
Close call between the top two, and I'd rather watch a flawed Quantum than the other Bros Bonds.
Die is so bad there needs to be a space between it and the others.
Totally agree. I might not like SF much, but it is infinitely more interesting to discuss than any of the Brosnan films. I see it as a sort of glorious failure. That's one of the reasons I was so disappointed with it - there is so much in there that I approve of, in terms of what Mendes is trying to do, I just don't think it works very well. But don't get me wrong, SF is a much, much higher standard of failure than TWINE or DAD. It fails on multiple, interesting, discussable (is that a word?) levels, which is definitely preferable to CGI kite surfing.
Took the words out of my mouth. SF is a missed opportunity on so many levels. For me, it worked beautifully up to the introduction of Silva. I liked his character immensely, but the minute he showed up, the plot took a serious nosedive & became somewhat plain jane to me. Up until then it was building to something. I mean come on, revenge against M. Hadn't we covered that before, rather painfully, in a previous entry, with the same M no less??
That's what worries me about having name brand actors for supporting roles. They need to be given something to do to feel important. What's next....delving into Ralph Fiennes "M"'s time in Ireland as a child.
Very true @bondjames. And I largely share your view on SF. Although I also have my quibbles with the first half of SF *, I did actually feel it was building quite nicely up to the helicopters. I really enjoyed Silva's entrance and his speech and at that point thought Mendes had really got something going. It falls apart for me once the helicopters appear. From that moment on the plot goes out the window and the whole film just becomes an incoherent mess.
And yes, I have a similar concern about all the screen time the MI6 gang are eating up. As you say, SF feels like a re-hash of TWINE (with a bit of GE?), which was arguably the beginning of that whole idea of bringing M more front and central in the plots. It seems likely that having Fiennes on board could mean more of the same. You get the sense the stories are suffering in order to accommodate lots of not very interesting stuff about MI6.
*I am not convinced anyone can survive being shot twice, falling 200m, breaking multiple bones and then ending up unconscious in a river.
Now that we're back to the traditional office & the full team, hopefully we can get just get one good, clean spy story where he gets his dossier and goes out to do what he does best. They set it up that way at the end of SF, & it was hopeful after the headfake at the end of QoS (I thought the gunbarrel at the end of that movie meant we were over all the mommy issues), so they'd better deliver..
And on a related note, traditional gunbarrel (without CGI) at the beginning please. We've waited long enough.
I was feeling really positive after QoS. I seem to be one of the few that enjoyed the film and just felt things were generally heading in the right direction. SF just felt like a wrong turn for me. Sort of a pretentious fanboy movie, and not half as charming as it thinks it is.
Had been calling for the old office to come back for ages, so that was on thing I enjoyed in SF at least.
For me a good movie is not only about a terrific tightly written plot. If the actor's can't bring this plot with credibility into reality, then it doesn't work. I agree SF doesn't have the "tightly written, credible plot". But it did work tremendously on an emotional level.
I mean.....if you all talk like this, than there are 22 Bond films who had better plots. Seriously. And do we then say that, let's say, AVTAK or DAD, had the better plot? This invisible Aston Martin......the only thing they had to do is leave this stupid CGI out....and tada.....there's the credibility of the plot.
2. GoldenEye
3. Skyfall
4. Tomorrow Never Dies
5. Die Another Day
6. Quantum of Solace
7. The World Is Not Enough
Say what you like about A View to a Kill, but at least it's plot made sense (I'm sorry to jump on the bandwagon here, but I'll defend AVTAK wherever).
And only because of that AVTAK is a better Bond film than SF? :-).
Story wise, I think that A View to a Kill is stronger.
And I'd rather watch it other Skyfall any day of the week.
I suppose it didn't work for me on that broad thematic and emotional level either - so I was doubly let down. That's why I can't overlook the awful story and plot.
But I agree with @MayDayDiVicenzo. Regardless of what you think of AVTAK as a film overall, the plot of relatively coherent and contains its own internal logic.
I think there is a confusion sometimes that arise around this dicussion of the SF plot. Of course many of the Bond films have fantastical, campy, sometimes OTT story lines - that goes with the territory. But they generally sustain some internal logic. Even DAD makes sense, even if it is total garbage. SF sort of gives up on making sense about half way through, after which it's almost impossible to understand why any one acts the way they do or to justify any of their actions. As countless others have said, Bond's actions in the second half of SF suggest someone who is not just out of control, but also utterly inept - logically his actions would have led to court martial, imprisonment, disgrace - but the film ends up with him inexplicably as hero.
Any way, old ground, much travelled.
SF is probably one to agree to disagree on these days. The dividing lines are well drawn. Those who love it can't understand what all the criticism is about, and those who don't think it's all that, don't get why everyone else is so in love with it.
2. Casino Royale
3. Quantum of Solace
4. Goldeneye
5. Tomorrow Never Dies
6. The World is Not Enough
7. Die Another Day
2. GoldenEye (5/23)
3. Skyfall (6/23)
4. Tomorrow Never Dies (13/23)
5. Quantum of Solace (15/23)
6. The World is Not Enough (16/23)
7. Die Another Day (21/23)
2. CR
3. TWINE
4. TMD
5. SF
6. DAD
7. QoB
2. Casino Royale
3. GoldenEye
4. Skyfall
5. Tomorrow Never Dies
6. The World is Not Enough
7. Die Another Day
http://i.cubeupload.com/eHI3Zj.jpg
2. GoldenEye
3. Quantum of Solace
4. Skyfall
5. The World is Not Enough
6. Tomorrow Never Dies
7. Die Another Day
Tell me why please :-). Above, horizontally, all voting forummembers so far. Vertically, on the left, all the allocated points. 1st place gets 15 points, 2nd place gets 10 points, 3rd place gets 7 points, 4th = 5 points, 5th = 3 points, 6th = 2 points, 7th = 1 point. 47 members have voted so far. Times the points you can win...and there you have the totals.....so far.
The ratings are as follows, as per that chart:
1. Casino Royale - 503
2. Skyfall - 365
3. Goldeneye - 344
4. Quantum of Solace - 191
5. Tomorrow Never Dies - 187
6. The World is Not Enough - 183
7. Die Another Day - 76
Just to show you the entire breakdown.....it's democratic no :-).