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How TLD came so close to being the quintessential 007 movie

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  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    sirseanisbond wrote: »
    Goldfinger and Thunderball are quintessential Bond movies. If you think that TLD is even CLOSE to being on that same level, you should reassess your Bond fandom . . .

    Thunderball is a terrible, terrible film.
  • dinovelvetdinovelvet
    Posts: 709
    Regarding Koskov, his "end" was handled poorly IMHO. Why didn't he die on the airfield? He crashes his jeep straight into a plane coming the other way...and lives. There would have been a certain poetry in him dying in desperate pursuit of the plane, which represented the culmination of his entire (insanely elaborate) plan.

    Instead he shows up at the end for an unsatisyfing moment where he's swiftly arrested, thus securing his trivia spot as the only main Bond villain to survive (if we're not counting the reoccurring Blofelds). Has EON ever talked about this? It feels like a last minute script change having Koskov survive like that.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    the only main Bond villain to survive
    In a 'diplomatic bag'? I doubt it.
    :))
  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    Posts: 832
    dominicgreene wrote: »
    sirseanisbond wrote: »
    Goldfinger and Thunderball are quintessential Bond movies. If you think that TLD is even CLOSE to being on that same level, you should reassess your Bond fandom . . .

    Thunderball is a terrible, terrible film.

    Thunderball is good, but flawed, yet nowhere near terrible. TLD is better than it. Goldfinger beats it though, without a doubt.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    Thunderball is good, but flawed, yet nowhere near terrible. TLD is better than it.
    I would agree 100%.
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    Goldfinger beats it though, without a doubt.
    It does, but that doesn't stop me from liking TLD a whole lot more. GF was lightning in a bottle; it was far better than it had any right to be. Alchemy- who can explain it. ;)
  • dinovelvetdinovelvet
    Posts: 709
    chrisisall wrote: »
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    the only main Bond villain to survive
    In a 'diplomatic bag'? I doubt it.
    :))

    Yeah, but for all intents and purposes, he leaves the film alive. Koskov being Koskov, would probably weasel out of it somehow.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    Yeah, but for all intents and purposes, he leaves the film alive.
    I'm okay with it- it was different.
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    Koskov being Koskov, would probably weasel out of it somehow.
    Nah, that weasel had reached the end of his maze.
    ;)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I always thought the diplomatic bag line was a suggestion, that it would
    In fact be a " Body bag" ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    DrGorner wrote: »
    I always thought the diplomatic bag line was a suggestion, that it would in fact be a " Body bag" ;)
    Yep.
    ;)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the first half of TLD is arguably the best hour of 'Bond' of all time.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    RC7 wrote: »
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the first half of TLD is arguably the best hour of 'Bond' of all time.
    Yes, it was great.
    I have to say, back in '87 the Mujahideen connection kind of offended my political sensibilities and I found it difficult to really embrace the movie, but now I see it for the shady/grey business that it was, and I accept the 'enemy of my enemy' concept much better. For entertainment purposes, anyway.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    The 3 greatest 'hour of Bond' (IMO) : 1st hour of DN, 1st hour of TLD, Montenegro segment of CR.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Great score, Dalton is excellent, the plot is very Fleming, the pre-title is thrilling, the Aston scenes are iconic. Bar Necros, the villans are limp and the main weak point.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    AceHole wrote: »
    sirseanisbond wrote: »
    Goldfinger and Thunderball are quintessential Bond movies. If you think that TLD is even CLOSE to being on that same level, you should reassess your Bond fandom . . .

    If we are going down that road, I suggest you reassess your knowledge of the early Bond films, as From Russia With Love can easily be considered more 'quintessential' & 'classic' than Thunderball.

    And Goldfinger? Give me a break! That's the 'quintessential' lowest common-denominator 'best Bond'.

    Be original. Buy an edge.

    Hop on board for a full 15 rounds with AceHole b-(

    I concur with Ace Hole. The first 4 Connerys are brilliant. However, anyone who loves Fleming, loves TLD.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Bar Necros, the villans are limp and the main weak point.
    What? Bond never has to deal with an occasional dope for a villain once in a while? Whitaker was a dousche ex-non military American a-hole with connections, and Koskov was a slimy traitor entrepreneur- both in a game over their heads with the likes of Bond. I found it interesting & enjoyable. Especially since his next foe would be one of the best and most formidable in the series.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RC7 wrote: »
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the first half of TLD is arguably the best hour of 'Bond' of all time.

    Dont want to piss on your chips but two words - Rosika Miklos.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the first half of TLD is arguably the best hour of 'Bond' of all time.

    Dont want to piss on your chips but two words - Rosika Miklos.

    That's roughly 25 minutes in, standard second beer time. By the time I get back from the fridge it's like it never happened.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited May 2015 Posts: 5,767
    I´m surprised that noone complains about Felix Leiter in TLD. But that´s probably because the performance was so traumatising everyone´s conscience is in denial ;-).

    The only things TLD could have used was a better Felix Leiter and a better final confrontation. Anytime I watch the movie I enjoy Joe Don Baker a lot for his goofiness, but he could have had some more threatening moments. Plus, already the first time I watched TLD in the cinema as a teenager, I found it very strange that crack shot James Bond isn´t able to shoot Whittaker in the belly or leg instead of repeatedly firing onto Whittaker´s armor. And then the column barely leans onto Whittaker, and just like that kills him. That was a bit poor execution.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Know what? NOTHING bugs me in TLD. After balloon Kananga, the slide whistle, the fish drop, "Here's to us", a disco score, the Tarzan yell and the Beach Boys, finally a movie without one eye-rolling moment.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited May 2015 Posts: 15,723
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Know what? NOTHING bugs me in TLD. After balloon Kananga, the slide whistle, the fish drop, "Here's to us", a disco score, the Tarzan yell and the Beach Boys, finally a movie without one eye-rolling moment.

    IMO, TLD and LTK are the 2 'perfect' movies in the franchise. I can not find a single fault in them or anything that annoys me or that I don't like. All other 21 movies, even my favorite (TMWTGG), I can find atleast one element I'd like to change (the slide whistle, in the instance of TMWTGG).
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    There is still a bit of silliness in the PTS of TLD - think shoots of monkeys running about. Barry's music also seems to be in the Roger Moore style. If as if the filmmakers were saying goodbye to that particular era in the PTS, before moving on.

    Still, everything up to the Airbase section is smegging perfect.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Know what? NOTHING bugs me in TLD. After balloon Kananga, the slide whistle, the fish drop, "Here's to us", a disco score, the Tarzan yell and the Beach Boys, finally a movie without one eye-rolling moment.

    IMO, TLD and LTK are the 2 'perfect' movies in the franchise. I can not find a single fault in them or anything that annoys me or that I don't like. All other 21 movies, even my favorite (TMWTGG), I can find at least one element I'd like to change (the slide whistle, in the instance of TMWTGG).

    You are a fan of exceptional taste, sir! =D>
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Know what? NOTHING bugs me in TLD. After balloon Kananga, the slide whistle, the fish drop, "Here's to us", a disco score, the Tarzan yell and the Beach Boys, finally a movie without one eye-rolling moment.

    IMO, TLD and LTK are the 2 'perfect' movies in the franchise. I can not find a single fault in them or anything that annoys me or that I don't like. All other 21 movies, even my favorite (TMWTGG), I can find at least one element I'd like to change (the slide whistle, in the instance of TMWTGG).

    You are a fan of exceptional taste, sir! =D>

    I love Dalton and his films. However, Bonds scruffy dress sence and poor choice of american hire car (007 would do either) are counted as flaws in LTK. They are the best films compared with the 70's, 80's and 90's though. Near perfect Bonds are FRWL, DN, TB & CR in my book though.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    I liked TLD and it was a good film. My only complaints are
    1. The Moore -cartoonish elements , ie the cello as a bobsleigh, the "salt corrosion" line.
    2. Villains . I think Krabbe is a superb actor but the script made him too "lovable". His character is too polar different to be beleivable. This man tried to have his innocent naive girlfriend killed to further his evil ambitions, yet he plays a big lovable teddy bear. He needed more edginess.
    Joe Don Baker is a good actor and would have been a good villain but he does not receive enough screentime and he comes off as an overgrown child playing with men's toys.

    Aside from these observations, I liked the movie. Dalton is one of my favorite Bonds and I just wish they had tossed the Moore influences aside altogether. Audiences do not need to be "eased into" a new direction. Give audiences credit for more brains. Trust me the general public can handle it. The problem is with the asshole critics.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited November 2015 Posts: 6,393
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    "Getafix wrote:
    I thought Maryam d'Abo was good. Agreed, she doesn't set the screen on fire, but her relationship with Dalts is very convincing. One of the better Bond girls IMO. In a way, the fact she isn't just eye candy helps the film.

    You're probably right. She played well off Tim. I just found her a bit plain physically. I think Dalton deserved someone a little more alluring (i.e. Scorupco). That's a deeply personal opinion of course (and one that is likely not shared by others), but it did influence my view (somewhat subconsciously) of the movie.

    Krabbe can be good. He was good in the Fugitive. You're right though - he played it for laughs, as did Baker. Maybe as a counterpoint to Tim's straight portrayal of Bond

    Was never a fan of Scorupco - I find her performance way more bland than D'Abo's.

    I assume that when they cast D'Abo they were looking for a Natasha Kinski lookalike. They may even have tried to cast Kinski, for all I know - she was one of the 'it' girls of the moment in 87. I think Kinski would have brought the required level of alluringness to the screen.

    But as I say, I think D'Abo's performance is actually pretty good.

    I think Dalton and d'Abo have some of the best chemistry in the entire series. It's palpable. Certainly more than Craig and Seydoux have.
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Something I like about TLD (and it applies to LTK as well) is that the movie feels a bit 'small', kind of like a Fleming novel. It's cozy, like Connery's first two. No big world threat to head off at the last second or the like.

    That's because it's heavily inspired by FRWL.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    echo wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    "Getafix wrote:
    I thought Maryam d'Abo was good. Agreed, she doesn't set the screen on fire, but her relationship with Dalts is very convincing. One of the better Bond girls IMO. In a way, the fact she isn't just eye candy helps the film.

    You're probably right. She played well off Tim. I just found her a bit plain physically. I think Dalton deserved someone a little more alluring (i.e. Scorupco). That's a deeply personal opinion of course (and one that is likely not shared by others), but it did influence my view (somewhat subconsciously) of the movie.

    Krabbe can be good. He was good in the Fugitive. You're right though - he played it for laughs, as did Baker. Maybe as a counterpoint to Tim's straight portrayal of Bond

    Was never a fan of Scorupco - I find her performance way more bland than D'Abo's.

    I assume that when they cast D'Abo they were looking for a Natasha Kinski lookalike. They may even have tried to cast Kinski, for all I know - she was one of the 'it' girls of the moment in 87. I think Kinski would have brought the required level of alluringness to the screen.

    But as I say, I think D'Abo's performance is actually pretty good.

    I think Dalton and d'Abo have some of the best chemistry in the entire series. It's palpable. Certainly more than Craig and Seydoux have.

    To be fair, it's a different kind of chemistry because he's a different kind of Bond.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited December 2015 Posts: 7,221
    People don't seem to appreciate the villains in this films, I don't fully agree with that actually.

    I can see Fleming write a Whitaker. An ugly and noisy fellow who is obsessed with history's most cruel war criminals. He even has a bloody pantheon of them.

    Koskov on the other hand is quite charismatically portrayed by Jeroen Krabbé. I love his delivery: "Duty has no sweethearts."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Correct title of this thread: TLD is the quintessential 007 movie. :))
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Correct title of this thread: TLD is the quintessential 007 movie. :))

    Not everyone has seen the (day)light yet, Chris :>
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I'd agree if it wasn't for the way it flags a little in Afghanistan, and the disappointing climax with Wade.

    Still one of my favourites though.
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