It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
No but to claim the entire movie was terrible over said shots feels like it to me.
There is reasonable analysis then there is nitpicking.
GoldenEye was the first Bond film I ever saw. It cemented how a Bond movie should be in terms of Style, Characters and Action.
On a technical level. Tomorrow Never Dies is even better. Though I find Carver to be a weaker villain than Trevelyan. Both films excel and are fun entertaining romps.
When I was much younger. GE and TND always flip flopped on my number one spot. Both are very good movies. GoldenEye was the last film of Cubby's era. (Even though he didn't produce it, his fingerprints were all over it, and you can see it.) It's a film that has a lot of good memories attached to it. It's what got me into Bond in the first place. For me, that's why I like it better.
I mean, okay cool you liked it better, but to state that I am bashing is kinda unfair, since I'm backing up what I say with specific pieces of info.
Don't you like GE more because of nostalgic reasons then? I mean, in part?
Anyway, about the characters? The only Bond girl from these two Bond films I really liked was Teri Hatcher as Paris Carver. Yes, her role wasn't too big. But WHAT she did with that minor role of "villain's mistress" was in my opinion exceptional. TND was the only Bond film of the two (GE and TND) that gave the Bond girl a believable background history.
Carver's emotions for me were way more believable than Scorupco's Natalia. Call the accent "nostalgic", but I think Carver was the only "American" Bond girl that really worked for me. It started all the way when she gave Bond this lovely slap in her face and then that one-liner "How 'bout the words "I'll be right back" ".
Not only that, I think compared to Natalia, Xenia and álso Wai Lin, I think Paris Carver was the classiest Bond girl. She oozed charisma on screen. On top of that, she slowly evolves from a cynical bitchy "Desperate Housewife" into an ally of Bond. In the end, I was saddened that she was killed.
For me personally, I don't like a Bond girl to kick ass. I want a Bond girl to be 200%....and here it comes.....WOMAN. A suave, elegant feminin character. A girl who doesn't have the balls in her muscles....but in her brains.
The reason in general that I find TND nicer to watch than GE, has to do with the villain's plot. In today's geopolitical worlds, we have seen how quickly wars can be initiated if one person starts tampering with borderlines and territorial integrity. Then you have Alec, who's out on a revenge and wants to destroy......ehm....cough.....the United Kingdom :-P.
Sorry, for me you EITHER destroy the world and create havoc in a way that actually can be done by today's standards (stealing nuclear missiles....well, we see what Islamic State is stealing from the USA no? It's at least more realistic than a EMP satellite), OR you TRULY go all the way with revenge and have a look at Silva in SF. Because, with all do respect for GoldenEye, Alec comes across as an unbelievable pussy compared to Silva :-).
Moreover.....Alec didn't work for me as a villain. I must give you that the fist fight at the final part of the film was marvellous. But the lines he was uttering.....it didn't do it for me. Now I'm not saying that Elliot Carver was a better villain. Not at all. But both Elliot and Alec didn't do it for me. The only Brosnan-villain that really worked for me was a female: Elektra King.
Having written all this.....I go for TND. Ooowh, and on top of that, that car park chase for me is just way more fun :-). A tank for me....is just too much, too loud, too bombastic. I can see a member of The Expendables picking a tank and destroy London with it. But not Bond. He uses a car.
One last thing. I can't put any of the Brosnan films in my TOP 7 ranking. TWINE gets into my TOP 10 narrowly. But in general, quality-wise, the look and feel.....and the entire atmosphere, I find GE and TND nothing more than formularic Bond-twin-brothers. Nice succesful Bond films, but as standalone films rather bland.
My arguments weren't even directed at you. You've given fair assessments over both movies and I respect that.
RE: the nostaligia - yes, partly I prefer GE because it's a throwback Bond to some extent. After LTK (which I loved) pushing the envelope so much, I liked the traditional nature of GE including cold war references. However, I liked it on so many other levels as well, as already mentioned.
I agree with you that the idea behind Paris Carver was interesting. It's in the execution and choice of star that I have a problem with, and found unbelievable.
A lot of this is personal however, so we're all going to disagree, but I found Teri Hatcher just too generic a star to be playing a woman Bond has such feelings for. I just didn't buy it for some reason (maybe because I knew her as Lois). I also found her performance very flat and nonchalant. She was more appealing to me lying dead on that bed than she was alive. As I said, it's a personal thing. It was also the first time they started putting these famous (relatively speaking) American actresses in roles, something which I disliked and something that hit a nadir with the horrendous DAD.
I was quite attracted to Scorupco's Natalya, and perhaps that's clouding my judgement of her portrayal. She's my kind of girl. Period.
I agree on the plot being more topical, much more inventive, and more interesting in TND. However, the much lauded SF also has a simple revenge plot, like GE, as you've already noted.
At the end of the day, as mentioned, GE works for me due to characterizations (certainly not as well done as SF by any means, but still very good for me compared to TND, TWINE or DAD.....that's why I remember it fondly from the Brosnan era). It's also cartoonish, but not in a terrible way (like Mr. f'ing Kill or that loser Bullion....that, for me was just taking the damn piss!.....).. For me, the balance between serious and cartoonish was just right. Boris was a clown, but I found him endearing. The lines were 'comic book like' no doubt, but I remember them all fondly to this day, because they were delivered so brilliantly and with euro trash accents. "Stop! Youuuuu'll blooooew the gas tanks!"
This movie just has charisma & style oozing out of it and it all comes from the supporting cast. Not the sets, not the effects, not the puny budget, certainly not the plot, and not Brosnan (although he looks good and didn't mess up, all he had to do was show up with the charisma on display from the others). I just wish Campbell had his CR budget for GE. Then he would have created a masterpiece to rival the best Bond IMO.
I'm not saying GE is without flaws. It has many, as has been noted here. However, to this day, I just love watching it, due to its style (in Monaco particularly and in the finale on the satellite) and the characters. Serra's score also fits that movie perfectly, no matter what else you may think of it...
That's a fair note, yet the action stuff in TND was pretty simple and ineffective, whereas there's a ton of stuff in GE that's intense and far more believable. FOr example, in TND the Carver thugs walk up to Bond and tell him, hey can you come with us?, and he looks at them suspiciously, and Bros even says uh-huh, yet he STILL lets himself get led downstairs and into that completely fake-looking fight, where they are pulling their blows with the baseball bats with the David Arnold mucis working hard to make us believe an unrealistic fight. Ugh.
Compare that with just the opening sequence in GE, which is pretty effective and even one guy getting shot by Uromov is felt by the audience.
One moment from GE I love is Bond briefly scrapping with the thug on the Manticore. Short, hard hitting, effective.
Thanks for bringing that up.
The fight with STamper is just completely disappointing.
Spoiler alert!
;)
I guess.
Not too sure what you're getting at there, mate.
And what's with all these "well, the people in MY cinema so and so" comments?
I agree that the fight with Stamper is extremely underwhelming. But it is not messy at all.
The machine gun finale (I like the cramped hallway bits, worth mentioning) is a little tedious, but it isn't messy at all.
:-??
Die Hard and Predator are incredible action pictures that nearly killed off the Bond Franchise.