Would You Consider Goldeneye the Start of the "Modern" Bond Era?

13

Comments

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Getafix wrote: »
    Goldeneye was the start of a very disappointing era.
    For you... :-w
  • Posts: 15,234
    Murdock wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Goldeneye was the start of a very disappointing era.
    For you... :-w

    I love GE, but the whole era did disappoint. And partially because GE was such a big success, regardless of what one thinks of the movie.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.
  • Posts: 15,234
    Murdock wrote: »
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.

    Not money wise, but creatively wise yes. They went by the number far too often. Stamper for instance was so generic as a henchman it was not even funny.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.

    Not money wise, but creatively wise yes. They went by the number far too often. Stamper for instance was so generic as a henchman it was not even funny.
    Aren't most henchmen Generic anyway? Hanz, Gobinda, Gunther. Pretty generic to me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    You put it well @Ludovico. There was definitely a tick the box generic approach to the Brosnan era which became a little obvious to me by the end. I think this may have something to do with Babs and Wilson not knowing what direction they wanted to take, or just not being confident enough about what Bond was all about......almost as if they felt if they did not check every box in every film, then the public would rebel.

    I liked GE personally, but I agree that there were tons of cliches thrown into that movie. For me, it was refreshing to see them in GE again after the long 6 yr absence, because of all the pretenders to the throne in the meanwhile (including True Lies). It was as if Bond was reclaiming his turf, and the cliches were a part of that. Also I enjoyed seeing it in GE because LTK was to some extent devoid of them, and at the time was a little jarring for me.

    However, towards the end of Brosnan's run they did became a little tiresome.

    In a way that's why I don't think they can ever go make to making generic Bond films any more. There will always have to be some depth....some maturity to the characterisations.....the Craig era has just changed everything and after all the effort they've taken to try to add meat to the bones, I can't see them throwing it all away.

    Moreover, all the major action movies (including all the Marvel/DC ones) have deep personal angles to them, so EON is likely to follow accordingly.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,266
    This question is essentially unanswerable. First of all, define 'modern'. LALD was modern in that it brought the sound of the youth culture to the Bonds. TSWLM was modern in that it was the first Bond film not produced by Harry Saltzmann. In some sense TLD was modern by clearly breaking with the Connery - Lazenby - Moore age continuity. GE marked a new era by default: after a gap of six years, with a new team of producers, a new 007, a female M and the post-cold war stage, a score full of electronics, ... And then there's CR. All kinds of modern in the Bonds. ;-)
  • Posts: 1,146
    Murdock wrote: »
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.

    Dissapointment from a story standpoint. Only GE is a good story. The others waned as they went along.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    Murdock wrote: »
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.

    Dissapointment from a story standpoint. Only GE is a good story. The others waned as they went along.

    Debatable as I like Brosnan's first three films equally. Die Another Day not so much.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Murdock wrote: »
    Debatable as I like Brosnan's first three films equally.
    Give in to the hate, boy, and you will be powerful in the Dark Side!

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,362
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Debatable as I like Brosnan's first three films equally.
    Give in to the hate, boy, and you will be powerful in the Dark Side!

    Hate on Brosnan? Are you trying to get me banned for trolling? =))

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    Murdock wrote: »
    Hate on Brosnan? Are you trying to get me banned for trolling? =))
    Right?
    ;)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,723
    There seem to be a lot of hate lately, particularly on Brosnan and Moore. While I understand that some of the takes and style on Bond may not please to everyone, can I just take the good spirit of the Christmas period to say I think all Bond fans should be blessed that we have had 6 total legends for Bond, Connery - Lazenby - Moore - Dalton - Brosnan - Craig? When I read the suggested casting for past films, I can't help but think we dodged some big bullets. None of the 6 Bond's ever insulted the franchise or behaved like idiots. Yes Brosnan was angry to be let go, but he's passed it now, and that video of him playing GE007 on the N64 was one of the most awesome things I have ever seen. Yes Connery has always been angry, but his anger seems mostly directed at Cubby and deep down I am sure he is still proud of what he has achieved and of this huge franchise, and I suspect he may check out the new entries in his Bahamas home. I really think we should all be happy we have had 6 wonderful actors and human beings to have played our dear secret agent James Bond, and that all of them are still alive to this day, 52 years on since DN.
  • Posts: 15,234
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.

    Not money wise, but creatively wise yes. They went by the number far too often. Stamper for instance was so generic as a henchman it was not even funny.
    Aren't most henchmen Generic anyway? Hanz, Gobinda, Gunther. Pretty generic to me.

    Hans was a non entity, a cheap clone of Grant with a rubbish name (I find Hinx as a name far better, actually), but Gobinda was actually quite good, if only because of his different ethnic background. Overall the Moore era was quite good with henchmen, Jaws turning into a clown notwithstanding. Yes, they had a few Grant clones, but they tried to stay diverse. Brosnan was far less inventive: Grant clone, evil businessmen as villains, it was commonplace after commonplace.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    I don't understand this comment about hate. I have hardly seen anyone hating on here regarding anything. I've only seen good, hard core, seasoned debate and different points of view. It is possible to personally like something and yet be critical of it. As an example I really like GE (it's in my top 10 and possible top 5) and yet I can be openly critical of that film's many flaws. The same goes for SF which I liked immensely.

    The recent discussions on this particular thread are not personal to Brosnan. They are about Bond movies during the period from 1995 to 2002, which happened to star Brosnan.

    The contention is that they were tick the box, generic vehicles for the most part that somewhat insulted the audience by going through the motions with lots of cliches and no clear direction.

    I'm all open to hearing counterarguments. In fact I encourage it, to stimulate proper debate. I don't see where this talk of hate comes from.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2014 Posts: 15,723
    @bondjames Maybe it's just me but in several threads I've seen several members complaining strongly to Moore (doubleohdad) and Brosnan (Getafix).

    As I said I also really like GE but can see the not-so-good stuff about it. It's just that I see people bringing up only the bad stuff in every thread. I've even seen complaints about Brosnan brought up in the Dalton appreciation thread, of all places.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    @bondjames Maybe it's just me but in several threads I've seen several members complaining strongly to Moore (doubleohdad) and Brosnan (Getafix).

    No, that's true you're right. Some members have their hangups as we all do, and no doubt we all have our favourites.

    I actually like some members coming back again and again with their negatives though because it actually stimulates counterarguments and different points of view, as it should. If a valid counterargument can't be made, then perhaps the original argument is correct, despite the personal dislike that might have brought it on initially.

    I would prefer to go that route than shut down discussion.

    I get your point though.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    'Hate' was maybe a strong word, I agree. But yes of course it's a discussion forum, all views are welcome. I guess maybe negative comments seem more 'repetitive' than positive comments. So I'm sorry for the confusion.
  • A new Bond, a new MoneyPenny, a new M, a new political situation, why not? In some way it was also a reboot.
  • Posts: 9,860
    Is it weird that after watching most of the franchise (except for licence to kill and goldeneye) I have respect and love all 6 bond actors.
  • Posts: 15,234
    A new Bond, a new MoneyPenny, a new M, a new political situation, why not? In some way it was also a reboot.

    Yet they made important efforts to keep every single element, essential or not, in the franchise, sometimes to the point of recycling.
  • Posts: 1,146
    bondjames wrote: »
    @bondjames Maybe it's just me but in several threads I've seen several members complaining strongly to Moore (doubleohdad) and Brosnan (Getafix).

    No, that's true you're right. Some members have their hangups as we all do, and no doubt we all have our favourites.

    I actually like some members coming back again and again with their negatives though because it actually stimulates counterarguments and different points of view, as it should. If a valid counterargument can't be made, then perhaps the original argument is correct, despite the personal dislike that might have brought it on initially.

    I would prefer to go that route than shut down discussion.

    I get your point though.

    I agree with all of this.

    Roger Moore is a soft, kind, gentle, warm, fuzzy Bond.

    Ugh.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Well, we all know about Matt Helm's constant Skyfall bashing, and look where he ended! ;))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    What exactly did Helm do wrong? I saw him on here engaging in active discussion like the rest of us. If he had a different opinion or a strongly held opinion on something, what's wrong with that? He's entitled to it. Was he rude or something? I haven't seen him on here for a while.

  • edited December 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.

    Not money wise, but creatively wise yes. They went by the number far too often. Stamper for instance was so generic as a henchman it was not even funny.
    Aren't most henchmen Generic anyway? Hanz, Gobinda, Gunther. Pretty generic to me.

    Hans was a non entity, a cheap clone of Grant with a rubbish name (I find Hinx as a name far better, actually), but Gobinda was actually quite good, if only because of his different ethnic background. Overall the Moore era was quite good with henchmen, Jaws turning into a clown notwithstanding. Yes, they had a few Grant clones, but they tried to stay diverse. Brosnan was far less inventive: Grant clone, evil businessmen as villains, it was commonplace after commonplace.

    Yeah Hans is a rubbish name. Can't think of any cool movie villains called Hans ;)

    17.jpg
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,348
    Murdock wrote: »
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.

    Dissapointment from a story standpoint. Only GE is a good story. The others waned as they went along.

    The good story point about GE is debatable when one considers the motivation of Alec Trevelyan in GE.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.

    Dissapointment from a story standpoint. Only GE is a good story. The others waned as they went along.

    The good story point about GE is debatable when one considers the motivation of Alec Trevelyan in GE.

    The BASIS of a good story perhaps? I will admit his motivations are kind of muddled.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2014 Posts: 18,348
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    It could hardly be considered disappointing when all of Brosnan's movies made good money.

    Dissapointment from a story standpoint. Only GE is a good story. The others waned as they went along.

    The good story point about GE is debatable when one considers the motivation of Alec Trevelyan in GE.

    The BASIS of a good story perhaps? I will admit his motivations are kind of muddled.

    Yes, I agree with your point that it was the BASIS for a good story - with Trevelyan he is remembering events that happened fifteen years before he was even born!
  • Posts: 11,189
    One could argue that his parents lived in exile for years after WW2 and had Trevelyan during that time.

    But the anger finally consumed Trevelyan's father when he was still fairly young,
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,348
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    One could argue that his parents lived in exile for years after WW2 and had Trevelyan during that time.

    But the anger finally consumed Trevelyan's father when he was still fairly young,

    Yes, but why did Alec's father kill his mother and then himself so many years after the "shame" of the British betrayal of their Lienz Cossack ilk? That's the clincher for me.
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