Is 'A View to a Kill' in need of a critical reappraisal?

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,146
    The defense of some of these poorly-rated Moore films amuses me. There's that closed list of cringe-worthy moments in the series, and most of them are from Moore films.
    The pictures were generally bad and deserve their status as such.
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    The defense of some of these poorly-rated Moore films amuses me. There's that closed list of cringe-worthy moments in the series, and most of them are from Moore films.
    The pictures were generally bad and deserve their status as such.

    Agree they are not Oscar material, and in many ways bad movies, but they are entertaining and the truth is that it is thanks for Roger amusing so many during so many many years that .. maybe .. we still can be amused by (a diferent kind) of Bond movies.
    Personally i love them all, shitty or not.

  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited December 2014 Posts: 5,080
    You can't give any kind of contructive comment, and you don't seem able to discuss this film outside of the PTS, so you (yet again...) resort to ratings and reviews.

    People are entitled to their opinions, but you can't use them as FACT.

    If you think there other faults in the film, then DISCUSS them.

    The lead is too old for the female lead, the villains are cartoonish and outright silly, (I remember everyone in the audience groaning when mayday picked up someone OVER HER HEAD).

    Really. You could remember the audience "groaning" (why would this scene receive "groans"?), but had trouble remembering whether or not AVTAK featured the Beach Boys song?

    Okay.

    For me, Max Zorin is the perfect Bond villain, excellently portrayed by the Oscar-winning actor Max Zorin. He truly is the most psychotic Bond villain to have braced the screen. He has some incredible dialogue with his costars and Bond himself- "anybody else want to drop out?".

    Grace Jones is completely wacky and fun to watch as Mayday. My favourite character from the series. Such a colourful, feisty and at times threatening character. Her death is also a brilliant scene.

    Yes, perhaps Moore is a little too old for Roberts. But their relationship does not turn sexual until the very last scene of the film. Again, doesn't bother me.

    The fire truck chase is a well crafted set piece by the excellent action director John Glen. The scene where the persuing police cars get trapped at he top of the vertical draw bridge is a spectacle.

    It's no surprise to see that RT is mentioned...YET AGAIN! Are you some kind of ambassador for this website?

    The defense of some of these poorly-rated Moore films amuses me.

    Yes, well it would! It seems you can't comprehend that people like Bond films outside of your own little bubble.

    You don't like the Moore films. Plenty other people do. Accept it, and move on.




    I'll reiterate this point: IMO, the most cringeworthy scene from a Bond movie excluding anything from DAD, is Sean Connery getting dressed up as a Japansese fisherman (and unlike the Beach Boys scene, this scene lasts for a fair stretch of the film!) :))
  • Posts: 1,146
    The japanese makeup stuff in YOLT IS silly, lol!
    I agree.

    That still does not make AVTAK a good film.
  • Posts: 1,146
    See that closed thread about the worst moments in the series?
    No coincidence that it features most of the Moore films, lol.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    The japanese makeup stuff in YOLT IS silly, lol!
    I agree.

    That still does not make AVTAK a good film.

    What? I wasn't using it as barometer of comparison.

    Since you haven't bothered to respond to any of my constructive comments, I assume that this "debate" has hit rock bottom.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    See that closed thread about the worst moments in the series?
    No coincidence that it features most of the Moore films, lol.

    That was somebody's opinion, LOL.

    My list would be very different. And so would the next persons. We all have our tastes.
  • Posts: 1,146
    The japanese makeup stuff in YOLT IS silly, lol!
    I agree.

    That still does not make AVTAK a good film.

    What? I wasn't using it as barometer of comparison.

    Since you haven't bothered to respond to any of my constructive comments, I assume that this "debate" has hit rock bottom.

    I actually did answer your questions, but you did not answer mine: If the PTS is the only wart in this film, why then is it ranked in the 30 percentile?
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    The japanese makeup stuff in YOLT IS silly, lol!
    I agree.

    That still does not make AVTAK a good film.

    What? I wasn't using it as barometer of comparison.

    Since you haven't bothered to respond to any of my constructive comments, I assume that this "debate" has hit rock bottom.

    I actually did answer your questions, but you did not answer mine: If the PTS is the only wart in this film, why then is it ranked in the 30 percentile?

    I was referring to the points in my previous post...

    And I did respond to that comment, but you seem to have skirted over it.
  • Posts: 1,146
    You responded by slighting RT.
    (shrug)
    I can accept that you like the films because you like the character, but stating a film is good when it clearly, clearly not flies in the face of logic.

    These films are what they are, all of them, and deserve their merits and deductions.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    You responded by slighting RT.
    (shrug)
    I can accept that you like the films because you like the character, but stating a film is good when it clearly, clearly not flies in the face of logic.

    These films are what they are, all of them, and deserve their merits and deductions.

    nope, I didn't even mention Rotten Tomatoes.

    Again, what constitutes a good film lies with the viewer. I think AVTAK is an excellent film. It does what a Bond film should do; entertain. There is some terrific filmmaking in this film (just watch the behind the scenes commentary of how they shot the Golden Gate Bridge showdown). Yes, it has its flaws (like all Bond films?!), but for me, and other people, AVTAK is a favourite.

    "Flies in the face of logic".

    How on earth does it?

    Just because YOU don't like the film (or anyone else for that matter), DOES NOT make a film "bad".

    Say that you don't like the film, back it up, then move on. Do not go dandying around claiming that it is FACT.

  • Posts: 1,146
    So then three's no difference between Citizen Kane and Three Stooges go to the Moon?

    Oh, I don't like the film, and so does most of the world.
  • Posts: 11,189
    You shouldn't labour the point though.

    I confess to being guilty of that in the past with my dislike of a certain blonde bimbo in one of the Moore films but it gets you nowhere with other fans if you keep going on about it.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    So then three's no difference between Citizen Kane and Three Stooges go to the Moon?

    Never seen the Stooges film, so I can't comment there! :)>-

    Bond films are an entirely different context. They are they're own breed of film. By your logic, no Bond film should be revered (because they are not in the same league as Citizen Kane and such films!).

    Why is AVTAK a bad film (with no argument about it)?

    So far you've stated that the "fire truck chase is awful" and "the Beach Boys theme is cringeworthy". These are all...uhm, subjective?

    And as for your "most of the world" comment. Gosh, thats an exaggeration if I've ever read one.


  • Posts: 11,189
    I think it's fair to say that AVTAK isn't regarded as one of the particularly great Bond films. Moore himself has said its his least favourite.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Well,no, there's no denying that. But there does seem to be growing appreciation for the film, and it's beginning to depart from bottom end of spectrum to the average part. This relates directly to the original posters' question.

  • Great review as always @Pierce2Daniel. I think you summed up what's good in AVTAK quite well but for me, the bad definetely outweighs the good.

    I think it starts off badly and never really recovers. The ski chase is decent but nothing really new, it's certainly not a patch on the TSWLM PTS, and the beach boys scene ruins it. Also, it never made much sense to me. Why would the Russians just leave the dead agents body there with the microfilm, and how did Bond find it? Plus the iceberg sub with the union jack lid is ridiculously naff and geriatric Bond easily seducing the hot young agent is cringe worthy imo.

    The main problem with AVTAK is that Moore is too old. We've seen Bond's age acknowledged in other films (in fact, one of the reasons I defend NSNA is because it has an interesting idea with an older Bond, even though it doesn't do very much with it) and, since Moore in AVTAK is older than any other Bond in any other film, it would have been nice to see it acknowledged here.

    But no. They just try to pretend Moore is still young and it's cringe worthy and embarassing. He seems to need a stunt double for even the slightest hint of action and the way he pulls fit 20 something girls is ridiculous. You also mentioned clothes and I agree. He comes across as a deluded old man having a midlife crisis. Seeing him run around in a tracksuit or try to be all cool by putting on a pair of shades is cringe worthy

    I love Roger Moore. He seems likena really nice bloke and he was a fantastic Bond but he did one too many films, I think he himself has actually said that he regretted making AVTAK. He really should have gone out on a high with Octopussy.

    What's equally annoying is that the 80s were a golden era for action films. In 1985, Police Story came out. In Police Story Jackie Chan hangs from the back of a speeding bus with an umberella, electrocutes himself and kicks ass in some fantastic fight scenes. That same year, EON gave us Roger Moore's stunt double snowboarding down a mountain to the beach boys and oofing and ahhing as he struggles to dispatch some henchman in shockingly bad fight scenes.

    However, I think the producers realised how embarassing this was so when Dalton came in they really upped the ante stunts/action wise.

    Anyway, back to AVTAK. The plot is also pretty poor imo. It's just a rehash of Goldfinger, right down to the villain getting rid of an investor who wants no part in his scheme. They also waste a lot of time at the beginning with all that horse racing stuff which has really no impact on the overall plot.

    I also think Stacey Sutton is a bad Bond girl. All she does is need rescuing, she's insanely dumb (how the fuck did she not notice that massive blimp coming up behind her) and she's way too young for Moore. Say what you will about Christmas Jones but at least she was useful (the whole pipeline bit). Although maybe Stacey did something useful that I'm forgetting, I'll admit I haven't watched AVTAK for ages.

    It's not all bad. John Barry's score is brilliant, Christopher Walken is amazing as one of the best Bond villains, the theme song is catchy and there are some great moments. Overall though, I think it's definetely a case of the bad outweighing the good. Shame because there is potential. With a tighter, better written script and a younger Bond (imagine Dalton squaring off against Walken!) it could have been one of the best.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    So if the PTS is the only lowlight in this film, why is it ranked so poorly worldwide?

    It isn't the only thing. There are two stunt double scenes that are bad, too. But I'd argue that when the PTS takes such a misstep, it casts a pall on the rest of the film. That's me. Others disagree and that's fine, too.

    I rank AVTAK middle of the pack. I find it to be Moore's best Bond since TSWLM.

  • Posts: 1,146

    He really should have gone out on a high with Octopussy.


    That's a high?
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    He really should have gone out on a high with Octopussy.


    That's a high?

    An all time high ;)
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    I always say there are two types of Bond movie. Timeless and of there time. The latter covers AVTAK it's dated badly as its looks, sounds and feels painfully of its time which in my opinion was not a good period for music or fashion. It tried to adjust Bond to fit the kind of movies the generation at the time were in to. I enjoy fire ice & dynamite more than AVTAK good old Sir Roge. What I will say is AVTAK what a cast Walken, Del Torro & Jones. Great write up mate thanks for posting enjoyed the read.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Del Torro

    Who?
  • Posts: 1,092
    It will forever have a special place in my heart, as it was one of the very first Bond films I ever saw. I was ten when it came out. It's very flawed but I love Moore in it, even if he's too old. I would have also liked a few nods to his age in the film, it could have worked well but they were too scared to go there.

    Anyway, I like it for many reasons stated here already.
  • Posts: 1,146
    He really should have gone out on a high with Octopussy.


    That's a high?

    An all time high ;)

    I respect that you can state that with a straight face :)
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Del Torro

    Who?

    Oops! Quite right that was LTK Benicio DelcTorro was in.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I also respect that you can state half of the things you say with a straight face :D
  • Posts: 1,146
    I agree :)
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 6,432
    AVTAK never changes for me from the first time I watched it at the cinema, Walken is good he has one of the best villain lines in Bond movies. Moore is well past it to the point its not funny but cringe worthy, I love Moore so that helps his case a bit. Stacey is gorgeous though and I'll say this overall, the general acting is pretty poor. Though its Bond probably still watched this film a hundred times. A lot of the action is frankly stupid, certainly the Paris car chase. Moore hanging off a fire truck ladder X_X
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I have a soft spot for AVTAK...it's dropped a bit in my rankings mainly because I've found a new appreciation for other films, but for me it's largely enjoyable and entertaining. Call me childish but the taxi driver cracks me up and when Bond falls onto the wedding cake it's hilarious. I find the 80s much more entertaining than the 70s...doesn't mean they're better films but I'd rather watch pop them in the blu ray player
  • Posts: 11,189
    w2bond wrote: »
    I have a soft spot for AVTAK...it's dropped a bit in my rankings mainly because I've found a new appreciation for other films, but for me it's largely enjoyable and entertaining. Call me childish but the taxi driver cracks me up and when Bond falls onto the wedding cake it's hilarious. I find the 80s much more entertaining than the 70s...doesn't mean they're better films but I'd rather watch pop them in the blu ray player

    Oh god lol

    I know what you mean about the soft spot though. I have that for GE.
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