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Spectre title song - Writing's on the Wall

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    I have to say that the opening really hooked me in, it's extremely Barry-esque and initally it just sounds like a redo of what Adele did 3 years ago. However, it does move away from the traditional and stray into some rather interesting territory. For all intents and purposes, WOTW is really a big bawdy ballad with some Bondian elements thrown in for good measure. It would be easy to detest it for this reason alone. There is a cynical aspect to it, as this could just be a previously existing Sam Smith song that has been retrofitted to work with a Bond film.

    I wholeheartedly agree on the above points. Those were my exact feelings.
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    When you expect it drop the big theatrical Bondian cues, it dosen't. It holds back. There's a restrained quality (albeit only slightly) and in it something fragile and vulnerable too. The fact that it's a male singer singing from Bond's perspective makes it more complex and deconstructive. Typically there is a habit for male performers to bring more muscular feel to the Bond themese but Smith bares himself on this song.

    This is fundamentally why I can't stand it however. I find it a little too revealing without providing masculine cover. While Bond may have been naked in that chair in CR, he still demonstrated clear 'chutzpah'. There is no 'brass' or 'balls' for lack of a better word, in this song, which to me is essential to my expectations to a song sung from Bond's viewpoint.
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    However, Smith's talents do not lie as a lyricist, the lyrics are so on the nose and obvious you can't help put roll your eyes. However, this is really epidemic of modern pop music where subtly and nuance have gone out the window.

    Once again, spot on.

    At the end of the day, unlike some, I'm unable to put a positive spin on this song. It's way too sappy & syrupy for my liking (based on my understanding of the Bond character), although the music that accompanies it is excellent.

    Well written @Pierce2Daniel, even if I disagree with your overall assessment.
  • Gareth007fanGareth007fan
    Posts: 330
    It's funny how I disliked it very much yesterday, but after sleep and a playthrough more than 7 times, i'm liking it. I actually love many parts of the song, but the high pitch vocals are still make me cringe. Any chance them parts might be altered in the actual film version.
  • tigers99tigers99
    Posts: 582
    I posted eariler how I think it's great, but not so sure about Smith's vocals. Just caught a couple of YouTube covers and my appreciation of the song has gone up even more. Never being a fan of Sam Smith's vocal style - I guess it's not saying much about his vocals that I prefer 'ordinary' people singing it in their bedroom! It seems to suit a female singer more than a male singer too.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Has anyone heard Lana Del Rey's rejected Bond song for Spectre, yet? I rather love that one, to be honest. It's completely haunting that gives me the shivers in the night while listening to it. I do hope I'm not posting it in the wrong thread.

    http://www.inquisitr.com/2431691/lana-del-reys-honeymoon-includes-passed-over-james-bond-spectre-track/

    The song to listen to:
    http://t.co/jESMLeMTOT

    In my opinion, this should have been the theme song. Everything about it is 'Spectre'.

    Yeah, have to agree there. Could easily see that fitting over DK titles, nice Spanish feel to fit in with the PTS.
  • patbpatb
    edited September 2015 Posts: 4,617
    Its interesting that this situation has perhaps arisen as we seem to be in an era of singer-song writers. After a few listens, its clear that there are good melodies within the song trying to get out but IMHO, SS's singing style gets in the way. It would be churlish to say that SS can't write songs but that does not mean he has to sing the song. If you go down the singer-song writer route, you are bringing the "talent pool" right down. Bassey, Jones, etc could not write songs but that does not make their contribution to Bond culture any less valuable.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited September 2015 Posts: 2,252
    bondjames wrote: »
    Newman gets a lot of flak for that re: SF, unfairly.

    If one wants to lay blame for the fact that we don't hear the title track woven enough in to the score these days, lay it at the feet of EON. In their quest for 'chart success' marketing, they've more and more gone with 'flavour of the year' acts with big egos. Additionally, these acts may be with different labels and politics get involved. No composer worth his salt wants to play second fiddle to some bit act. Certainly not John Barry, and when he saw this nonsense starting with AVTAK (Duran Duran is the beginning of it according to Barry himself when Cubby acquiesed to their demands for 'creative control'), the 'writing was on the wall', to coin a phrase. TLD was the last straw, where he had issues with the 'divas' AHA. Interestingly, both of these bands now say that Barry's contributions to their respective tracks were phenomenal.

    So if one is lamenting the loss of the intricate weaving of score and title track that we used to get during the 60s/70s heyday, one should take it up with EON.

    I've always believed that a Bond title track must be orchestrated by the composer and the 'star' should just co-write the lyrics and sing. I prefer the composer be prioritized, because I've realized on rewatches that the score is one of the most important aspects of whether a Bond film is decent or not, & not the title track. Sadly for me, I'm not making the decisions over there.

    It's a good point you make, there are many factors that affect every aspect of the final film, a lot of back office political decisions made in order to improve the chances of a higher box office (Denise Richards?)

    I definitely agree that the score is very important to my enjoyment and we seem to be the minority, as I like and rank MR, AVTAK, DAF a lot higher because of Barry's score alone.

    So I don't expect Newman to incorporate the theme song, and don't feel he is obligated to. What I want is a memorable melody, much like Barry provided with "Cable car fight", "He's Dangerous", "Chase Bomb theme", the elevator fight with Franks which all don't have the theme song. Barry's sounds made otherwise lacklustre fights epic (eg Golden Gate fight with Zorin)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Apologies to anyone who was offended by anything I posted last night. I was out of order.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    I am profoundly underwhelmed with the songs structure and vocals. based on his recent material, I can't help thinking that Tom Jones would have killed this.
  • Gareth007fanGareth007fan
    Posts: 330
    I like the structure but sam smiths high pitch parts spoilt it.
  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    edited September 2015 Posts: 292
    Some alternative thoughts on Sam Smith's new disc on the 007 jukebox...

    Breaking Bond's Fall with WRITING'S ON THE WALL
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited September 2015 Posts: 8,452
    It seems a lot, besides those of us that instantly loved it, are coming around to the song and smiths vocals. I think this is a classic case of the fans thinking they know what a Bond song SHOULD be and hoping for exactly that instead of being open minded. When presented with something they weren't expecting, aren't hoping for, fans just roundly rejected what they were given instead out of frustration. Now the dust has settled, many are reevaluating the song for what it is, and I have seen posts of people admitting to enjoying it a lot more. I think this is a bit like 'blonde Bond' syndrome. In years to come people will wonder why people thought WOTW was controversial. I guess when you're breaking new ground (as WOTW does), it's a bit of a rocky process sometimes.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    It seems a lot, besides those of us that instantly loved it, are coming around to the song and smiths vocals. I think this is a classic case of the fans thinking they know what a Bond song SHOULD be and hoping for exactly that instead of being open minded. When presented with something they weren't expecting, aren't hoping for, fans just roundly rejected what they were given instead out of frustration. Now the dust has settled, many are reevaluating the song for what it is, and I have seen posts of people admitting to enjoying it a lot more. I think this is a bit like 'blonde Bond' syndrome. In years to come people will wonder why people thought WOTW was controversial. I guess when you're breaking new ground (as WOTW does), it's a bit of a rocky process sometimes.

    Or, some people, with very open minds have listen to it several times and still don't like it. I am a long time Bond fan and enjoy a wide range of music. I've listened to this at least a dozen and a half times and still find it weak. Much of this weakness s in the vocal. I think Lady GaGa could have done a great job with a version of this.

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Gareth007fan wrote: »
    It's funny how I disliked it very much yesterday, but after sleep and a playthrough more than 7 times, i'm liking it. I actually love many parts of the song, but the high pitch vocals are still make me cringe. Any chance them parts might be altered in the actual film version.

    I think I'm in the same boat. Its not the song ...the song is great but the vocals and style if the vocals.

    YouTube now has some better covers. I feel that Smith is going to come off as a joke and a black eye for Bond.

    Smith is talented I don't mean he is a joke by any means... but the falsetto just kinda blatantly shows a lack of range.

    Maybe I'm wrong.. I don't mean to be too harsh. I don't like Smith's style but that's purely subjective.
  • andmcitandmcit
    Posts: 1,068
    w2bond wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Newman gets a lot of flak for that re: SF, unfairly.

    If one wants to lay blame for the fact that we don't hear the title track woven enough in to the score these days, lay it at the feet of EON. In their quest for 'chart success' marketing, they've more and more gone with 'flavour of the year' acts with big egos. Additionally, these acts may be with different labels and politics get involved. No composer worth his salt wants to play second fiddle to some bit act. Certainly not John Barry, and when he saw this nonsense starting with AVTAK (Duran Duran is the beginning of it according to Barry himself when Cubby acquiesed to their demands for 'creative control'), the 'writing was on the wall', to coin a phrase. TLD was the last straw, where he had issues with the 'divas' AHA. Interestingly, both of these bands now say that Barry's contributions to their respective tracks were phenomenal.

    So if one is lamenting the loss of the intricate weaving of score and title track that we used to get during the 60s/70s heyday, one should take it up with EON.

    I've always believed that a Bond title track must be orchestrated by the composer and the 'star' should just co-write the lyrics and sing. I prefer the composer be prioritized, because I've realized on rewatches that the score is one of the most important aspects of whether a Bond film is decent or not, & not the title track. Sadly for me, I'm not making the decisions over there.

    It's a good point you make, there are many factors that affect every aspect of the final film, a lot of back office political decisions made in order to improve the chances of a higher box office (Denise Richards?)

    I definitely agree that the score is very important to my enjoyment and we seem to be the minority, as I like and rank MR, AVTAK, DAF a lot higher because of Barry's score alone.

    So I don't expect Newman to incorporate the theme song, and don't feel he is obligated to. What I want is a memorable melody, much like Barry provided with "Cable car fight", "He's Dangerous", "Chase Bomb theme", the elevator fight with Franks which all don't have the theme song. Barry's sounds made otherwise lacklustre fights epic (eg Golden Gate fight with Zorin)

    I have to agree 100% with you both, excellent points I couldn't have said better. I received a lot of ribbing here for suggesting AVTAK and MR are among my favourite scores! Nothing touches OHMSS
  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    Definitely a grower.

    Had to listen to it several times before deciding that I in fact liked it.

    Reminds me a lot of The World Is Not Enough, actually. The falsetto is a bit jarring and overdone, but not enough to ruin it. Definitely not among the best 007 themes, but nor is it amongst the worst.
  • TuxedoTuxedo Europe
    Posts: 262
    Listened to it 6 times now. Still crap IMO. I will listen to it one more time in the theatre. Afterwards I will skip it on BluRay.
  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    The vocals are definitely the worst part about it — sorry Sam. I wish they'd gotten someone else for it.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    It's at number one on billboard
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    talos7 wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    It seems a lot, besides those of us that instantly loved it, are coming around to the song and smiths vocals. I think this is a classic case of the fans thinking they know what a Bond song SHOULD be and hoping for exactly that instead of being open minded. When presented with something they weren't expecting, aren't hoping for, fans just roundly rejected what they were given instead out of frustration. Now the dust has settled, many are reevaluating the song for what it is, and I have seen posts of people admitting to enjoying it a lot more. I think this is a bit like 'blonde Bond' syndrome. In years to come people will wonder why people thought WOTW was controversial. I guess when you're breaking new ground (as WOTW does), it's a bit of a rocky process sometimes.

    Or, some people, with very open minds have listen to it several times and still don't like it. I am a long time Bond fan and enjoy a wide range of music. I've listened to this at least a dozen and a half times and still find it weak. Much of this weakness s in the vocal. I think Lady GaGa could have done a great job with a version of this.

    All I'm saying is this is a lot like the film twelve angry men. Slowly more people are switching sides. Those left are like the one with the glasses that hurt his nose and the racist, they will give up once their support is gone, or be ignored.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited September 2015 Posts: 18,344
    Sam Smith fans will no doubt buy 'Writing's on the Wall' regardless of the Bond affiliation and it will most likely go to No. 1 whether we all think it is good, bad or indifferent.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Regardless of my feelings for the song, I'm glad its No. 1 on the billboard 100.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    royale65 wrote: »
    Regardless of my feelings for the song, I'm glad its No. 1 on the billboard 100.

    Wow! Not an easy achievement in the US music industry!
  • andmcitandmcit
    edited September 2015 Posts: 1,068
    This is hardly a jury where there needs to be a unanimous verdict though so the analogy of 12 angry men is a bit obtuse. There is inevitably going to be an element of familiarity after constant repeat plays so maybe altering the original balance of 2/3 anti 1/3 pro.

    Which UK chart lists WotW as no.1 - iTunes yes, but I can't see any other UK chart that doesn't just show Bieber

    <EDIT> just missed your posting @royale65 = so US
  • bondboy007bondboy007
    Posts: 267
    I don't think it's as bad as people are making it out to be, but it's not good. I think it starts out well (very similar to Skyfall's opening, but that's not really a bad thing), but then right when you think it's building up to something it drops back down and then the "how do I live, how do I breathe, when you're not here I'm suffocating part" kind of kills it for me.

    If you're gonna make a softer Bond theme, then you've got to make it fun like "All Time High" or "Nobody Does it Better".
  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    Gotta love all the people screaming "homophobia" to critics of this theme on IMDB/Twitter/etc... that's a low blow. People disliked the QOS theme as well, this has nothing to do with the sexuality of the singer.
  • bondboy007bondboy007
    Posts: 267
    I loved the instrumental of AWtD, but hated the finished product. Kind of feel the same way with this one. I don't hate all of Smith's vocals, but there are parts that are totally wrong for a Bond song IMO.
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    Good afternoon everyone, I'm new here.

    I think the effectiveness of a Bong song depends on what the producers have got in mind for the visuals. I must confess that I was underwhelmed by Chris Cornell's "You Know My Name", but when the superb title sequence was added, it elevated the song immensely in my eyes.

    As far as "Writing's On The Wall" is concerned, my take is that it sounds like a typical Sam Smith love song, although to make it sound "Bondian", someone has added lush strings. This makes it sound like a parody, rather than a homage. It’s a bit like mixing orange juice with milk -- nice on their own, but when you mix them you get a curdled mess.

    However, "Writing’s On The Wall", in my opinion, is much better than the rubbish that Jack White and Alicia Keys expected us to swallow in Quantum Of Solace.

    I just hope that Daniel Kleinman provides some good and wholly appropriate visuals to elevate this song by putting it in an appropriate context.

  • HotterThanHellHotterThanHell
    Posts: 10
    Will they release a music video?????
  • GeneralGogolGeneralGogol
    Posts: 928
    Darius wrote: »
    Good afternoon everyone, I'm new here.

    I think the effectiveness of a Bong song depends on what the producers have got in mind for the visuals. I must confess that I was underwhelmed by Chris Cornell's "You Know My Name", but when the superb title sequence was added, it elevated the song immensely in my eyes.

    As far as "Writing's On The Wall" is concerned, my take is that it sounds like a typical Sam Smith love song, although to make it sound "Bondian", someone has added lush strings. This makes it sound like a parody, rather than a homage. It’s a bit like mixing orange juice with milk -- nice on their own, but when you mix them you get a curdled mess.

    However, "Writing’s On The Wall", in my opinion, is much better than the rubbish that Jack White and Alicia Keys expected us to swallow in Quantum Of Solace.

    I just hope that Daniel Kleinman provides some good and wholly appropriate visuals to elevate this song by putting it in an appropriate context.

    I can't imagine at all how this song will mix with the intended title sequence. In Kleinman we trust.

    As for the song itself, I agree with the performer that it's a 'grower.' Two listens so far and I'm not loving it, but I see potential. It's just so jarringly un-Bondian in terms of the most publicly loved and appreciated Bond songs. Lana Del Rey's '24' would've been a much better choice in my view. Her song is also unorthodox and a grower but it gives me goosebumps in the good sense of the word. Some of the final notes of '24' remind me of the final few seconds of the OHMSS instrumental, especially with the clock spinning backwards.

    Anyway, Writing's on the Wall is a bold choice for a theme - I think EON and Smith knew it would get mixed criticisms but also anticipate it to be a #1 hit. Lana, please try again next time!!
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    Bond wrote: »
    Gotta love all the people screaming "homophobia" to critics of this theme on IMDB/Twitter/etc... that's a low blow. People disliked the QOS theme as well, this has nothing to do with the sexuality of the singer.

    While there may be a very small number of people who don't like Smith's involvement because of his sexual preference, I think that too often the accusation of "homophobia" is an easy, lazy, way to dismiss those who don't like his vocals. For me it is his delivery, and voice, that ruins the song for me. With that said George Michael would have owned this, as would have Elton John and the late Freddie Mercury

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