Spectre title song - Writing's on the Wall

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Comments

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'd go with " foreboding" :)
  • Posts: 4,603
    I'm the first to appreciate that art is all about interpretation so 100% agree. However, there are conventions within music that have evolved over the decades. So if you have a movie that is dark and foreboding and you want a singer whose style reflects that, you don't employ someone who is known for their falsetto IMHO
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    I'm the first to appreciate that art is all about interpretation so 100% agree. However, there are conventions within music that have evolved over the decades. So if you have a movie that is dark and foreboding and you want a singer whose style reflects that, you don't employ someone who is known for their falsetto IMHO

    You do if you want to subvert expectations.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    I'm the first to appreciate that art is all about interpretation so 100% agree. However, there are conventions within music that have evolved over the decades. So if you have a movie that is dark and foreboding and you want a singer whose style reflects that, you don't employ someone who is known for their falsetto IMHO

    You do if you want to subvert expectations.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Roy Orbison was know for is sad and foreboding songs, like Crying,
    The comedians etc and he had a falsetto voice. I'm not saying anybody's
    Wrong, only that it can be done. :)
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    patb wrote: »
    I'm the first to appreciate that art is all about interpretation so 100% agree. However, there are conventions within music that have evolved over the decades. So if you have a movie that is dark and foreboding and you want a singer whose style reflects that, you don't employ someone who is known for their falsetto IMHO

    Agreed. SS is a good singer, I don't think anyone is reputing that - it is the fact that his musical & vocal style doesn't suit the tone of the film or the current direction of the franchise that irks many people.

    Add to that the fact that it is just feels too 'thrown together' (Smith himself said he penned it in 20 mins - that's less than your average lunch break, folks...).
    Bond fans are quite right to expect something a bit more polished, with perhaps a better tune?

    But it is only a song... if the film delivers then I most likely will end up completely forgetting about the title song anyway.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    AceHole wrote: »
    Add to that the fact that it is just feels too 'thrown together' (Smith himself said he penned it in 20 mins - that's less than your average lunch break, folks...).Bond fans are quite right to expect something a bit more polished, with perhaps a better tune?

    It doesn't feel thrown together to me at all, in fact it does the opposite of most 'thrown together' songs by avoiding the pitfalls of overworking it and packing it out with snares and drum loops. He wrote the lyrics in 20 minutes, not a problem. Mendes, Barbara and Michael all clearly felt it was perfect for the movie, they had ample time to bin it and go with someone else given it was recorded in January. As much as I've nitpicked at Mendes, I'm not arrogant enough to presume what is and isn't aurally or tonally correct for his film.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I know the 20 minute line will forever haunt him but
    http://www.vh1.com/news/52752/20-hit-songs-written-in-minutes/
    Here's 20 hit songs written in minutes.
    I know it sounds quick, but a lyricist has to bring his life experiences, his
    Hurt and anguish to the writing process, so in many ways WOTW could
    Have subconsciously taken years to form, only to come out in 20 minutes.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    DrGorner wrote: »
    I know the 20 minute line will forever haunt him but
    http://www.vh1.com/news/52752/20-hit-songs-written-in-minutes/
    Here's 20 hit songs written in minutes.
    I know it sounds quick, but a lyricist has to bring his life experiences, his
    Hurt and anguish to the writing process, so in many ways WOTW could
    Have subconsciously taken years to form, only to come out in 20 minutes.

    Exactly. Certain screenwriters can knock out a 90 min movie in a weekend, others may take months. The whole 20 minute thing is irrelevant.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 4,603
    The Orbison reference is interesting, my observation was that SS's effort was depressing. Crying is the perfect example of a sad and depressing song (yes in falsetto). It literally is tearful, he is weeping and you can almost sense SS weeping also. Crying and weeping are results of sadness and loss. Foreboding is the result of fear for something that is about to happen. I can't hear anything to be fearful of within "the Wall" (It's not exactly Jaws is it - the perfect example of foreboding)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    The Orbison reference is interesting, my observation was that SS's effort was depressing. Crying is the perfect example of a sad and depressing song (yes in falsetto). It literally is tearful, he is weeping and you can almost sense SS weeping also. Crying and weeping are results of sadness and loss. Foreboding is the result of fear for something that is about to happen. I can't hear anything to be fearful of within "the Wall" (It's not exactly Jaws is it - the perfect example of foreboding)

    The very phrase 'The Writing's on The Wall' is an idiom built around a premonition, usually of something tragic, disasterous etc.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I remember reading about the Beatles and writing " Hey Jude" one line
    " The movement you need is on your shoulder". Or approximately.
    They said they used that line because it fitted the music and had Intended
    to change it, but after three weeks they still couldn't think of anything. So
    Left it. :)
  • Posts: 4,603
    Cant argue with the title, you are spot on there
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I will say this, I do like the song and Sam Smith singing but I do agree it is
    Missing something. I don't know what it is, but just that last push to raise
    it up. I can't explain it, it almost as if you're waiting for a change in timing
    or something ( I'm not a musician so don't have the technical terms) .
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I don't sense any foreboding in the song at all. The title, yes definitely.

    We'll never agree on this song. It is polarizing here and in the broader community.

    100% predictable marketing move on the part of EON imho & successful in that respect, at least initially.

    Hopefully it plays out positively when it's all said and done.
  • Posts: 4,603
    DrGorner wrote: »
    I will say this, I do like the song and Sam Smith singing but I do agree it is
    Missing something. I don't know what it is, but just that last push to raise
    it up. I can't explain it, it almost as if you're waiting for a change in timing
    or something ( I'm not a musician so don't have the technical terms) .

    Yes, its as if you want it to shift up a gear and he never touches the clutch pedal
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,195
    Sark wrote: »

    After hearing this version (I'm sure it's been posted ITT before) I actually did find myself humming bits of it. I don't think it's a great song (I've hummed terrible songs before) but perhaps it really is Sam Smith (and my apparent raging homophobia) that is the problem.

    After hearing this version I realize that the song itself is not bad at all, in fact it's very effective; it's Smith's performance that I strongly dislike. I have a visceral, negative, reaction to the falsetto that affects my feeling for the entire song. His is needy and weak this is passionate with an air of mystery.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    talos7 wrote: »
    Sark wrote: »

    After hearing this version (I'm sure it's been posted ITT before) I actually did find myself humming bits of it. I don't think it's a great song (I've hummed terrible songs before) but perhaps it really is Sam Smith (and my apparent raging homophobia) that is the problem.

    After hearing this version I realize that the song itself is not bad at all, in fact it's very effective; it's Smith's performance that I strongly dislike. I have a visceral, negative, reaction to the falsetto that affects my feeling for the entire song. His is needy and weak this is passionate with an air of mystery.

    I have avoided listening to this version initially. After reading your comments, I had a listen. It's definitely better and I agree that there certainly is a more mysterious twinge to her singing than Smith's imho. It also seems more 'balanced' between the highs and lows.

    Having said that, I've realized, having listened to this more palatable version, that this song just isn't for me. There is too much emotion in it for me (as Smith himself said before its release......at least he was being honest about that....it is first and foremost a 'love song') to ever like it.

    I also hear a lot of Michael 'Bolton' in it rather than Jackson (and perhaps that's where my dislike comes from......I couldn't stand that guy and he used to get a lot of airplay back in the day.....).

    I bet Celine Dion could have a field day with this thing.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,195
    [quote="bondjames;496775
    I bet Celine Dion could have a field day with this thing.[/quote] :D

  • edited October 2015 Posts: 161
    007 composer David Arnold defends Sam Smith: "They're lucky to have him"

    "It’s very easy to have initial reactions to a song but you have to wait for the film, and hear the song in context."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/02/sam-smith-bond-theme-david-arnold-lethal-bizzle_n_8232046.html
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959

    "It’s very easy to have initial reactions to a song but you have to wait for the film, and hear the song in context."

    This is exactly why I'm waiting to hear it in the film.
  • Posts: 1,068
    Creasy47 wrote: »

    "It’s very easy to have initial reactions to a song but you have to wait for the film, and hear the song in context."

    This is exactly why I'm waiting to hear it in the film.

    Ditto! I'm still holding strong though caught the last few seconds on car in traffic alongside me with open windows!!

    Mr.Arnold has a point don't you think!? :D
  • Posts: 126
    Chart history made! First Bond theme in a 23 film history of 53 years and this is the first Bond No.1! Congratulations Sam Smith!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2015 Posts: 7,546
    It's a fantastic song outside of context too ;)

    It's going to be really brilliant with some visuals as well, I'm sure :)

    I still haven't seen a touch of footage from Spectre (avoiding this last trailer has been especially difficult given how excited people are for it :'( )but I don't mind having heard the song before going into the theatre as I know it'll be a bit different.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Congratulations Sam. =D>
  • zerozerozerozero The far far east
    Posts: 58
    It's a funny one this. I've said some very negative things about it, but have the feeling that in context it will sound better. It is going to need some wonders from Danny Kleinmann though. Such a shame they didn't give it to a female singer as above, because then the falsetto would not be as jarring.

    There is also something horribly self-pitying in SS's delivery the makes me just want to smack him on the nose :D And no, that isn't homophobia. I have never understood how disliking something means you are lumped together with people who have an irrational fear. I don't like dog shit but I'm not dogshittophobic. I just don't like it.
  • TokolosheTokoloshe Under your bed
    Posts: 2,667
    Sam Smith's James Bond theme makes UK chart history - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34425299
  • Posts: 4,603
    If there is an appreciation thread, should we have the opposite for those of us who really want to vent their spleen?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    patb wrote: »
    If there is an appreciation thread, should we have the opposite for those of us who really want to vent their spleen?

    Go ahead and use this one.
  • Tokoloshe wrote: »
    Sam Smith's James Bond theme makes UK chart history - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34425299

    Congratulations Sam !! And very good news for Spectre.

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