SPECTRE: Christoph Waltz's role - discussion

Thunderpussy

I think SPECTRE will have a few twists and surprises, and I have a feeling
That if Blofeld is revealed at the end it will perhaps be by an actor not at
The press conference ?

PanchitoPistoles

@Pierce2Daniel What Mendes is really great at is characterization, Oberhauser turning out to be a cliche character is the least of my worries.

fire_and_ice

There is a possibility that Blofeld may be heard and not seen in S.P.E.C.T.R.E. similar to TB and FRWL. I would be quite happy to see Blofeld as a shadowy figure, in this universe its Spectre first film appearance and Waltz could be playing a number 2 type character. Eon having only just got the rights to Blofeld etc, they are in a position to play the long game now and build Spectre over a number of films.

Thunderpussy

Yes, perhaps an unseen Blofeld, to keep people guessing ?

fire_and_ice

Read several months ago Bond 24 and 25 were a continuation of the same story arc, more and more I think about it I seem to have convinced myself Mallory is Blofeld.

Kerim

Has anyone considered that 21st Century SPECTRE could be led by a female? Monica Bellucci would be a good candidate. She could avenge her grandfather.

bondjames

My concern with this is it would be cribbing from TDKR. However, it is possible as Mendes likes Nolan's Batman work.

doubleoego

Kerim wrote: »

Has anyone considered that 21st Century SPECTRE could be led by a female? Monica Bellucci would be a good candidate. She could avenge her grandfather.

Her grandfather??

Kerim

Well, Monica would have been a baby when TB came out. Hans and Helga could have been the parents, but both were killed in the volcano (Blofeld disapproved of her son Hans marrying Helga, but Monica never knew that her grandfather had her mother killed). Irma Bunt became her caretaker, Blofeld semi-retired to take care of his grandchild. Monica watched her grandfather die in that chimney drop as she was in her senior year of high school. Monica decided to go to college and conceive of a way to avenge Bond and MI6 and now is her time.

I could have happened.

timmer

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

This is an interesting article:
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/04/dont_make_christoph_waltz_a_bond_villain_how_hollywood_mis_typecast_one_of_the_best_actors_out_there/

It makes me slightly worried about Waltz's casting. Part of me is hoping that they don't go down the typical road of making him an out-and-out baddie and instead carve something more complex. Actually Mendes's comments make me hope that Waltz's casting is a simple case of misdirection and the actor to play Blofeld is yet to be revealed.

That's a good read, but I don't think what she is going on about really matters.
There is plenty of nuance that Waltz can bring to Blofeld, and btw, there is no doubt in my mind that Waltz's Oberhauser Jr, will be revealed to be Blofeld.
It has been leaked as such and in a very public way, just as his being cast as Oberhauser was also leaked, and going back to SF, that Eve was MP, M would die etc.
The only question I think, is how the reveal will be achieved.
It's possible, as someone mentioned, that Blofeld, or mysterious chief of Spectre, will be hidden from our full view, as he was in FRWL and TB, and not revealed until Bond actually confronts him face to face, as he finally did in YOLT, but this time it won't take three films for the two to meet.
Meanwhile, Waltz can carry on as Oberhauser, until we are shown that he has also been this other mysterious figure, all along.
Hopefully the final reveal does include a white cat.

Gustav_Graves

Pierce2Daniel wrote:

I was going to post this in the Production Timeline thread but it's got so messy in there and impossible to streamline (in my opinion it's time it was locked especially since filming is about to begin). But let's discuss Blofeld's look: Assuming Waltz is playing the villain, how do we want him to look?

For me, the iconography of the character is so strong and I'd be sad to see certain elements go. I think you can do away with the persian cat and Nehu suits but Blofeld has to be bald. At the press launch Waltz had short grey hair:



But in a recent film he did with Terry Gilliam he shaved his head and man does he looks like Blofeld:

Hey @Pierce2Daniel. There's already a very similar, slightly more popular, topic about this subject in here: http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1760/spectre-so-who-s-going-to-play-ernst/p1 . And as we don't even know yet who's going to play Blofeld, perhaps it's a good idea to discuss the looks of Ernst in the link I just provided :-).

Matt_Helm

timmer wrote: »

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

This is an interesting article:
http://www.salon.com/2014/12/04/dont_make_christoph_waltz_a_bond_villain_how_hollywood_mis_typecast_one_of_the_best_actors_out_there/

It makes me slightly worried about Waltz's casting. Part of me is hoping that they don't go down the typical road of making him an out-and-out baddie and instead carve something more complex. Actually Mendes's comments make me hope that Waltz's casting is a simple case of misdirection and the actor to play Blofeld is yet to be revealed.

That's a good read, but I don't think what she is going on about really matters.
There is plenty of nuance that Waltz can bring to Blofeld ...

I am not so sure how many nuances Waltz has got. Here in Germany we know him for over 20 years and I personally know only two of them. Completely shy and restrained or exalted to the max. Obviously Hollywood has only brought out the latter and I somehow doubt we will see a third side of him.

scouse007

Malory is ex Special Air Service as mentioned in SF so why would Blofeld decide to join The British Army and then go for selection in the toughest Special Forces selection process. My view Blofeld will be an other actor not mentioned and I hope it's Tcheky Karyo despite being in Golden Eye or Vincent Cassel or Michael Shannon.

bondjames

I seem to recall the Fiennes as Blofeld rumour came out before SF in around late 2011, and it was around the same time the Harris as MP rumour came out if I'm not mistaken.

Whoever that source was got one out of two right. Or was it two out of two? Hmmmm.

fromswedenwithlove

I really hope that SP ties in with SF. After my first viewing of SF I talked with a good friend of mine about how we would have wanted it to end. How cool would it have been, if after the ending titles, we cut back to Silvas body in the chapel and the camera starts too slowly zoom in on he's hand to reveal a SPECTRE-ring! In other words, I hope that we get some kind of reference of Silva being Spectre!

RogueAgent

I think Blofeld will feature but you won't see him like in the early Connery films! In my minds eye i think of Thunderball with his silhouette where he has hair. That figure reminds me of Benedict Cumberbatch! Thoughts?

Pierce2Daniel

I have to admit Waltz's role in the trailer has got me interested.

Here's my theory, I haven't read the Sony leaks, so this is just based off the trailer. I'll spoiler tag it anyway.

I think Hannes and his wife adopted and fostered many children throughout their lives. Back in the early 1980's, one of the children they fostered was James Bond. I also think they adopted another child, possibly from birth, named Ernst Stavro Blofeld. I reckon because Blofeld was younger when he came into the Oberhauser household he was inducted into and took on the family-name whilst also being given a new Christian name; hence Franz Oberhauser.

I think something happened between the boys when they were younger, some kind of falling-out or fight. This led to Hannes siding with Bond and outcasting Franz. I also think it's possible that Hannes preferred Bond to Franz which created a degree of animosity between the young boys.

So the spectre of the story is Franz himself coming back to haunt Bond. Also it should be noted that Waltz and Craig actually look very much alike. They could easily pass as brothers in real life.



I'm not entirely sure how they will do the Blofeld reveal. Possibly Bond will know that Spectre's Number 1 is called Blofeld and of course when he confronts him he'll instantly know it's actually been Franz all along (after all, they spent their childhood together). Or they may do it the other way round, with Bond hunting his adopted-brother before Franz reveals his birth-name. Personally, I prefer the former but knowing Mendes (and the current trend in Hollywood blockbusters regarding iconic characters) they will likely do the latter. So just how SF could be seen a 'Moneypenny Begins', SP will be 'Blofeld Begins'; with the film charting Oberhauser's transformation into Blofeld.

Meaning Waltz will start the film looking like this:



and end up looking like, with the possibility that he could reappear in future Bond films:

Gustav_Graves

Although different titles, is it really necessary to discuss the same contents as it was discussed in this topic?
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1760/spectre-so-who-s-going-to-play-ernst#latest

I think contents-wise, the conversation in this topic can be continued elsewhere.

Pierce2Daniel

Gustav_Graves wrote: »

Although different titles, is it really necessary to discuss the same contents as it was discussed in this topic?
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1760/spectre-so-who-s-going-to-play-ernst#latest

I think contents-wise, the conversation in this topic can be continued elsewhere.

I hate thread Nazi's. Go for a walk, get a girlfriend, chill out. Find something to actually care about. You're so boring.

We aren't explicitly talking about Blofeld here and who should play him (which that thread you linked to is about (Also it's convenient that you were the one who started that thread, grow up)). We're talking about Oberhauser and Christoph Waltz who has been cast in the role, and there are plenty of people who don't actually think he is Blofeld.

Gustav_Graves

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

Gustav_Graves wrote: »

Although different titles, is it really necessary to discuss the same contents as it was discussed in this topic?
http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1760/spectre-so-who-s-going-to-play-ernst#latest

I think contents-wise, the conversation in this topic can be continued elsewhere.

I hate thread Nazi's. Go for a walk, get a girlfriend, chill out. Find something to actually care about. You're so boring.

We aren't explicitly talking about Blofeld here and who should play him (which that thread you linked to is about (Also it's convenient that you were the one who started that thread, grow up)). We're talking about Oberhauser and Christoph Waltz who has been cast in the role, and there are plenty of people who don't actually think he is Blofeld.

Sjee man. What the hell is wrong with you!! I've been warned on so many occasions by a moderator about double posting. Then, in a friendly way, I can not refer to that other topic?

Moreover, the discussion in the other topic is entirely the same! Sjee man, I usually respond nice, but the way YOU respond doesn't deserve a nuanced reaction!

RC7

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

I have to admit Waltz's role in the trailer has got me interested.

Here's my theory, I haven't read the Sony leaks, so this is just based off the trailer. I'll spoiler tag it anyway.

I think Hannes and his wife adopted and fostered many children throughout their lives. Back in the early 1980's, one of the children they fostered was James Bond. I also think they adopted another child, possibly from birth, named Ernst Stavro Blofeld. I reckon because Blofeld was younger when he came into the Oberhauser household he was inducted into and took on the family-name whilst also being given a new Christian name; hence Franz Oberhauser.

I think something happened between the boys when they were younger, some kind of falling-out or fight. This led to Hannes siding with Bond and outcasting Franz. I also think it's possible that Hannes preferred Bond to Franz which created a degree of animosity between the young boys.

So the spectre of the story is Franz himself coming back to haunt Bond. Also it should be noted that Waltz and Craig actually look very much alike. They could easily pass as brothers in real life.



I'm not entirely sure how they will do the Blofeld reveal. Possibly Bond will know that Spectre's Number 1 is called Blofeld and of course when he confronts him he'll instantly know it's actually been Franz all along (after all, they spent their childhood together). Or they may do it the other way round, with Bond hunting his adopted-brother before Franz reveals his birth-name. Personally, I prefer the former but knowing Mendes (and the current trend in Hollywood blockbusters regarding iconic characters) they will likely do the latter. So just how SF could be seen a 'Moneypenny Begins', SP will be 'Blofeld Begins'; with the film charting Oberhauser's transformation into Blofeld.

Meaning Waltz will start the film looking like this:



and end up looking like, with the possibility that he could reappear in future Bond films:

Interesting thoughts @Pierce2Daniel, I agree with a lot of it. Do we need to spoiler-tag if it's purely speculation, though? I'll stick mine in spoilers, but maybe you could add 'Potential Spoilers' to the title so we can discuss openly, as with you everything I know is from news tidbits etc.

I think you're probably right regards Blofeld's transition. I mentioned a while ago that 'maybe Bond gives Blofeld his scar, which at the time was pretty tongue in cheek, but the more I think about it the more I believe Mendes will visually allude to the cinematic Blofeld, namely Pleasance, more than he will the literary. It's something I've come to expect from him. Whether it will indeed play out in this way it's still hard to really tell, but I'm pretty damn sure this is in essence a Blofeld origin story so to speak, as much as it is a look at Bond's history.

One thing I'm not sure of is the reveal. This is partly because I have my own wish that Blofeld has merely adopted the name Oberhauser as a ruse to ensnare Bond. I think it will be more complex than this however, but it's difficult to the join the dots when we only have a few threads of an idea. One thing I do think will happen is that it will be Bond himself who initiates the reveal, rather than Blofeld/Oberhauser. I think it would be cliched for Blofeld/Oberhauser to do it himself. The reason I think this is solely because of the connection between the two of them. If Oberhauser is indeed an orphan who spent time with Bond when they were younger, he could easily have been 'Blofeld' before his adoption. Bond might know this, after all I'm sure the art of spying manifest at an early age. If the Oberhauser angle is a ruse, Bond could easily determine what exactly happened to the real Oberhauser. Anyhow, I think it will be Bond who calls his bluff. If only because everyone will expect it to be a Kahn moment and it won't be.

In summation, and to to simplify my angle, I think it's as clear cut as ever that Blofeld is Oberhauser, or Oberhauser is Blofeld, whichever way you look at it. I don't and never have bought the idea that another cast member, or yet to be cast actor is going to pop up as a surprise addition. I think, as we've said, this is a film about Blofeld.

Ludovico

Is it possible that SP has a Jekyll&Hyde twist? By this I mean something everybody knows about by the time the movie is out. Stevenson's novella had this twist Jekyll and Hyde are one and the same, it was a secret, but not for long, from the very first stage adaptation they decided to do away with the twist and have Jekyll turn into Hyde early on in the story in sight of the audience.

Now, with SP, they might not do it exactly like this, but hide (excuse the pun) the truth about Oberhauser's true nature until the big reveal... even though everybody suspects Oberhauser and Blofeld are one and the same.

I for one think Franz Oberhauser has been dead for some time. And Bond does not even seem to remember the picture anyway, so how easy it would be for Blofeld to assume a dead man's identity.

RC7

Ludovico wrote: »

I for one think Franz Oberhauser has been dead for some time. And Bond does not even seem to remember the picture anyway, so how easy it would be for Blofeld to assume a dead man's identity.

I'd prefer this, but I have a feeling it'll be more soap opera.

Pierce2Daniel

RC7 wrote: »

Pierce2Daniel wrote: »

I have to admit Waltz's role in the trailer has got me interested.

Here's my theory, I haven't read the Sony leaks, so this is just based off the trailer. I'll spoiler tag it anyway.

I think Hannes and his wife adopted and fostered many children throughout their lives. Back in the early 1980's, one of the children they fostered was James Bond. I also think they adopted another child, possibly from birth, named Ernst Stavro Blofeld. I reckon because Blofeld was younger when he came into the Oberhauser household he was inducted into and took on the family-name whilst also being given a new Christian name; hence Franz Oberhauser.

I think something happened between the boys when they were younger, some kind of falling-out or fight. This led to Hannes siding with Bond and outcasting Franz. I also think it's possible that Hannes preferred Bond to Franz which created a degree of animosity between the young boys.

So the spectre of the story is Franz himself coming back to haunt Bond. Also it should be noted that Waltz and Craig actually look very much alike. They could easily pass as brothers in real life.



I'm not entirely sure how they will do the Blofeld reveal. Possibly Bond will know that Spectre's Number 1 is called Blofeld and of course when he confronts him he'll instantly know it's actually been Franz all along (after all, they spent their childhood together). Or they may do it the other way round, with Bond hunting his adopted-brother before Franz reveals his birth-name. Personally, I prefer the former but knowing Mendes (and the current trend in Hollywood blockbusters regarding iconic characters) they will likely do the latter. So just how SF could be seen a 'Moneypenny Begins', SP will be 'Blofeld Begins'; with the film charting Oberhauser's transformation into Blofeld.

Meaning Waltz will start the film looking like this:



and end up looking like, with the possibility that he could reappear in future Bond films:

Interesting thoughts @Pierce2Daniel, I agree with a lot of it. Do we need to spoiler-tag if it's purely speculation, though? I'll stick mine in spoilers, but maybe you could add 'Potential Spoilers' to the title so we can discuss openly, as with you everything I know is from news tidbits etc.

I think you're probably right regards Blofeld's transition. I mentioned a while ago that 'maybe Bond gives Blofeld his scar, which at the time was pretty tongue in cheek, but the more I think about it the more I believe Mendes will visually allude to the cinematic Blofeld, namely Pleasance, more than he will the literary. It's something I've come to expect from him. Whether it will indeed play out in this way it's still hard to really tell, but I'm pretty damn sure this is in essence a Blofeld origin story so to speak, as much as it is a look at Bond's history.

One thing I'm not sure of is the reveal. This is partly because I have my own wish that Blofeld has merely adopted the name Oberhauser as a ruse to ensnare Bond. I think it will be more complex than this however, but it's difficult to the join the dots when we only have a few threads of an idea. One thing I do think will happen is that it will be Bond himself who initiates the reveal, rather than Blofeld/Oberhauser. I think it would be cliched for Blofeld/Oberhauser to do it himself. The reason I think this is solely because of the connection between the two of them. If Oberhauser is indeed an orphan who spent time with Bond when they were younger, he could easily have been 'Blofeld' before his adoption. Bond might know this, after all I'm sure the art of spying manifest at an early age. If the Oberhauser angle is a ruse, Bond could easily determine what exactly happened to the real Oberhauser. Anyhow, I think it will be Bond who calls his bluff. If only because everyone will expect it to be a Kahn moment and it won't be.

In summation, and to to simplify my angle, I think it's as clear cut as ever that Blofeld is Oberhauser, or Oberhauser is Blofeld, whichever way you look at it. I don't and never have bought the idea that another cast member, or yet to be cast actor is going to pop up as a surprise addition. I think, as we've said, this is a film about Blofeld.

I agree with everything you've said. I think that is exactly how it will play out.

I've always thought that if Blofeld was to return and there was going to be a two-film arc that we would see Bond actually give him the iconic scar. It makes sense and it makes for a nice play on the history of the character. You're right, it is certainly something Mendes would cook up.

Personally, I think the final moments of the film will see Oberhauser become Blofeld. After he is given the scar, I don't think we will see him till after and Oberhauser will reveal to someone that his birthname is actually Erst Stavro Blofeld as he turns to the camera and we see the scar.

I'm certain Mendes will recreate this moment from YOLT at the end of SP



I bet the framing is exactly the same as well, sorta like Field's death in QOS replicating the same scene in GF.

Ludovico

RC7 wrote: »

Ludovico wrote: »

I for one think Franz Oberhauser has been dead for some time. And Bond does not even seem to remember the picture anyway, so how easy it would be for Blofeld to assume a dead man's identity.

I'd prefer this, but I have a feeling it'll be more soap opera.

I don't know. Blofeld and other Bond villains have an habit of usurping identities. Or inventing new ones from scratch. I don't think Franz Oberhauser is related to Bond by blood anyway. And if Bond is confused about the picture, he must not have been that close to him in any case.

Thunderfinger

I hope he sings.

SirHilaryBray

You know I just don't see Waltz being Blofeld I think at the end of the film we will see

Marc Strong

SirHilaryBray

Here is my prediction

Oberhauser is the reason for Bonds parents death a jealous boy, jealous of how his father Bonds SKI instructor treated him more like a son. His involvement ends with him being head of Qauntum and a Spectre agent. I think he deliver him Whites location, Qauntum want him gone for his prior failings. Rather than kill White, White starts talking the chase is then on for the shadow man for Bond until he finally meets the man in the closing scene's of Spectre in Morocco. Now in yesterday's interview Babs confirmed they still have scenes to finish in Morocco where surprise surprise Dan was with Marc Strong last year hill walking" as friends Dan is step dad to Marc Strongs son and best mates since Our Friends in the North. But Strong is a perfect Blofeld if casting a Blofeld there is no way Strong is not the first actor to have his name thrown in the hat. My guess they were over rehearsing a fight scene probably a mountain villa. Probably a 10 min sequence then on to Bond 25 with Bonds continued persuit of Blofeld. I have avoid the leaked script this is only my own views on how I see it play out.

SirHilaryBray

Kerim wrote: »

Has anyone considered that 21st Century SPECTRE could be led by a female? Monica Bellucci would be a good candidate. She could avenge her grandfather.

The female Blofeld think crossed my mind.

RC7

SirHilaryBray wrote: »

Here is my prediction

Oberhauser is the reason for Bonds parents death a jealous boy, jealous of how his father Bonds SKI instructor treated him more like a son. His involvement ends with him being head of Qauntum and a Spectre agent. I think he deliver him Whites location, Qauntum want him gone for his prior failings. Rather than kill White, White starts talking the chase is then on for the shadow man for Bond until he finally meets the man in the closing scene's of Spectre in Morocco. Now in yesterday's interview Babs confirmed they still have scenes to finish in Morocco where surprise surprise Dan was with Marc Strong last year hill walking" as friends Dan is step dad to Marc Strongs son and best mates since Our Friends in the North. But Strong is a perfect Blofeld if casting a Blofeld there is no way Strong is not the first actor to have his name thrown in the hat. My guess they were over rehearsing a fight scene probably a mountain villa. Probably a 10 min sequence then on to Bond 25 with Bonds continued persuit of Blofeld. I have avoid the leaked script this is only my own views on how I see it play out.

I really don't see this happening.

Why cast an actor of Waltz's calibre, then use Mark Strong as Blofeld? Would that not equate to the biggest damp squib in cinema history? The whole Blofeld reveal is inevitable, the film is called SPECTRE. The intrigue will come from the Oberhauser/Blofeld duality. If he's not ESB, I'll eat my hat.