Andrew Scott as Denbigh

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  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    Ok...
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Everything about this character was misjudged from the opening frame his visage, demeanour, dialogue and ambitions screamed 'traitor!' and lo and behold...that's exactly what we got. Considering they had already done something similar with Fiennes himself in Skyfall - the pleasing thing is that they subverted that suspicion - but also kept you guessing as to Fiennes' character and loyalties until he started firing heroically in the courtroom defending M. Then you knew he was onside - but Denbigh had nothing surprising. It would have been better if he had appeared to be approving of the 00 section and Mi6 - but secretly using them to his own nefarious ends - rather than railing against their obsolescence (like we need THAT trope again!) If he was a friendly, benevolent face; even older and respected tied in to the establishment it would have been better. Added to which they cast Andrew Scott - who is a solid actor but made Sherlock near unwatchable with his poor acting choices (I get it - he played Moriarty as a psychopath - but that got pantomime villain within seconds!)

    But Denbigh's villainy was never written as a twist. It was revealed early on and foreshadowed even earlier. In fact like many pointed out it was revealed as early as the trailer. So it's not like it was even meant to be a surprise. That said I agree with you that Andrew Scott plays far too much pantomime villain. I didn't like at all his take on Moriarty.

    I guess I fail to see the point of his character at all then. I'm not a Spectre hater (nor lover either - I think it's a solid middle 007 film) But Denbeigh was one of the worst aspects of Spectre (along with the limp third act).

    On trailers - I never saw the final trailer (the third one I believe) until after I had seen the film. Modern trailers are a blight on cinema. I watched the teaser and the second one. And I refuse to go frame by frame through a trailer to eek out spoilers. That seems self-defeating. And that would have been the only way I would have seen the brief flash of M vs Denbeigh (where I believe you can't really see Denbeigh's face?)

  • Posts: 15,229
    Nowadays trailers are dissected left, right and center. But I thought his treachery was pretty obvious in the SP trailer. In any case, his presence as an antagonist in the trailer pretty much shows that they didn't intend to make his betrayal a big reveal. But anyway, I think Max Denbigh had his use, although I agree with @Gettler that they should have established him as a villain from the start, unambiguously, which would have given the early scenes he is on far more strength and a nice ominous feel.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Whether it was established in the trailer or not Scott was bloody awful in SPECTRE.

    There is nothing wrong with him being SPECTRE but it shouldn't have been obvious to Mallory he was an enemy from the beginning, he didn't trust him from the get go.

    Fair enough to the audience to be on it but having Mallory taken in by Denbigh, I have a proposal that the character could have been around Mallory's age and possibly an old friend from his past making being taken by Denbigh that more believable.

    Mallory is new to the job and not experienced like Dench's M, they could have used this as a learning curve for him and had Bond save the day and establish their relationship. Both men would realise the value of each other and going forward we could have a relationship like Bernard Lee had with Connery, Lazenby & Moore.
  • Posts: 2,483
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Scott was great as Denbigh. He'll doubtless go down as one of the most underrated characters in all of Bond. He certainly equaled--at minimum--Waltz's performance as Blofeld.

    The defense of SPECTRE gets to ridiculous levels are you really being serious or is this some kind of joke??

    Waltz just telephoned his performance in.

    I personally would have rather seen Denbigh eased more slowly out as an outright bad guy, it wouldn't need to be too big a twist and the audience could have been on to it before M.

    I will soon post my take on SPECTRE, my idea for Denbigh and I'm far from a script writer is a much better than the hamfisted rubbish P&W foisted on us in the finished product.

    Of course it's not a joke. And you didn't make a single substantive critique of Denbigh or Scott. All attitude, no substance.

  • Posts: 2,483
    Everything about this character was misjudged from the opening frame his visage, demeanour, dialogue and ambitions screamed 'traitor!' and lo and behold...that's exactly what we got. Considering they had already done something similar with Fiennes himself in Skyfall - the pleasing thing is that they subverted that suspicion - but also kept you guessing as to Fiennes' character and loyalties until he started firing heroically in the courtroom defending M. Then you knew he was onside - but Denbigh had nothing surprising. It would have been better if he had appeared to be approving of the 00 section and Mi6 - but secretly using them to his own nefarious ends - rather than railing against their obsolescence (like we need THAT trope again!) If he was a friendly, benevolent face; even older and respected tied in to the establishment it would have been better. Added to which they cast Andrew Scott - who is a solid actor but made Sherlock near unwatchable with his poor acting choices (I get it - he played Moriarty as a psychopath - but that got pantomime villain within seconds!)

    I suspect foreknowledge of Denbigh's treason was based more on viewing trailers than anything about the character itself. That said, Scott was delightfully odious in the role, so much so that the viewer takes an instant dislike to Denbigh. But plenty of unlikable characters in films are not true villains.

    My favorite Denbigh line: "Take a look at the world… chaos… because people like you, paper-pushers and politicians, are too spineless to do what needs to be done so I made an alliance to place the power where it should be. And now you want to throw it away for the sake of democracy, whatever the hell that is."

    Excellent delivery here. Especially the concluding sentence.

  • Posts: 2,483
    I want to make sweet love with Andrew Scott as Denbigh on a bed of soft roses. A quite marvellous and complex character of many layers. In the top five best Bond villains (counting the main ones) imo. Maybe even in the top three.

    Well now! Ahem...

    :-S
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I want to make sweet love with Andrew Scott as Denbigh on a bed of soft roses. A quite marvellous and complex character of many layers. In the top five best Bond villains (counting the main ones) imo. Maybe even in the top three.

    Well now! Ahem...

    :-S

    Take no notice mate. The guy has been banned but not before creating a thread called 'Top 5 C**ts on the Forum'!!

    Tragically said thread was deleted before I got to see so I'm itching to know who made the C**tdown!

    I trust like myself, you also have aspirations of topping the list?!?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I want to make sweet love with Andrew Scott as Denbigh on a bed of soft roses. A quite marvellous and complex character of many layers. In the top five best Bond villains (counting the main ones) imo. Maybe even in the top three.

    Well now! Ahem...

    :-S

    Take no notice mate. The guy has been banned but not before creating a thread called 'Top 5 C**ts on the Forum'!!

    Tragically said thread was deleted before I got to see so I'm itching to know who made the C**tdown!

    I trust like myself, you also have aspirations of topping the list?!?

    I think it's about time the other three came clean. If PK is indeed included we are in esteemed company. I may even retire.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Scott was great as Denbigh. He'll doubtless go down as one of the most underrated characters in all of Bond. He certainly equaled--at minimum--Waltz's performance as Blofeld.

    The defense of SPECTRE gets to ridiculous levels are you really being serious or is this some kind of joke??

    Waltz just telephoned his performance in.

    I personally would have rather seen Denbigh eased more slowly out as an outright bad guy, it wouldn't need to be too big a twist and the audience could have been on to it before M.

    I will soon post my take on SPECTRE, my idea for Denbigh and I'm far from a script writer is a much better than the hamfisted rubbish P&W foisted on us in the finished product.

    Of course it's not a joke. And you didn't make a single substantive critique of Denbigh or Scott. All attitude, no substance.

    My critique was there was no substance to his performance it was all shallow and no depth, to say he was one of the best Bond villains is ridiculous.

    Nothing new just a plain vanilla villain, same old corrupt beuracrat who was obvious to both Mallory and the audience was up to no good.

    Not all Scott's fault P&W definitely take most of the blame but he just slummed it through the part and offered nothing that exciting at all.

    As for being better than Waltz that isn't really hard Christoph slept his way through his role in the film.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    The guy was awful, on the nose, and SPECTRE works much better as a film every time I fast forward his scenes. He's brutal.
  • Posts: 15,229
    I want to make sweet love with Andrew Scott as Denbigh on a bed of soft roses. A quite marvellous and complex character of many layers. In the top five best Bond villains (counting the main ones) imo. Maybe even in the top three.

    Well now! Ahem...

    :-S

    Take no notice mate. The guy has been banned but not before creating a thread called 'Top 5 C**ts on the Forum'!!

    Tragically said thread was deleted before I got to see so I'm itching to know who made the C**tdown!

    I trust like myself, you also have aspirations of topping the list?!?

    I hope I was at least in the top 5 myself.
  • Posts: 2,483
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Scott was great as Denbigh. He'll doubtless go down as one of the most underrated characters in all of Bond. He certainly equaled--at minimum--Waltz's performance as Blofeld.

    The defense of SPECTRE gets to ridiculous levels are you really being serious or is this some kind of joke??

    Waltz just telephoned his performance in.

    I personally would have rather seen Denbigh eased more slowly out as an outright bad guy, it wouldn't need to be too big a twist and the audience could have been on to it before M.

    I will soon post my take on SPECTRE, my idea for Denbigh and I'm far from a script writer is a much better than the hamfisted rubbish P&W foisted on us in the finished product.

    Of course it's not a joke. And you didn't make a single substantive critique of Denbigh or Scott. All attitude, no substance.

    My critique was there was no substance to his performance it was all shallow and no depth, to say he was one of the best Bond villains is ridiculous.

    Nothing new just a plain vanilla villain, same old corrupt beuracrat who was obvious to both Mallory and the audience was up to no good.

    Not all Scott's fault P&W definitely take most of the blame but he just slummed it through the part and offered nothing that exciting at all.

    As for being better than Waltz that isn't really hard Christoph slept his way through his role in the film.

    Who said he is one of the best Bond villains?

    As to his performance being shallow, well that's a pretty threadbare critique. What, exactly do you mean by shallow? Can you provide examples? How could his acting have been deeper?

    AFAIC, Scott was bang-on in portraying a credentialed weasel with awesome power at his fingertips and a sinister pensee arriere. As he lied to M about the entire 9 Eyes project, there was a shiftiness behind Denbigh's eyes that suggested dirty work afoot. As if Denbigh was a good but not quite good enough liar.

    Had his role not been spoiled by the trailers, I daresay the character would be receiving considerably more praise than opprobrium.

  • Posts: 2,483
    I want to make sweet love with Andrew Scott as Denbigh on a bed of soft roses. A quite marvellous and complex character of many layers. In the top five best Bond villains (counting the main ones) imo. Maybe even in the top three.

    Well now! Ahem...

    :-S

    Take no notice mate. The guy has been banned but not before creating a thread called 'Top 5 C**ts on the Forum'!!

    Tragically said thread was deleted before I got to see so I'm itching to know who made the C**tdown!

    I trust like myself, you also have aspirations of topping the list?!?

    I shouldn't be surprised if the ruddy list was created in my honor...



  • Posts: 2,483
    RC7 wrote: »
    I want to make sweet love with Andrew Scott as Denbigh on a bed of soft roses. A quite marvellous and complex character of many layers. In the top five best Bond villains (counting the main ones) imo. Maybe even in the top three.

    Well now! Ahem...

    :-S

    Take no notice mate. The guy has been banned but not before creating a thread called 'Top 5 C**ts on the Forum'!!

    Tragically said thread was deleted before I got to see so I'm itching to know who made the C**tdown!

    I trust like myself, you also have aspirations of topping the list?!?

    I think it's about time the other three came clean. If PK is indeed included we are in esteemed company. I may even retire.

    C*nt Island is very nice in wintertime. And the local maidens make a very fine coconut cream pie.

  • Posts: 15,229
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Scott was great as Denbigh. He'll doubtless go down as one of the most underrated characters in all of Bond. He certainly equaled--at minimum--Waltz's performance as Blofeld.

    The defense of SPECTRE gets to ridiculous levels are you really being serious or is this some kind of joke??

    Waltz just telephoned his performance in.

    I personally would have rather seen Denbigh eased more slowly out as an outright bad guy, it wouldn't need to be too big a twist and the audience could have been on to it before M.

    I will soon post my take on SPECTRE, my idea for Denbigh and I'm far from a script writer is a much better than the hamfisted rubbish P&W foisted on us in the finished product.

    Of course it's not a joke. And you didn't make a single substantive critique of Denbigh or Scott. All attitude, no substance.

    My critique was there was no substance to his performance it was all shallow and no depth, to say he was one of the best Bond villains is ridiculous.

    Nothing new just a plain vanilla villain, same old corrupt beuracrat who was obvious to both Mallory and the audience was up to no good.

    Not all Scott's fault P&W definitely take most of the blame but he just slummed it through the part and offered nothing that exciting at all.

    As for being better than Waltz that isn't really hard Christoph slept his way through his role in the film.

    Who said he is one of the best Bond villains?

    As to his performance being shallow, well that's a pretty threadbare critique. What, exactly do you mean by shallow? Can you provide examples? How could his acting have been deeper?

    AFAIC, Scott was bang-on in portraying a credentialed weasel with awesome power at his fingertips and a sinister pensee arriere. As he lied to M about the entire 9 Eyes project, there was a shiftiness behind Denbigh's eyes that suggested dirty work afoot. As if Denbigh was a good but not quite good enough liar.

    Had his role not been spoiled by the trailers, I daresay the character would be receiving considerably more praise than opprobrium.

    To be fair Andrew Scott has a tendency to play pantomime villain. He somewhat restrained himself as Denbigh but he was barely hiding his villainy. That's why I think they didn't bother hiding it in the trailer: it was obvious enough.

    But yes he plays convincingly the backstabbing power hungry civil servant. And your comment makes me appreciate the character more.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Personally,i cant understand the negative posts about Scott and Denbigh,i thought he was a perfect character to be Blofeld's link to the Nine Lives project...but hey ho...cant please all the folks all the time...
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Well we'll just agree to disagree on that one, I couldn't stand Denbigh and the potential for that character to have been much more makes it that much worse for me.

    As I said his obvious intentions to Mallory were in the first scene they shared together, to have kept it more ambiguios and had Mallory fooled would have been much better.

    Also a lost opportunity to have Guy Haines return considering everything was linked with SP, also his high position, are we to presume he just disappeared without a trace considering he was one of the Prime Ministers closest advisors?

    I would suggest that investigation into Quantum was suppressed by higher ranking members wanting to keep the organisation concealed. I've used this for the basis for my rewrite of SPECTRE as well as having Mr White figure from the start and his ghost hang over the film after his exit.

    I know some didn't like the retcon and linking it all together but for me I had no problem with this it was just the hamfisted and half assed fashion it was done.

    Maybe Scott played the role he was written but that doesn't stop me disliking it, some have said that they think Craig is terrible as Bond, although he plays his version of the character so well but still doesn't stop those that hate this version of Bond spouting on about it.

    So me saying that Scott wasn't very good is small fry, especially when I'm not on my own by a long shot in my criticism.

    He was one note and there was nothing that we hadn't seen before, it was like a more restrained version of his Moriarty, I'm no massive Holmes fan I just enjoy Sherlock and his Moriarty was not a problem for me like some but it does start to grate after a while and seeing a more diluted version in another project doesn't help matters

    Scott is actually much better when he's not playing a villain and just some normal person, his performance in Pride was so much better than both Sherlock & SPECTRE.

    Interesting consideing that Waltz played Inglourious Basterds Hans Landa dialed down to 3 when offered to give us Bond's most famous nemesis.

    Hans seeped charisma and menace, his ESB was as intimidating as Tanner.
  • Posts: 15,229
    Well Guy Haines having been revealed in QOS he couldn't have been playing the role of Denbigh in SP. If he's still alive I'm sure the PM has forgotten his name by now.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well Guy Haines having been revealed in QOS he couldn't have been playing the role of Denbigh in SP. If he's still alive I'm sure the PM has forgotten his name by now.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Well Guy Haines having been revealed in QOS he couldn't have been playing the role of Denbigh in SP. If he's still alive I'm sure the PM has forgotten his name by now.

    I'm not suggesting he was the Denbigh role, I would have cast an older more the same age as Mallory and also made him somone from his past so Mallory had a familiarity to this Denbeigh and Haines would have appeared later in the story.

    Anything is better than scanning a ring to link everything, along with the ESB foster brother nonsense it was up there with the worst crimes of of the series period.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited August 2016 Posts: 2,722
    RC7 wrote: »
    I want to make sweet love with Andrew Scott as Denbigh on a bed of soft roses. A quite marvellous and complex character of many layers. In the top five best Bond villains (counting the main ones) imo. Maybe even in the top three.

    Well now! Ahem...

    :-S

    Take no notice mate. The guy has been banned but not before creating a thread called 'Top 5 C**ts on the Forum'!!

    Tragically said thread was deleted before I got to see so I'm itching to know who made the C**tdown!

    I trust like myself, you also have aspirations of topping the list?!?

    I think it's about time the other three came clean. If PK is indeed included we are in esteemed company. I may even retire.

    C*nt Island is very nice in wintertime. And the local maidens make a very fine coconut cream pie.

    They have huts on the beach and good drinking competitions with scorpions on their hands.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 19,339
    I swallowed a scorpion doing that once...felt a right prick...
    especially in the throat...
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited August 2016 Posts: 2,722
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I swallowed a scorpion doing that once...felt a right prick...
    especially in the throat...

    I guess that he disagreed with something that ate him

  • Posts: 19,339
    Well i did have a vindaloo and 3 cobra beers earlier...so thats an accurate comment,Major .
  • I was just remembered that Andrew Scott is in this film. Man, that guy barely registered.

    His casting was so pointlessly dull and uninspired. There are no small parts, just small actors, and despite his clear talent, Scott was lost in this film.

    They could have hired someone a little more inspired. I mean, having teh villain from Sherlock turn into a villain in a Bond film is obvious casting 101.

    I understand the thinking behind the character - he is supposed to be the young face of modern espionage. A stark contrast to the hollowed-out old tomb of Mi6 sitting in his glistening new castle.

    But surely there was someone else who could have played this role?

    David Oyelowo would have been terrific
    Even Tom Hiddleston could have been quite interesting
    Even a butch Henry Cavill sort might have been a little more interesting.



  • Posts: 4,325
    I was just remembered that Andrew Scott is in this film. Man, that guy barely registered.

    His casting was so pointlessly dull and uninspired. There are no small parts, just small actors, and despite his clear talent, Scott was lost in this film.

    They could have hired someone a little more inspired. I mean, having teh villain from Sherlock turn into a villain in a Bond film is obvious casting 101.

    I understand the thinking behind the character - he is supposed to be the young face of modern espionage. A stark contrast to the hollowed-out old tomb of Mi6 sitting in his glistening new castle.

    But surely there was someone else who could have played this role?

    David Oyelowo would have been terrific
    Even Tom Hiddleston could have been quite interesting
    Even a butch Henry Cavill sort might have been a little more interesting.



    Think Tom Hiddlestone would have been great.
  • Posts: 15,229
    By hindsight I would have preferred Sam Throughton in the role. He was deliciously evil as Edmund in Sam Mendes' take on King Lear at the National Theatre and played him as an ambitious bureaucrat. I always thought Andrew Scott was overrated as an actor.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Probably the weakest character in the film for me. In Hindsight I wish they had kept Tanner as the traitor to bump himself off.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Andrew Scott telegraphing his evil with each look and sneer. Absolutely detest him.

    And I thought his death was sooo lame; c'mon Mendes, man the hell up:

    An embarrassing wrestling match? A gunshot? A spray of glass?

    No! Mallory should have had a scene where he and Bond are closely aligned. He should have struck evil down right where he stood, coldly and objectively. After all, this was Mallory's training.
  • Posts: 15,229
    I liked how he died. And for the record I have nothing against typecasting in a Bond movie (see my thread on the subject). It's just Scott I am not a fan of.
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