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A Free Chance for Fans to Lobby for Yusef's Return...

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Comments

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,180
    None of the above.
    Vesper need not be mentioned again. Her storyline is well and truly done.
    Yusef is a minor character from a film over 10 years ago.
    He isn’t important enough to make a reappearance.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    @RogueAgent and everyone else,

    Yusef doesn't even have to be named, he can just be used to advance the plot and help provide Bond with information or be a Link-to-a-Leak. Would you rather have that
    or:

    Vesper's interrogation video tape be shown

    or

    Vesper's grave site

    If you had to choose between the three?

    Had it been filmed? Vesper interrogation scene for sure!
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    @RogueAgent

    Yeah, I wish Spectre would have shown at least a bit of it with Mr. White or Guy Haines conducting the interrogation.

    It's still not too late for them to film such a scene.

    Does anyone know if @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 is still active? He did suggest the idea of Yusef being used as an unlikely ally.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    @RogueAgent

    Yeah, I wish Spectre would have shown at least a bit of it with Mr. White or Guy Haines conducting the interrogation.

    It's still not too late for them to film such a scene.

    Does anyone know if @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 is still active? He did suggest the idea of Yusef being used as an unlikely ally.

    If you click on the username, you can see when he was last active. In his case, ten months ago.
  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    Thanks @Thunderfinger

  • dramaticscenesofQOSdramaticscenesofQOS
    Posts: 1,282
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I wouldn't necessarily be upset if they brought back Yusef and / or mentioned Vesper, I simply fail to see why they'd do that. I much sooner expect a passing reference to the former M, and even that is not something I desire. Bond films aren't into that level of "myth building". However, I admit that Tracy was referenced twice after OHMSS and the word 'predecessor' was used by both M in GE and Q/R in DAD. So if they mention Vesper in the proper context, I might even like it.

    Personally I consider Blofeld without Tracy just another Dr No, Goldfinger, Stromberg, or Drax. Its the killing of Tracy that elevates Blofeld to nemesis status (particularly in the books) so given that a remake of OHMSS doesnt seem likely then I would be inclined to have Bond discover (at the very end of SP or in B25) that it is Blofeld who was behind Vesper's death and it was he who ordered honey trap Yusuf to work his magic on female agents.

    This would make Bond's final battle with Blofeld in B25 and B26 the personal vendetta of the books and would make up for the rather underwhelming showdown with Yusuf as we see Bond properly get his revenge - 'Die Blofeld, die!!'

    By bringing back Mr White they are clearly trying to tie the whole Craig era together (rather hamfistedly IMO given it was clearly never intended from the start) by presumably having Quantum turn into SPECTRE. If this is the case then I dont really see the logic of ignoring Vesper and the fact Bond has a very personal grudge with the organisation.

    At the end of CR the novel Mathis tells Bond to hunt down SMERSH to protect the people he cares about. Craig's Bond wanting to smash SPECTRE to avenge Vesper, Mathis and Fields gives us the personal angle Mendes and co desperately crave for Craig's Bond.
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I think we got the closure on that character. Bringing Yusef back would almost instantly imply bringing Vesper back into the story, i.e. mentioning her or whatever. I think we can put all that behind us now - or: Bond got his solace. White is another thing entirely.
    But why not having her mentioned, Dimi? Bond from the books visited her gravestone once in a year during his annual travelling to Royal-les-eaux since the first novel. That's where he met Tracy, right?

    Yeah but to my knowledge that was only mentioned once (in OHMSS). In between those novels the stories never took time to have Bond visit Vesper's grave. It would be repetitive and unnecessary.

    Yes it would. Thats why Fleming doesnt do it. He allows the reader to work out that when he says Bond undertakes an annual pilgrimage to her grave it means he therefore doesnt need to write it in every book for it to happen.

    I really wouldnt mind ClarkDevlin's idea of Bond visiting Vesper's grave at some point before Craig bows out. Just a short one minute scene would do. I dont think hes suggesting they do it in every film.

    So much of this is relevent to NTTD. Great job! @TheWizardOfIce
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,346
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I wouldn't necessarily be upset if they brought back Yusef and / or mentioned Vesper, I simply fail to see why they'd do that. I much sooner expect a passing reference to the former M, and even that is not something I desire. Bond films aren't into that level of "myth building". However, I admit that Tracy was referenced twice after OHMSS and the word 'predecessor' was used by both M in GE and Q/R in DAD. So if they mention Vesper in the proper context, I might even like it.

    Personally I consider Blofeld without Tracy just another Dr No, Goldfinger, Stromberg, or Drax. Its the killing of Tracy that elevates Blofeld to nemesis status (particularly in the books) so given that a remake of OHMSS doesnt seem likely then I would be inclined to have Bond discover (at the very end of SP or in B25) that it is Blofeld who was behind Vesper's death and it was he who ordered honey trap Yusuf to work his magic on female agents.

    This would make Bond's final battle with Blofeld in B25 and B26 the personal vendetta of the books and would make up for the rather underwhelming showdown with Yusuf as we see Bond properly get his revenge - 'Die Blofeld, die!!'

    By bringing back Mr White they are clearly trying to tie the whole Craig era together (rather hamfistedly IMO given it was clearly never intended from the start) by presumably having Quantum turn into SPECTRE. If this is the case then I dont really see the logic of ignoring Vesper and the fact Bond has a very personal grudge with the organisation.

    At the end of CR the novel Mathis tells Bond to hunt down SMERSH to protect the people he cares about. Craig's Bond wanting to smash SPECTRE to avenge Vesper, Mathis and Fields gives us the personal angle Mendes and co desperately crave for Craig's Bond.
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I think we got the closure on that character. Bringing Yusef back would almost instantly imply bringing Vesper back into the story, i.e. mentioning her or whatever. I think we can put all that behind us now - or: Bond got his solace. White is another thing entirely.
    But why not having her mentioned, Dimi? Bond from the books visited her gravestone once in a year during his annual travelling to Royal-les-eaux since the first novel. That's where he met Tracy, right?

    Yeah but to my knowledge that was only mentioned once (in OHMSS). In between those novels the stories never took time to have Bond visit Vesper's grave. It would be repetitive and unnecessary.

    Yes it would. Thats why Fleming doesnt do it. He allows the reader to work out that when he says Bond undertakes an annual pilgrimage to her grave it means he therefore doesnt need to write it in every book for it to happen.

    I really wouldnt mind ClarkDevlin's idea of Bond visiting Vesper's grave at some point before Craig bows out. Just a short one minute scene would do. I dont think hes suggesting they do it in every film.

    So much of this is relevent to NTTD. Great job! @TheWizardOfIce

    I love these old disussions, to see who was on the money and who wasn't.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,178
    O'Brady had it spot on, with Bond visiting Vesper's grave and the theme drifting in.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Venutius, I honestly don't even know what I wrote way back when. I know I had a lot of wishes of how Vesper's arc could be addressed later on, which NTTD really impressed me with. I have wanted to see Bond visit her grave from the very first moment I found out about the literary Bond making that trip annually, and the film really did it beautifully. You feel the understated pain that Bond still has over what happened with Vesper, which I thought was realistic. No matter how much time passes and even if you love again, you never forget those you've loved and lost before. When Vesper died, a part of Bond went with her, and his "I miss you," is quiet but so impactful. I also like that the scene seems to address Bond's own need to ask for forgiveness from Vesper. The focus was always on Bond forgiving her, but not the other way around. Bond clearly wants Vesper to know that he doesn't hold anything against her, and can look back in hindsight and understand why she acted as she did, reinforced by how he feels at the end of QoS.

    The scene wasn't just a great way to spring board all the drama in the rest of the film and Bond's paranoia and forced separation with Madeleine, it also underscored the legacy of Eva Green's performance and Vesper as a force in Bond's life that changed him forever. It's also painful because what happened with Vesper closed Bond up so much, and it was only Madeleine that he was able to truly open up to again, and at the beginning of the film he feels like Vesper's betrayal has happened all over again. You can feel his anger and fury so clearly, because we've seen how hard it was for him to try and love again, only for it to fall apart undeservedly. Truly brutal of Blofeld to do, worse than just killing Madeleine. With her dead, Bond can mourn and move on, but to make it seem like she had done what Vesper did all over again, it hit Bond harder than anything else, and gave him that feeling of emptiness and pain that death alone couldn't provide.
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