SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • Posts: 3,164
    HUGE heads up - Gawker just ran a piece confirming that there are full script drafts in the Sony email leak, pretty much spoiling the film based on these drafts too.
  • leas_moleleas_mole love is the promise of suffering
    Posts: 574
    yep I saw this too. I have decided not to post the link. Search for it if you dare...
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,619
    I think it's truly disgusting how the American media basically helps Noth Korea with all these articles about the leaks.
    Anyway, it looks like Swann is Mr. White's daughter.
  • Posts: 4,622
    actually, I think the rushed look of the leaked notes adds to authenticity as opposed to taking away from it.
    remember, these are said to be senior people engaging in informal correspondence.
    I would expect they would dash stuff off as quickly as possible. the correspondence is only meant to engage the person they are sending it to.
    Some of the correspondence also looks like it may be English as non-first lanugage, some might be typos.
    But if you are just trying to dash your thoughts out on the numerous items that might cross your desk on a daily basis, I think its going to look rushed.
    Cap locks is just a way of typing faster. You don't have to worry about hitting the shift key.
    We take a little more care with our correspondence here on the board, as we would ideally like all the other members to be able to read it without suffering too much pain ;) but a decision-maker-type in a corporate setting, I think would dash off notes as quickly and expediently as possible, while secretaries or personal assistant types would clearn-up and format any formal correspondence or missive.
    Even this simple post, I had to go over a few times, to catch typos ,missing words, punctuation etc, and even then I'm sure I missed stuff.
    But if you got a lot of stuff on your desk to plow through, meetings, people to talk too, stuff to review, decisions to make etc fussing over quick back-and-forth communication is really going to slow you down.

    What I think they do, is that they eventually meet after reviewing the back and forth and then they thrash things out verbally, and if anything formal needs to be written up, that's what secretaries and admin assistants are for.

    ==re script leak, I really don't think this is a huge deal. Well it is but it also isn't.
    Major media will report certain things, as they are already doing. We're already seeing the Sony leaks as a cited source in numerous media articles (bond is only a small part of the equation)
    What will drive the success of this film is ultimately marketing and a well-produced film.
    The marketers just have to continue their marketing efforts, and the producers have to continue with their film craft.
    If the movie is up to snuff, it should sell zillions of tickets, just like its predecesssor,
    and as we all know, all the plot elements that mattered in SF were fully leaked long before the films release, including the really big surprises, and that was without actual script leaks. Didn't hurt SF in the least.
  • Posts: 3,164
    I just hope that the scale of the leak doesn't deter the creative team and they don't start going all QoS to spite/one up the leak. As Vauxhall on CBn mentioned, the issues have been fixed apparently so there :P

    KBO as they say.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Yeah, I agree that the script leaking is not really a big deal. What I am really concerned about is the fact that they were still very unsatisfied with the whole third act back in August and that they were still working on the script last month.

    They started working on the script back in early 2013. Why does it take them so long to write a decent screenplay???
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 2,115
    Why 007 fans should care about the Sony hacking beyond SPECTRE spoilers:

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/sony-watch-is-007-friendly-execs-position-imperiled/

    No spoilers in post.
  • Posts: 725
    Most of the news about Bond implies that SP is going to cost about $50 million more than SF. Horrors! Given the cheap SF locations, I am very happy they are going for better locations, and how can they not be more expensive. After a billion plus gross, and SF saving MGM's ass, they've totally earned it. And the $300m figure is meaningless. Those budgets are so clouded with promotion deals, and every kind of accounting dance, the figure is just meaningless. Also, film scripts are constantly getting leaked and this SP script has probably already had more drafts than WW II, which I am very happy about as I am no fan of the vastly overrated Logan. Films are regularly rewritten throughout production, so the worry about a weak third act seems premature. Only the big stunts are inflexible and there seems to be no whining about them in the email leaks, other than costs. Boo Hoo about costs.

    But it would seem that at some point EON has to do some damage control. The Sony hack is of course horrible as it is creating real harm to many innocent staff and it will no doubt seriously damage important big shot relationships. I feel badly about the thousands of Sony staff who are just trying to make a living and now have to worry about possible identity theft. I do worry about the endless amounts of garbage and gossip in that huge 10 year email data load and how it could really harm SP. My other big concern is their current cash flow. The Times story about Sony killing current filming is scary. One would hope that EON and MGM can carry the vendor and staff payroll costs re SP until Sony rights itself. Since all large companies are totally dependent these days on their tech., Lord knows how Sony is processing their billings and payroll given their network still seems mostly shut down.

    For me, so far, the Bond end is not nearly as bad as the hyperventilating about Bond in the press makes it appear. Maybe this will serve as some major hype for the film, if the press doesn't dredge up more damaging emails. Big if. For sure, the Sony end of it is horrible and Lord knows where all the damage will lead.
  • All hell is breaking loose on Friday night, Nov. 12. Gawker has seen a script and is posting about it.
  • This is like Skyfall for real.
  • Here's the Gawker post. DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE SPOILERS.

    http://gawker.com/new-bond-script-leaks-execs-scrambling-to-fix-awful-en-1670479885
  • Posts: 4,619
    Yes, the screenplay is out there. No, I haven't found it yet and no, I won't share it with others once I have it. By the way, several members of this forum already do have the script and they are all awfully quiet...
  • If Sony doesn't like the 3rd act than it's probably excellent. Don't forget that this is the same studio that looked at the final drafts for Spiderman 3 and The Amazing Spiderman 2 and said "ok this seems ready to go". The majority of these producers have never directed, written, or edited a film in their lives yet they see fit to tell directors, writers, and editors how to do their jobs.
  • If Sony doesn't like the 3rd act than it's probably excellent. Don't forget that this is the same studio that looked at the final drafts for Spiderman 3 and The Amazing Spiderman 2 and said "ok this seems ready to go". The majority of these producers have never directed, written, or edited a film in their lives yet they see fit to tell directors, writers, and editors how to do their jobs.

    Except that people at MGM are saying the same thing too (Not that it adds much credibility).
  • Yes, the screenplay is out there. No, I haven't found it yet and no, I won't share it with others once I have it. By the way, several members of this forum already do have the script and they are all awfully quiet...

    And not a word from production either. You would think if they were worried that the film is not shaping up in terms of audience expectations they would release some form of statement.

    Instead, they are still filming and not holding anything back. This tells me that either the leak does not show the most recent changes that Mendes and co. brought to the script that addresses the executives' concerns, or perhaps they know we are being spoiled and saying "screw it, past the point of no return." For all we know, the same conversations might have arisen in Skyfall (bad 3rd act, inconsistent tone, weird dialogue).

    Personally, I trust the crew to deliver a solid Bond film. Of course Mendes has directed bad films - just as Logan has wrote bad screenplays. And the fact that this was delayed and polished throughout the script just so they could get it right is something to be recognized.
  • Posts: 4,619
    I don't think they have much reason to be worried. Even if they made the screenplay available on the official 007 website, the large majority of people would still never read it.
  • Posts: 725
    You are so 100% right. These exec's have less insight into a hugely complex Bond script than the waiters in the Sony Exec dining room. It's a shame their idiot comments are being taken seriously by all of the equally self important entertainment press. I just hope there is nothing more damaging in that huge email dump, if not, the press will move on to the next piece of gossip. I am no fan of studio heads but getting films made has got to be hell, and I'd like to see 10 years of emails published of all the holier than though types screaming for Pascal's head . She is a major backer of Bond and if she gets canned, Bond won't win, particularly since it looks like MGM wants to make some serious cuts in the budget. Hopefully EON has the clout to tell them to shove it. I think the news that they tossed a terrific actor like Ejiofor to save a million sad.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 2,115
    Deleted repetitive post.

    My reaction (Joke only, no actual information):

    http://www.welovemoviesmorethanyou.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/0000223050.jpg
  • Posts: 725
    I don't think they have much reason to be worried. Even if they made the screenplay available on the official 007 website, the large majority of people would still never read it.

    I think that is key. Only hyper Bond fans like us are following this closely. 99% of the people who will see this film will not be reading this stuff and will go see the film unaware of all the spoilers. EON will state that the shooting script has major changes from all the draft stuff online. And if the shooting script has indeed leaked, then they will make all kinds of changes just to undermine the leak. They are at least lucky in that they just started filming, and can still make changes.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 1,778
    If Sony doesn't like the 3rd act than it's probably excellent. Don't forget that this is the same studio that looked at the final drafts for Spiderman 3 and The Amazing Spiderman 2 and said "ok this seems ready to go". The majority of these producers have never directed, written, or edited a film in their lives yet they see fit to tell directors, writers, and editors how to do their jobs.

    Except that people at MGM are saying the same thing too (Not that it adds much credibility).

    I tried not to read to much but I heard that one of their complaints is that the climax isn't large-scale enough. Personally I'd prefer a more intimate and personal low-key climax. Not every big budget blockbuster needs to have a Michael Bay like orgy of explosions, cgi, and destruction.
  • Posts: 3,164
    If Sony doesn't like the 3rd act than it's probably excellent. Don't forget that this is the same studio that looked at the final drafts for Spiderman 3 and The Amazing Spiderman 2 and said "ok this seems ready to go". The majority of these producers have never directed, written, or edited a film in their lives yet they see fit to tell directors, writers, and editors how to do their jobs.

    Except that people at MGM are saying the same thing too (Not that it adds much credibility).

    I tried not to read to much but I heard that one of their complaints is that the climax is large-scale enough. Personally I'd prefer a more intimate and personal low-key climax. Not every big budget blockbuster needs to have a Michael Bay like orgy of explosions, cgi, and mayhem.

    This is probably more about the threat and motivation of SPECTRE/Oberhauser than "scale".
  • I just read the Gawker article and tbh I agree with it and the guy sending the emails. Seemed very good for a while but then fell apart massively towards the end. I'm glad they did so many rewrites.

    For the record I still think this will be Craig's last and if it isn't I think it could feel forced.
    Throughout the movie Bond is told to get a life by M and MP and we hear from people like Mr White that he'll die alone and all this. So when he finally kills Blofeld, the man who orchestrated the events of CR, QoS and SF, he feels it's job done. SPECTRE are gone and he's earned his victory. When he throws his gun away and retiring he's finally getting a life like MP told him too.

    I think having another film when Bond comes out of retirement would ruin the character arc of this one (and so Bond finally walks away from MI6, perhaps finding peace.... until the next movie where he comes back and kills bad guys again) and also, since SP will tie together all the other films as part of one arc, it could feel tacked on.

    The only way I could ever see a fifth Craig film working is if they let Blofeld live. Then in Bond 25 have Blofeld kill the woman Blofeld has settled down with and Bond can go on a revenge mission, they could use a lot of YOLT which would be cool. But even then I think you'd be sort of undoing all the progress of Bond's character arc in SP and it looks like Blofeld will probably die anyway.

    The one thing I'm sort of unhappy about is the Blofeld plot. If it works well it could be cool, revealing that he's behind this intricate web of conspiracy leading back to CR. But it could also seem forced, melodramatic and unrealistic (Blofeld's dad loved Bond more than him... So Blofeld kills his dad and becomes leader of an international criminal organisation, then when Bond becomes a 00 he finds out and focuses all his energy on ruining Bond's life? It sounds pretty dumb to me, all that because he thought his dad liked Bond better).
  • I just read the Gawker article and tbh I agree with it and the guy sending the emails. Seemed very good for a while but then fell apart massively towards the end. I'm glad they did so many rewrites.

    For the record I still think this will be Craig's last and if it isn't I think it could feel forced.
    Throughout the movie Bond is told to get a life by M and MP and we hear from people like Mr White that he'll die alone and all this. So when he finally kills Blofeld, the man who orchestrated the events of CR, QoS and SF, he feels it's job done. SPECTRE are gone and he's earned his victory. When he throws his gun away and retiring he's finally getting a life like MP told him too.

    I think having another film when Bond comes out of retirement would ruin the character arc of this one (and so Bond finally walks away from MI6, perhaps finding peace.... until the next movie where he comes back and kills bad guys again) and also, since SP will tie together all the other films as part of one arc, it could feel tacked on.

    The only way I could ever see a fifth Craig film working is if they let Blofeld live. Then in Bond 25 have Blofeld kill the woman Blofeld has settled down with and Bond can go on a revenge mission, they could use a lot of YOLT which would be cool. But even then I think you'd be sort of undoing all the progress of Bond's character arc in SP and it looks like Blofeld will probably die anyway.

    The one thing I'm sort of unhappy about is the Blofeld plot. If it works well it could be cool, revealing that he's behind this intricate web of conspiracy leading back to CR. But it could also seem forced, melodramatic and unrealistic (Blofeld's dad loved Bond more than him... So Blofeld kills his dad and becomes leader of an international criminal organisation, then when Bond becomes a 00 he finds out and focuses all his energy on ruining Bond's life? It sounds pretty dumb to me, all that because he thought his dad liked Bond better).

    Whether it should thematically be Craig's last film or not he's still signed on for Bond 25. There've been rumors for a while that SP and Bond 25 will be one interconnected story so this could possibly be a fake-out. There's a possibility that Blofeld won't reveal himself until Bond 25 as Waltz's character is never referred to as Blofeld. Or maybe Bond 25 will it's own stand-alone film and give a Craig a more classic film to go out on.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Aww, poor Ernst, didn't get any love and attention. Can someone just give this guy a hug and pat him on the head.

    For this to work, they need to give Blofeld the voldermort treatment of villainy.
  • He signed on for Bond 25 back when Logan was writing the script. It was originally meant to be a two part story but that changed once Mendes came onboard. They could have renegotiated Craig's contract after this.

    Waltz's character is referred to as Blofeld in the leaked emails. And Obenhauser seems to be the leader of SPECTRE since he's apparently behind the events of CR, QoS and SF. So I'm pretty sure he's Blofeld.
  • Posts: 9,843
    I have said before Craig can easily come back...if
    we either go the OHMSS route and the woman bond loves is killed or the Hildebrand Rarity route where bond is relaxing in his retirement and is thrown into conspiracy when a random murder happens and the murders are then after him


    Either way I am excited and nervous if this is done right I will love it if it's done poor I won't...

    My issue is
    not with the ending but with M and Moneypenny telling bond to get a life didn't we. Have this in Skyfall and didn't they realize at the end bond needed to be around because of people like silva
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I'm worried ..my same worries that the script and film went the wrong direction. Billion dollar Bond sounds great but if this one bombs then what happens? Studio exes whom lest we forget MGM owns half of Bond thanks to Harry Swaltzman(sp) selling his part to them can't justify more or afford more... I don't know. I was never happy with Logan and they just missed the while point from the start...

    Or and I hope they caught that and corrected with the rewrites... all like the script and despite what's floating around filming started with with an agreed upon script. I remember both Craig and Mendes liking this script more.

    Now third thing what if they do but we fans and general public don't buy it? Why o why did they start with Logan!!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited December 2014 Posts: 4,583
    For the record I still think this will be Craig's last and if it isn't I think it could feel forced.

    As much as I love DC and want him in Bond 25 and beyond, I think he's done. He's going to be 47 next March. This means he'll likely be 50 when filming starts on Bond 25.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Which is why SPECTRE would work really well as a finale for him, provided it's done right (especially the third act, they def have reworked it past that early Oct draft that Gawker has, the first two acts from what I have seen/heard sound really really great IMO)

    TRUST MENDES :D

    @risico007
    the emails are making a way bigger deal about the get a life line (which isn't apparently said verbatim) than it is, same goes for ending which apparently isn't as a downer than everyone thinks it is
  • Personally EON never take chances with new or undiscovered talent and shy away from Auteurs who's films have their own identity and simply go for those who seem to be the flavour of the month. Tarantino would write and make a very good Bond Film, as would Refn, Nolan and Bigalow.

    I'll use True Detective as my conclusion. The first series brilliant and Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson, was not flavour of the month and playing against type and this made it brilliant. The producers wanting to have another hit have gone for the safe option Farrell and Vaungh, actors they think can do this and on paper look like a cool duo.

    What they should have done is gone for in TD2 is actors playing against type and picked John Malkovic Viggo Mortensen, who both would make very good Blofelds. However, I feel it is now time to bring in new talent and not go for what they think or who they think is cool and try have another SF as we can see makes very big problems.
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