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Of course I want to beeping continue!
Re. Bond's childhood. Yawn. I've read my Flemings several times each. Each time I learn his parents were killed in a moutaineering accident or something like that, and he was raised by his aunt. That's about it. And that's quite enough, or at least it was for Fleming.
And even the Vesper thing he was over by the next book, LALD.
Apologies. Came out wrong. I was actually commiserating. We had a communication breakdown. My fault.
:)) There's a squid! DN tribute? The squid lives in the river that Bond tosses his gun into, in the fake, or maybe-not-fake ending, from draft-leak, # whatever.
Actually, in leaked draft #85 I think, by the Pinewood janitor, we learn that Bond underwent a change of heart about retiring (maybe he and Swan had a fight). He jumps into the river to retrieve the gun, but ends up fighting the squid. Madeleine Swan, left at side of river, screaming "James James James!" a la Stacey Sutton.
Are we to understand that the Bunt lesbian woman has been cut, from latest leak. :-O
And this character had such potential. Irma Bunt 2.0. bummer.
In all seriousness, sort of, I do think they probably have this story figured out. Mendes probably has the story where he wants it by now, and is busy going about the business of crafting the film.
My guess is that Oberhauser was indeed motivated by daddy issues. This is not quite Fleming's OP.
Franz does have personal vendetta against Bond. Hopefully Mendes is smart enough to give it all some plausible context.
Off the top of my head, I don't see how they tie this in with CR. I could be missing something, or even quite a bit.
But wasn't Vesper only blackmailed so that she could help Bond lose to Le Chiffre, and wasn't Le Chiffre only in trouble because he gambled away a pile of cash on a scheme gone wrong, although the scheme was thwarted by Bond.
OK, maybe the Quantum vengeance was aimed at Bond because Bond screwed up Le Chiffre-Quantum's airport scam.
But even then, how could they know Bond would fall for Vesper? I don't know. There needs to be some explaining I think, but what bothers is that Logan or whoever, cooked this all up well after the fact.
I don't think the SP scenario was ever envisioned when the CR screenplay, or even the QoS story was being concocted.
As this point, we need trust in Mendes to have got all the stupidity sorted out in advance of filming, which somehow I think he has probably done.
There is no reason this film, won't be a huge box-office success as long as its a good film, and everything suggests it should be. The movie's release isn't for another 11 months. The leaks only helped us suss out the story earlier than normal.
I had both QoS and SF pretty much figured out before I saw either in theatres.
Re Craig retiring. It's only a scenario. If his story arc is concluded, it allows for plausible exit, HOWEVER, by no means does he have to. He's not too old. In fact he looks great.
He's easily got 2 more films in him, if he wants them IMO.
Dreaming up yet another personal-journey drama, should be no problem.
Thanks... I just felt it needed saying, since some on here may actually be feeling guilty/unsure about discussing these leaks given other fan's views. As long as it's on this thread, there should be no guilt whatsoever IMO.
Agreed. I think they've got it all sorted out. Mendes & Craig were very confident last week. All the script rewrites & bringing in Butterworth etc. indicates they took this seriously.
The only concern/comment I have is with this 'personal arc' continuing on for another 2 movies. Even Nolan knew to call it quits after 3 with Batman because it becomes increasingly difficult to concoct deeply personal scenarios that make any coherent sense every time without it feeling 'forced'. The same applies to Greengrass/Damon with Bourne (although I realize they are coming back after a long respite in 2016).
It looks like even Craig/EON know this, because at the end of both Quantum & especially SF, they tease us into thinking we are going to get a normal mission next time.....only to come back to this personal stuff again. It's like they can't help themselves. I think Craig himself said at the end of QoS that he was happy that the Vesper thing was done with....
The next one will be about MP's past in Jamaica, or M's time in Ireland as a child ;)
In all seriousness, I really do want to see Craig in one clean, no holds barred, impersonal mission before he moves on.
The possibilities are endless ;) I'm kind of hoping for some fresh Olga-Camille story. There's a loose end there that needs tying up too, unless Bond is in love with Swan by movie's end. hmmm. Getting ahead.
You couldn't be more wrong. The leaked screenplay is from mid-October 2014 according to people who have read it.
Precisely. Craig is 46 and will be 47 by the time this is released.
Brosnan was 46 when TWINE was released and made DAD 3 years later and was expected to do a 5th movie. Craig isn't going anywhere.
In all honesty guys. It should not be a discussion about age! The discussion should be about one's physical fitness. Come on guys. Daniel Craig's body feels (if only I COULD feel) and looks like a 30 year old! It's unprecedented really. Just compare his physical fitness with Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery at their ages.
Sean Connery was 41 when he did "Diamonds" in 1971. By jolly, he looks like 15 years older than Daniel Craig is now (46)! Don't forget that guys. If Daniel continues to be a gym junkie, if he continues going to the gym like at least 4 times a wekk, then by all means I want him to STAY. I want him then to do at least two more films!
That's why, IMO, there are quite a few people that feels like this kind of piracy *at the moment* is really different from the usual leaks.
You want to see something that will challenge your idea this movie industry actually cares about ethics ? See this :
Sony fired most of its IT low paid crew in order to preserve the insane amount of money perceived by some individuals, who now we know break all the security rules on a daily basis ? Not many people will cry for them. Note that the damage done by leaking personal info of every workers is less talked about, while it definitely creates more damage on a personal level to them (as I've already said several times, I have friends of friends who are concerned directly). Even if it won't impact SPECTRE, these are the real issues. And it's a good sign IMO that the Internet is not full of data to explain about to use these informations to spend someone's else money on Ebay...
Those who did the leak even 'seem' to care a bit about not having a too bad image :
"Message to SPE Staffers: We have a plan to release emails and privacy of the Sony Pictures employees.If you don't want your privacy to be released, tell us your name and business title to take off your data." (warning made by those who promise to release even more Sony data on Christmas)
http://www.networkworld.com/article/2859473/microsoft-subnet/sony-hacked-in-feb-knew-about-huge-security-flaws-before-cybersecurity-train-wreck.html
(zero movie spoilers in this link)
I've talked about physical fitness at length but people insist on bringing his age into it which is fine so I put Craig's age into perspective and compared it to other Bond actors.
Alas, that will never happen. Fool me once, etc.
I think, we fans just try to be polite. So many of us desperately want Bond back on mission.
We thought we were going there after the CR re-boot interlude, especially with the upbeat way the film ended, but then we got more Haggis, and Forster to boot.
We try to make the best of the Craig era. Mind you, some of us lap it up, and all the power to you.
The record doesn't lie though. Daniel Craig wants personal journey films, and that's what we will get. Daniel Craig does not want to do films, like Sean and Rog did in the heydey of Bond.
Craig's films have been an alternative take on Bond since day one.
The Craig-era is a re-booted effort aimed at exploring the psyche of James Bond, delving into freshly minted origins, and how such experiences shaped him.
This approach will not end.
For me QoS was such a downer, and it barely ended on an up note, more of a flat note, until the JB Theme was cranked up full, as if to assugage those that had squirmed in seat most of the film, wondering when the recognizable Bond film was going to start.
I wasn't fooled. I knew the jig was up. Cards were on the table. Nothing was going to change. And I was right. We got another personal issues journey with SF.
Many of us thought the final scenes of SF though were setting up for a return to Bond-on-mission film. Much ink has been spilled on Bond websites, giddy with anticipation of such a turn of events, but......
Really, we knew it wasn't coming and it isnt. Leopards dont' change their spots.
It's never coming until we get a soft re-boot with a new actor.
However as @bondjames points out, it is very puzzling the way Eon insists on pretending they are done with the drama, with the endings that they tag on, which seem to point to all personal issues having been resolved, and that it is indeed time for Craig to do a "normal" Bond film, and then of course it doesn't happen.
I'm only speculating, but it does seem they are somewhat selfconscious, fully aware that many fans, want the ship to "right" itself, so they toss these bones to soften any blowback, and leave upbeat final impression.
What I think is going on is this. Babs is a practical sort. She is going to ride the Craig pony to the end. She's got a company to run. The new films make money. She'll give Craig what he wants, drama directors etc, until his time is done, and only then will she ponder a new direction.
So SP is the latest installment in the ongoing 007 drama, As The Bond World Turns. Nothing is going to change on the drama issues front.
Which brings us to the question of Logan. When you commit to such a "radical" change of direction for a film series, it does bring out the radicals.
Remember, Haggis said he wanted to turn Bond on his ear. He really wanted to shake things up. He wanted Bond getting girls pregnant, being a daddy. Babs and MGW, had to reign him in.
And now of course, it appears that Logan dove right into the rabbit hole and came out all Mad Hatter. Tanner a traitor, killing himself, Leiter trying to kill Bond, and God knows what else.
Really, should we expect anything else from these writers.
So, for those of us that don't like the Craig era, we just make due. We wait it out.
Make the best of it.
So on that note of resignation, I do believe Mendes can at least salvage a watchable film. Craig will have some good Bondian moments. The girls will look real good. Henchman looks solid. Good action. Nice car. More extensive use of locations.
We will get a well crafted film. I am sure of that, but the drama is not going anywhere.
I am hoping though, that we can get some definitive leak as to what the status of Blofeld is by film's end ie, when Bond kills Oberhauser, is he actually killing Blofeld too?
Is SP truly a one-and-done Blofeld film, and then it's goodbye Ernst -back to the bottom of the smokestack with you.
so because SP does seem to be shaping up to be somewhat of a dark and wild ride, in anticipation, I have moved it to the top of my alternative Bond film rankings, ahead of NSNA.
Adjusted rankings. :)
1. SP
2. NSNA
3. CR
4. SF
5. QoS
Also FWIW, revised third act looks to be MUCH better than Gawker put it in their now obsolete version and as the notes from Sony say, the first two acts/100 pages are really great. can't wait to see how it looks on the big screen
I saw Craig last year. He didn't look 45 at all....he looked 55. He really looked that weathered and exhausted. As far as him being in shape...Craig isn't always in shape. He hates working out and would rather spend his days drinking and smoking. He has said this. However, he seems to have kept himself in better shape between SF and SP than he did between CR and QoS, and then QoS and SF. Perhaps he learned: best not to have to go into six months of training hell.
That said, it's not about how he looks. It's how he feels. And only Craig can determine if he's got a fifth film in him. I think it's not out of the question, based on what he's said over the years, that once he's done with SP, he waves his hands and says, "I can't do another one." Unless, of course, the script features fewer action sequences.
This is related. Trend actually began in the Brosnan era, but came out full in the Craig films.
https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/the-21st-century-007-meme-a-bond-who-isnt-bond-yet/
Excellent piece as usual. Yes, trend did materialize with DAD. At least with DAD, Bond got his mojo back in reasonably short order. The scenario wasn't dragged through the film. It was more an interlude.
We all have our issues with DAD, but not surprisingly, what I've always hated about this film, is the gall of the producers, to have Bond locked in a Korean prison camp for 14 months. What the hell! So un-Bondian. I did not need that level of faux realism, thank you.
Talk about losing mojo. That's more depressing than anything Craig-Bond has had to deal with.
Excellent analysis @timmer. I agree wholeheartedly.
Craig was brought in to add dramatic heft to the Bond universe. I'm 100% sure that's why he agreed to do it. He has not done anything remotely like this in his career before or since. It's not really his thing generally. So he must have been given assurances about what he could do with the role. EON will milk his acting prowess for as long he cares to stay, quite consciously.
Therefore, despite my wishes for a regular non-personal mission, I too don't think we'll see it until Craig's tenure ends.
EON have gone to some lengths to take risks with screenwriters and directors. Paul Haggis and John Logan are known for their dramatic flair. Marc Forster, as director, is known for this too, rather than his action capabilities. The same applies to Mendes. They must know that going with this kind of arthouse crowd can potentially backfire, but I admire them for going this route. I believe they know, in Craig, they have an actor who can salvage a risky venture with his acting capabilities, so it's their best chance at going for it.
I propose that this character journey that they are on actually began during Dalton's time, although in far less obvious ways. There was a conscious effort after Moore packed it in to add some depth to Bond's character. To humanize him and make him more vulnerable. They didn't do it as much in TLD as it was a transition movie, but they definitely started to focus on it in LTK.....the public just wasn't ready yet. Then they started to pepper it through Brosnan's run (started in GE with the speech by Natalya on the beach about why he's alone, continued in TND with the Paris angle, and further continued with TWINE). I've said before that I believe Brosnan did not have the acting abilities to really pull it off, and I think Babs knew this, which is why she insisted on an actor's actor for his replacement rather than another 'pretty boy'.
I agree that Babs knows exactly what she's doing, and that she will let Craig continue on this dramatic run until he decides he doesn't want to do Bond any more. Then, as mentioned, she will bring it back full circle to a regular mission for the next Bond.
In a way her relationship with Craig is very similar to Cubby's with Moore.....very trusting and fully supportive. They let Moore do his thing for most of his run. FYEO was a dramatic departure, true, but it was not written for Moore. Moore was meant to retire after MR, but he chose to come back, and that is why FYEO looked so different. When he decided to stay on after FYEO, they went back to doing what 'fit' his style, hence OP & AVTAK.
On a related note, I'm not surprised
While it's different to what we first heard, I still think this will be Craig's last.
At one point Madeline says "I'm not going to watch you die. When you decide James that you want to leave this life I'll be hear for you, but I won't wait forever"
Then at the end Bond throws his gun away and leaves with her. Plus again, there's a sense of finality to it all. The links and references to CR/QoS/SF, the title sequence essentially being planned as sort of an OHMSS esque recap of the Craig era, etc. Plus maybe I'm remembering this bit wrong, not certain, but the 00 section has been abolished by the end of the movie. I really think this will be the last film in this universe.
I still think it'll be Craig's last. Blofeld might be alive at the end but to me Bond sparing him is more of a symbol of him leaving his old life of killing behind (along with throwing his gun away), not a loose end for a sequel to tie up.
It's not like taking Bond into a new directon was Craig's idea and I would not expect things to change once Craig leaves. Don't forget that Chris Nolan will probably direct a Bond film shortly after the Craig era.
You know this "alternative Bond film rankings" of yours is complete nonsense, right? The last 3 Bond films are no more "alternative" than any of the 20 Bond movies before that.
The script ISN'T online, the closest we get is a more recent outline for the script that leaked last night can be found elsewhere.
Those who have read it, thoughts?
If the script wasn't online, then why would EON make a statement? Something to think about...