SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • I think SP will be Craig's last and Bond 25 will be another (sort of, not a new origin story or anything) reboot that's set in a different universe to the Craig era. Maybe they'll even get Christopher Nolan to direct.

    That's been my prediction since the first leaks and after reading the recent outline (see my spoiler tagged post above for my thoughts) I'm pretty certain it'll be the last Daniel Craig movie. I could be wrong and if I am then I'll happily admit it but for now I'm sticking by my prediction.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,164
    antovolk wrote: »
    The script ISN'T online, the closest we get is a more recent outline for the script that leaked last night can be found elsewhere.

    Those who have read it, thoughts?

    If the script wasn't online, then why would EON make a statement? Something to think about...

    EON made a statement that the script(s) are included in the documents that leaked - no one outright posted the .pdf or whatever yet of the script that you can easily find, you'd have to download the full email leak to get it. Bits and pieces from the emails are being pieced together and leaked out/posted by news outlets and other people too, like that outline doc and those notes.

    So in my case what I mean by online - easy to find and download without having to download the full email leak - if that makes sense.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,619
    I think SP will be Craig's last and Bond 25 will be another (sort of, not a new origin story or anything) reboot that's set in a different universe to the Craig era. Maybe they'll even get Christopher Nolan to direct.

    That's been my prediction since the first leaks and after reading the recent outline (see my spoiler tagged post above for my thoughts) I'm pretty certain it'll be the last Daniel Craig movie. I could be wrong and if I am then I'll happily admit it but for now I'm sticking by my prediction.

    The reason I do NOT think Spectre will be Craig's last Bond film (ending spoilers):
    At the end of an earlier version of the script Bond kills Blofeld, and clearly leaves MI6. In a newer version he does NOT kill Blofeld and doesn't seem to leave MI6.

    By the way, I feel sorry for GustaveGraves... He will be disappointed once he finds out that Spectre isn't really a snowy Bond film (and by that I mean that Austria is not featured as heavily as we thought and it's not the location of the finale)...
  • Which version are you on about? I read an outline from November (so I think it's the final script) and in that version...
    Bond spares Blofeld but does leave MI6. I went into detail in my other post
    Just read an outline which I can't post on here because of the new rules regarding the leaks. This actually seems really good. Could be not just the best Craig film but one of the best Bond's ever. Can't wait now.

    While it's different to what we first heard, I still think this will be Craig's last.

    At one point Madeline says "I'm not going to watch you die. When you decide James that you want to leave this life I'll be hear for you, but I won't wait forever"

    Then at the end Bond throws his gun away and leaves with her. Plus again, there's a sense of finality to it all. The links and references to CR/QoS/SF, the title sequence essentially being planned as sort of an OHMSS esque recap of the Craig era, etc. Plus maybe I'm remembering this bit wrong, not certain, but the 00 section has been abolished by the end of the movie. I really think this will be the last film in this universe.

    I still think it'll be Craig's last. Blofeld might be alive at the end but to me Bond sparing him is more of a symbol of him leaving his old life of killing behind (along with throwing his gun away), not a loose end for a sequel to tie up.

  • Posts: 4,619
    Which version are you on about? I read an outline from November (so I think it's the final script) and in that version...
    Bond spares Blofeld but does leave MI6. I went into detail in my other post
    He doesn't really leave MI6 at the end of the outline. He just tosses the gun in the riveer and in a later scene drives away in the DB5. By the way, why on Earth does the bloody DB5 have to be back YET AGAIN???
  • But Madeline told him that she'd only be with him if he walked away and then he leaves with her. He might not have said "I quit" but him throwing his gun away and leaving with Madeline makes me think he has.

    Plus the 00 section seems to have been abolished (although maybe that would be undone once C is revealed as a traitor to the goverment) and all the links and references to the other films make me think it's his last.

    And Blofeld might not be dead but we can assume that SPECTRE are pretty much done and I thought him sparing Blofeld was more a sign of him walking away from his old life of killing rather than a loose end to tie uo in a sequel.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,619
    The question is: if this turns out to be his last and they already know that he won't do more, then will they advertise this as the last Bond movie with Daniel Craig?

    Also, it's interesting that according to the leaks, MGM wants to team up with another studio instead of Sony starting with Bond 25... (Even though Barbara Broccoli and Sony co-chairman Amy Pascal would love to keep working together.)
  • Posts: 9,847
    Interesting so they are going to go for a
    On her majesties Secret Service route for bond 25 with Madeline being this generations Tracey and her dieing presumably at blofield's hands kind of preferred my idea of bond having to be pulled back into action due to event outside of his control and the Hildebrand rarity as the basis but oh well
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    Some of you said a few posts back that we are not going to get that much action and scenes in Austria. Since i didnt read the leaked scripts (not fair!! - anybody care to send PM .. uups) i just ask will we have a snow ski chase secne?
  • Risico007 wrote: »
    Interesting so they are going to go for a
    On her majesties Secret Service route for bond 25 with Madeline being this generations Tracey and her dieing presumably at blofield's hands kind of preferred my idea of bond having to be pulled back into action due to event outside of his control and the Hildebrand rarity as the basis but oh well

    I don't think so. Vesper was this generations Tracy. Madeline is a happy ending for Bond. He spared Blofeld because he's moving away from his old life of killing in order to be with Madeline (because she basically gave him an ultimatum, him or the job, and he seemingly chose her), not because they want Blofeld alive for Bond 25.

    At least that's what I think anyway.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    I'm bloody disappointed in a few things, which I said I don't want to see after SF in another thread, namely:
    -That damn DB5, yet again
    -MI6 HQ getting blown up, yet again, this time for good it seems
    -Bond straigthening his darn tie or suit cuffs

    Everything else seems quite smashing. Looking forward to it immensely. Has a lavish feel to it.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,164
    Also, it's interesting that according to the leaks, MGM wants to team up with another studio instead of Sony starting with Bond 25... (Even though Barbara Broccoli and Sony co-chairman Amy Pascal would love to keep working together.)

    Precisely, and with the leak taking place this is more likely to happen. another reason for this to be the last Craig Bond film.
    Some of you said a few posts back that we are not going to get that much action and scenes in Austria. Since i didnt read the leaked scripts (not fair!! - anybody care to send PM .. uups) i just ask will we have a snow ski chase secne?
    no, there WILL be a big action set piece in Austria and in fact Austria is a surprisingly big chunk of the film.

    Not skiing though it seems.
  • Posts: 4,619
    I don't think so. Vesper was this generations Tracy. Madeline is a happy ending for Bond. He spared Blofeld because he's moving away from his old life of killing in order to be with Madeline (because she basically gave him an ultimatum, him or the job, and he seemingly chose her), not because they want Blofeld alive for Bond 25.

    At least that's what I think anyway.

    And even if they did decide to make a 5th film with Craig, and even if they did decide to bring Blofeld back, and even if they did decide to bring Madeline back, wouldn't it be too much if a woman Bond fell in love with died yet again?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    And even if they did decide to make a 5th film with Craig, and even if they did decide to bring Blofeld back, and even if they did decide to bring Madeline back, wouldn't it be too much if a woman Bond fell in love with died yet again?

    That's par for the course for a secret agent, as long as he stays in the business.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Also how much do you want to bet
    disfigured Oberhauser in the finale will have the signature Blofeld scars?
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    antovolk wrote: »
    Also, it's interesting that according to the leaks, MGM wants to team up with another studio instead of Sony starting with Bond 25... (Even though Barbara Broccoli and Sony co-chairman Amy Pascal would love to keep working together.)

    Precisely, and with the leak taking place this is more likely to happen. another reason for this to be the last Craig Bond film.
    Some of you said a few posts back that we are not going to get that much action and scenes in Austria. Since i didnt read the leaked scripts (not fair!! - anybody care to send PM .. uups) i just ask will we have a snow ski chase secne?
    no, there WILL be a big action set piece in Austria and in fact Austria is a surprisingly big chunk of the film.

    Not skiing though it seems.

    Thanks! I will sleep better now.

  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,622
    I don't think so. Vesper was this generations Tracy. Madeline is a happy ending for Bond. He spared Blofeld because he's moving away from his old life of killing in order to be with Madeline (because she basically gave him an ultimatum, him or the job, and he seemingly chose her), not because they want Blofeld alive for Bond 25.

    At least that's what I think anyway.

    I think you are right. We are all clearly kicking around the new info/outline that was leaked last night. Bond spares Blofeld at the end because he's not in the business of putting villains down like dogs, once they are helpless and in custody. He puts them down in the field, while they are at least active and potentially still threatening.
    So, I think this finish does work. Its sets up Blofeld for return. Bond only spares him because he has no choice.
    Madeleine finally gives Craig a girl he can properly finish a film with.
    Tossing the gun in the river, really doesn't mean much going forward.
    What is with Mendes and the DB5? The man is obsessed. :) Its like a running joke.

    Many of our fears regarding the original drafts have been alleviated I think with last nights updated info. The worst stuff has been cleaned out.

    I still don't care for the broader story. It's SF all over again to some extent. Bond's childhood and past again dredged up.
    Put me firmly in the let's get back to Bond-on-mission films.
    I honestly don't care about his past. What hooked me as teenager, was 007 on mission and in his prime, doing the job, with danger and style. But if others dig the character journey stuff, enjoy!
    In meantime, I make the most of what's being served up.


    @bondjames Yes, as you suggest, the character journey as you describe, did have its origins with LTK and continued through the Broz films.
    Bond's character journey was not the prevailing theme of those films. It was sprinkled in.
    Movies 16-20 were unmistakable as Bond films. We had the music, gun barrell, all the tropes, Bond-on-mission etc, which is why @panchito that I choose to classify the Craig films with NSNA as alternative Bond takes. Just my arbitrary call. No more than that.

    Eg NSNA is an alternative Bond take, as Connery insisted that he play Bond at his own age, ie a 52 year old semi-retired Bond, and that's what we got.
    NSNA wasn't the usual Bond of indeterminate prime-00 age. It was purposely presented, as Bond as older agent.
    The Craig films also veer from Bond in prime, and on mission. They focus heavily on character journey, origins, old-dog etc.
    I make this distinction, and thus separate the Craig-era and NSNA from the original run of 20 films, which all focused on Bond-on-mission, in his 00 prime.
    Age, and time in the game, or even motivation, wasn't really an issue, in the original continuity, even the later Broz films.
    And even if Rog looked too old, he wasn't supposed to be playing old dog. He wasn't playing his age.

    I do wish SP could have dropped the whole Oberhauser origins stuff and connection with Bond's childhood. Would have been enough just to reveal Spectre as mastermind behind Quantum. I don't think the Oberhauser angle really adds anything terribly interesting, just as I don't find Bond's Skyfall origins very grabbing either.

    On the bright side, even though we are getting more charcter journey, this does appear to be the first Craig film, where he is in fact as @waverly might put, in full possession of his Bond mojo, from start to finish.
    This could be Craig's breakout film, where he shines as 007. Oberhauser is the one with issues, but it does seem that even that angle has been toned down.
    But Craig, might be in Connery mode here. We might get some old style Bond swagger.
    I might even remove this film from the alternative collection, depending on how DC carries it.
    At very least, I think it has potential to be the best of the re-boot films.

    What "we've finished up" with does seem to hold promise for a very good film.
    Wonder if the music will be cranked up too.
    There do seem to be a lot classic Bond scenarios sprinkled through the new outline.
    I do like whats been done with the all the main characters, Lucia Sciarra, Swan, Hinks, Andrew Scott's character.
    M, MP and Q seem well written. Same with Tanner.
    What's fun about the latest info, is we can now make sense of a lot of the other info and photos that are surfacing. ie we know what the plane is all about.
    And we know what Bond and Tanner are doing in the Thames boat ride photos that surfaced today.
    The story revelations allow us to watch the story come to life as more set photos and videos etc manifest.

    The actual film when it comes out, will be that much more interesting, IMO, to see how the story ultimately presents and hangs together in the end.

  • Some speculation about this being Craig's last film; but is he not under contract for Bond 25?
  • Posts: 3,164
    Some speculation about this being Craig's last film; but is he not under contract for Bond 25?

    Yeah but he could've renegotiated that. The main piece of evidence pointing to that is EON/MGM dumping Sony after this film and SP acting as the de facto finale to all of Craig's films.

  • Just read the leaked shooting outline. Just reading it gives me strange feelings. Skyfall has somehow 'changed' (in the loosest way possible) the feeling of the Bond movies. There seems to be far more at stake in this one than in any previous Bond films I can remember. The notes page we saw is nothing compared to this newly leaked outline. I doubt many will be calling craps on this film straight away once they read the outline.

    The ending isn't a shock at all. But there is something amazingly awesome about it and incredibly poignant. One little bit of a scene is described in the outline with the use of a specific type of pet, and I can already visualise the scene and the impact of it from the audience already.

    Beautiful work EON.
  • The question is: if this turns out to be his last and they already know that he won't do more, then will they advertise this as the last Bond movie with Daniel Craig?

    Also, it's interesting that according to the leaks, MGM wants to team up with another studio instead of Sony starting with Bond 25... (Even though Barbara Broccoli and Sony co-chairman Amy Pascal would love to keep working together.)

    I have specifically wondered whether the Sony hacks would lead to the end of the MGM-Sony partnership, re: Bond. Too early to tell, but it's a natural question -- especially if Amy Pascal would depart.
  • Meanwhile the relationship between rebooted Bond and rebooted Blofeld does seem somewhat similar to the rebooted McGarrett and rebooted Wo Fat in the rebooted Hawaii Five-0 series.


    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2014/11/12/wo-fat-classic-vs-reboot-spoiler/

    That would be appropriate given that Five-0 2.0 did an homage to Die Another Day:

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/mcgarrett-2-0-clearly-has-never-watched-die-another-day/

    AND

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/hawaii-five-0s-fixation-with-die-another-day/

    AND

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/compare-die-another-day-vs-hawaii-five-0/

    While another episode had an homage to You Only Live Twice *and* Licence to Kill.

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/new-hawaii-five-0-borrows-from-007-again/



  • Posts: 9,847
    Read the new notes and.....





    WOW this is going to be good

    I even like how Quantum is handled and I am not even drunk.
  • Posts: 4,622
    Anyone?Are we to believe that Mr White has somehow fallen out of favour with Spectre Leader. I am not clear on why we find him holed up in a safe room.
  • Posts: 3,164
    timmer wrote: »
    Anyone?Are we to believe that Mr White has somehow fallen out of favour with Spectre Leader. I am not clear on why we find him holed up in a safe room.

    I guess so
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I get the feeling that once SPECTRE is released, QOS is going to get a favourable significant reappraisal.
  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    Just read the leaked shooting outline. Just reading it gives me strange feelings. Skyfall has somehow 'changed' (in the loosest way possible) the feeling of the Bond movies. There seems to be far more at stake in this one than in any previous Bond films I can remember. The notes page we saw is nothing compared to this newly leaked outline. I doubt many will be calling craps on this film straight away once they read the outline.

    The ending isn't a shock at all. But there is something amazingly awesome about it and incredibly poignant. One little bit of a scene is described in the outline with the use of a specific type of pet, and I can already visualise the scene and the impact of it from the audience already.

    Beautiful work EON.

    Could you share (using spoilers tag), a bit more info on this "pet" scene, please!!

  • Mi6LisbonBranchMi6LisbonBranch Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts: 243
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Read the new notes and.....

    WOW this is going to be good

    I even like how Quantum is handled and I am not even drunk.

    Since i cant ask you to post the links could you please tell me a little bit more of the scenes from wich we saw the photos yesterday (River Thames and Notting Hill apartment) and how the action will build up in the México sequence? thanks
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 3,164
    Scenes shot yesterday:
    Bond and Tanner are on the river Thames on the way to the relocated Q-Branch. Old MI6 is listed for demolition and right opposite on the north side of the bridge (where Bond and Tanner were facing instead of MI6 in the photos) is the new Centre for National Security

    Apartment - FYI bits inside were already filmed in Pinewood I think - Moneypenny visits Bond to return to him personal effects from Skyfall. Also SPOILER ALERT cameo in that scene
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 11,119
    This is a general message.

    And the spoiler thread continues to be insanely popular. Many forummembers literally are "spoiled brats". I don't get it what "fun" you get out of reading all those leaks. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind being spoiled at times, but this leaked draft screenplay surely must throw away quite a bit of excitement you previously had.

    I'm quite disappointed that we tend to forget the ethics behind all this. Yes, sure, Sony is a billion dollar company. But that never justifies the hacks those North-Korean basterds did. Moreover, what if the leaks were even worse for "SPECTRE", like it is the case now with "The Interview". The latter movie surely is the biggest victim of the SonyLeaks. "Guardians Of Peace" got what they want: Substantial censorships applied to that film. Ask yourself how you would have reacted if that was the case with "SPECTRE".

    I'm still disappointed in many of us, and why we don't ask ourselves these ethical questions first, before we start behaving like "spoiled brats", before we start slamming down Sony, MGM & EON.
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