SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • leas_moleleas_mole love is the promise of suffering
    Posts: 574
    chipsticks wrote: »
    I'll riot if it turns out like another Léa/Cassel =))
    Don't worry, this movie is being directed by the guy who made American Beauty and Revolutionary Road. The Bond/Swann relationship will work beautifully.
    I trust that Sam Mendes will get the balance of drama, romance and action right.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Do you think the James Bond will return will have a ? at the end?

    no, James Bond will always return..

    i love the guarded yet sometimes overreaction people have/or had to Bond throwing away his gun at the end of the script and driving off with Swann.. almost all of the original Bond films (DN-DAD) end pretty much the same way, all you have to do is insert Bond throwing away a gun and the endings are almost similar to ones that have come before... i just think, have we gotten used to Craig's Bond not getting the traditional happy ending, that when he finally gets one (whether it sets up Bond 25 or not) we all start panicking?..

  • edited June 2015 Posts: 1,552
    Who said anything about panicking? I meant it as a little joke from the producers, I am 100% confident that Bond will be back, in 2017 or 2018, but I can still see them adding a question mark to tease the audience with the ending and also think of the entertainment websites after, how they would work it.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 389
    HASEROT wrote: »
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Do you think the James Bond will return will have a ? at the end?

    no, James Bond will always return..

    i love the guarded yet sometimes overreaction people have/or had to Bond throwing away his gun at the end of the script and driving off with Swann.. almost all of the original Bond films (DN-DAD) end pretty much the same way, all you have to do is insert Bond throwing away a gun and the endings are almost similar to ones that have come before... i just think, have we gotten used to Craig's Bond not getting the traditional happy ending, that when he finally gets one (whether it sets up Bond 25 or not) we all start panicking?..

    It´s an interesting theory, haserot. For example, at the end of LTK, Bond is out of the Secret Service and he seems to choose a girlfirend (Pam). In many other movies, a serious relationship between Bond and the girl is in some way hinted: TLDL, FRWL, GE, LALD ... However, the throwing away gun scene, the last dialoge with Q and the "we have all the time of the world" imply that Bond is planning to be out a long time.
    I like the last page of the script and I hope no changes, but they need to "sell" the romantic relationship very well, because Bond is clearly going to give it an oportunity.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 3,276
    That is true, but in my opinion, regardless of how good of actors they are, they're going to have to add to what was in the script to really sell that Bond would quit for her. They may have great chemistry but nothing in their interactions on the page really makes it seem plausible that Bond would make such a drastic career decision because of her.
    Exactly!
    Remember that they already said their goodbyes when arriving in London after Morocco (scene 151c).

    "She kisses him a last goodbye. He turns and walks away"

    The only reason that Swann and Bond can drive into the sunset in the last frames, is because Oberhauser then snatches her at the airport in France, causing the final resque-mission at the old MI6-building.

    But would you really give your career up for someone you are willing to let go a couple of hours ealier? I find that hard to believe.

    I also find it hard to believe that Swann leaves Bond in London, takes the plane to Paris, gets kidnapped and returns to London during the same time it takes Bond to confront 'C' in the CNS building across the Thames. That's pushing it.
  • Posts: 669
    HASEROT wrote: »
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Do you think the James Bond will return will have a ? at the end?

    no, James Bond will always return..

    i love the guarded yet sometimes overreaction people have/or had to Bond throwing away his gun at the end of the script and driving off with Swann.. almost all of the original Bond films (DN-DAD) end pretty much the same way, all you have to do is insert Bond throwing away a gun and the endings are almost similar to ones that have come before... i just think, have we gotten used to Craig's Bond not getting the traditional happy ending, that when he finally gets one (whether it sets up Bond 25 or not) we all start panicking?..

    I must respectfully disagree here. Other than OHMSS, I never once got the impression that Bond was leaving the Secret Service at the end of any of the other movies. He may go off with a woman at the end for an in-between-missions fling, but it’s never anything so drastic or dramatic as quitting. The “throwing the gun in the water so I can be with a woman I’ve known for less than a week” is pure melodrama, and I’ll be shocked if they can pull it off.

    Besides, do we really need Bond leaving the Secret Service for a woman TWICE in one actor’s tenure?


  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Haven't read script but is the motivation Swann or just burned after all the crap he just went thru?

    Besides if MI6 is disbanded he doesn't have a job anyway.

    Idj I didn't read the script
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 108
    I believe the Craig Bond films will stand apart from the rest of the films as a self contained story of Bond. A sort of contemporary and condensed reimagining of Fleming's story of Bond from CR to YOLT (or TMWTGG). I expect to see Swann killed at the hands of Spectre sometime during Bond 25. I'd then love to see Bond return to MI6 but in a demoted position and sent on a mission to Japan where he happens upon Blofeld...
  • Posts: 3,164
    I believe the Craig Bond films will stand apart from the rest of the films as a self contained story of Bond. A sort of contemporary and condensed reimagining of Fleming's story of Bond from CR to YOLT (or TMWTGG). I expect to see Swann killed at the hands of Spectre sometime during Bond 25. I'd then love to see Bond return to MI6 but in a demoted position and sent on a mission to Japan where he happens upon Blofeld...
    Agreed absolutely. Or more like a Bond version of what Nolan did with Batman, up to you...(just that that was the precedent for what's happening here)
    Yeah if B25 is still the last Craig film, a scenario like that (Swann offed in the PTS, leading to Japan mission and final.one-on-one vs Blofeld) would be a great place to end this series - allowing a new actor to step in with a new continuity.
  • Posts: 832
    Craig should finish after killing blofeld and being reinstated as 007 in b25, and there should be a cool skyfall esque ending (if it's not too redundant). The next actor should just continue from there.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 108
    antovolk wrote: »
    I believe the Craig Bond films will stand apart from the rest of the films as a self contained story of Bond. A sort of contemporary and condensed reimagining of Fleming's story of Bond from CR to YOLT (or TMWTGG). I expect to see Swann killed at the hands of Spectre sometime during Bond 25. I'd then love to see Bond return to MI6 but in a demoted position and sent on a mission to Japan where he happens upon Blofeld...
    Agreed absolutely. Or more like a Bond version of what Nolan did with Batman, up to you...(just that that was the precedent for what's happening here)
    Yeah if B25 is still the last Craig film, a scenario like that (Swann offed in the PTS, leading to Japan mission and final.one-on-one vs Blofeld) would be a great place to end this series - allowing a new actor to step in with a new continuity.

    Yes, that's very much the way I see this developing. Craig's Bond killing Blofeld then left not really knowing who he is and the world thinking him dead would be an apt and powerful ending for him.

    The big signal that this is where we are heading for me is the "We have all the time in the world" last line of Spectre.

    And I agree that it's the Nolan/Batman films that set the precedent.
  • Posts: 669
    Forgive me if this has already been covered, but we don't have any idea why they're filming at Trafalgar Square and Admiralty Arch, do we? If my memory serves correctly, those locations aren't in the script, right? So apparently we're getting an extended third act? (It really feels more like a fourth act to me, but that's neither here nor there.)
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 389
    It is almost sure that the third act and some previous scenes have been changed, again. In addition, Mendes is very good developing personal relationships and Craig and Seydoux are good performers; so we must trust, wait and see the movie.
    Anyway, in the script the end of the film is much more open than in previous flicks and I think it is something positive, because it lets us discuss in Mi6 forums, hehehe.
  • Forgive me if this has already been covered, but we don't have any idea why they're filming at Trafalgar Square and Admiralty Arch, do we? If my memory serves correctly, those locations aren't in the script, right? So apparently we're getting an extended third act? (It really feels more like a fourth act to me, but that's neither here nor there.)

    Given the characters present, I'd say this is a reset and rewritten version what takes place at the army barracks and on the "Foxhunter" truck from the December script.
  • Posts: 669
    Given the characters present, I'd say this is a reset and rewritten version what takes place at the army barracks and on the "Foxhunter" truck from the December script.[/quote]

    That makes sense. Thanks, Comte!
  • Posts: 4,622
    Just for the record Bond has either formally or informally resigned, or gone rogue in all 4 of the Craig films.
    Compare with the first 20 films, where this happened 3x. OHMSS, LTK and DAD.

    In CR, Bond formally resigns much like he did in OHMSS. He comes back both times before film is over.
    In QoS Bond goes full rogue, operates in defiance of orders, breaks Mi6 custody as he did in both LTK and DAD. He's welcomed back later due to the good graces of M, which is essentially what goes down in both LTK and DAD to bring him back in.
    In SF Bond informally quits after M's "take the bloody shot" order. He goes AWOL, leaving the impression that he is dead. Duty brings him back though.
    In SP, the Dec 1st script strongly suggests that Bond quits Mi6 at the end of the film.
    We can be sure though that he will come back into the fold in next film.

    Again, this is just for the record.
    There is nothing unprecendented with the Bond rogue thing or even formal resignation activity that we see in the Craig era. Formal in that, I assume Bond was intending another short email at least, to advise of his quitting at end of SP.

    But we do seem to have a preponderance of this rogue-resignation behaviour in the Craig era. 4 for 4 versus 3 for 20.
    Not saying its necessarily bad, although personally I don't like it, but its there.
    It is what it is.

    What goes down at the end of SP though isn't that terrible IMO. Bond's quitting is not really that dramatic. There are several ways to look at it.
    One way for example, as someone else mentioned, is thatMi6 doesn't actually exist in its old form at movie's end. It needs to be re-established.
    Considering all he's been through, you can see why he might seize the opportunity to walk away, spend time with the girl, pending the higher-ups getting the intelligence apparatus back in order. "Call me when you've got the tent back up" type thing and "I'll see if I'm interested"


    What I would like to see happen beyond SP though,is that Bond returns to battle Blofeld and that we get a modern telling of the Shatterhand, Castle of Death story, with Bunt in play as well.
    I think I will get my wish. SP does seem to be setting up for this. Most telling is the "We have all the time in the world" line. That line dooms Swann.
    Mendes or whoever, can then go nuts indulging all the melodrama potential, to be mined from Flemings YOLT, and this is legit territory, as Bond was very much in a bad way when we come across him in the YOLT book.
    Mendes and Craig might be the perfect pair to really deliver this story with full dramatic impact.
    However, because I like Spectre and Blofeld as recurring villainy, my preference would be that Bond get his YOLT-style revenge, seemingly destroy Blofeld, maybe even also play out the whole transition to the TMWTGG story, in a follow-up film.

    However, at end of B25, while no-memory Bond is recovering with Kissy , we the audience would be teased that Blofeld's death might be not quite fait accompli
    However Ernst will be gone from the Craig era. If Craig continues for another film (TMWTGG take), no more Blofeld but SP might continue. That would make 6 Craig films and complete a nice arc from CR, QoS and SF to the concluding OHMSS YOLT TMWTGG takes.

    But when Craig retires, we get blank slate again, and we relaunch with a new young Bond.
    Blofeld can rise from the ashes and reclaim SP for a glorious new era of Bond-versus- Blofeld-and-SP filmmaking. The Craig era will simply be a vague past history that Bond might obliquely reference from time to time, much as previous Bonds vaguely referenced the adventures of their predecessors eg both Rog and Dalts having history with Laz-Bond and Tracy, even if timeline was way out of whack in Dalts case.

    We are talking movie fantasy land. New Bond can move forward battling Blofeld and Spectre when needed, kind of the way Cubby had intended post TMWTGG, if McClory hadn't got in the way, and taken Ernst and SP out of play, which of course led to the infamous FYEO pts, Ernst smokestack-dump, and poor cat scurrying off to fend for itself yet again.

  • Posts: 725
    Absolutely @timmer. I like your scenario. And the perfect title for Bond 25 would of course be Shatterhand. I too am tired of the melodrama because it seems so manufactured to make Mendes and Craig feel they are going deep. But you're right, if they follow your YOLT scenario, at least the drama would have it's basis in Fleming and if SP is a big hit, there will be great expectations for Bond 25. EON keeps claiming that SP is not the first film of a 2 parter, but I don't believe it. EON will say anything to keep audiences off the scent, which is logical. I bet Lea and Waltz are already contracted for Bond 25.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    @smitty, I bet they are contracted too as this article back from Feb. pretty much hints at it...

    http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/james-bond-24/243712/james-bond-spectre-reported-to-set-up-two-part-story
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Who said anything about panicking? I meant it as a little joke from the producers, I am 100% confident that Bond will be back, in 2017 or 2018, but I can still see them adding a question mark to tease the audience with the ending and also think of the entertainment websites after, how they would work it.

    panicking was probably wrong verbage on my part - more like a slight "overreaction" or "reading too much between the lines." ... and i wasn't singling you out specifically @JCRendle or anyone else - just making a broad generalized statement...

    It's been a while since i read the script, and I never fully bought into the romance angle between Bond and Swann. Not to say it isn't there, but I just don't see it as naturally as the romance/relationship between Bond and Vesper in CR (and even than was kind of forced towards the end.. or sped up, depending on how you choose to look at it.)... but... however Spectre ends, we know 2 things.. 1.) James Bond Will Return.. and 2.) Craig will be back for Bond 25...

    i dont know...... i dont even know what the hell point was i was trying to argue or make.... god, i've been away far too long. lol.

    i needs a drink. lol.
  • Posts: 152
    I was listening to my OHMSS soundtrack and I wondered if the end credits would feature a new version of We Have All The Time In The World. Maybe sung by someone else. Probably won't happen but its just a thought.
  • In my opinion, the end of the movie should be a shot of MS smiling in the DB5, then all black and a gun shot noise drawing the spectre teaser poster with the Bond theme being played. After some seconds, "James Bond will be back in Blofeld" and credits start running.
  • Posts: 5,745
    "James Bond will be back in Blofeld" and credits start running.

    Precisely why they should never title any movie a character name. In Blofeld. Doesn't work.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Shatterhand is a better title
  • Ok, I admit Shatterhand, but if Dr. No and Goldfinger have their movie title, Bolofeld should have it, too.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 4,622
    But DN and GF were taken from Fleming book titles. Blofeld has no book title- three Fleming books but none with his name as title.

    Shatterhand would be a great B25 title though. It would tip as to what the film would be about and get everyone excited.
  • Posts: 725
    timmer wrote: »
    But DN and GF were taken from Fleming book titles. Blofeld has no book title- three Fleming books but none with his name as title.

    Shatterhand would be a great B25 title though. It would tip as to what the film would be about and get everyone excited.


    Absolutely!!!!! Shatterhand is the perfect title for B25, and would be such a shrewd marketing move because as @timmer notes, tons of the audience for SP would want to know what happens in B25. This is why studios salivate over sequels, they have an all but guaranteed audience. It just seems that given all the leaks, SP is definitely part 1 of a 2 part story, and a clear indication that Craig, Lea and Waltz will definitely be back to finish the story, particularly Swann's story. The scrip almost writes itself. EON has just been bs'ing about it not being a 2 part story. Logan scripted it that way. They really do appear to be setting B24 up as the first of a 2 parter.

  • Shatterhand is a very good title, but it means nothing conected with 007 for 99.99 % of the audience. Some people would say "like the Scorsese/DiCaprio movie?" or "about Nintendos´game?" or even "as TND was going to be?"
  • EndCredit007EndCredit007 EGYPT
    Posts: 114
    Blofeld IMO would be a great title ..
    Shatterhand would be good so the Mendes trilogy titles would all starts with letter S .
  • TreefingersTreefingers Isthmus City, Republic of Isthmus
    edited June 2015 Posts: 191
    So a walk down Tracy alley again... Can't say i'm too excited about that. I've grown weary of all the melodrama of Bond going rogue/quitting/going on personal vendettas......ugh!!

    How many times do we have to go through this? They say they want to explore the character in different ways and they are going with the same crap time and time again. There's only so much you can do with the Bond character anyway.

    Although I have to admit Shatterhand would be a hell of a title and a propper "adaptation" of YOLT would be awesome but all this reeks of OHMSS (...and Bourne 2).
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