SPECTRE--last Craig-era film?

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  • Posts: 15,125
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The reason it went that way is so they could give Judi a proper send off.

    They shouldn't have bothered.

    I am actually glad they gave her a proper send off. Much better than Bernard Lee's, although I always thought Messervy never left and Robert Brown was one and the same.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Bernard lee died though. Some have suggested that brown was the promoted admiral from TSWLM. But yes I always assumed he was still admiral Miles M.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Shardlake wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Back on topic Craig will be back for at least bond 25 but my guess he will be back for 2 more

    That would be great...even better if Sam comes back for two more, too.

    So if SP does disappoint like SF you would like Mendes back?? I have not been convinced by SF enough to warrant Mendes three shots when the 2nd better be an improvement on the first. While I am no great fan of QoB that movie at least had a coherent story and some impressive shots as well, yeah I rate that one higher than SF.

    @SaintMark the thing is like me he doesn't think SF was a failure and most likely enjoy the hell out of SP so your question is pretty moot.

    It's a shame that this 50 + year series isn't to your liking at the moment, give it another a decade and they might have reheated the Moore era again like PB's films and you'll be happy again and you can stick your rose tinted specs back on and enjoy the cliched tick the box production line guff you obviously are craving EON return to.

    where did I say SF is failure?? Anybody who dislikes the Craig era must be automatically be a Brosnan/Moore fan??
    The 50+ year series is currently not to my liking as I find the last two installments a disappointment as one has an unfinished and Bourne wannabee flavor about it by a poorly suited director for the franchise and the next director came with a story that is about the characters and not so much about the story driving them because frankly that one has more holes in it than Moore's Moonrakers can fly through. ;)
    For me the Craig era is a letdown because after CR I was so in awe with him, and his 007 is different and decent enough but his movies are letting him down for me.

    And when somebody talks BO is grade of quality by the paying audience than sadly Titanic and Avatar a twice the quality of of SF and the audiences have spoken with their wallet too. But actually BO is often the result of a good PR or great marketing strategy which SF actually had, that moment at the Olympics was shere brilliance and funnier than SF had to offer at any moment. [ there is a decent director at work ;) ]

    For me on the basis of SF Mendes does not warrant a third movie, SP could change that but I have yet to see the movie to give judgement on that matter. As for the teaser trailer it left me underwhelmed, which is how I prefer trailers when they do not give away too much.

    I want Craig to have a movie as good as CR minus any sinking buildings and he has yet to get that.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Please stop the smileys, do you know how smug it looks? It's like everyone as returned to kindergarten.

    If I could wipe one element of the internet out it would be that, it's used to excess and you all just look like children.
  • Posts: 11,425
    TripAces wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Back on topic Craig will be back for at least bond 25 but my guess he will be back for 2 more

    That would be great...even better if Sam comes back for two more, too.

    So if SP does disappoint like SF you would like Mendes back?? I have not been convinced by SF enough to warrant Mendes three shots when the 2nd better be an improvement on the first. While I am no great fan of QoB that movie at least had a coherent story and some impressive shots as well, yeah I rate that one higher than SF.

    How was SF a disappointment? I ask you take a look at the film's BO numbers...they tell a completely different story. EON brought Mendes back precisely because of SF's success financially. You can argue the film's artistic merits all you want (and I'll address those points in a moment) but what is not under dispute is the BO. And my guess is that SP will be just as big a hit. Thus...it's possible EON will reach out to Sam again.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on all films as long as they can substantiate the reasons for those opinions. I'll offer a reason why SF is a much better film than you think, and it has more to do with the underlying themes than it does the plot. I think it's actually the most complex Bond film ever made. I'll just point you in the direction of certain scenes/moments, and then I'll let you figure out the importance:

    1. PTS starts with a stolen hard drive.
    2. PTS takes place on a train. Remember the U2 line about trains in "Zoo Station," which perfectly sums up its symbolic relevance in Western literature: "Time is a train, makes the future the past..."
    3. M is asked to retire
    4. Bond: "We're both played out."
    5. MI6 goes from hi-tech headquarters to underground offices from the Churchill days
    6. "It's a young man's game."
    7. "Grand old worship..." heading to scrap.
    8. Shanghai: the hi-tech buldings (contrasted to what was going on in #5)
    9. "I like to do some things the old fashioned way" ... "Now you look the part...old dog, new tricks."
    10. "Circle of life."
    11. Deserted island
    12. The rat tale..."You're living in the rune, as well."
    13. Shooting antique pistols and emphasis on the age of the Macallen.
    14. Subterranean London
    15. The world is more opaque...quoting Tennyson.
    16. Switching to the DB5
    17. "Breadcrumbs."
    18. Skyfall (contrast with #8)
    19. The DB5 gets blown to hell
    20. old-fashioned warfare


    Those are just off the top of my head. Anyone can enjoy SF. But the film is of particular interest to those of us who grew up and entered adulthood before there were PCs, laptops, internet, iPads, digital anything. We listened to our music on tapes and records and watched TV though antennae and then basic cable. There was no cyber terrorism.

    This why the conversation between Bond and Q in #7 is so crucial to the films meaning.

    The plot of SF is rather simple. But that's only because the rest of it isn't so simple.

    I love this argument . The idea that just because SF has themes and is 'complex', then ergo it must be brilliant. The history of cinema is littered with the wrecks of high -concept, complex, richly thematic movies that stunk. I'm not saying that themes and complexity are bad, but just that , as with the inclusion of action or sex, they don't in themselves make a good film.

    Skyfall may well be one of the most complex Bond movies ever made, but that in itself doesn't make it good.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited April 2015 Posts: 4,585
    Getafix wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Back on topic Craig will be back for at least bond 25 but my guess he will be back for 2 more

    That would be great...even better if Sam comes back for two more, too.

    So if SP does disappoint like SF you would like Mendes back?? I have not been convinced by SF enough to warrant Mendes three shots when the 2nd better be an improvement on the first. While I am no great fan of QoB that movie at least had a coherent story and some impressive shots as well, yeah I rate that one higher than SF.

    How was SF a disappointment? I ask you take a look at the film's BO numbers...they tell a completely different story. EON brought Mendes back precisely because of SF's success financially. You can argue the film's artistic merits all you want (and I'll address those points in a moment) but what is not under dispute is the BO. And my guess is that SP will be just as big a hit. Thus...it's possible EON will reach out to Sam again.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on all films as long as they can substantiate the reasons for those opinions. I'll offer a reason why SF is a much better film than you think, and it has more to do with the underlying themes than it does the plot. I think it's actually the most complex Bond film ever made. I'll just point you in the direction of certain scenes/moments, and then I'll let you figure out the importance:

    1. PTS starts with a stolen hard drive.
    2. PTS takes place on a train. Remember the U2 line about trains in "Zoo Station," which perfectly sums up its symbolic relevance in Western literature: "Time is a train, makes the future the past..."
    3. M is asked to retire
    4. Bond: "We're both played out."
    5. MI6 goes from hi-tech headquarters to underground offices from the Churchill days
    6. "It's a young man's game."
    7. "Grand old worship..." heading to scrap.
    8. Shanghai: the hi-tech buldings (contrasted to what was going on in #5)
    9. "I like to do some things the old fashioned way" ... "Now you look the part...old dog, new tricks."
    10. "Circle of life."
    11. Deserted island
    12. The rat tale..."You're living in the rune, as well."
    13. Shooting antique pistols and emphasis on the age of the Macallen.
    14. Subterranean London
    15. The world is more opaque...quoting Tennyson.
    16. Switching to the DB5
    17. "Breadcrumbs."
    18. Skyfall (contrast with #8)
    19. The DB5 gets blown to hell
    20. old-fashioned warfare


    Those are just off the top of my head. Anyone can enjoy SF. But the film is of particular interest to those of us who grew up and entered adulthood before there were PCs, laptops, internet, iPads, digital anything. We listened to our music on tapes and records and watched TV though antennae and then basic cable. There was no cyber terrorism.

    This why the conversation between Bond and Q in #7 is so crucial to the films meaning.

    The plot of SF is rather simple. But that's only because the rest of it isn't so simple.

    I love this argument . The idea that just because SF has themes and is 'complex', then ergo it must be brilliant. The history of cinema is littered with the wrecks of high -concept, complex, richly thematic movies that stunk. I'm not saying that themes and complexity are bad, but just that , as with the inclusion of action or sex, they don't in themselves make a good film.

    Skyfall may well be one of the most complex Bond movies ever made, but that in itself doesn't make it good.

    Not "must be." But is for many. Furthermore, it isn't just a matter of theme. The cinematography, art direction, performances, and music are all first-rate. And while some may poo-poo the plot, fact is, this is Bond we're talking about. Very few if any of the films have realistic, strong plotlines. Most of the films are fluff, and we the fluff. But SF isn't fluff.
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 2,015
    SF's theme is that "sometimes old ways are the best".
    So, if you leave the theater and think "The old Bonds are the best", it means Mendes delivered :)
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 11,425
    SF's theme is that "sometimes old ways are the best".
    So, if you leave the theater and think "The old Bonds are the best", it means Mendes delivered :)

    Interesting spin on SF! In that case he did indeed succeed!
  • Posts: 9,847
    http://time.com/3904863/jason-statham-spy-james-bond/

    Daniel Craig has announced that he will retire as 007 after the next two Bond films.

    So if Time is believed Craig will be bond till bond 26 :D 6 films total which I think would be a perfect run
  • Posts: 1,552
    Risico007 wrote: »
    http://time.com/3904863/jason-statham-spy-james-bond/

    Daniel Craig has announced that he will retire as 007 after the next two Bond films.

    So if Time is believed Craig will be bond till bond 26 :D 6 films total which I think would be a perfect run

    When did he announce this officially?
  • Posts: 3,164
    To add more fuel to the flame re: this being the last Craig film:
    http://variety.com/2015/film/news/james-bond-distribution-rights-up-for-grabs-1201509566/
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Risico007 wrote: »
    http://time.com/3904863/jason-statham-spy-james-bond/

    Daniel Craig has announced that he will retire as 007 after the next two Bond films.

    So if Time is believed Craig will be bond till bond 26 :D 6 films total which I think would be a perfect run

    If they were to be believed, two more films would surely be SP and 25. Not that it matters, they've clearly just made it up.
  • Posts: 1,552
    antovolk wrote: »
    To add more fuel to the flame re: this being the last Craig film:
    http://variety.com/2015/film/news/james-bond-distribution-rights-up-for-grabs-1201509566/

    It may be the last Sony Bond film, but that report doesn't say anything about Craig continuing or not?
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 3,164
    JCRendle wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    To add more fuel to the flame re: this being the last Craig film:
    http://variety.com/2015/film/news/james-bond-distribution-rights-up-for-grabs-1201509566/

    It may be the last Sony Bond film, but that report doesn't say anything about Craig continuing or not?

    Craig era started with Sony, it would make sense that this series, especially as interconnected as it is, ends with Sony. Having Craig's story continue on to non-Sony Bonds could cause complications - closes example is Universal essentially holding Hulk rights in the Disney/Marvel films and the deal regrading that.

    If B25 and beyond are Sony then that's all fine. But if it they aren't, I can see Craig ending here with SPECTRE.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    antovolk wrote: »
    To add more fuel to the flame re: this being the last Craig film:
    http://variety.com/2015/film/news/james-bond-distribution-rights-up-for-grabs-1201509566/

    Posted about this in another topic a few weeks ago, MGM still 100% owns United Artists and after recoverying to a healthy position MGM are ready to become a studio again. This is good new for Bond and EON. We have seen the emails from Sony. Sony had far to much say in how the films were being made and were pushy when it came to what Sony product they could push to feature in the films. MGM I expect will be more standoffish and let EON get on with it. Gary Barber has done a fantastic job of turning MGM in to stable business again.
  • Posts: 3,164
    antovolk wrote: »
    To add more fuel to the flame re: this being the last Craig film:
    http://variety.com/2015/film/news/james-bond-distribution-rights-up-for-grabs-1201509566/

    Posted about this in another topic a few weeks ago, MGM still 100% owns United Artists and after recoverying to a healthy position MGM are ready to become a studio again. This is good new for Bond and EON. We have seen the emails from Sony. Sony had far to much say in how the films were being made and were pushy when it came to what Sony product they could push to feature in the films. MGM I expect will be more standoffish and let EON get on with it. Gary Barber has done a fantastic job of turning MGM in to stable business again.
    Yeah but it won't be MGM themselves distributing as the article says, it will be like the MGM/FOX and MGM/SONY relationship beforehand, just a different studio.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 1,552
    I think if another studio sees the financial sense of keeping Craig on as Bond, they'll push to keep Craig on. I think it's ultimately down to Craig, not whichever studio goes into the next film, whether he stays for the next film, and Barbara Broccoli has already said he's got an open contract if he wants to stay on.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 3,164
    JCRendle wrote: »
    I think if another studio sees the financial sense of keeping Craig on as Bond, they'll push to keep Craig on. I think it's ultimately down to Craig, not whichever studio goes into the next film, whether he stays for the next film.

    But you need to take into account the story implications of that and Craig staying on under another studio. It's undeniable that Sony have crafted a Bond equivalent of Nolan's Dark Knight series. Sure Craig may stay on but in terms of story if it's under another studio this will most likely be be just like M between the Brosnan and Craig films, her playing the same character but in a different timeline/universe, a "soft reboot" if you will, no connection to the CR/QoS/SF/SP series.
  • Posts: 1,552
    But it's down to the writers, not the studio. EON have a big say in the direction of the films, they would instruct whichever writer is hired (P&W, someone new etc) to stick within the universe created. Just because another studio is working with EON, it doesn't mean that it'll affect the story.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited June 2015 Posts: 2,138
    antovolk wrote: »
    JCRendle wrote: »
    I think if another studio sees the financial sense of keeping Craig on as Bond, they'll push to keep Craig on. I think it's ultimately down to Craig, not whichever studio goes into the next film, whether he stays for the next film.

    But you need to take into account the story implications of that and Craig staying on under another studio. It's undeniable that Sony have crafted a Bond equivalent of Nolan's Dark Knight series. Sure Craig may stay on but in terms of story if it's under another studio this will most likely be be just like M between the Brosnan and Craig films, her playing the same character but in a different timeline/universe, a "soft reboot" if you will, no connection to the CR/QoS/SF/SP series.

    Don't see the need to do that. The rights have not changed. End of the day this is no big deal Sony were only ever on for 10%. Lets not forget this is the Sony who tried to cut Dan out the deal on the use of the mobile phone in Spectre, the same Sony who's leaked emails showed us they were pushing for Idris Elba. I don't think there will be much love lost between Craig and Sony after the leaks. I think the move will be pretty seemless for the fan. MGM have a good relationship with Disney's buena vista pictures. There are options Bond offers a good return for its initial investment.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 3,164
    JCRendle wrote: »
    But it's down to the writers, not the studio. EON have a big say in the direction of the films, they would instruct whichever writer is hired (P&W, someone new etc) to stick within the universe created. Just because another studio is working with EON, it doesn't mean that it'll affect the story.

    Actually the studio will have an effect on the story - this will all depend on the deal they broker, if it's something like the Paramount/Disney deal for the MCU movies pre-Avengers and all the films Avengers onwards being Disney, then it would be fine. There are like I said complications with Marvel at the moment regarding the Hulk because when that movie came out it was distributed by Universal and not Paramount which ended up putting a roadblock on any Disney/Marvel solo Hulk film because of the deal they agreed on.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Can't see EON/MGM/UA going with anyone unless they are getting things pretty much their own way. The article posted is a contradiction of a prior comments from the heads of MGM that they very much wanted to be the studio again.. It will be a wait and see game but I don't think it will have a big effect on they way things are going in the films.
  • Posts: 9,847
    no studio's don't have an impact on story because everything in Casino Royale-Spectre is all owned by EON not Sony. Since EON will still be making the films It doesn't matter.
  • Posts: 3,164
    Risico007 wrote: »
    no studio's don't have an impact on story because everything in Casino Royale-Spectre is all owned by EON not Sony. Since EON will still be making the films It doesn't matter.

    Did it matter when it was Marvel Studios making the Incredible Hulk film with Universal distributing?

    Like I said all depends on the deal they broker. Among the issues would be actually when trying to package/release the Craig films in one set and so forth or when say the new studio would want to organise marathon showings of the previous Craig films before midnight screenings of B25. More complicated when you have to not just deal with whatever studio distributing B25 but also Sony because of the previous films too.

    If it's like Disney getting to distribute the Paramount-released Marvel Studios titles (Iron Man to Captain America) I.e. the new studio having distribution rights to the previous Craig Bonds as well.as the future ones, then it will all be fine.
  • Posts: 725
    antovolk wrote: »
    JCRendle wrote: »
    I think if another studio sees the financial sense of keeping Craig on as Bond, they'll push to keep Craig on. I think it's ultimately down to Craig, not whichever studio goes into the next film, whether he stays for the next film.

    But you need to take into account the story implications of that and Craig staying on under another studio. It's undeniable that Sony have crafted a Bond equivalent of Nolan's Dark Knight series. Sure Craig may stay on but in terms of story if it's under another studio this will most likely be be just like M between the Brosnan and Craig films, her playing the same character but in a different timeline/universe, a "soft reboot" if you will, no connection to the CR/QoS/SF/SP series.

    Don't see the need to do that. The rights have not changed. End of the day this is no big deal Sony were only ever on for 10%. Lets not forget this is the Sony who tried to cut Dan out the deal on the use of the mobile phone in Spectre, the same Sony who's leaked emails showed us they were pushing for Idris Elba. I don't think there will be much love lost between Craig and Sony after the leaks. I think the move will be pretty seemless for the fan. MGM have a good relationship with Disney's buena vista pictures. There are options Bond offers a good return for its initial investment.

    I was amazed at these leak items. Craig selected both the director and Bardem without EON's initial input, had a big hand in the script, and as an actor he has carried his Bond films. He is probably far more responsible for the success of the last 3 Bonds than Wilson. And given he apparently had the same mobile endorsement deal on SF, this Sony director in the leak was in effect proposing they cut his salary by $5m after he carried SF to over 1B. Then of course you have that idiot, Amy Pascal, firing off that PR bonanza for Elba. Craig must consider Sony honchos a bunch of disloyal, back stabbing scumbags, and I would bet that if EON wants him badly to continue with 25, Sony must know they have created an influential enemy.

    Also, a thought about EON and Bond 25. I think they will desperately want Craig to continue, IF SP is a hit for 2 very different reasons. His carrying Bond to big BO is one thing, but if Craig leaves after SP, EON could face a huge amount of political pressure in the US to hire Elba, and I have no doubt that they badly want to avoid that scenario for a number of reasons. Keeping Craig on through B25 will greatly help them avoid that choice given Elba's age when it comes time to recast for 26.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Sony or not Craig isn't going anywhere. If anything, him still being Bond helps sweeten whatever deal works out and I'm pretty sure EoN will champion him to stay effectively and aggressively. Craig will be back for Bond 25 and I say that confidently.
  • Posts: 1,970
    So with all these new story's breaking about studios and stuff. What are the chances Craig returns for Bond 25?
  • RC7RC7
    edited June 2015 Posts: 10,512
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    So with all these new story's breaking about studios and stuff. What are the chances Craig returns for Bond 25?

    A lot of conjecture. Surely our focus should be on SP at this point? My main concern is that being a great film, everything else is secondary, especially things that are years away.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    SP will make close to or surpass a billion dollars, Craig is a major contributing factor to that and they're going to recast him because of a porential new distributor? What a load of bollocks. Even during the mgm restructuring fiasco whatever was happening, behind the scenes Craig was involved in the prep for whenever tge situation sorted itself out. Anyone who thinks Craig isn't coming back with or without a new distributor is dreaming.
  • Posts: 4,619
    who's leaked emails showed us they were pushing for Idris Elba.

    They were not pushing for Idris Elba. What happened is that Amy Pascal wrote an e-mail stating that she thinks Elba should be the next Bond...
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