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We talked about this before @Gustav_Graves. There is likely a lot more going on than meets the incurious eye.
The US just normalized relations with Cuba, a communist state that is not disavowing communism, the bane of American foreign policy for so many years. What better way to ensure democrats are not castigated by republicans and the press as commy lovers or weak on communism than by focusing the media on and getting tough with another commy state. The timing is curious to say the least.
Russia/China are getting closer and doing more deals even as the US is trying to force nations to ostracize Russia over Ukraine. Just yesterday they announced a currency swap to support Russian Banks. The US can't be too happy about that. What better way to send a clear signal/message to China indirectly than through its child state.
As I said, it was surprising that Obama himself would weigh in on something like a hacking leak last week, in such detail no less. All of a sudden that became the story over the weekend.
TND.
False flag operation in effect. Duplicity & misdirection
Amongst the various tidbits of info, one can read some claim it looks a lot like Russian hackers (and well, the last leaked screenplay of SPECTRE comes from Russia it seems), or that a former Sony employee could be linked to the GOP according to some others. And, well, it seems if the attack is considered "cyber-terrorism", then Sony could be immune to some class actions about their lack of network security. There you have a motive for some, to stick to the North Korea version...
Just don't base your "facts" entirely on that article. Make a weighted conclusion based on several, perhaps even a lot, of articles. From right-wing to left-wing, from French to American and Chinese articles, from interviews with Sony employees to leaks from the North-Koreans themselves.
Only then you can make a weighted conclusion about this "mess". Because that's what it is. It's a complete fucked up mess, and in the long end Sony loses most of it. I already heard the leaks are used during contractual negotiations. It's utterly damaging for Sony. Let's see how this goes, but it's certainly not good for the Bond franchise.
I heard Moscow actually supported the Leaks and openly said that it was a good thing that "The Interview" didn't get into cinemas, because the content was "utterly humiliating".
I have seen "The Interview". I found it a rather lacklustre movie. Bit if countries get so easily offended about the contents of such a movie, then that's only a sign of a....dictatorship encouraging the abolishment of free speech and the introduction of more censorship.
THAT is what's at stake here. Nations who lack humour, who lack any real sense of freedom and democracy. That's what's at stake here.
I completely puke on dictators or "dictators-in-the-making" like Kim Yun-Un, Putin and Erdogan. Ask yourself what needs to be done about that. What needs to be done to continue moviemaking in a free uncensored spirit.
Ah ah :) Here you're the one talking about an article you didn't read, you know :) But keep on teaching lessons to our poor souls if you want to...
If it is true that with claims of "cyber-terrorism", Sony can escape all the class actions from its employees, then you'll have the real ethics at deal here : is the private data of the low paid people really worth nothing ? The "free speech is in danger" story (while Exodus IS being banned from some countries right now, for instance, if you want a real case of censorship) is a red herring to avoid all considerations about what is really at stake IMO : that most companies will not invest a dime to protect their employees' private data (while still insisting they need them). The gossip is full of the "problems" of a few millionnaires, but the actual damage is rather for the employees, and leak of medical data + ID theft will be a problem for them for the years to come.
Dear @Suivez_ce_parachute. I read it in full. But it is impossible to have a discussion with you about ethics. So I don't bother. Keep posting these "fragments" of realities.
Wow, you read French and you bought it ? Or did you read it thanks to some piracy ? :)
I read/speak a bit French yes. Real question is: Why do you post French stuff if most people on here don't speak it.
Wow, I rather posted about the fact that it made the headline here, and then I summarized what I felt were the most important points.
I find that if the claim that "USA government says it's cyber-terrorism" equals "no class action against Sony by former employees" is true, then it is a major piece of information. It gives a motive for many persons to say "North Korea, North Korea" instead of "We don't know, it could be anyone actually".
But, frankly, where did you read it ? The only legal way to read it (it's from today's issue), is to buy it online or in the kiosks. It can be read elsewhere, but only if you use some piracy (I found it for free on such a site which proposes illegaly some newspaper for free). I would find it very ironical if you used a non-ethical way to read it :)
I wish you a happy new year. I made my point already darling Frenchman. The only thing you do is sidetracking. Again:
So, when you just can't write how you read that piece of news you claim you read, it's a bit the same story : now you have make all this a matter of "you're with me and with free speech, or against me and with the dictators", you simply can't write anymore "ok, I didn't read it actually". Now it seems you keep on talking as if our way of life was at stake if you were caught in a lie. Believe me, no one here is that important ;)
And about free speech : now anyone can buy and see The Interview, or have it for free on some illegal sites (oh the irony). In the meantime, Exodus IS being banned from several countries. Right now. But no one fears any class action in this case....
But I agree that talking about the rights of employees to ask for protection of their data in their company is far less sexy than free speech and a few millionnaires' little troubles. Despite the fact it actually concerns all of us who work for a company here.
I see a lot.
Sorry for being a prick, but this is how you usually quote me :-). I'm not in the mood to have a discussion with you, because they are never nice or respectful. Although I try it hard.
Don't forget the likes of Robert Mugabe, IS and their ilk, the Arabic Emirates, Hungary, Italy to name a few were freedom of press depends upon the folks who call the shots. ANd while they currently get a better press, or no press at all, they define a lot in their part of the world.
And the US with its FOX news and rich people that get more and more political power through some really dodgy decisions of the Surpreme Court, is keeling more over to the extreme right than is actually healthy for any democracy.
I completely agree with you @SaintMark. Let me put it like this then. Regardless of the form/type of government -dictatorship, democracy, hybrid of both-, I personally take great pride in real well-thought freedom, without censorship. Ask yourself always in what particular nation you are better off with that. Because in the end it's no good to blaim others. In the end it's about what you can contribute to real freedom, real democracy.
It is not only these obvious dictatorships that have an unfree press. That same thing happens in the good ole US of A. It's not only Fox News, they are just the most obvious. All the other major news outlets are owned by multi-national corporations calling the shots. So press 'freedom' is somewhat of a misnomer in most countries. Advertising revenue is what determines what is broadcast and how it is broadcast.
At the end of the day, I'm waiting for more evidence to support this North Korea link. The timing of fingering them, as I've mentioned before, is questionable (Obama conveniently mentions it at the same time that he normalizes relations with communist Cuba - see my previous post). I've said before, he is a very cautious man, so he gave himself away when he drew attention to this issue and insisted that the movie be released, because if there was any real link to a physical terrorist attack threat, he would not have had been so blase as to insist that the movie be released in theatres at a busy time, when a subsequent theatre attack by anyone (including another lone nut) would have made him quite culpable. He would not have said that if there was a real terrorist attack threat. That raises many troubling questions in itself.
I choose to remember QoS and the water rather than the obvious oil, and TND and the manipulation or the facts by the media. There is more out there. We only hear the truth long after the fact if at all. As an example, we still don't know the full facts about Benghazi, and that happened 2 years ago. A lot of this is due to a 'lazy' media rather than a complicit one, but regardless, the result is the same.......less truth is broadcast.
That is completely different from discussing the merits or failings of Kim, or Erdogan or Putin.
Thanks @Suivez_ce_parachute for posting that article (I don't read French however) and for your interpretation. I patiently await more facts.
very interestig @suivez. Yes, Sony look real stupid here. They got caught with bad security and appear to have screwed over their employees.
I have no sympathy for obnoxious fat cats like Amy Pascal, but its shameful how the company appears to been so cavalier about their rank and file people's secure info.
Exodus is being banned!? Is that the new Batman as Moses action-hero film?
I think I must check it out.
I still don't have any big desire to see The Interview. It's one of those films that would barely register on my cinema radar.
However Exodus looks like a good spectacle film. Being banned by bad regimes is bonus.
Saw a funny tweet over Christmas. The guy said "just to be clear, what films is North Korea allowing us to watch this holidays? " :))
I am heading back to the big spoiler thread. I hear there is fresh new discussion regarding some contentious points. Invigorating stuff!
I think....you really didn't read my last post thoroughly. Nor did you get the central theme of it. So again:
Regardless of the form/type of government -dictatorship, democracy, hybrid of both-, I personally take great pride in real well-thought freedom, without censorship. Ask yourself always in what particular nation you are better off with that. Because in the end it's no good to blaim others. In the end it's about what you can contribute to real freedom, real democracy.
I did read it @Gustav_Graves. I don't disagree with you. I agree to freedom of thought and freedom of expression above all else. That is why I agree with people discussing the Sony leaks on a specific thread.....that is freedom of expression. As long as they don't impact other users who don't want to hear about it. I'm not judging them (who am I to judge?), I'm not discouraging them, and I'm not trying to stop them. I believe it's their right to do what they want as long as they don't hurt others. The discussion on that thread is very illuminating and interesting IMO. I am not judging anyone who does not want to read the leaks or participate in the thread either. That is entirely their right and their choice - or freedom of expression. I am extremely disappointed that anything has leaked about SP, but it has and it is what it is.
I was trying to point out in my previous post that although dictatorships are guilty of blocking freedom (that goes without saying), so-called democracies are guilty of this too, in more nefarious ways (because it's not so obvious and not called out so often) and I want to call attention to that. North American media is very different from Western European media, due to extremely concentrated media ownership and limited non-advertising based tv-news outlets.
I don't disagree with anything @Suivez has posted either. If blaming North Korea legally allows Sony to avoid a class action lawsuit, then that is one of the 'questions' that I said people should ask because it seems awfully convenient if this is the case.
Obviously we need more facts on this case, and I hope we get it.
The only "fact" we can discuss so far is that historically in democracies the most subtle censorship is to build strawmen to avoid the real questions... You can even send on the front line lots of Colin Powells who will be sincerely convinced they are telling the truth and will sincerely try to convince others they're right. And all those who want more than rumors before accusing anyone will look like conspiracy nuts to them. And yet, that's presumption of innocence, even dictators should have it : it's a far more demanding principle than "free speech for those who agree with me" :)
Maybe in a few years, FBI will release more evidence, but contrary to WMD that no one found in Iraq, here even with the code and all the network data, possibly no one will ever be able to know the truth only from these elements ! Sony's network was known to be full of holes for months (but they decided to hide that information, even from their own employees, the real victims.. far more than "free speech"), and well, the leaks continued until December because some of the executives didn't change the passwords despite all the media storm ! Is it really out of reach of some "lols" hackers ?!
The only "nuts and bolt" claim so far I've ever read, is that some claim to have found a connection between a former Sony employee and GOP.
Oh, btw, GOP used a French anonymous e-mail system to communicate with journalists :)
As for the claim Sony might avoid class action lawsuits if the attack is labelled officially as "cyber-terrorism", that's the opinion of Pr. Zittrain from Harvard. I found an English quote :
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/12/17/business/ap-us-sony-hack-north-korea.html?_r=0
One of the last great hurrahs of American journalism. For many papers today, such investigative journalism is too expensive to undertake. The great papers of yesterday are barely recognizable, having fallen victim to bloggers and instant news via the internet.
As the Sony hack illustrates, we are still adjusting to this new world. I empathize with employees whose personal info was hacked. Clearly measures should have been in place to protect that kind of information. Sony execs whose inflammatory emails were released, I could care less. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows emails containing sensitive or inflammatory comments can easily be seen by anyone in an IT department, much less hackers intent on doing harm.
The idea that Sony has stood up, taken a stand, and defended freedom makes me laugh.
The history of defending freedom won't include this silliness as an example of bravery.
If anything, it will be an object lesson of green lighting a project not well thought through. Whether NK is connected with the hacking or not, who can blame them for being offended by the film, which doesn't condone or justify theirs or another's response.
That no one is entirely sure who the real perpetrators are raises the level of absurdity.
Have you read this article from a few days ago?
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/27/tech/north-korea-expert-doubts-about-hack/
It really does look like North Korea doesn't have much to do with these attacks...
As for the hackings not being good for the Bond franchise, I'm not sure I would agree with that. It's certainly not good for Spectre, but all of this will be forgotten by the time they start working on Bond 25, which possible won't be a Sony Pictures film anyway (and not just beacuse of the hackings).
Yes, Kim Jong Un is a dictator and the world would be a better place without him, but can you name just one leader on Earth who would just simply laugh about a movie about him or her being assassinated? As for nations lacking humour, how about the United States? The majority of American movie critics disliked the European movie Dogville back in 2003 for being Anti-American.
I live in Hungary and as much as I despise the current prime minister and his government, I wouldn't group Hungary with countries like North Korea, Zimbabwe or the United Arab Emirates when it comes to freedom of press. I'm not so sure about printed media, but jounalists can pretty much write anything online about the government without negative consequences. They certainly won't get jailed for badmouthing the leadership like journalist in the other countries you mentioned.
But don't forget.....Dutch anti-Muslim xenophobic politician Geert Wilders is a great "advocate of freedom" as well. I advocate freedom as a cause to let us think about the matter and to act accordingly. To be nuanced in our comments, to think twice before we post stuff, to educate ourselves what freedom is, to at least try to conduct proper journalism.
But abusing the word "freedom" to justify xenophobic political agendas, or to justify criminally obtained stuff, is what should be prevented fully. Hell, even Joseph Goebbels and Adolf Hitler once said that "the people voted in freedom". That's not freedom. That's a hollow empty word. An instrument to justify crime, dictatorship, populism and sick propaganda. Freedom for me has a way more complicated meaning. For me it's also an instrument to protect long-term freedom.....until the Earth dies when the Sun turns into a red giant.
So I fully agree with @NicNac and @Pierce2Daniel here. It's certainly a very good idea to moderate these SonyLeaks topics more fiercefully. All for the sake of real long-term kind of freedom that has a deeper meaning, and not for the sake of "sick freedom" as an instrument which we can throw to others like a ball.