Rant on M,Q and Moneypenny

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  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Bond:Pity about your liver, sir. An unusually fine Solera. '51 I believe.

    M:There is no year for sherry, 007.

    Bond:I was referring to the original vintage on which the sherry is based, sir. 1851, unmistakable.

    I think these moments are missed.

    Aye that they are.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    jobo wrote: »
    I don't want to sound like an asshole... ;) but when I read the statement that "MP has always been white" I couldn't help thinking of this:

    Moneypenny should be a penguin? I... I'm not clear on this...
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    jobo wrote: »
    I don't want to sound like an asshole... ;) but when I read the statement that "MP has always been white" I couldn't help thinking of this:





    When was ever the skin coulour an important trait of MPs character? And to me there is nothing lacking with their chemistry.

    Wow! That video just sums up why so many people have low opinions of Americans.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I like all three of the new characters. Fienne's M reminds me of Robert Brown's M. And he wasn't much older than Moore. Ben's Q is fantastic, fresh and original. I'm glad they didn't try to redo Major Boothroyd. Naomi's Moneypenny is hit and miss with the oneliners but I like her. She's my second favorite Moneypenny and is leagues better than Samantha Bond and the dreadful Caroline Bliss. Hopefully SPECTRE will give her some better material. I liked the banter between her and Craig.
  • Whilst I don't like the fact that everything seems to get updated to the max, I agree with @DoubleOhhSeven about Q. Llewelyn's departure in TWINE is the only time I shed a tear, apart from him I've never been that sad to see anyone go.

    Fiennes as M is the most brilliant casting job in my opinion, I'm very excited to see him in SPECTRE.

    That thing about Moneypenny being black is just racist. Like others have said before, you might not have meant it that way, but saying things like 'that's something you just don't do' does make it sound racist. Skincolor has nothing to do with the character. Up until now, all of the lead characters have been dominated by white actors and I thought it was high time someone with a non-white skincolor was cast for a recurring part (apart from Leiter). Honestly I do think people are used to the underrepresentation of black people in cinema and I don't mean to start getting all dramatic, but I'm glad these dated kind of mindsets don't apply to a franchise like Bond anymore. And I like the way they changed her position in Skyfall. Her chemistry with Bond was a bit forced at times, I agree, and she probably will be desk bound for the rest of the series anyway, but she's young and fresh and like other women today she doesn't just sit behind her desk and type on her little typewriting but she's active within MI6, even if she's meant to be a secretary.

    Btw I don't mean to sound very mean or hostile, so sorry if you might take it that way.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 7,507
    Just to make that clear: I did not intend to 'bash Americans'. I know Fox News don't represent the country as a whole. (Although it is hard to imagine a channel like that existing many places elsewhere).

    But the discussion reminded me a bit of the one we're having now. The outrage of a fictional character, with, in this case, no specific race traits, being black and not white... If you don't like her chemistry with Craig, fine. But skin colour should be irrelevant when we discuss her character.

    And note: I am not childishly accusing anyone of racism here. Only of being unnecessary picky traditionalists... on thin premises...
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited December 2014 Posts: 2,138
    Sensitive topic, wires being crossed me thinks. Seen this subject on other forums always ends ugly. Moving on...
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    jobo wrote: »
    Just to make that clear: I did not intend to 'bash Americans'. I know Fox News don't represent the country as a whole. (Although it is hard to imagine a channel like that existing many places elsewhere).

    But who was Sky news? ;)
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    So I have been doing a James Bond marathon recently. Every night I watch a Bond film. I started with Dr.No and will work my way up to Skyfall.. While watching the old films I started to realize the many problems I have with Daniel Craig's films!

    First of all. M and Q. I really think M and Q should be about twenty years older than Craig. To me it just isn't convincing at all.
    Don't get me wrong I think Ben is a great actor but he looks more like an assistant to me. Ralph is actually a great choice but he looks like he could be a field agent! To me they should have casted older actors.

    Now Moneypenny.. At first I had a major issue with her being black.
    I am not a racist but "MP" has always been white. It's like making Bond black. It's just something you don't do. The people in Bond aren't code names they are actual people just being replaced by actors. Am I the only one that feels like they have no chemistry at all??
    In the old films I always felt like Bond and Moneypenny had a past romance and something happened but you could always tell there was chemistry.

    Does anyone else have these problems and concerns?


    Felix used to be white also.

    M used to be a male (well as of a couple of years ago).

    Q used to be old.

    Sorry, not seeing the big deal in Moneypenny being black.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited December 2014 Posts: 4,585
    I always thought Naomie Harris looked like one of the women in the LALD title sequence. Go to the 2:07 mark.

    youtu.be/xr1Ec7a4TZM
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    I always thought Naomie Harris looked like one of the women in the LALD title sequence. Go to the 2:07 mark.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xr1Ec7a4TZM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    youtu.be/xr1Ec7a4TZM

    Yes, they certainly are both black.

    Well now that you mentions it…. :))
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    TripAces wrote: »
    I always thought Naomie Harris looked like one of the women in the LALD title sequence. Go to the 2:07 mark.

    youtu.be/xr1Ec7a4TZM

    Not really. Btw, you can link directly to that moment by clicking where it says share, checking the box that says "start at" and imputing the appropriate time. Like this.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Moneypenny peaked for me with Caroline Bliss.
    Any other actress will do, I guess.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Sark wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    I always thought Naomie Harris looked like one of the women in the LALD title sequence. Go to the 2:07 mark.

    youtu.be/xr1Ec7a4TZM

    Not really. Btw, you can link directly to that moment by clicking where it says share, checking the box that says "start at" and imputing the appropriate time. Like this.

    I tried it over and over: couldn't get the embed to work. Maybe it's my browser?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Naomie and Craig have wonderful chemistry and I am so very happy she is Moneypenny now.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I definitely prefer her to Samantha Bond
    :-O wOw, no one's ever agreed with me on this Moneypenny level before!!!
    Birdleson wrote: »
    , but, for me, Lois Maxwell is the one I will always associate with the role.
    She, like Connery, is iconic.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Bliss was lovely and just given a stupid role. I would have enjoyed her return, if better written.

    I enjoyed Samantha Bond's Moneypenny a lot actually.
  • I've voiced my approval for Caroline Bliss on these threads before. She had a charming quirkiness to her that I found endearing. I prefer her to Samantha Bond as I'm old school and prefer the pre-P.C. Moneypenny. The one that was allowed to pine over 007 only for Bond to flirt with her but turn her down. Bond is supposed to be ridiculously handsome and have women drool over him. A lonely secretary being one of those women made sense. But then with Brosnan and Craig we're meant to believe Bond is more interested in her than she is in him. That never sat well with me.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    To be honest I am more perturbed about the increasing screen time taken up by these characters than anything to do with how they are portrayed or who plays them. Dont forget theyve also shoe horned Tanner into the mix now (who seems a very superfluous character to me). Bond is not Mission Impossible so I dont want him to be checking in with his team at every juncture. He should be on his own trying to save Blighty with, at most, the help of a fit girl and a colourful local ally.

    But to address the issues of the original post:

    M- Fiennes looks perfect. A perfect blend respect for Bond and his talents and sneering contempt at how he sometimes goes about things. The old office is back and I hope (but know without reading the leaked script that it wont happen) that Bond just has one or two scenes with M there and thats it.

    MP - Harris seems reasonably capable in the role. I found some of the banter a bit stilted and most of that poor delivery seemed to be her. I actually thought she was a better actress than she seemed to be in SF. Nonetheless at the end of the day its not a particularly important role and she does have the right level of allure that MP should have - namely she should be shaggable to an average bloke but not Eva Green/Berenice Marlohe shaggable, which is unattainable except for a bloke like Bond. The black thing is too tedious to discuss, the main thing is I think Harris pulls off the notion that she might have been to Roedean and then in the Wrens which is the sort of career trajectory I imagine for MP. One last thing - I never want to see her in the field again unless its like Lois used to pop up with M on location.

    Q - While I loved Ben in the role and dont mind the young whippersnapper dynamic with Bond I see some have posted that it makes sense that the modern day Q should be a computer geek. I dont want this. Allow me to point something out that seems to have been missed - watching someone hack a computer or open a lock with a phone app is dull, dull, dull. Watching someone use a pen grenade or a watch to blow a door open is fun. The only point of Q should be to supply Bond with tools (his title is Quartermaster for Christ's sake) not analysing satellite intelligence. If we are having Q back then lets have some decent gadgets (in moderation; I'm not talking Bondola here) - and a gadget is not an app its a physical thing.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    What gadgets, I saw an interview with Dan on the subject and he was spot on technology is so far beyond that its too dificult to come up with gadgets that are not already out on the market without them being too silly or farfetched. Bond needs to stay fresh and adapt to the modern world in which the films are set. The new films address and represent a multi cultural brittan, I do agree there seems too be to much M, Tanner in recent films but to draw in top actors you need to give them screen time. The gadgets, gags and unrealistic stunts had left a hole which has now been replaced with charachter back story. But this was required to keep the franchise fresh. So many people I speak to men and women of all ages colours and creed did not enjoy pre Dan films they found them macho and silly. But now they love it some now have gone back and now appreciate the earlier films. Not everyone was going to be happy with the changes but it had to adapt to go forward to intice a new generation of fans. You can't spend £250M making a Bond movie if it doesnt put bums on seats.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    What gadgets, I saw an interview with Dan on the subject and he was spot on technology is so far beyond that its too dificult to come up with gadgets that are not already out on the market without them being too silly or farfetched. Bond needs to stay fresh and adapt to the modern world in which the films are set. The new films address and represent a multi cultural brittan, I do agree there seems too be to much M, Tanner in recent films but to draw in top actors you need to give them screen time. The gadgets, gags and unrealistic stunts had left a hole which has now been replaced with charachter back story. But this was required to keep the franchise fresh. So many people I speak to men and women of all ages colours and creed did not enjoy pre Dan films they found them macho and silly. But now they love it some now have gone back and now appreciate the earlier films. Not everyone was going to be happy with the changes but it had to adapt to go forward to intice a new generation of fans. You can't spend £250M making a Bond movie if it doesnt put bums on seats.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    So many people I speak to men and women of all ages colours and creed did not enjoy pre Dan films they found them macho and silly.
    I personally polled over seven hundred thousand people last Thursday and 67% said they still have a fondness for some or all of Brosnan's movies, so that kind of proves you wrong.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Naomie and Craig have wonderful chemistry and I am so very happy she is Moneypenny now.

    Me. too. I think she is great. As long as she is not promoted to the new M...
  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    Posts: 1,208
    I think the Whitehall team are fantastic
  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    Posts: 1,208
    I hope Q, gets into the field a bit this time and hope Moneypenny doesn't, never again in the film.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    e="SirHilaryBray;400002"]Sensitive topic, wires being crossed me things. Seen this subject on other forums always ends ugly. Moving on...[/quote]
    Sensitive topic, wires being crossed me things. Seen this subject on other forums always ends ugly. Moving on...
    chrisisall wrote: »
    So many people I speak to men and women of all ages colours and creed did not enjoy pre Dan films they found them macho and silly.
    I personally polled over seven hundred thousand people last Thursday and 67% said they still have a fondness for some or all of Brosnan's movies, so that kind of proves you wrong.

    Hi Golum,
    Anothet comment I post and your straight on arguing the opposite. Who did you poll Bond fans?. The people Im talking about are fans of Dan's films their not dedicated enough to be on fan sites. Lets see your poll results?. Everyone knows you like to put up posts to wynd people up you really need to grow up, get a life and stop the trolling.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    He asked me. I am among the 33 per cent, by the way.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    No one has a sense of humour anymore. How could ONE PERSON poll 700,000 people in a day? If you could poll one person a minute for 24 hrs it wouldn't even get to 1.500. I guess I should have said seventy million, eh?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    No one has a sense of humour anymore. How could ONE PERSON poll 700,000 people in a day? If you could poll one person a minute for 24 hrs it wouldn't even get to 1.500. I guess I should have said seventy million, eh?

    It would be statistically more significant. Not like you have anything better to do. Right?
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    I ask the question when you discuss the new films with people, what I hear is I like Dan's films, was not fan before then. Dont you hear this a lot?
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