The Bond Movies & Actors I Can't Stand (Negativity Only Please)

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 2016 Posts: 8,395
    I suspect that it's largely Americans who don't 'get' Dalton's Bond and see him as a poor man's Craig. Nothing could be further from the truth imo. Craig's Bond is superficial in comparison with what Dalton gave us.

    Totally agree. Everyone praise Craig's Bond for his vulnerability but who here genuinely feels sorry for someone who can seduce any woman and smash through walls and jump off buildings without getting a scratch. Dalton is actually helped by the fact that he's not built like a shithouse. He's quite normal looking, just a bit wolf like from certain angles. The Fleming Bond wasn't that impressive to look at. This whole power fantasy "men want to be him, women want to be on him" is purely a cinematic invention. Dalton isn't very sexy or strong, and IMO that makes him a better more authentic character.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited April 2016 Posts: 9,020
    edited: it would be funny if it wasn't so sad what is going on here, obviously I am the bad one, hilarious.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,135
    @BondJasonBond006 please don't bait members. It's not something that is looked upon kindly here, and will land you a warning if you continue to do it.
  • Posts: 4,044
    Please nobody ever type "Daltons Twins" ever again.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    "Daltward" ;)
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    bondjames wrote: »
    To be fair, he didn't get the best support from Cubby and Co., who really weren't 100% sure about what direction to take. The timing was just off, and moreover, I think they tried to incorporate elements from other 80's action films of the time (particularly in LTK) that just didn't meld well into the Bond universe. Dalton was a bit of an innovator and a little ahead of his time but he had little to draw from apart from the written word of Fleming.

    By 2006, they had a much better idea of how to approach this, because they had the benefit of the novel to work with and Bourne/Wayne had given them some perspective on how to toughen Bond up while still delving into his psyche. Craig benefited from being able to actually see Bale & Damon before he took over, as well as draw from what worked with Dalton and what didn't.


    You read my mind with this, that's what ive always been thinking.

    I only would say that Dalton gave a great performance in bith films and with script and actors well they got them write the problem was the production design and score which gave it a tv movie vibe with a better production design and budget the films would have been much better

  • I suspect that it's largely Americans who don't 'get' Dalton's Bond and see him as a poor man's Craig. Nothing could be further from the truth imo. Craig's Bond is superficial in comparison with what Dalton gave us.

    Totally agree. Everyone praise Craig's Bond for his vulnerability but who here genuinely feels sorry for someone who can seduce any woman and smash through walls and jump off buildings without getting a scratch. Dalton is actually helped by the fact that he's not built like a shithouse. He's quite normal looking, just a bit wolf like from certain angles. The Fleming Bond wasn't that impressive to look at. This whole power fantasy "men want to be him, women want to be on him" is purely a cinematic invention. Dalton isn't very sexy or strong, and IMO that makes him a better more authentic character.

    Right back at you. Well explained.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    I suspect that it's largely Americans who don't 'get' Dalton's Bond and see him as a poor man's Craig. Nothing could be further from the truth imo. Craig's Bond is superficial in comparison with what Dalton gave us.

    Totally agree. Everyone praise Craig's Bond for his vulnerability but who here genuinely feels sorry for someone who can seduce any woman and smash through walls and jump off buildings without getting a scratch. Dalton is actually helped by the fact that he's not built like a shithouse. He's quite normal looking, just a bit wolf like from certain angles. The Fleming Bond wasn't that impressive to look at. This whole power fantasy "men want to be him, women want to be on him" is purely a cinematic invention. Dalton isn't very sexy or strong, and IMO that makes him a better more authentic character.
    YES! THIS!!
  • w2bond wrote: »
    My rant is that Newman ruined Skyfall and Spectre for me. If the score had been decent I might have overlooked the unsuspenseful action scenes, the Bond-Blofeld connection, etc. The cut and paste job is so lazy, and the original score wasn't thrilling to begin with (unlike Barry's *007 theme")

    Diamonds are Forever is my exhibit here. For the most part the movie is so painfully bad and a f-you to the film before it but Barry's quirky score (and the dialogue) makes it a hoot to watch

    Newman's score could have been more Bond-ish I agree. I would disagree about suspense, the track 'Jellyfish' very well accompanies the scene where Bond follows Patrice in the skyscraper, and 'Welcome to Scotland' made the attack on Skyfall very dark and foreboding. But he definitely needs to use the Bond theme more. The cut and paste job for SP is also disappointing.

    Ehhh most will disagree but DAF, whilst still a great score - it is a Barry score - is I think one of his weaker efforts. Most moments scored very well. But the track used for the moon buggy sequence sounds like an irritating video game sound effect on repeat. It makes the scene even more embarrassing. That particular track is down there with 'Ladies First', IMO.
  • I disagree that Dalton's acting is necessarily bad in LTK. He is not unconvincing, he is simply more rougher and intense. Considering the plotline he has no reason to be subtle. In fact, the intensity works with the overall tone of the film, to make the film feel darker and more unsettling.

    CR's objective is to show a vulnerable and emotional Bond. LTK's objective is simply to unnerve. Both actors portrayal of Bond work towards this.

    I do agree that TLD is a better portrayal from Dalton though.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    I think the idea of Dalton is that he's the least "in control" of the Bonds, with perhaps the exception of early Craig. The idea was that Dalton had a generally cool, calm exterior like any James Bond, but was inwardly seething and quick to anger.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    w2bond wrote: »
    My rant is that Newman ruined Skyfall and Spectre for me. If the score had been decent I might have overlooked the unsuspenseful action scenes, the Bond-Blofeld connection, etc. The cut and paste job is so lazy, and the original score wasn't thrilling to begin with (unlike Barry's *007 theme")

    Diamonds are Forever is my exhibit here. For the most part the movie is so painfully bad and a f-you to the film before it but Barry's quirky score (and the dialogue) makes it a hoot to watch

    Newman's score could have been more Bond-ish I agree. I would disagree about suspense, the track 'Jellyfish' very well accompanies the scene where Bond follows Patrice in the skyscraper, and 'Welcome to Scotland' made the attack on Skyfall very dark and foreboding. But he definitely needs to use the Bond theme more. The cut and paste job for SP is also disappointing.

    Ehhh most will disagree but DAF, whilst still a great score - it is a Barry score - is I think one of his weaker efforts. Most moments scored very well. But the track used for the moon buggy sequence sounds like an irritating video game sound effect on repeat. It makes the scene even more embarrassing. That particular track is down there with 'Ladies First', IMO.

    @IncompetentHenchman

    Funny you should mention that. That was Guy Hamilton's insistence.

    From "The Music of James Bond"

    "...film's tone was much lighter...led to a difference of opinion on how the film's "Moon Buggy Chase should be handled...Hamilton to suggest a comic touch..."Wrong", said Barry...you can't spoof a spoof. [Barry's] theory is the music must play straight and pull in the audience, not play games with them. Hamilton wanted some fluffly, whimsical music."

    Barry's original track for the chase is on the 2003 CD and is heard in the film towards the end of the chase

    I've also learnt that many poor musical choices aren't Barry's decision. California girls, misplaced Bond theme at the start of piz gloria shoot out...
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I suspect that it's largely Americans who don't 'get' Dalton's Bond and see him as a poor man's Craig. Nothing could be further from the truth imo. Craig's Bond is superficial in comparison with what Dalton gave us.

    I respectfully don't agree. In the opinion of many myself included Dalton is too stiff and unnatural and the productions of both films are sub par.

  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Yeah, Dalton overacted the most out of the Bonds, which normally wouldn't be possible with someone like Brosnan around.

    But to quote Sanchez, "he has class".
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Yeah, Dalton overacted the most out of the Bonds, which normally wouldn't be possible with someone like Brosnan around.

    But to quote Sanchez, "he has class".

    ...and I agree there. I am a Dalton fan. Not a John Glen fan.
  • w2bond wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    My rant is that Newman ruined Skyfall and Spectre for me. If the score had been decent I might have overlooked the unsuspenseful action scenes, the Bond-Blofeld connection, etc. The cut and paste job is so lazy, and the original score wasn't thrilling to begin with (unlike Barry's *007 theme")

    Diamonds are Forever is my exhibit here. For the most part the movie is so painfully bad and a f-you to the film before it but Barry's quirky score (and the dialogue) makes it a hoot to watch

    Newman's score could have been more Bond-ish I agree. I would disagree about suspense, the track 'Jellyfish' very well accompanies the scene where Bond follows Patrice in the skyscraper, and 'Welcome to Scotland' made the attack on Skyfall very dark and foreboding. But he definitely needs to use the Bond theme more. The cut and paste job for SP is also disappointing.

    Ehhh most will disagree but DAF, whilst still a great score - it is a Barry score - is I think one of his weaker efforts. Most moments scored very well. But the track used for the moon buggy sequence sounds like an irritating video game sound effect on repeat. It makes the scene even more embarrassing. That particular track is down there with 'Ladies First', IMO.

    @IncompetentHenchman

    Funny you should mention that. That was Guy Hamilton's insistence.

    From "The Music of James Bond"

    "...film's tone was much lighter...led to a difference of opinion on how the film's "Moon Buggy Chase should be handled...Hamilton to suggest a comic touch..."Wrong", said Barry...you can't spoof a spoof. [Barry's] theory is the music must play straight and pull in the audience, not play games with them. Hamilton wanted some fluffly, whimsical music."

    Barry's original track for the chase is on the 2003 CD and is heard in the film towards the end of the chase

    I've also learnt that many poor musical choices aren't Barry's decision. California girls, misplaced Bond theme at the start of piz gloria shoot out...

    Ughhh I despise Hamilton even more now. Thank you for enlightening me. And the Bond theme does sound a little misplaced somehow in OHMSS.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited April 2016 Posts: 1,984
    Hamilton's directing in his later films is just ridiculous in my opinion. They couldn't get anything done because he was too obsessed with these farcical moments that, in my opinion, weren't even funny and only served to detract from the actual plot. Now that's something that plagued the entire 70's era of Bond, but Hamilton's films especially come off as indecisive and disjointed. Moments where he has Moore playing Bond like Connery really highlight his ineffectual directing.

    As cartoonish as Moonraker was, at least Gilbert had a sense of what Moore wanted to play Bond like. There was much more coordination in '77 and '79 than in '73 and '74, in my opinion.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    So when Dalton finds Della raped and murdered, he's meant to show restraint and subtlety? Laughable

    That scene is terribly acted by Dalton. When I first saw the film way back in 89 this was the scene where I thought to myself, "He's crap in this!"

    His big overdone sigh and the OTT way he cries "DELLA!" are bloody laughable.

  • Posts: 4,325
    So when Dalton finds Della raped and murdered, he's meant to show restraint and subtlety? Laughable

    That scene is terribly acted by Dalton. When I first saw the film way back in 89 this was the scene where I thought to myself, "He's crap in this!"

    His big overdone sigh and the OTT way he cries "DELLA!" are bloody laughable.

    That scene is superbly acted by Dalton. Why didn't he get an oscar for it?
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    bondjames wrote: »
    I felt it was overused by Arnold. I'm one of those who is quite happy not to hear it as much these days, except in key moments where it has more impact (end of CR or Aston reveal in SF). Having said that, if it is going to be used, I'd prefer it be incorporated into a new composition, as Newman himself did brilliantly during the SP pretitles, and which Barry did notably many times in the past.

    Joe Kraemer did a similar thing on MI-RN and it was one of the best scores I've heard in ages. Opening scene of that film alone shows how it should be done. Absolutely excellent scoring.

    That's a great score and he interweaves the Mission Impossible theme at the right times and doesn't overuse it.

    Also liked the way he incorporated the opera music at later points in the film.

    Watched it twice now. Gotta get my fix of Rebecca Ferguson....!
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    NicNac wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    It's because Dalton is a theatrical actor. Acting in the theatre and on screen are very different. On the theatre you want to make everything 'big'; whereas on screen because an audience can see you up close, it's all about subtlety. Dalton, certainly at that time, was an actor more suited to the stage in my opinion.

    Always been my argument.

    Watch the dining car scene in FRWL. Watch Connery, watch his movement, his expressions. That's film acting.

    Now watch anything Dalton does in LTK.

    Also, watch Craig in CR when he is outside the Embassy with a gun at the head of the bomb maker, surrounded by Embassy guards. Watch his face, and it's all there, in his eyes. Barely a change of expression, but it's all there. Film acting.

    Now watch anything Dalton does in LTK.

    Completely agree. The strange thing is that Dalton was subtle and gave a great performance in TLD.

    It makes his performance in LTK even more mystifying.

    I think he made the old mistake of trying too hard in LTK.


  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    The delivery of the some of the lines in TLD were worlds away from being perfect, but in general he didn't overact as much. For example, when he burst the balloon, he was clearly angry but wasn't overdoing it like he did when he discovered the bodies in LTK.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    So when Dalton finds Della raped and murdered, he's meant to show restraint and subtlety? Laughable

    That scene is terribly acted by Dalton. When I first saw the film way back in 89 this was the scene where I thought to myself, "He's crap in this!"

    His big overdone sigh and the OTT way he cries "DELLA!" are bloody laughable.

    That scene is superbly acted by Dalton. Why didn't he get an oscar for it?

    I'm assuming that's a joke...?!!!

    Certainly made me laugh!
  • Posts: 4,325
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    So when Dalton finds Della raped and murdered, he's meant to show restraint and subtlety? Laughable

    That scene is terribly acted by Dalton. When I first saw the film way back in 89 this was the scene where I thought to myself, "He's crap in this!"

    His big overdone sigh and the OTT way he cries "DELLA!" are bloody laughable.

    That scene is superbly acted by Dalton. Why didn't he get an oscar for it?

    I'm assuming that's a joke...?!!!

    Certainly made me laugh!

    I'm tempted to say I'm being deadly serious but as this isn't video I can't give you my deadly Daltonator stare to go with it.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Yes, very sarcastic lol.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I have to admit that the first time I saw LTK, that Della scene in particular made me cringe. I remember thinking as well, this is not the Bond I know. Compose yourself for Pete's sake!.

    The boat scene with Pam (" It's a tough business you picked, Miss Bouvier. - Leave it to the professionals!") also was discomfiting, but that was more on account of the writing, as was "Are you calling me a horse's arse?" from TLD.

    Despite this, Dalton more than made up for it with his performance in other parts of both films, which was top notch. He came across quite 'real', if that makes sense.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    So when Dalton finds Della raped and murdered, he's meant to show restraint and subtlety? Laughable

    That scene is terribly acted by Dalton. When I first saw the film way back in 89 this was the scene where I thought to myself, "He's crap in this!"

    His big overdone sigh and the OTT way he cries "DELLA!" are bloody laughable.

    Bang on the money.

    I remember going in thinking this scene will be epic given his electric reaction in the Saunders death scene but then you just get 'DELLA' to some blonde bimbo who we've never met before but is such a close friend that she doesnt know about Tracy.

    Awful.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    So when Dalton finds Della raped and murdered, he's meant to show restraint and subtlety? Laughable

    That scene is terribly acted by Dalton. When I first saw the film way back in 89 this was the scene where I thought to myself, "He's crap in this!"

    His big overdone sigh and the OTT way he cries "DELLA!" are bloody laughable.

    Bang on the money.



    I remember going in thinking this scene will be epic given his electric reaction in the Saunders death scene but then you just get 'DELLA' to some blonde bimbo who we've never met before but is such a close friend that she doesnt know about Tracy.

    Awful.

    Exactly. You'd have thought Felix would have mentioned it to her at some point so she didn't put her foot in it at their wedding!

    I really wanted to like LTK and after the excellent TLD I had high hopes for it. I was bitterly disappointed with it way back then and even now find it hard to sit through.

    A couple of things I did like was the pre-credits sequence, the Pam Bouvier character and the extended part for Q.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    1989 was a year for epic larger than life entries (what with the introduction of movie Bat and the return of Indiana Jones etc.) and LTK was anything but that. I'm sure that hurt its appeal with most fans and casual movie goers, which is a pity because it's a unique Bond entry, if decidedly low key.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited April 2016 Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    1989 was a year for epic larger than life entries (what with the introduction of movie Bat and the return of Indiana Jones etc.) and LTK was anything but that. I'm sure that hurt its appeal with most fans and casual movie goers, which is a pity because it's a unique Bond entry, if decidedly low key.

    After the life changing experience with TLD I was left devastated with disappointment when I saw LTK at the cinema. I was young (15) and expected more of the same.
    LTK was just too different and way too brutal.
    It came at the wrong time I think.

    The only other two Bond movies that left me totally disappointed were TWINE and SF.

    Of course LTK is in my Top 10 nowadays. It was ahead of its time. Something I wish I could say about TWINE and SF but they are just plain boring and dreary.
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