Why did they not replace Roger Moore in 1980?

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited January 2015 Posts: 9,117
    flopping about on train rooftops?
    they're the worst-reviewed in the entire series.

    607bc1189a7a92f8f197d8f07d1ee1ff944261e9a80979141624d2cbd60d2c41.jpg


    I like the way you only mention the stupid stuff (which apparently is all Rog's is fault because I'm sure he went to Cubby and said 'I'll tell you what Cubby I reckon if we put a slide whistle over the car jump it would be awesome') from his films.

    Connery never seems to get any of your ire for DAF and despite your perception that Rog made all these calls, Sean in DAF had far more sway over the script than Rog ever did. With the deal he negotiated he could have easily said 'lose the moon buggy, the elephant playing the slots, Blofeld in drag etc or I'm not doing it.' But he just banked the cheque.

    Anyway fun though this is back on topic. As others have stated EON is first and foremost in the business of making money and Rog did that. I think the Tracy's grave scene was written with a new Bond in mind as Rog was at the end of his contract but given the dearth of candidates and the fact Rog was putting bums on seats it would have been folly to let him go.

    Its like EON not offering DC millions to continue. If you have a Bond who is bringing home the bacon you try and keep him for as long as is physically possible, although I think we'd all agree that AVTAK (and parts of OP) probably went beyond this point.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    doubleohdad's hatred of Moore is so strong that he's called the ridiculous aspects of DAF and other pre-Moore films "Moore-esque". Apparently Moore was influencing the series before he even began!
  • Posts: 11,189
    Connery's silly German accent in DAF is arguably goofier than anything Moore himself did.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Connery's silly German accent in DAF is arguably goofier than anything Moore himself did.

    "Who is your floor?" That's somewhat clownesque to me, what do you say @doublohdad?

    Or what about the fact that Tiffany Case (two bit diamond smuggler) has heard of British secret agent James Bond? That bit always got a laugh out of me.

  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    I blame tom mankiewicz for the idiotic camp humor he brought in as paired with guy hamilton and roger Moore. Lewis Gilbert really cranked it up when he came back. Not sure how much christopher wood was to blame as he hated a lot of moores one liners he changed from what was in the script.
    Glen, while not much of a director, tried to bring the classic bond back. He just had to wait until 1986 to do it. He tried like hell to toughen up bond, much to moores chagrin.
    If I was the producer, after seeing how much glen had to do to convince Moore to kick that damned car off the cliff, I would be on the phone looking at replacements for bond. Moore wasn't comfortable doing the physical and rough parts of bond...that's the role, roger. You don't want to do it or you don't feel comfortable doing it, get the hell out of the way, there's another actor who can do the part justice that you just can't do.
    Bond is not a giggler, as you put it. His name isn't jimmy bond, no matter how many times you call him that in commentaries or interviews.
    Roger Moore was the casting choice when it came down to everyone else either turning it down or being vetoed. I would rather the series just stopped for a while and took a break in the 70s before coming back with new blood and a new game plan. But it didn't. We have almost 24 films now of extremely varying quality and we've got a choice to own all of them or just the ones we like or tolerate.
  • Posts: 1,146
    I blame tom mankiewicz for the idiotic camp humor he brought in as paired with guy hamilton and roger Moore. Lewis Gilbert really cranked it up when he came back. Not sure how much christopher wood was to blame as he hated a lot of moores one liners he changed from what was in the script.
    Glen, while not much of a director, tried to bring the classic bond back. He just had to wait until 1986 to do it. He tried like hell to toughen up bond, much to moores chagrin.
    If I was the producer, after seeing how much glen had to do to convince Moore to kick that damned car off the cliff, I would be on the phone looking at replacements for bond. Moore wasn't comfortable doing the physical and rough parts of bond...that's the role, roger. You don't want to do it or you don't feel comfortable doing it, get the hell out of the way, there's another actor who can do the part justice that you just can't do.
    Bond is not a giggler, as you put it. His name isn't jimmy bond, no matter how many times you call him that in commentaries or interviews.
    Roger Moore was the casting choice when it came down to everyone else either turning it down or being vetoed. I would rather the series just stopped for a while and took a break in the 70s before coming back with new blood and a new game plan. But it didn't. We have almost 24 films now of extremely varying quality and we've got a choice to own all of them or just the ones we like or tolerate.

    I agree with a lot of this. Basically, they chased Goldfinger all the way cross the 70's, yet GF had a serious tone at times, which escaped the 70's films as they went along.
  • Posts: 1,146
    He's just a guy. He's not a god. He's not even a saint. He can be criticized just like anyone else.

    Legacy?

    And of course his films can be criticized, they're the worst-reviewed in the entire series. He sure had no issue taking the money as the films got worse and worse.

    He starred in the worst reviewed films in the series if you go by Rotten Tomatoes, which seems to be your bible. But the fact of the matter is that every Bond actor starred in atleast one film that was not well recieved by critics. As my favorite actor of all time, Charles Bronson, once said, "I don't make movies for film critics because they don't pay to see them anyhow". At the end of the day it's the audience that matters most. The way an audience shows its approval is by buying tickets. So lets talk about Moore's "legacy" in that regard.

    LALD, TSWLM, and MR (adjusted for inflation) grossed more money than all of Brosnan's films, both of Dalton's, and OHMSS. LALD grossed only a little less than CR and QOS. But what's even more telling is that the only Bond films to gross more than TSWLM and Moonraker are Skyfall, Thunderball, Goldfinger, and You Only Live Twice. Moonraker is the last Bond film to have the distinction of the being the highest grossing film of the year. Not even Skyfall can lay claim to that. These aren't moot opinions. They're cold hard facts. That's Moore's legacy. Being an undeniably massive success in the role of James Bond.
    Dalton should have been brought on after moonraker. They bled Moore dry after 85

    And yet when Dalton was brought in his films didn't fare any better than Moore's later efforts. Worse actually as both FYEO and Octopussy outgrossed TLD while LTK was the lowest grossing entry in the entire series. Casual audiences were tired of the Bond series in general during the 80s. The actor playing the character wasn't to blame. 6 Bond films were released during an 8 year span during the 80s. For the average fan it was a Bond overload.


    You're talking financial success, not quality of the pictures. Different, man. People went to see these films knowing they were parodies, and they made a lot of money for the studio and the Broccoli family, but they lacked in quality big-time.

    DO you really think Bronson was prouder of the quality stuff he did or those financially successful 70's films he did?

    Danton's films failed because the public now thought of Bond as a parody and it took twenty years for the public to accept a serious, action-oriented Bond again in Craig.

    The jokes and parody are all over the Moore films. If you wanna call that successful, that's up to you, but they are out-and-out comedies and should be treated as such.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Murdock wrote: »
    Charles Bronson, once said, "I don't make movies for film critics because they don't pay to see them anyhow".

    A wise man Charles Bronson. ;)
    tgRHYzv.png

    I'm sure he'd be prouder of the good movies he made rather than the bad ones.
  • Posts: 1,146
    flopping about on train rooftops?
    they're the worst-reviewed in the entire series.

    607bc1189a7a92f8f197d8f07d1ee1ff944261e9a80979141624d2cbd60d2c41.jpg


    I like the way you only mention the stupid stuff (which apparently is all Rog's is fault because I'm sure he went to Cubby and said 'I'll tell you what Cubby I reckon if we put a slide whistle over the car jump it would be awesome') from his films.

    Connery never seems to get any of your ire for DAF and despite your perception that Rog made all these calls, Sean in DAF had far more sway over the script than Rog ever did. With the deal he negotiated he could have easily said 'lose the moon buggy, the elephant playing the slots, Blofeld in drag etc or I'm not doing it.' But he just banked the cheque.

    Anyway fun though this is back on topic. As others have stated EON is first and foremost in the business of making money and Rog did that. I think the Tracy's grave scene was written with a new Bond in mind as Rog was at the end of his contract but given the dearth of candidates and the fact Rog was putting bums on seats it would have been folly to let him go.

    Its like EON not offering DC millions to continue. If you have a Bond who is bringing home the bacon you try and keep him for as long as is physically possible, although I think we'd all agree that AVTAK (and parts of OP) probably went beyond this point.

    I've been equally hard on the stuff in the Connery films that stink. Look through the threads. DAF is just….honestly what were they thinking?

    And EON was right from a financial standpoint to continue with Moore if the money was coming in, but just don't tell me these are serious spy films when they are out-and-out comedies.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2015 Posts: 15,716
    No one is saying the Moore films are the best made films of all time. But if you can't sit back in your armchair, grab a drink and some chips, switch your mind off and enjoy these outings, I really feel sorry for you. Because they sure are epic escapist fun, even if they are very silly.

    And @doubleohdad, no matter how much you hate the Moore films, they are the most vital films in the franchise. Connery started the whole damn thing, but Moore is the only reason the films continue to this day.
  • Posts: 1,146
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Connery's silly German accent in DAF is arguably goofier than anything Moore himself did.

    Dude, really? He follows that up with a fight scene that Moore could never top, and there's still four or five fights that Connery did that just embarrass Moore's attempts at 'action.'
  • Posts: 1,146
    And @doubleohdad, no matter how much you hate the Moore films, they are the most vital films in the franchise.

    That's absolutely not true. The Connery films, as well as the Craig Bonds, now are considered the staple of the franchise. Thanks goodness the days of the double-take pidgeons are over.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2015 Posts: 15,716
    And @doubleohdad, no matter how much you hate the Moore films, they are the most vital films in the franchise.

    That's absolutely not true. The Connery films, as well as the Craig Bonds, now are considered the staple of the franchise. Thanks goodness the days of the double-take pidgeons are over.

    I'll say it one last time. The only reason the franchise is still going and the only reason you got Daniel Craig as James Bond is because of Roger Moore and his films. Without Moore the franchise would have ended in the 1970's. And that is a fact. That makes the Moore films more important than Craig's because without Moore there is no Craig.
  • Posts: 1,146
    AceHole wrote: »
    HASEROT wrote: »
    for the record... i would take TSWLM or OP over Connery's last 2 Bond films any day..

    Exactly. In my eyes Roger only had 2 duffers (Gun and View), the rest ranged from merely 'ok' to excellent. Without Moore the franchise would have been dead in the water long ago.

    Um, give me one Moore movie that is excellent. Just one. Excellent is A, 90% or above, right?
  • Posts: 1,146
    bondjames wrote: »
    Well said @haserot.

    Moore kept the franchise alive during the 70's and into the 80's.

    Is that the best one can say for those films?

    They kept the franchise alive? With slide whistles and clown suits and hitting on really young women and riding around in a gondola-mobile and flopping about on train rooftops?

    Really?


    Gimme the quality stuff from the Connery fiilms, the Laz pic and the tough, fun Craig pictures any day of the week.


    Without Moore, there would be no Craig as Bond.

    Truth is truth, and I cannot argue with the above statement.
  • Posts: 1,146
    And @doubleohdad, no matter how much you hate the Moore films, they are the most vital films in the franchise.

    That's absolutely not true. The Connery films, as well as the Craig Bonds, now are considered the staple of the franchise. Thanks goodness the days of the double-take pidgeons are over.

    I'll say it one last time. The only reason the franchise is still going and the only reason you got Daniel Craig as James Bond is because of Roger Moore and his films. Without Moore the franchise would have ended in the 1970's. And that is a fact. That makes the Moore films more important than Craig's because without Moore there is no Craig.

    Yep, they kept the franchise going, and I appreciate that, they were just not very good films and should be considered comedies like the Pink Panther and Austin Powers pictures instead of spy films.

    Look at that gondola sequence again and tell me that's not completely intended as comedy.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2015 Posts: 15,716
    The Spy Who Loved Me, along GF, GE and CR are considered classics by the general audience and are the most well known Bond films outside of hardcore Bond fan circles.
  • Posts: 1,146
    TSWLM is the picture where Jaws drops a brick on his foot like Porky Pig, right?
    And where Bond holds a fish out of the Lotus and ruins an almost really cool scene?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2015 Posts: 15,716
    And GF where a guy can smash a golf ball with his hand, and has a hat that can cut the head of a statue, but when it hits a human, nothing happens. It also has a senior citizen firing a huge machine gun and not even bothering to aim, a plane that is visibly being held up by strings.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    TSWLM is in my top 5 (I have not given enough thought as to where it sits, and it varies). It sits there with TB, FRWL, CR & others that come in and out of contention from time to time, including FYEO, or TLD.

    One must admit that TSWLM is an iconic film with iconic moments and serious moments, whatever else one may think of it. Yes, it has goofy moments too, but so do a lot of other Bond films. Moore was outstanding in this film.

    OP is hands down one of the most entertaining movies in the franchise. I get a blast out of watching it every time, despite its goofiness. In fact, this discussion makes me want to watch it tonight. GE is also one of the most entertaining movies in the franchise, despite its stupidity (Boooooris anyone?) in certain places.
  • Posts: 1,146
    It also has a senior citizen firing a huge machine gun and not even bothering to aim.

    That was Alfred Hitchcock's favorite bit.

    How does that make TSWLM a better movie?
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited January 2015 Posts: 7,314
    Why not replace Roger Moore in 1974? I mean, seriously, have you seen this nudge nudge, wink wink version of James Bond? Sean Connery could eat him for breakfast and have killed 700 men before flushing him down the toilet. Rumor has it that he even has light colored hair. The horror. Well, at least it isn't blonde. The public would never stand for it. I think I even heard him say that he read a passage from Fleming that stated that Bond did not enjoy killing. How dare he pretend that Bond is not a psychopathic murdering machine with no emotions except anger. He probably wants to have a pillow fight with the main villain. Mr. Tickle Tickle.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    Fun fact: the Moore tenure has more Oscars nominations and Golden Globes nominations than any other tenure in the franchise.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I prefer TSWLM to GF. Hands down. I realize that it is blasphemy to some for me to say that, but that's been my long held view.

    TSWLM is genius.
  • Posts: 1,146
    pachazo wrote: »
    He probably wants to have a pillow fight with the main villain. Mr. Tickle Tickle.

    That sounds like Moore all right.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    @doubleohdad - Please refrain from double, triple and quadruple posting.
  • Posts: 1,146
    Fun fact: the Moore tenure has more Oscars nominations and Golden Globes nominations than any other tenure in the franchise.

    Fact: Secretaries and wives vote for oscars and golden globes. Everyone gives their votes away.
  • edited January 2015 Posts: 1,146
    @doubleohdad - Please refrain from double, triple and quadruple posting.

    With respect, I'm responding to different posts.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Perhaps, @doubleohdad, you should put the Moore films in context. After all, while the novels adhere to a loose feel for real espionage, the films are not 'spy' films, they are works of overblown nonsense and flights of fancy with an espionage aesthetic. The only Bond pic that feels genuinely viable as a look at true espionage is FRWL. Other than that, forget it. Even the Craig pics are wildly fantastic in the cold light of day.

    Once you take that into account it appears to me that Moore is at the opposite end of the spectrum from a FRWL, or an OHMSS, but that doesn't make his pictures any less viable. He's still on the spectrum given the context in which he's working. He was making pictures that were appropriate at the time. They're not to your taste, but they were never intended to be true espionage films, Bond had become it's own beast. A heightened, glamorous, fantastical world. So suggesting they're bad for not being 'spy' films is a moot point imo. It's why people refer to Bond films as 'Bond films', they're a sub genre of their own. Whether they should have been true 'spy' films is again up for debate, but the fact is 'they weren't' and for a lot of people they do what they do excellently and deliver what they promise.

  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    @doubleohdad - Please refrain from double, triple and quadruple posting.

    I'm responding to different posts.

    Which you can do in one post.
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