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Will "SPECTRE" be renamed "PHANTOM" in Germany/Austria/Switzerland?

Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
in SPECTRE Posts: 11,119
Why am I asking this? Well, very simple. In all German dubbed Bond films, that have S.P.E.C.T.R.E in it, the crime syndicate is renamed 'Verbrecherorganisation' "PHANTOM". In:
--> "James Bond Jagt Dr No" ("DOCTOR NO")
--> "Liebesgrüße Aus Moskau" ("FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE")
--> "Feuerball" ("THUNDERBALL")
--> "Man Lebt Nur Zweimal" ("YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE")
--> "Im Geheimdienst Ihrer Majestät" ("ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE")
--> "Diamantenfieber" ("DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER")
--> "Sag Niemals Nie" ("NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN")

It seems to me very likely that "SPECTRE" will be renamed "PHANTOM" no? Also "Quantum Of Solace" was renamed "Ein Quantum Trost".

Comments

  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Anyone?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Give it time.
  • Problem_EliminatorProblem_Eliminator Ojai, CA
    Posts: 613
    sounds like they will if they did it every other time before this.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Maybe. But it is an acronym that needs to be explained at some point, so maybe not.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    Maybe. But it is an acronym that needs to be explained at some point, so maybe not.

    PHANTOM was/is a German acronym.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    for espionage, terrorism, etc.?
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 6,004
    In the first movie's german translation, SPECTRE was called GOFTER ( Geheimorganisation Für Terrorismus, Erpressung und Rache ). In FRWL and TB, it was called PHANTOM (no explanation for the acronym). In YOLT, it was called SPECTRE, and stayed that way. At least, if we believe the german Wikipedia page ( de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figuren_aus_James-Bond-Filmen#Blofeld )

    In France, they kept SPECTRE, which stands for "Service Pour l'Espionnage, le Contre-espionnage, le Terrorisme, la Rétorsion (in the books, it was "la Revanche", IIRC) et l'Extorsion".
  • mirandafrostmirandafrost
    Posts: 368
    I hope not and I also don't think so. In the "later" movies it was called SPECTRE as Gerard said.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,218
    In 2015, I think German distributors ought to give their public a little bit more credit. It's not like English is to German what New Delhi dialect number 73 is to English. So I truthfully question the necessity for a "translation" of a title, especially a one-word title. Our German friends can handle SPECTRE and what it stands for. Just take a look around: I don't think our German members are anything but fluent in English. And though they may not represent the entire German market, it's definitely an indication that Germany doesn't need to have English film titles translated.
  • ggl007ggl007 www.archivo007.com Spain, España
    Posts: 2,541
    According to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECTRE in Bulgaria, Quantum was translated as... SPECTRE!

    Perhaps now they will call the new film QUANTUM! :D
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    In 2015, I think German distributors ought to give their public a little bit more credit. It's not like English is to German what New Delhi dialect number 73 is to English. So I truthfully question the necessity for a "translation" of a title, especially a one-word title. Our German friends can handle SPECTRE and what it stands for. Just take a look around: I don't think our German members are anything but fluent in English. And though they may not represent the entire German market, it's definitely an indication that Germany doesn't need to have English film titles translated.

    Very true. I've never met a German who doesn't speak almost perfect English. Most are more capable than a lot of the heathens we have over here, who use words such as 'Dis', 'Wiv' etc.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Hey, I'm not implying that Germans can't speak English huh? I grew up close to the German border. I'm fluent in both Dutch (native) and German. And I know Germans speak perfectly English......like the Dutch.

    But that's not what this discussion is about. Unlike the Dutch, Germans traditionally dub their movies and give them on many occasions a new title. It's always the case. And "Quantum Of Solace" was renamed "Een Quantum Trost".

    Taking into account the early 1960's, I therefore thought it was logical that "SPECTRE" would be renamed "PHANTOM". But I see no one can confirm this yet.
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    tumblr_nhny0xxm6H1rv0z1no1_400.jpg
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    Switzerland is not as dubbing obsessed as Germany and Austria, so it's safe to say the movie will retain its original title there.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    Switzerland is not as dubbing obsessed as Germany and Austria, so it's safe to say the movie will retain its original title there.

    "Ein Quantum Trost" also premiered in 2008 in German-speaking Switzerland and in Austria. So there's no way you can safely assume "SPECTRE" will not be renamed "PHANTOM".

    By the way....who got that above image :-P?
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,619
    Ok, but Quantum of Solace was not the name of something in the movie. I believe the title Spectre will be used nearly everywhere just like the title Skyfall was used nearly everywhere 2 years ago.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    Ok, but Quantum of Solace was not the name of something in the movie. I believe the title Spectre will be used nearly everywhere just like the title Skyfall was used nearly everywhere 2 years ago.

    We'll see. All we know for sure that in past German dubbed Bond films SPECTRE was on certain occasions renamed PHANTOM.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,218
    @Gustav_Graves, I never implied that you made a comment on the Germans and their knowledge of English. I did specifically mention the German distributors, who clearly make the choice themselves to translate English movie titles.

    They can do that with for example Russian, Chinese or Bollywood titles since I presume hardly a full percentage of the German population speaks or understands Russian, Chinese or Hindi. But English... come on, us Europeans here in the West, we practically grow up with music, movies, comics, ... in English. ;-) So again, the German movie market should by now have realised it's not a problem to release a film under its English title. Besides, SPECTRE is an acronym but SPECTRE itself is just a reasonably simple word. I dread the idea of watching the film with Craig and everybody else in the film dubbed in German. @-) There's still the option of subtitles, right? :)

    And looking at that list, when even DN and TB need another title, something is clearly wrong. So again, lest I be mistaken here, I respect the Germans more than those two or three people who make the decision to replace a perfectly simple English title with another.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    In the German NSNA Blofeld does not say "Phantom", but SPECTRE. In DN, FRWL, and TB, it is indeed "Phantom", but then, it is not part of the title. And with QOS, it is actually the German translation, although, it is not "Quantum", but "Quäntchen" (smaller quantum?), but this would sound silly as a movie title, and the other meaning of "Quantum" would get lost. Apart from that, a lot of German translations for English movie titles are cringeworthy. ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST became "Spiel mir das Lied vom Tod", a phrase not present in the original movie. THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY was changed into "Zwei glorreiche Halunken". And it usually are the distributors, who pick the German title.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    And in a lot of German movie theatres, you can get the original versions of movies, but mostly in bigger towns or cities, or towns with universities.
  • Station_ZStation_Z
    Posts: 104
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    Switzerland is not as dubbing obsessed as Germany and Austria, so it's safe to say the movie will retain its original title there.

    "Ein Quantum Trost" also premiered in 2008 in German-speaking Switzerland and in Austria. So there's no way you can safely assume "SPECTRE" will not be renamed "PHANTOM".

    By the way....who got that above image :-P?
    No, it was called "Quantum of Solace" in Switzerland. All the posters in the streets had the English title.

  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited January 2015 Posts: 5,767
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    In 2015, I think German distributors ought to give their public a little bit more credit.
    Oh they do. Liam Neeson´s Taken had the title 96 Hours in Germany. Mind you, not 96 Stunden, but 96 Hours ;-).

    DarthDimi wrote: »
    It's not like English is to German what New Delhi dialect number 73 is to English. So I truthfully question the necessity for a "translation" of a title, especially a one-word title. Our German friends can handle SPECTRE and what it stands for. Just take a look around: I don't think our German members are anything but fluent in English. And though they may not represent the entire German market, it's definitely an indication that Germany doesn't need to have English film titles translated.
    While the long-standing dubbing tradition even for cinematic screenings has spoiled a huge number of Germans into believing they won´t understand a film in the English original, the real problem I have with many German titles is that they take away the wit and poetic value of the original in many cases. I´m lucky that many of my recent favorites, like Godzilla, The Raid, and even The Wolf of Wall Street and Four Lions, retained their original titles.
    I understand that the brilliant title The Hurt Locker is probably a word construction not easily understandable for many Germans (but then does the average English or American audience immediately get its meaning?), but the German title Tödliche Entscheidung, while absolutely not beside the point as far the content is concerned, has the poetic value of a generic 80s or 90s action flic.
    And then you have Prometheus - Dunkle Zeichen (Dark/Sinister Signs): Are the English and American audiences better versed in Greek mythology than us, so that we need an additional sub-title? Hardly. And that´s not considering that the German sub-title takes away most of the wittiness of the original title.
    German distributors are obsessed with sub-titles, and the sillier the better it seems: Maze Runner - Die Auserwählten im Labyrinth. Gone Girl - Das perfekte Opfer. One or two words as a title seem to give German distributors feelings of agoraphobia or something.

    Luckily, there seems to be a fashion recently to use unaltered original titles also in Germany: Game of Thrones, Sin City 2 - A Dame to kill for, The Equalizer, Dracula Untold.
    And sometimes, they even manage the unthinkable and do a straight translation: Night at the Museum became Nachts im Museum.

    So hope glimmers.
  • ChampionAlonsoChampionAlonso
    Posts: 389
    In Spain (Europe, I don't know about Latin America) Spectre was known as "Spectra", but only for its pronuntion, so I am not sure if they will change the last letter or no.
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