James Bond on Blu-ray/4K

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  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I've got mixed feelings about restoration after restoration. On the upside it cleans up noise and grain but often colours and sounds get changed for no reason by random editors. The biggest example is the PTS of OHMSS where the sky looks completely different depending on version, and in "The Music Of James Bond" it mentions several instances where subsequent sound editors have completely changed sound effects, such as the door slam at the end of the GF PTS, and the TB board room door opening sound.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited February 2019 Posts: 40,964
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    At this rate, I'd definitely wait for the 4K if I were you, as that set will likely be even pricier than the blu-ray set was during its initial release.

    That's a good point. It's not urgent to upgrade the DVD's either, so waiting a little longer won't be an issue.

    Thanks! :-)

    You're welcome! Yes if you've managed to wait this long, another year will be nothing in the scheme of things.

    Some people actually despise when all that grain is removed and DNR'd, like with the Terminator 2 4K; they say it removes the original look of the film, which on one hand I completely understand, but at the same time, it's nice seeing a decades-old film look so sharp that it could've been filmed a year or two prior.
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 17,753
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    At this rate, I'd definitely wait for the 4K if I were you, as that set will likely be even pricier than the blu-ray set was during its initial release.

    That's a good point. It's not urgent to upgrade the DVD's either, so waiting a little longer won't be an issue.

    Thanks! :-)

    You're welcome! Yes if you've managed to wait this long, another year will be nothing in the scheme of things.

    Some people actually despise when all that grain is removed and DNR'd, like with the Terminator 2 4K; they say it removes the original look of the film, which on one hand I completely understand, but at the same time, it's nice seeing a decades-old film look so sharp that it could've been filmed a year or two prior.

    It certainly won't. And there's nothing wrong with the DVD's either. Watched FRWL yesterday, and it looked really good.

    It's definitely an interesting point what you get with restored BR transfers etc. vs what you lose. It's great to see your favourite films in the best quality possible. At the same time, it's a shame if the films looks too different from what they're supposed too. The worst thing is when they change sound effects etc. Unless there's a good reason to do so, it's better they keep stuff like that as it is.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    At this rate, I'd definitely wait for the 4K if I were you, as that set will likely be even pricier than the blu-ray set was during its initial release.

    That's a good point. It's not urgent to upgrade the DVD's either, so waiting a little longer won't be an issue.

    Thanks! :-)

    You're welcome! Yes if you've managed to wait this long, another year will be nothing in the scheme of things.

    Some people actually despise when all that grain is removed and DNR'd, like with the Terminator 2 4K; they say it removes the original look of the film, which on one hand I completely understand, but at the same time, it's nice seeing a decades-old film look so sharp that it could've been filmed a year or two prior.

    It certainly won't. And there's nothing wrong with the DVD's either. Watched FRWL yesterday, and it looked really good.

    It's definitely an interesting point what you get with restored BR transfers etc. vs what you lose. It's great to see your favourite films in the best quality possible. At the same time, it's a shame if the films looks too different from what they're supposed too. The worst thing is when they change sound effects etc. Unless there's a good reason to do so, it's better they keep stuff like that as it is.
    I was totally in love with my SE DVD Bond Collection, until I bought the BR Collection, which was like watching totally new films. And I mean that in a completely positive way. I noticed so many Details watching the BR that simply don´t seem to be there on the DVDs. And most of those Details are in the set design. T2 could be an entirely different Story, the original film stock was different from especially the 60s Bond films, and if you can see Makeup effects too clearly, that can be a Problem. I noticed in some Moore films that on BR facial Makeup is obvious here and there. As for grain, I think the biggest uproar happened when Predator was released on BR. The original film stock they used for Shooting was rather cheap and had a lot of grain per se. The BR restoration took away grain, with the result that in many Frames people´s faces look like Fotoshopped. I think T2 or Bond doesn´t suffer too much from such Problems. I heard that on the first Terminator in the BR Version you can see through the sunglasses onto Arnold´s real eye, which in the film is supposed to be the makeshift-operated Cyborg eye. Of Course such a fyux pas could surely be avoided with more care during the restoration and is not a General Problem of the BR Format.

  • Posts: 17,753
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    At this rate, I'd definitely wait for the 4K if I were you, as that set will likely be even pricier than the blu-ray set was during its initial release.

    That's a good point. It's not urgent to upgrade the DVD's either, so waiting a little longer won't be an issue.

    Thanks! :-)

    You're welcome! Yes if you've managed to wait this long, another year will be nothing in the scheme of things.

    Some people actually despise when all that grain is removed and DNR'd, like with the Terminator 2 4K; they say it removes the original look of the film, which on one hand I completely understand, but at the same time, it's nice seeing a decades-old film look so sharp that it could've been filmed a year or two prior.

    It certainly won't. And there's nothing wrong with the DVD's either. Watched FRWL yesterday, and it looked really good.

    It's definitely an interesting point what you get with restored BR transfers etc. vs what you lose. It's great to see your favourite films in the best quality possible. At the same time, it's a shame if the films looks too different from what they're supposed too. The worst thing is when they change sound effects etc. Unless there's a good reason to do so, it's better they keep stuff like that as it is.
    I was totally in love with my SE DVD Bond Collection, until I bought the BR Collection, which was like watching totally new films. And I mean that in a completely positive way. I noticed so many Details watching the BR that simply don´t seem to be there on the DVDs. And most of those Details are in the set design. T2 could be an entirely different Story, the original film stock was different from especially the 60s Bond films, and if you can see Makeup effects too clearly, that can be a Problem. I noticed in some Moore films that on BR facial Makeup is obvious here and there. As for grain, I think the biggest uproar happened when Predator was released on BR. The original film stock they used for Shooting was rather cheap and had a lot of grain per se. The BR restoration took away grain, with the result that in many Frames people´s faces look like Fotoshopped. I think T2 or Bond doesn´t suffer too much from such Problems. I heard that on the first Terminator in the BR Version you can see through the sunglasses onto Arnold´s real eye, which in the film is supposed to be the makeshift-operated Cyborg eye. Of Course such a fyux pas could surely be avoided with more care during the restoration and is not a General Problem of the BR Format.

    That's what I'm looking forward to most of all when upgrading my DVD collection. With the potential of a new (and one would guess) even more improved collection coming soon, I'll probably just wait. As I mentioned in my initial post though, I don't have room for big collection box sets; hopefully the upcoming set won't be as large as the Ultimate DVD Collector's Set.

    It would be interesting to get a few of the films on digital download in the meantime, to see if that improves on the DVD collection I have. Especially titles like OHMSS, TB and FRWL. Don't know if it's worth the money though.
  • Posts: 632
    That Predator blu-ray is the most egregious one I own in terms of transfers. Apparently, they did a better job on the 4K, but haven't released that new remaster on blu. The good thing about the Bond ones, as previously stated, is all the new fine details that can be observed, like the colors of Connery's NATO strap on his Rolex or the nuances of his knitted ties!
  • Posts: 17,753
    JET007 wrote: »
    That Predator blu-ray is the most egregious one I own in terms of transfers. Apparently, they did a better job on the 4K, but haven't released that new remaster on blu. The good thing about the Bond ones, as previously stated, is all the new fine details that can be observed, like the colors of Connery's NATO strap on his Rolex or the nuances of his knitted ties!

    Now that would be great to see!
  • Posts: 1,165
    Rewatching Dr No on blu ray and only just noticed how strange Professor Dent’s audio is before he’s killed by Bond. He sounds like his lines were recorded in a bathroom. Anyone ever notice this before?
  • Posts: 17,753
    TR007 wrote: »
    Rewatching Dr No on blu ray and only just noticed how strange Professor Dent’s audio is before he’s killed by Bond. He sounds like his lines were recorded in a bathroom. Anyone ever notice this before?

    Don't know about the BR edition, but his voice seems perfectly alright on DVD. Watched the film only this afternoon.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited February 2019 Posts: 40,964
    TR007 wrote: »
    Rewatching Dr No on blu ray and only just noticed how strange Professor Dent’s audio is before he’s killed by Bond. He sounds like his lines were recorded in a bathroom. Anyone ever notice this before?

    Don't know about the BR edition, but his voice seems perfectly alright on DVD. Watched the film only this afternoon.

    Some of his lines have always sounded obviously dubbed later in post to me; one line sounds OK, then the next is off, an odd pitch that doesn't sound like it was recorded in the room. I believe you hear this elsewhere, perhaps in OHMSS in a scene between Blofeld and Tracy? Can't recall exactly.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Yes, indeed. Blofeld and Bond. "Merry Christmas, 007."
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    TR007 wrote: »
    Rewatching Dr No on blu ray and only just noticed how strange Professor Dent’s audio is before he’s killed by Bond. He sounds like his lines were recorded in a bathroom. Anyone ever notice this before?

    Noticed that on my blu-ray as well. It sounds normal on the DVD.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited February 2019 Posts: 2,541
    Yes when professor dent said- " you are up against more than you know".
  • Posts: 5,767
    I must say I´m not bothered so far by any dubbing changes on the Bond BRs.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    However, when you switch it to the original mono or stereo or whatever it was, then it's fine.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,024
    I just checked my BD and you are right. It's obviously a somewhat failed attempt at remixing it (no new dub) to 5.1 sound. The effect you mentioned is only noticeable while the camera is a few metres away from Dent, so they seem to have intended to add a bit of reverberation as one might expect from farther away. After the next cut which goes to a close-up of Dent it sounds quite normal. In the original mono mix this doesn't happen, of course, but then one's expensive multi-channel Dolby and DTS hifi receiver and speakers don't have anything to do.
  • Posts: 1,165
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I just checked my BD and you are right. It's obviously a somewhat failed attempt at remixing it (no new dub) to 5.1 sound. The effect you mentioned is only noticeable while the camera is a few metres away from Dent, so they seem to have intended to add a bit of reverberation as one might expect from farther away. After the next cut which goes to a close-up of Dent it sounds quite normal. In the original mono mix this doesn't happen, of course, but then one's expensive multi-channel Dolby and DTS hifi receiver and speakers don't have anything to do.

    Thank you. I’m glad to hear I’m not going crazy. Such an odd effect, I’m so surprised it passed QC. Even more surprised I only noticed it last night.

  • Posts: 5,767
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I just checked my BD and you are right. It's obviously a somewhat failed attempt at remixing it (no new dub) to 5.1 sound. The effect you mentioned is only noticeable while the camera is a few metres away from Dent, so they seem to have intended to add a bit of reverberation as one might expect from farther away. After the next cut which goes to a close-up of Dent it sounds quite normal. In the original mono mix this doesn't happen, of course, but then one's expensive multi-channel Dolby and DTS hifi receiver and speakers don't have anything to do.
    That´s why I love my old Stereo tv :-).

  • Posts: 17,753
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    Rewatching Dr No on blu ray and only just noticed how strange Professor Dent’s audio is before he’s killed by Bond. He sounds like his lines were recorded in a bathroom. Anyone ever notice this before?

    Don't know about the BR edition, but his voice seems perfectly alright on DVD. Watched the film only this afternoon.

    Some of his lines have always sounded obviously dubbed later in post to me; one line sounds OK, then the next is off, an odd pitch that doesn't sound like it was recorded in the room. I believe you hear this elsewhere, perhaps in OHMSS in a scene between Blofeld and Tracy? Can't recall exactly.

    Yes, there's a few scenes that sounds like they've been edited in post. Wasn't there one with Bernard Lee's M too? Can't remember which film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    Rewatching Dr No on blu ray and only just noticed how strange Professor Dent’s audio is before he’s killed by Bond. He sounds like his lines were recorded in a bathroom. Anyone ever notice this before?

    Don't know about the BR edition, but his voice seems perfectly alright on DVD. Watched the film only this afternoon.

    Some of his lines have always sounded obviously dubbed later in post to me; one line sounds OK, then the next is off, an odd pitch that doesn't sound like it was recorded in the room. I believe you hear this elsewhere, perhaps in OHMSS in a scene between Blofeld and Tracy? Can't recall exactly.

    Yes, there's a few scenes that sounds like they've been edited in post. Wasn't there one with Bernard Lee's M too? Can't remember which film.

    I can't recall off the top of my head, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was.
  • edited February 2019 Posts: 17,753
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    Rewatching Dr No on blu ray and only just noticed how strange Professor Dent’s audio is before he’s killed by Bond. He sounds like his lines were recorded in a bathroom. Anyone ever notice this before?

    Don't know about the BR edition, but his voice seems perfectly alright on DVD. Watched the film only this afternoon.

    Some of his lines have always sounded obviously dubbed later in post to me; one line sounds OK, then the next is off, an odd pitch that doesn't sound like it was recorded in the room. I believe you hear this elsewhere, perhaps in OHMSS in a scene between Blofeld and Tracy? Can't recall exactly.

    Yes, there's a few scenes that sounds like they've been edited in post. Wasn't there one with Bernard Lee's M too? Can't remember which film.

    I can't recall off the top of my head, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was.

    I think there's a line where he mentions MI6, but it doesn't sound like he says it – or something. Might remember wrong about this one.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,024
    I think it was a case of him being re-dubbed to saying "MI 7" while his lips clearly read "MI 6" in Dr. No - and AFAIK that version is even on some featurette. Or something like that, haven't really confirmed this.
  • Posts: 17,753
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    I think it was a case of him being re-dubbed to saying "MI 7" while his lips clearly read "MI 6" in Dr. No - and AFAIK that version is even on some featurette. Or something like that, haven't really confirmed this.

    Yes, that's the one!
  • Posts: 113
    Yes! It's in the Boothroyd on guns featurette IIRC. I sat bolt upright the first time I heard M properly saying MI6 convinced I was going nuts!

    I absolutely despise the 5.1 remixes for the series. They are downright awful and even Norman Wanstall himself bemoaned what they did to Goldfinger. This is in regard primarily to the early mono films which are limiting in what you can do in a remix. 9Thus they should never be done!) The later films TSWLM-LTK all had stereo surround releases and the 5.1 tracks are all primarily ones done by MGM in the tail end of the LD era and carried over ever since. They largely take the 4 track Dolby surround mix and put it in a discrete 5.1 container. That said I do vastly prefer the balance of the original surround tracks.
    The irony is that there are several films reputed to have had limited magnetic stereo prints or even 70mm blowups made and no one has ever done any official detective work to find vault elements for home releases.

    The only-and I mean ONLY-good thing about the remixes is that for LALD's title song, they reputedly tried to make it sound like the very rare Quadrophonic mix of the song. The score album was apparently mixed in Quad then only released on Quad 8 track tape.

    Thunderball is the lone outcast in that the original mono mix was supplanted by the 30th anniversary mix for the Laserdisc boxset which was conformed into stereo surround at MGM's behest. It's a mono track with stereo score and not really authentic. Plus it birthed the mix with all of the alternate dialogue and music cues. I'm still uncertain if it's a matter of there being alternate US and UK audio mixes from 1965 or perhaps an unused mix that got pulled by mistake.

    TSWLM was a mono release with a handful of stereo surround prints. It wasn't until the 1989 letterbox Laserdisc that home audiences could hear the stereo surround mix which has been carried over ever since. Now it is the mono that is lost.


    The Brosnan era films sound perfectly fine on all releases. I'd argue the DTS Laserdiscs for GE and TND are slightly better than the BD audio, and the early GE releases on LD and DVD have the bass heavy Dolby mix. DAD had a 6.1 channel mix on the first DVD due to it being made in the era of matrixed rear surround audio in theaters, but all releases can be properly decoded from the 5.1 tracks due to the design of the mix.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited March 2019 Posts: 40,964
    Take it with a big grain of salt, but a Canadian retailer has dated the Daniel Craig Collection in 4K for an October 19th, 2019 release at $79.99:

    https://dealsareus.ca/the-prodigy-blu-ray-copy

    Pretty bummed that if it pans out, it's only the Craig era. Having said that, if it does, I'm sure the other eras will be right behind it. I'll just wait for the full 4K set (only want CR and QoS, can't justify the price for only two movies).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    I saw you share those shots over Facebook the other day - if streaming the film in 4K looks that much more enhanced, I can't wait to see what the physical 4K editions look like.
  • NS_writingsNS_writings Buenos Aires
    Posts: 544
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I saw you share those shots over Facebook the other day - if streaming the film in 4K looks that much more enhanced, I can't wait to see what the physical 4K editions look like.

    Indeed. I can't play 4K vids because my PC is rather slow and my screen is 1080p, but after seeing the pics they've sent me I'm happy the infamous DNR is gone an that the skin tones look more natural instead of that pink-greyish look.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,964
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I saw you share those shots over Facebook the other day - if streaming the film in 4K looks that much more enhanced, I can't wait to see what the physical 4K editions look like.

    Indeed. I can't play 4K vids because my PC is rather slow and my screen is 1080p, but after seeing the pics they've sent me I'm happy the infamous DNR is gone an that the skin tones look more natural instead of that pink-greyish look.

    That was the first thing I noticed, too: no DNR, image looked a lot sharper and clearer, and the color tones looked much more natural to me. I originally estimated the films would hit physical 4K during the release of Bond 25 or leading right up to it, so this retailer rumor falls right in line with it. I do hope that's the case, I'm in the midst of a Bondathon now but would love another reason to go through them all once more in the near future, this time in 4K. Bring it on.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Re physical editions Vs Streaming, when it come to 4k there is a marked difference. I can't speak for The Bond films until they are released, but I have a handful of 4k blu rays and they all look much better than anything you can stream.on Netflix/Amazon/Apple.

    I'm sure that Bond releases will be no exception.
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