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James Bond on Blu-ray/4K

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Those are quite the differences.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    No problem @ToTheRight ! I’ve mentioned it before, but if anyone wants more comparisons I’m happy to oblige, because I’m discovering these as much as anyone else and it’s very interesting to see the differences across all formats and speculate. I too assumed the 2000 DVD was the truest to the theatrical than the UE, but then getting earlier video formats really threw me back and made me reconsider.

    As for the widescreen bits at the beginning: It was common among Fox tapes to present the credits in widescreen before hard cutting to P&S. I think they did that with the original Star Wars VHS, where after the opening crawl and the star destroyer pass it reverts to P&S with the blockade runner coming at the screen. However, TESB and ROTJ start with the crawl squeezed instead of widescreen, which was also a common practice on P&S.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,169
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    No problem @ToTheRight ! I’ve mentioned it before, but if anyone wants more comparisons I’m happy to oblige, because I’m discovering these as much as anyone else and it’s very interesting to see the differences across all formats and speculate. I too assumed the 2000 DVD was the truest to the theatrical than the UE, but then getting earlier video formats really threw me back and made me reconsider.

    As for the widescreen bits at the beginning: It was common among Fox tapes to present the credits in widescreen before hard cutting to P&S. I think they did that with the original Star Wars VHS, where after the opening crawl and the star destroyer pass it reverts to P&S with the blockade runner coming at the screen. However, TESB and ROTJ start with the crawl squeezed instead of widescreen, which was also a common practice on P&S.

    This reminds me of a discussion on one of the Blu-ray review forums regarding the Coppola DRACULA. Fans were disappointed when the 2007 Blu-ray release was color timed radically different from the previous DVD and Laser-disc. In fact the darker contrast of the Blu-ray was much truer to the cinematic prints.
    Back in the '90's new movies released on VHS were often timed much brighter than the release prints. I'd say GE received that treatment as well.

    I'm very fascinated by the different video formats and transfers of the Bond films in comparison to the original release prints. Back in the days of VHS I'd collect the different editions and whenever a Bond film played at a local cinema, I'd immediately pop in those tapes and compare. I'd also adjust the settings on my television to match the film.

    There was an odd THUNDERBALL VHS release that was missing the "Harry Saltzman and Albert R Broccoli present Sean Connery" credit. The sequence played without the lettering until the film's title appeared. That was part of the 1993/93 remastered edition series.

    I should track down the CBS/Fox LTK and compare. I distinctly recall the film looking much more dirty in the cinema than the Blu-ray. The titles were timed differently as well. That tape omits the LARK label as Bond is planting the explosive under Sanchez's window. I tend to think MGM/UA Home Video used the same transfer for their 1995 pan and scan release. They looked quite close.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I have the FOX tape of LTK, and I believe the titles were altered to accommodate for P&S, which was the same treatment GE, TND, TWINE, DAD, and CR got for their P&S 4:3 releases.

    For some reason I distinctly remember TLD getting the same treatment with the titles rearranged, but have only seen it on TBS airings. I could never find a VHS copy that did that, as they all had the titles preserved in widescreen for DN-TLD for later editions.

    I have the first LD copy of FYEO by FOX, and they simply squeezed the titles which made the images distorted, making the women look taller and thinner.

    Only other LDs I have are the Criterion Collections of DN, FRWL, and GF (with the EON banned commentaries), the MGM TB and TLD. Might not collect more though.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,169
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I have the FOX tape of LTK, and I believe the titles were altered to accommodate for P&S, which was the same treatment GE, TND, TWINE, DAD, and CR got for their P&S 4:3 releases.

    For some reason I distinctly remember TLD getting the same treatment with the titles rearranged, but have only seen it on TBS airings. I could never find a VHS copy that did that, as they all had the titles preserved in widescreen for DN-TLD for later editions.

    I have the first LD copy of FYEO by FOX, and they simply squeezed the titles which made the images distorted, making the women look taller and thinner.

    Only other LDs I have are the Criterion Collections of DN, FRWL, and GF (with the EON banned commentaries), the MGM TB and TLD. Might not collect more though.


    I'm pretty sure the 1992 remastered edition VHS for TLD had pan and scan titles.
    The CBS/Fox title sequences for TSWLM and AVTAK were widescreen with blue bars instead of black.
    I remember the squeezed version of the FYEO titles. The Locque death scene looks different in the various transfers. The CBS/Fox version had a much brighter, early morning look whereas the Blu-ray had a darker blue hue. Wish I could recall what that scene looked like in the cinema.
    The Nile river scene in SPY was color timed blue for the 1992 VHS tape. Other transfers had a golden sunset. That's one film I've caught in the cinema quite a few time now. I think the Blu-ray version might be closer to the theatrical prints than how it was remastered by Lowry for the UE DVD.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Regarding the LTK VHS by FOX, I think the only difference is that the video quality is much softer, perhaps subpar for VHS especially when compared to the earlier TLD VHS. Also the cutting of the R-rated clips was much more messily abrupt and off putting, whereas the LTK 1999 DVD handled the cuts more seamlessly.

    But yeah, the blu-ray remaster for TSWLM is not only truer to the theatrical presentation but it especially looks much more authentically 70s with the use of diffusion filter and creamy tones. The artificial sharpening and coloring of the UE DVD made it look more dated than it was, as if it came off of a 1950s print with its harsh look.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,169
    I never noticed the differences on the cut scenes. Very interesting.

    Some of the Blu-rays look great. Others I think are lacking. I saw a 35mm print of YOLT screened a few years ago and the colors were much closer to the CBS/Fox version and the MGM/UA Home Video "Connery Classics" tape from 1988.

    The Blu-ray on that film looks a bit muted.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Kinda wish I kept my UE DVD copies now for comparison sake, but I remember the YOLT transfer for that looking worse.

    On the blu-ray, in the first clip of Bond driving with Aki you can see the black levels on the foreground not matching correctly with the composited background. It really bugged me when watching it for the first time because it only made the obvious bluescreen more obvious. Only way to fix that is lower the black levels on your TV setting, but that would cause crushing on anything else you watched. Also, the black levels overall on the film seem too high to the point the black bars look darker than the black area on the “Welcome to Tokyo” shot.

    So of course that was the first thing I looked at on the 4K copy, and thankfully the black levels look much more natural, and the issue I mentioned on the bluescreen nighttime drive is no longer there.

    I’ll have to compare the color timing between the blu-ray and 4K next.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I have the FOX tape of LTK, and I believe the titles were altered to accommodate for P&S, which was the same treatment GE, TND, TWINE, DAD, and CR got for their P&S 4:3 releases.

    For some reason I distinctly remember TLD getting the same treatment with the titles rearranged, but have only seen it on TBS airings. I could never find a VHS copy that did that, as they all had the titles preserved in widescreen for DN-TLD for later editions.

    I have the first LD copy of FYEO by FOX, and they simply squeezed the titles which made the images distorted, making the women look taller and thinner.

    Only other LDs I have are the Criterion Collections of DN, FRWL, and GF (with the EON banned commentaries), the MGM TB and TLD. Might not collect more though.
    I never heard of any Eon banned commentaries. Is there anything noteworthy on them?

  • GertGettlerGertGettler Laptop Barcelona
    edited September 2019 Posts: 431
    By the way, it's quite funny really that the upcoming 4K Ultra-HD BluRay's from Daniel Craig's last four Bond-films will come out later this year under the 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment banner. That basically means Disney is doing it :-O :-O

    Anyway, I think within the next three weeks you should be able to pre-order the 4K Ultra-HD Craig Collection on Amazon:

    GPYBQtm.jpg
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    boldfinger wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I have the FOX tape of LTK, and I believe the titles were altered to accommodate for P&S, which was the same treatment GE, TND, TWINE, DAD, and CR got for their P&S 4:3 releases.

    For some reason I distinctly remember TLD getting the same treatment with the titles rearranged, but have only seen it on TBS airings. I could never find a VHS copy that did that, as they all had the titles preserved in widescreen for DN-TLD for later editions.

    I have the first LD copy of FYEO by FOX, and they simply squeezed the titles which made the images distorted, making the women look taller and thinner.

    Only other LDs I have are the Criterion Collections of DN, FRWL, and GF (with the EON banned commentaries), the MGM TB and TLD. Might not collect more though.
    I never heard of any Eon banned commentaries. Is there anything noteworthy on them?

    It's been awhile since I've listened to them, but it contains remarks by filmmakers regarding certain persons. I believe at one point it's Peter Hunt who once refers to Fleming as being a snob.

    EDIT: Here's a link to Spy Command laying out some of the stuff said that Cubby may have not been too happy about being put out there. It's also worth looking into the comments on that page as they're written by notable Bondphiles like John Cork. They're very interesting in that they comment on how EON was extremely protective more so during the late 80s/early 90s.

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2012/01/03/the-banned-007-commentaries-what-was-the-fuss/

    Also you can download the commentary mp3 files here: http://www.the007dossier.com/post/2011/04/21/Banned-James-Bond-Commentaries
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Now onto YOLT. For the 4K there's certainly a subtle tweak in the color timing from the blu-ray (most apparent with the guard in red), but even more so for the bluescreen composition shots like with the astronaut in space and Bond & Aki driving through Tokyo. I had to really restrain myself on this one because there's so many beautiful shots throughout the film and I was taking way too many screencaps, so this is my "condensed" version. Unfortunately I do not have earlier video editions of YOLT before the 2000 MGM DVD, so this isn't quite a complete picture like with TLD. I would have assumed the SE DVD is truer to the colors of the theatrical prints, but since looking at the TLD screencaps I've started to become somewhat suspicious of those SE DVDs. Soon I'll have to get the LD copy to add to this batch of screencaps. For now, it's just the SE DVD, blu-ray, and iTunes 4K.


    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    edited November 2019 Posts: 16,169
    Comparing those shots to the 35mm print I saw awhile back there is no question the 2000 SE DVD looked closer to the theatrical version. The flesh tones are much closer to the film print. The later versions are too pinkish.
    Generally speaking the color temperature on YOLT and some of the other Bonds are far more warm in the cinematic prints. The YOLT Blu-ray gives it a much cooler palette.
    In addition, the PTS outer space effects are more believable in the film print, probably due to the contrast. Reminds me of the 35mm prints of SUPERMAN in which the effects are better obscured than, say the VHS or DVD releases. No wires in sight on film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    The wires in the Superman films were usually airbrushed out on cinematic prints, but the people who did the DVDs masters forgot to do that work when creating new transfers, so that’s why they appear visible on them.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,169
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The wires in the Superman films were usually airbrushed out on cinematic prints, but the people who did the DVDs masters forgot to do that work when creating new transfers, so that’s why they appear visible on them.

    That makes sense. In certain flying shots Reeve wore a turquoise blue costume since for the blue screen effects. I remember the initial DVD color corrected those shots to the traditional blue uniform. In the cinema, the greenish hue wasn't quite so noticeable regardless. SUPERMAN IV on the other hand is a different story.

    One of the first things I look for when viewing a Bond on film is how the gunbarrel looks. The shades of blood vary on the DVD and Blu-rays. IMO, none quite get the red exact.
    It's getting better, though.

    On film, Binder's blood looked rich and thick. Also the hue is uniform from film to film. Kind of difficult to describe, but with even the scratchiest, crummiest print of, say TB, the gunbarrel blood still looks good.


    With the exception of GE, the newer films do tend to get the look right when released on DVD or Blu-ray. The blood in GE was much darker on 35mm than any VHS, DVD or Blu-ray release I've seen.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Didn’t Binder always tinker with his gun barrels subtly? Like it’ll appear purely black and white in AVTAK, and then for TLD he gives it a hint of blue to give it more of an impression of steel. I wish he had retained the shimmering effect he gave for OHMSS and DAF.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    edited September 2019 Posts: 16,169
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Didn’t Binder always tinker with his gun barrels subtly? Like it’ll appear purely black and white in AVTAK, and then for TLD he gives it a hint of blue to give it more of an impression of steel. I wish he had retained the shimmering effect he gave for OHMSS and DAF.

    He tweaked the image a bit to suit each film. I especially love OHMSS and DAF. Some transfers of DAF give the gunbarrel a very bluish tint. I actually think the Blu-ray does justice to the image from my memory.

    Anytime I've seen these films on the big screen, the blood looks more or less the same. When it encompasses the screen for those few seconds it's very impressive. It's a prefect shade of red: not too bright, not too bleeding. No hint of orange, maroon or any other color.
    I saw a SPY and MR double feature a few years ago and the gunbarrel looked great on both films. Neither Blu-rays got the blood looking quite right to me.
    Oddly, I think the hue of the SP gunbarrel blood looks a bit closer to the way Binder's blood looked on film, except just a tad more enhanced and thicker.
  • cooperman2cooperman2 Uk
    Posts: 380
    Slightly off topic but can anyone answer a question for me. An Apple 4k box will cost me around £170 and i know that you can then rent or buy 4k movies from the store. However what i want to know is do i have to pay any form of subscription fee to Apple as well.
  • GenoGeno
    Posts: 54
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    Slightly off topic but can anyone answer a question for me. An Apple 4k box will cost me around £170 and i know that you can then rent or buy 4k movies from the store. However what i want to know is do i have to pay any form of subscription fee to Apple as well.

    Apple TV user here, and no subscription fee is needed. I’ve been buying the Bond movies gradually on iTunes (since they rarely go on sale). It’s a terrific device and the quality of streaming 4K movies from the iTunes store is excellent. There are rumors of a new Apple TV being announced during Apple’s event in the next couple days, so I’d hold out until then just in case they’re about to launch a new unit.
  • cooperman2cooperman2 Uk
    Posts: 380
    Thanks @Geno i think thats going to be my way into 4K for now
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited September 2019 Posts: 8,188
    Though I bought all the Bonds on 4K iTunes, I know I’m still gonna get the discs depending on whether they have the original audio mixes, especially if they are lossless. If not, I’ll skip out the discs entirely.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Now onto YOLT. For the 4K there's certainly a subtle tweak in the color timing from the blu-ray (most apparent with the guard in red), but even more so for the bluescreen composition shots like with the astronaut in space and Bond & Aki driving through Tokyo. I had to really restrain myself on this one because there's so many beautiful shots throughout the film and I was taking way too many screencaps, so this is my "condensed" version. Unfortunately I do not have earlier video editions of YOLT before the 2000 MGM DVD, so this isn't quite a complete picture like with TLD. I would have assumed the SE DVD is truer to the colors of the theatrical prints, but since looking at the TLD screencaps I've started to become somewhat suspicious of those SE DVDs. Soon I'll have to get the LD copy to add to this batch of screencaps. For now, it's just the SE DVD, blu-ray, and iTunes 4K.


    MGM DVD 2000
    01yolt10.png


    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    MGM DVD 2000
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    FOX BD 2012
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    iTunes 4K 2017
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    That is very enlightening. Makes me want to compare my old DVD with the BR, to see if there´s really that much difference in the colours.
    In any case, YOLT doesn´t seem to be that film that invites me to go for 4K.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited September 2019 Posts: 8,188
    I just ordered a LaserDisc of YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE so I'll soon be adding screencaps from that to compare them to the DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K counterparts, to get a more complete picture. Color-wise, it's supposed to be the most accurate to the theatrical presentation when it comes to all video formats.

    But before I get to that, I'm gonna be posting screencaps from GOLDFINGER very soon. Sources will be: The 1991 Criterion LaserDisc, the 1999 SE DVD, the 2006 UE DVD, the 2008 Blu-ray, and of course the 2017 iTunes 4K digital.

    You could say I'll be achieving a miracle in a new field of human endeavor!
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    You’ll be achieving a miracle in a new field of human endeavor!
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    I could say it too:
    You´ll be achieving a miracle in a new field of human endeavor, @MakeshiftPython!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited September 2019 Posts: 25,148
    Out of the early films YOLT is not the best example to make comparisons with the different formats. YOLT is not particularly well shot in comparison to DN and FRWL, those two films are outstanding up scaled to 4K
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I may not particularly love the film, but SF is going to look beyond ridiculous in 4K. I can't wait to see what they've managed with it.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,757
    For those of you that have bought the Bond films through iTunes; how would you rank the digital transfers from 1-10? Purchased OHMSS on iTunes a while ago to watch on my laptop, and that film looked really nice – but I have no idea if the others are just as good.

    ______
    @MakeshiftPython how did you take those iTunes screenshots? I've tried taking screenshots from iTunes on my Macbook, but all I get are these gray squares.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Going all out for this one... GOLDFINGER, caps: 1991 Criterion CAV, 1999 SE DVD, 2006 UE DVD, 2008 BD, and 2017 iTunes 4K.

    Mankind has achieved miracles in every field of human endeavor, EXCEPT CAPS!!!


    It looks to me for the SE DVD (based off a new print that was made for the 30th anniversary, which was first made available on LaserDisc) that MGM cranked up the colors a bit, almost to give the film a more golden sheen to it (for this flick? Go figure!). For the UE Lowry then reverts the colors back to a more naturalistic appearance, though a bit on the dull side. 4K looks much more vibrant, no longer having the reddish skin tones of the BD.

    And seriously, thank goodness we're at a time seeing proper aspect ratios, after the shifting seen in 90s home media.



    1991 Criterion LD
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    1999 SE DVD
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    2006 UE DVD
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    2008 FOX BD
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    2017 iTunes 4K
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    1991 Criterion LD
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    1999 SE DVD
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    2006 UE DVD
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    2008 FOX BD
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    2017 iTunes 4K
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    1991 Criterion LD
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    1999 SE DVD
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    2006 UE DVD
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    2008 FOX BD
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    2017 iTunes 4K
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    1991 Criterion BD
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    1999 SE DVD
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    2006 UE DVD
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    2008 FOX BD
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    2017 iTunes 4K
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    1991 Criterion LD
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    1999 SE DVD
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    2006 UE DVD
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    2008 FOX BD
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    2017 iTunes 4K
    05GF4K.png




    1991 Criterion LD
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    1999 SE DVD
    06GFSEDVD.jpg

    2006 UE DVD
    06GFUEDVD.jpg

    2008 FOX BD
    06GFBD.jpg

    2017 iTunes 4K
    06GF4K.png


  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Torgeirtrap wrote: »
    For those of you that have bought the Bond films through iTunes; how would you rank the digital transfers from 1-10? Purchased OHMSS on iTunes a while ago to watch on my laptop, and that film looked really nice – but I have no idea if the others are just as good.

    ______
    @MakeshiftPython how did you take those iTunes screenshots? I've tried taking screenshots from iTunes on my Macbook, but all I get are these gray squares.

    iTunes has a DMR restriction that won't let you take screencaps downloaded videos. However, they don't restrict you from taking screencaps while streaming videos, so that's how I was able to capture the images.
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