James Bond on Blu-ray/4K

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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,773
    I can't suggest the specs, but the HDMI cable can be the limiting factor for DVD and Blu-ray players and is worth a closer look when upgrading equipment.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Thanks guys, I’m thinking it might be the TV as I already have a high-speed HDMI. Seems like a massive oversight on Samsung’s part. Gonna try to troubleshoot some more but either way it’s pretty bothersome as I have no way of enjoying movies in true 4K HDR despite having a relatively pricey setup.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2021 Posts: 4,043
    I've just watched Casino, oh my god reference quality, Robert Richardson's cinematography pops more than anytime since I saw it at the cinema.

    I do still think Goodfellas is superior but the margin is slim and this is still another masterpiece from Marty & Bob.

    The 4K UHD makes this film look the best it has ever looked. I would recommend this release without reservation.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,963
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I've just watched Casino, oh my god reference quality, Robert Richardson's cinematography pops more than anytime since I saw it at the cinema.

    I do still think Goodfellas is superior but the margin is slim and this is still another masterpiece from Marty & Bob.

    The 4K UHD makes this film look the best it has ever looked. I would recommend this release without reservation.

    I was totally floored by the 4K, such an epic experience and the quality they've reached after all these years is really something special. What a fantastic film.
  • edited January 2021 Posts: 2,436
    Just bought a new Panasonic 4k upscaling blu-ray player. When the lamp goes on my current projector I may look into getting a 4k one - undecided as yet as projectors can't do HDR as well as TVs. Would be able to play 4K UHD Blu-rays on my Xbox One. If I did I would probably just get a few and ones that are natively 4K and just upscale 1080 blu rays for the rest.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I find my Blu-ray's upscale nicely on my 4K Player, I won't be upgrading everything to 4K UH Blu-ray.

    Though certain films are a definite, the Indiana Jones & Godfather sets when they are released (although KOTCS will gather a lot of dust) I have the BTTF & Hitchcock ones earmarked for purchase within the year.

    I have Alien 4K (reference, one of the best examples of the format so far) and Aliens & Alien 3 look very respectable up scaled from the original Alien Anthology Blu-ray set.

    I do wonder though as the industry still does seem not to want to stick DVD in the bin (they really should).

    It's ridiculous that here that stuff is only getting released on DVD, I'd snap their hand off for Steve McQueen's Small Axe film series on Blu-ray but the BBC have only chosen to release it on DVD here.

    I think 4K will likely stay a niche product and likely unfortunately disappear if they continue to champion a format that is over 20 years old when a much better one came about less than a decade later.

    I mean all you need to do is stop making the players, everyone has to then buy Blu-ray players, DVD upscale nicely on there but now streaming has become more prevalent they missed that one I'm afraid, why when they were so keen to kill off vinyl and then VHS, does bloody DVD's get a free pass??

    Although I think us physical buyers get the last laugh when you don't end up owning anything when you download as where you supposedly bought it from lose the rights and also so streamers platforms like Netflix & Amazon Prime, films just disappear from their offerings.

    I know at least when I want to watch a favourite, I just go to the shelf and pop in my player.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,181
    Not everyone is a video/audiophile. DVDs sell like crazy to this day because for most people DVD quality simply is good enough. It hasn't died like VHS did because the sales are still strong, and as long as they continue to sell they'll keep manufacturing DVDs.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited January 2021 Posts: 40,963
    We're also at the point now that I think the quality is only going to get so good that it justifies a full home theater upgrade. I cherish my setup and physical film collection but I don't see me diving headfirst on day one into 8K or 16K or whatever the future holds.

    However, 4K sales might jump now due to these next gen systems making the format a bit more accessible.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I like many have loads of older DVDs, and am surprised how good they look. Most
    4k Televisions will upscale any media. I know it's not Blu-ray quality, but for
    example I'm more than happy with my Columbo dvd box set.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited January 2021 Posts: 10,591
    In my experience, the newer the TV is, the worse older home media formats will look. This is the main reason why I tend to upgrade to newer formats of films that I love.

    Physical home media like Blu-rays have become a niche for most people I think. I'll probably keep buying them until they are obsolete.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,181
    jake24 wrote: »
    In my experience, the newer the TV is, the worse older home media formats will look. This is the main reason why I tend to upgrade to newer formats of films that I love.

    Physical home media like Blu-rays have become a niche for most people I think. I'll probably keep buying them until they are obsolete.

    For me it's when I've increased the TV size that things started to look dicey.

    My first HDTV was a 27", so the DVDs I watched like the Bond films all looked pretty solid enough. Blu-ray films looked only marginally better on a TV of that size, so back then I decided that blu-rays I wanted would only be titles I felt deserved it.

    Eventually I got a 40" which was what compelled me to start replacing my DVDs with blu-rays because I started to see the format limitations on DVD. Now I have a 65" TV and oh boy do the DVDs not hold up. If I have any DVDs now it's only because there's no other alternative like my Star Trek: Deep Space Nine DVD set, as there's no HD version of that show.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited January 2021 Posts: 10,591
    jake24 wrote: »
    In my experience, the newer the TV is, the worse older home media formats will look. This is the main reason why I tend to upgrade to newer formats of films that I love.

    Physical home media like Blu-rays have become a niche for most people I think. I'll probably keep buying them until they are obsolete.

    For me it's when I've increased the TV size that things started to look dicey.

    My first HDTV was a 27", so the DVDs I watched like the Bond films all looked pretty solid enough. Blu-ray films looked only marginally better on a TV of that size, so back then I decided that blu-rays I wanted would only be titles I felt deserved it.

    Eventually I got a 40" which was what compelled me to start replacing my DVDs with blu-rays because I started to see the format limitations on DVD. Now I have a 65" TV and oh boy do the DVDs not hold up. If I have any DVDs now it's only because there's no other alternative like my Star Trek: Deep Space Nine DVD set, as there's no HD version of that show.
    Yes, although I do like to collect some old DVD sets (such as the Special Edition Bond set from 02), I rarely find myself using any of them. There are some cool products developed by third parties that can work around this. For example, recently I purchased an HDMI converter for the original XBOX, which allows me to play some old Bond games in HD resolution. Previously my 4K TV made the games look far worse than they did on old SDTVs which rendered the games unplayable. I’m not sure if something like that exists for DVDs but it would be cool.
  • edited January 2021 Posts: 17,753
    I still buy DVDs. When I had the opportunity to jump from the DVD format to Blu-ray, I rarely found myself wanting to pay whatever the extra cost was to get the Blu-ray release of a film/TV show, and just bought the DVD release instead. And then streaming came along only a few years later. I buy Blu-rays if it's titles that I really want to watch in better quality.

    There's also the availability of the films/shows I want to get. Endeavour, one of my favourite shows, is only available on DVD, and that's a TV show which is still in production!
  • Posts: 2,917
    I'm a big fan of silent movies. When Blu-Rays were first becoming popular a lot of well-informed people said, "You can't do much to raise the visual quality of most silents on Blu-Ray." The past few years have proved precisely the opposite--some of the Blu-rays have given silents an almost frightening immediacy--some look as if they'd been filmed yesterday! The same goes for many classic films from later decades. I have made up my mind to never buy a DVD of a classic film is there is a Blu-Ray or HD file available.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    Not everyone is a video/audiophile. DVDs sell like crazy to this day because for most people DVD quality simply is good enough. It hasn't died like VHS did because the sales are still strong, and as long as they continue to sell they'll keep manufacturing DVDs.

    People had no choice with vinyl and people still wanted to continue buying it, yet the industry wanted rid of it because CD's were cheaper to produce and more compact.

    By the 90's they were producing barely any vinyl, one of the reasons that until the more resent resurgence in the format, that 90's vinyl releases were fetching a pretty penny on the 2nd hand market, in fact into the 2000's you could make some money if you had pressings from that period.

    Clearly they didn't feel the faith in Blu-ray that they did in DVD, I suppose the jump wasn't as significant, from tape to digital

    I guess if you aren't going to upgrade your TV you won't be bothered by DVD, although as soon as you go HD and above 40", you will notice the difference.

    I don't think if a film is restored properly it should look like it was released yesterday.

    The point of Blu-ray & 4K UHD Blu-ray in its best examples when restoring a catalogue title is restore it to as close as it looked in its original release.

    I remember seeing some of peoples reviews of the The Godfather films when restored, people who seemed to think that the idea of the format was to make it look like the latest Michael Bay film, totally misunderstanding that the restoration was to make it look like it did on the cinema screen. They were horrified it didn't look like Transformers whatever.

    I guess this is why the niche element comes in, what is the point upgrading things if you have no clue about this, so sticking to DVD makes sense I guess.

    I know I'm a snob, I'm the same with audio, well worse but I love cinema like the majority of us do here. I'm far from having a disposable income to realise this to ridiculous levels.

    The fascinating part of the internet is realising that as much as much as you think you might be devoted to something there will always be many others that will put you in the shade with their abilities to realise things from a materialistic point of view.

    I have a respectable set up but it was realised for not much more than £1000.

  • Posts: 2,917
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I don't think if a film is restored properly it should look like it was released yesterday.

    True. I only meant that in the broadest sense--that some very films don't look "old" at all when viewed on a high-quality Blu-Ray. I have seen films from 1915 on Blu-Ray that do not look at all like what's expected from something filmed a century ago--their visual clarity was astonishing.

    Now in a literal sense, something shot on film should NOT look like something shot yesterday, since that would mean making a celluloid look like digital video, and we're all familiar with horror stories of DNR abuse.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,181
    If blu-rays were true to what films looked exactly like in cinema then we’d see a lot more dirt marks and cigarette burns on the discs. Unless you’re making a project like GRINDHOUSE which was meant to replicate the grimy 70s prints of independent houses.

    I remember being pretty surprised by how DR. NO looked the first time I saw it on HD. It looked like it was shot yesterday but only in the sense that the print was looked very clean and fresh, which is to be expected when going back to the original negative. Even then, it still had an inherent look that’s only unique to cinema of the 1960s. I think the restoration of THE GODFATHER also achieved that. Fresh like it was shot yesterday, but still undeniably a product of 70s cinema.
  • edited January 2021 Posts: 2,917
    One of the blessings about digital frame-by-frame scanning is that imperfections like dirt marks can now be "corrected" and removed. And of course if the work flow starts from a negative you can often avoid common blemishes.

    The properties of various film stocks help give that specific look to films from different eras--I suppose future generations will enjoy something similar when reviewing movies shot directly to video and classing them by advancements in digital technology, but I don't think video will ever have the warmth of film. Luckily that still comes through on Blu-Ray.
  • edited January 2021 Posts: 440
    Revelator wrote: »
    One of the blessings about digital frame-by-frame scanning is that imperfections like dirt marks can now be "corrected" and removed. And of course if the work flow starts from a negative you can often avoid common blemishes.

    The properties of various film stocks help give that specific look to films from different eras--I suppose future generations will enjoy something similar when reviewing movies shot directly to video and classing them by advancements in digital technology, but I don't think video will ever have the warmth of film. Luckily that still comes through on Blu-Ray.

    Film restoration really took its first major leap forward with the advent of digital scanning. Before then there was really only so much a restorer could do, especially when just touching the film put it at a terrible risk.

    I have to say, Knives Out did a shockingly good job of emulating the look of film. It wasn't perfect but it was certainly the closest I've yet seen from a 100% digitally shot movie.

    The film's cinematographer, Steve Yedlin, actually wrote a very interesting and detailed article about how he achieved it.

    This is relevant to Bond in as much as he developed this process of making digital shots resemble film while working on Star Wars: The Last Jedi. A movie which, much like SP and NTTD, was shot mostly on film but still had a solid amount of shots filmed with digital cameras, for stunts, drone filming, and the like.

    https://www.polygon.com/2020/2/6/21125680/film-vs-digital-debate-movies-cinematography

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  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    If blu-rays were true to what films looked exactly like in cinema then we’d see a lot more dirt marks and cigarette burns on the discs. Unless you’re making a project like GRINDHOUSE which was meant to replicate the grimy 70s prints of independent houses.

    I remember being pretty surprised by how DR. NO . the first time I saw it on HD. It looked like it was shot yesterday but only in the sense that the print was looked very clean and fresh, which is to be expected when going back to the original negative. Even then, it still had an inherent look that’s only unique to cinema of the 1960s. I think the restoration of THE GODFATHER also achieved that. Fresh like it was shot yesterday, but still undeniably a product of 70s cinema.

    I apologise, what I meant like you said above as it would look like it did when it was shot without the dirt and anomalies of the day.

    I guess that is why restorers say that it looks even better than it did in the day due to what the technology allows, Jaws seems another example of that, I couldn't hope for a better way to view my favourite film in a home environment.

    I'l be interested to see how good the 4K UHD Blu-ray versions of the first 20 films look, I know you have kindly given us the comparison with the different formats down through the years and compared the I tunes 4K versions to them.

    Although there is only so much I can see on my laptop so the proof is in the pudding as they say. I don't envisage grabbing the whole series again on the format but I will definitely upgrade OHMSS, I have the DC films and will grab NTTD when that eventually appears.

    There might be some exceptions amongst them that I might consider like the first 4 Connery films and SWLM & the TD films, it will depend if there is much of a jump up. OHMSS looked fantastic on my 55" OLED from the Blu-ray and so do the other earlier films, so I might just stick with my James Bond Collection set and just grab OHMSS.

    I think though as soon as you go there and you have the TV to appreciate it, HD and beyond, it is very hard to go back to SD after that. I love the leaps in quality that Blu-ray afforded when it is exploited to its best and anyone trying to say there isn't much difference, doesn't have a great TV or they need to go to the opticians, because there certainly is, also if you are going to go up to HD or UHD then no point sticking with a substandard TV.



  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    HDR is more transformative than 4K. Too bad these are in SDR.

    This is how I feel as well. 4K looks great, but upgrade from 1080p to 4K doesn't come with the same wow factor as the jump from standard definition to high definition.

    I'm blind in one eye so basically anything 720p and above looks amazing to me. However, HDR is the true game changer. Far better colours and colour contrast that make the image come alive, especially with some good HDR content. I'm glad it's starting to become more common.
  • Posts: 113
    Digital tools and techniques allow for incomparable greater control and ability to translate film better. however this isn't always done properly and many variables arise. 4K and HDR is a whole new bag of tricks and no one TV or system has perfected everything quite yet.

    The great thing about the old transfers is that video system issues aside the transfers were largely hands off until the DVD era where changing things really took off.

    The best thing about the 4K releases for me will be the improvements made to the non-Lowry masters already release don BD and finally getting away from the awful things the Lowry team did to the series with de-graining and color timing etc.

    For catalog titles the hard and sad par tis that while the picture is generally improved with each go round the audio is often not. That's what pushed me into becoming a Laserdisc addict. Getting into that format will really show you how to work with upscaling and analog video performance!
  • Posts: 1,181
    So I've had the 4k blurays of craig films since right before Christmas and was having a tough time trying to decide on which 4k bluray player. I suddenly realized I could play them on my Xbox One S. Had no idea it even played 4k blurays until I stumbled across an article or video talking about it a few days ago.

    Tried it out last night on Skyfall and it looked amazing. The UHD version on Vudu is no slouch, but 4k bluray was just a notch above that. Can't wait to watch the rest of them.

    It may not be the best 4k bluray player, but I'm glad I didn't jump the gun and buy one before christmas. I'm still going to look into a stand alone player eventually but this will get me by for a bit in a pinch. I appreciate all the feedback on the players you guys use. If I see a good deal I'll try to share it on here in case anyone else is looking for 4k bluray player as well.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I was hoping with the delay in NTTD, they might have released the older films on 4k, as a way of advertising and helping to hype interest in the movie.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,963
    Was anyone else unimpressed by the CR and QoS 4Ks? Made the picture more muted and less colorful, in my opinion, yet the SF 4K was beyond fantastic.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    Was anyone else unimpressed by the CR and QoS 4Ks? Made the picture more muted and less colorful, in my opinion, yet the SF 4K was beyond fantastic.

    Do they have HDR? Thought 4K with HDR was supposed to make things more colourful.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I could be wrong but I do remember reading somewhere that both Skyfall and
    Spectre had sections recorded digitally precisely because they were destined
    to be on 4K. It might explain why they look better than CR and QOS.
    Not all 4k copies look fantastic, I recently picked up Jurassic Park in 4k, and
    don't think it's a big improvement over the standard HD version, although I'm
    sure experts can point out all the improvements.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,181
    SF and SP were mastered at 4K, whereas CR and QOS were done at 2K which meant they had to be uprezzed.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    edited January 2021 Posts: 2,523
    SF and SP were mastered at 4K, whereas CR and QOS were done at 2K which meant they had to be uprezzed.

    With the software they have nowadays there should be no excuse for all 4k copies not to look fantastic ?
  • Posts: 113
    Most digital effects are hard encoded and finished at certain resolutions so they're stuck that way unless completely redone from scratch.
    Unless a brand new 4K film out was done for a new master most titles after the digital changeover are going to be 2K upscales which means the vast majority of films since only a small fraction are ever completed let alone finished at 4K resolution.
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