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Comments
I'm not calling you a coward & nobody is blaming the victims.
I'm sorry for how this tragedy has affected you. Truly.
Especially in the UK, I might add...
Everyone should say whatever they want, even if you don't agree with them.
But it's really shame that the same people that were all "Je Suis Charlie" on the social media, will probably share hate for people they don't agree with.
This proves my point. Countless people have to die all over the World by Islamic extremists before Islam in Britain decides to "open its doors", (implying that without the terrorism, the doors are closed), ah, reading further, 20 Mosques are opening up of the 1750 in Britain,
20 years ago, I could have been there, I was on this line the morning, the attack was on the evening (terrorists don't get up early, it's a lazy job after all).
Also, about my experience of working in foreign countries :
In the US, well, I could joke about the guns and the big cars.
In Japan, well, I could joke about the time they spent at work.
In Spain, well, I could joke about the time they spent not at work :)
Etc, etc..
But in UAE, I could not joke about anything related to the cliches of the people there. Oh no. And their sense of humour seemed to rely A LOT on describing women as the scum of the earth. I suspect most people trying to excuse religions are men...
This is the kind of comment that will get this thread closed.
Imagine Mr Fry's punishment if he had made these comments within Saudi Arabia. This is exactly the type of free speech that we should be supporting. Is SF guilty of stirring things up. Should he keep quit?, If guys with AK47s come after him, is he partly responsible? Of course not, its his opinion, he is asked a question, he gives his honest answer.
Fry's answer was brilliant. He won't get in trouble (touch wood) because people would assume it is the Christian god.
I think it is quite telling that the jokes would be at the expense of the most vulnerable and most oppressed members of their society.
Just don't make the mistake of using experiences in oppresive Arab kingdoms to draw inferences on the entire muslim population, including those in South East Asia and elsewhere.
As I've said repeatedly, these Sunni Arab Kingdoms are the absolute worst offenders when it comes to their restrictive interpretation of Islam because it suits them. UAE is not as bad as Saudi Arabia, which is the worst offender, but it's not much better either.
I've lived in Malaysia, and in Canada, where there are large muslim populations (particularly in the urban centres in Canada). I have not seen any of this sort of behaviour. In fact, they are particularly respectful and protective of the women within their population.
I have not lived in the UK for many years, but I have heard that things have gotten out of hand there. That was not the way it was when I was there. As I've said before, muslims should integrate and assimilate into society in countries with dominant cultures. If they choose not to, then they have to accept whatever consequences come their way, including possible discrimination.
I am also in complete agreement with Fry's comments above.
Yes, I have noticed that depending on where one resides, one's experience seems to be different. As I've said, I've not lived in the UK for many years, but I hear things have gotten out of hand. That is regrettable and I don't know how/when it started. Muslims must integrate or they are increasingly likely to be ostracized.
This is not the solution however:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552894/We-CHRISTIAN-patrol-Far-right-thugs-swill-Stella-outside-east-London-mosques-bid-confront-Muslims-object-behaviour.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-first-christian-patrols-return-to-east-london-in-wake-of-charlie-hebdo-shootings-9988329.html
And your thoughts specifically on this? Just so we ensure that this conversation continues to stay balanced and reasonable.
I don't know why papers give Britain First the time of day. They are a group of twenty to thirty thugs who swagger around town centres thinking they are some kind of militia. Britain First are not a problem, rather an irritation. The Muslim communities of the UK are laughing at them, and I'm laughing along with them.
Cowardly, pathetic opportunists. CH was/is republican, atheist and secular.
On all of that we are in complete agreement.
You should get used to people disagreeing with you, there are some free will outside religion :)
It was during my life working for movies, TV, events and so on. Here it was for an event, the opening of some factory in the desert, with the heads of the state there. English spoken. It was the usual misogynist jokes from the locals, but well it was only that. Hopefully, between foreigners we could joke about them asking us for some alcohol...
To put it in a more general way, heterosexual men discussing about whether religion is cool or not is quite akward in the end. You'll never experience what religion is truly about when you spend all your life on the right side of the fence.
I've had numerous people disagreeing with me particularly on this and on other threads. I'm sure many here know I encourage intelligent debate on all issues. If you want to have an intelligent conversation without being intentionally antagonistic you're welcome to. ;)
Depressing.
What they mean is they want sharia, and if they cannot have it, they will act as if it was in place anyway.
I...I don't get all these killings in name of the Islam anymore. Why bother living in a country like Denmark, France or Netherlands...if you think life in those countries is so fucked up? I know a lot has to do with being poor and having no chance at all to have a good career (Watch the wunderful French film "Entre Les Murs").
But being poor never justifies killings. Never. In my opinion Denmark is already doing a very good thing by putting potential muslim-fundamentalists, and other "Syria-travellers" who wanna do it the IS-way, in re-educational bootcamps. If Islamic State is doing the same, then we should re-educate and correct them so they fit our western societies.
Just putting them years and decades in prison....or "re-move" them back to the Middle East or Africa isn't the start of a good solution, but only re-locating the problems. And then sooner or later a new 9/11 happens again....
Well both Charb (real name : Stephane Charbonnier, the main target in the Charlie Hebdo attack) and Lars Vilk (main target of today's attack) are in this image :
(center and center-right)
I fail to see any relationship whatsoever between "being poor" and what's happening. On the contrary, it takes a lot of rich people to organize this, lots of relationships. I understand many fear to acknowledge terrorism is irrationnal and feel more comfortable if they think the world they live in is rational, and that everything can be solved with a few taxes here and there, but I'm afraid they're totally wrong (they spend a lot of energy making up a false but coherent view of the world to avoid facing it though !)
About the fact themselves, given that I've seen dozens of errors here about the Charlie Hebdo attacks, hinting at the bad quality of the reports from foreing medias, I think it's safe to say we should wait a lot before being sure of anything. Even though there was the French ambassador in the meeting, I'm not sure the first reports here will be so good either...
PS : And now, an attack on Jews too in Copenhague. It seems "Religion" is written all over what's happening IMO.