CharlieHebdo

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  • edited February 2015 Posts: 4,603
    Just to add, there is a danger that only high profile acts (like murder) make it into the front page and these can be written off as "lone wolf" extremists but IMHO we should be just as concerned at lower levels of threat to our freedom of speech:

    these guys dont have AK-47s. just loud voices, thuggish behavoir and a sense of mob rule, the irony is that it makes me actually want to watch the movie
    warning - strong language


  • - "Gee; have you heard the news ? Someone just killed 12 people in the name of Islam and.."

    - "Stop, please. Please consider although he's claiming that, he's actually more a victim of the society. It has nothing to do with religion. It has a lot more to do with the inequality of society, his only project in his life was to kill whose he felt who oppressed him. Don't blame religion, blame society"

    - "Ok, ok.. but have you heard the news ? Someone just killed some doctor in a abortion clinic in the name of.."

    - "No, no, don't end your sentence. This has nothing to do with religious beliefs once again. It has more to do with the decay of our moral values. When you provoke people every day, you have to deal with the fact some symbols of that decay will be attacked. Once again, don't blame religion, blame society"

    - "Uh, uh, but you have heard the news ? Someone killed a whole family of neighbours because they were making too much noise, he had 6 guns, that's incredible you can buy easily so many..."

    - "Ah, I see, gun control freak, right ? No, no, this guy was an atheist I'm sure. No moral grounds. You see, religious people are peaceful if you don't provoke them. Atheists are dangerous in all circumstances; Stalin, Hitler, see?"

    - "Oh...but have you heard the news ? Someone stole a screenplay of SPECTRE and put it on the Internet, they say it's an answer to..."

    - "Kill the b*stards !"
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    @patb that last post was unbelievable. Truly shocking. Almost animalistic reactions there.

    Talk about inflamed passions.

    As I said, how one identifies is key.
  • Posts: 4,603
    If someone had not videod the incident, it either would not have got onto the web or it would have been described verbally and lacked the detail and impact that video brings. This is not an isolated case. But it does not get reported. Obviously, these guys in the cinema are not murderers but you can see how a culture of passion etc can lead to the next step. IMHO, to isolate the murderers as having nothing to do with Islam and repeating over and over again that Islam is a 100% peaceful movement is wish thinking.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    IMHO, to isolate the murderers as having nothing to do with Islam and repeating over and over again that Islam is a 100% peaceful movement is wish thinking.

    That's true, but I just can't go to the next logical step and say that all people of Islamic faith are not peaceful (which is the logical inference). I know many and they are very peaceful & humble people. They would have just probably walked out of that theatre but certainly not acted like those guys.
  • Posts: 15,106
    I am dreading pressing Play.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    IMHO, to isolate the murderers as having nothing to do with Islam and repeating over and over again that Islam is a 100% peaceful movement is wish thinking.

    That's true, but I just can't go to the next logical step and say that all people of Islamic faith are not peaceful (which is the logical inference). I know many and they are very peaceful & humble people. They would have just probably walked out of that theatre but certainly not acted like those guys.

    Of course there are many people who think of themselves as muslims who are peaceful, I know several myself. But Islam is not a peaceful religion. It is pure inflammatory hate speech.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    IMHO, to isolate the murderers as having nothing to do with Islam and repeating over and over again that Islam is a 100% peaceful movement is wish thinking.

    That's true, but I just can't go to the next logical step and say that all people of Islamic faith are not peaceful (which is the logical inference). I know many and they are very peaceful & humble people. They would have just probably walked out of that theatre but certainly not acted like those guys.

    Of course there are many people who think of themselves as muslims who are peaceful, I know several myself. But Islam is not a peaceful religion. It is pure inflammatory hate speech.

    I'll admit to not knowing enough about this religion that is practised by many people over the world (and is one of the fastest growing) to disagree with you.

    I purchased a "The Teaching Company" dvd which discussed all the major religions some years ago and watched it fully. I don't recall them discussing Islam as inflammatory, but I intend to watch the entire series again.

    http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/comparative-religion.html

    People's practice of religion with all its illogical and unproveable elements really interests me. As I've said before, I know many extremely smart people from various religious faiths. I have never found a consistent, logical explanation for why they believe their faith though.
  • Posts: 4,603
    The fear of death plays a very strong role.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    bondjames wrote: »
    @patb that last post was unbelievable. Truly shocking. Almost animalistic reactions there.
    Almost? :))
    That was tribal cave man mentality all the way.
    In civilized society when one is not enjoying the show one leaves.
    In tribal cultures a perceived attack on the particular method of thunder worship triggers the fight or flight mechanism as demonstrated in that video.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    For the record, Judaism is just as bad. Muhammad (if he existed) wanted to be a jewish prophet initially (marrried to a rich jewish widow, later a six year old girl named Aisha) , but was discarded as such. Hence the jew hatred later in his career.

    All Abrahamic religions are bogus and dangerous.
  • Posts: 15,106
    For the record, Judaism is just as bad. Muhammad (if he existed) wanted to be a jewish prophet initially (marrried to a rich jewish widow, later a six year old girl named Aisha) , but was discarded as such. Hence the jew hatred later in his career.

    All Abrahamic religions are bogus and dangerous.

    It is just as bad intrinsically, although of all three Abrahamic religions Judaism is the one that is less harmful as it is not based on conversions, thus it does not have the same hegemonic ambitions.

    An interesting critique of the rather cowardly of both conservatives and liberals on the issue of free speech following the CH massacre: http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2015/02/a-duty-to-mock
  • Posts: 15,106
    patb wrote: »
    Just to add, there is a danger that only high profile acts (like murder) make it into the front page and these can be written off as "lone wolf" extremists but IMHO we should be just as concerned at lower levels of threat to our freedom of speech:

    these guys dont have AK-47s. just loud voices, thuggish behavoir and a sense of mob rule, the irony is that it makes me actually want to watch the movie
    warning - strong language

    I just watched it. Downright scarier than murders. And nobody can give the excuse of lone wolves or deranged minds. Or the Crusades. This is thuggish intimidation.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Judaism is not based on conversion like Islam, but just like Islam it is based on world hegemony and just like islam and Christianity it is based on a "we are better than everyone else" mindset.
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 4,603
    delete
  • Posts: 15,106
    Judaism is not based on conversion like Islam, but just like Islam it is based on world hegemony and just like islam and Christianity it is based on a "we are better than everyone else" mindset.

    Well, not quite, as they are meant to be proven right when the Messiah comes. Messianism does not necessarily bring violence, but conversions almost always does. Also, Jews do not believe in an afterlife, or it is not an essential part of their faith like it is for the Christians and Muslims.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    patb wrote: »
    delete
    Curious... why delete that? It made a rather strong point for the need to de-tribalize religion.
  • Posts: 4,603
    I saw that the video had been posted by a right wing group and did not want to imply that in any way I was connected to them. It is a video worth watching but I need to find an independent source
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It is the "we are better than everyone else" element, if it exists ( not sure) that I have the most problem with re: religion. I always ask religious people that question: "so what about the rest of us?"
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Judaism is not based on conversion like Islam, but just like Islam it is based on world hegemony and just like islam and Christianity it is based on a "we are better than everyone else" mindset.

    Well, not quite, as they are meant to be proven right when the Messiah comes. Messianism does not necessarily bring violence, but conversions almost always does. Also, Jews do not believe in an afterlife, or it is not an essential part of their faith like it is for the Christians and Muslims.

    World hegemony is not a goal in the Torah per se, but it is in the Talmud.
  • Posts: 4,603
    Universal truth is universal truth: if your version of the truth seeks to apply your own set of values on to everyone else on the surface of the planet, it is natural that this will lead to conflict of some kind.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    patb wrote: »
    I saw that the video had been posted by a right wing group and did not want to imply that in any way I was connected to them. It is a video worth watching but I need to find an independent source
    I understand. Okay, good call.
    One thing though, my religious freedom is being violated in my own country! In MY religion it is a sacrament to drive a motor vehicle in excess of 100 mph for a period of no less than five minutes each day to honour the God of movement- yet I keep getting pulled over by the police and have to pay fines. Why am I being targeted for discrimination in this way?!?! I rarely hit anyone....
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    I saw that the video had been posted by a right wing group and did not want to imply that in any way I was connected to them. It is a video worth watching but I need to find an independent source
    I understand. Okay, good call.
    One thing though, my religious freedom is being violated in my own country! In MY religion it is a sacrament to drive a motor vehicle in excess of 100 mph for a period of no less than five minutes each day to honour the God of movement- yet I keep getting pulled over by the police and have to pay fines. Why am I being targeted for discrimination in this way?!?! I rarely hit anyone....

    Kill them. Problem solved. I guarantee you will enter a divine brothel.
  • Posts: 4,603

    Judge the video purely on its own merits, it is so weird that I was trying to work out if it had been dubbed afterwards as a set up but it seems genuine, I like the guys in dayglow jackets who have just walked in off the building site and check the guy to the right in the front row who looks very uncomfortable .
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I guarantee there is no dubbing. That figure is well known in Norway, he gets invited to tv debates as a representative for muslims all the time and he is right. He is not an extreme muslim, he is just a muslim.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    When I do something wrong, I don't wait for the others to take action; I stone myself.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    When I do something wrong, I don't wait for the others to take action; I stone myself.

    You and @Birdleson.
  • All Abrahamic religions are bogus and dangerous.

    "Monotheistic religions creates hate because you're sure others are wrong. Polytheistic religions opens your mind about having various kinds of religions in the same world. Discuss"
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    All Abrahamic religions are bogus and dangerous.

    "Monotheistic religions creates hate because you're sure others are wrong. Polytheistic religions opens your mind about having various kinds of religions in the same world. Discuss"

    For all their hate towards Satan, they sure make him look like their God.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Bond is fantasy? I will kill you for saying that, and you know you deserve it! Or are you talking about the Brosnan films?
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