YOLT: All style and no substance?

TheWizardOfIce

DarthDimi wrote: »

My issues with YOLT: a brutally honest DD rant

"We couldn't find a castle by the sea"
It was originally intended to put SPECTRE HQ in a seashore castle, more in keeping with Fleming's novel. But since the Japanese don't build a lot of castles by the sea, that idea was changed to the hollowed out volcano... What, so you can't find a seashore castle anywhere else, give it a modest facelift to make it slightly more Japanese and tell us we're in Japan? Almost all of the Korea stuff in DAD was filmed in the UK! Besides, plenty of volcanoes in Japan but the actual interiors were stage work in Pinewood anyway. If the idea was not to sell us something that doesn't exist in reality, an extinct volcano housing a rocket launch platform for space travel isn't exactly a legitimate substitute, now is it...

Rockets swallow rockets
Why? SPECTRE hopes to lure the Russians and the Americans into war. So, simply shoot them out of the sky. Why actually send a manned spacecraft in orbit to "eat" the capsules and take them back to Earth, when you have no use for either the capsules or the astronauts anyway? By mysteriously picking the capsules out of space, you also make the idea of Sovjets and Americans fighting each other much less convincing. And since firing an armed missile is still a lot easier than launching a giant rocket that will manoeuvre back to Earth and be ready for immediate re-use, the plot could have been a trifle more credible.

James Bond must die, but why?
First of all, what's with this ridiculous set-up? No-one thought James Bond wasn't going to survive passed the OT because everyone saw the trailers, the posters and the TV clips. But okay, let's say it does fool a few people into thinking that Bond is dead, I'm still confused. Bond sleeps with a girl who's in on it. But so is Bond since he doesn't look a bit surprised aboard the submarine and in fact he had the breathing equipment on when he came in. So why does she "suddenly" hit the button, allow the gunmen to storm in while she looks all tensed up and have them perforate the bed (but none of the bullets actually goes through the bed)? Couldn't she have just said, "sorry James but it's time to pull off this charade now"? Wouldn't be very exciting for us, I agree...

... but then I still wonder why all this fuss? Osato and Brand "knew" that Bond was dead because they had read it in the newspapers. But the newspapers had printed his photo - because all secret agents who die draw front page attention - and yet neither Osato nor Brand, when sitting close to Bond, recognises him a mere few hours later? Not the slightest sign of suspicion? No, because the papers had told them that Bond is dead so this mysterious doppelgänger couldn't possibly be Bond... And these people work for an organisation that's all about "counter-intelligence". This unnecessary "plot twist" makes our enemies look even more incompetent. All we get out of this is a dull reason to call the film You Only Live Twice.

What gives people the right to complain about Moonraker?
People tell me they loath Moonraker because the entire film is just one big excuse to get to space where the money shots will be. The first and second acts are basically about Bond following simple clues to get to Drax' lair. Okay, let's talk about YOLT then.

Bond has an ally, Henderson. He gets killed. (More about that later.) Bond follows the killer and takes his place. What does the other killer do? Hide for a while? Go to a bar and celebrate a successful mission with some sake and a geisha? Nope, it's night-time in Tokyo but the man insists on taking his partner to Osato chemicals headquarters, to the boss' office no less, so that right there half of Bond's investigating is done for him. And by sheer luck, Bond finds the bar and by sheer luck again, he spots a safe in the mirror. He's even luckier to grab that one microfilm holding some valuable clues to help him make progress.

But don't worry, Bond isn't out of the building yet. Oh wait, he is. Because Aki had been following him all that time? She hadn't seen the killer approach Henderson's house while waiting in her car? By the way, Bond has to go through Sumu wrestlers and the embarrassing exchange of codes with Aki before he can get to Henderson, yet Henderson's house is totally unguarded. A killer can just walk up to the paper walls and put a knife in the man? Tight security.

Speaking of security, Henderson tells Bond he can meet Tiger Tanaka "tonight". Yet Tiger can't just invite Bond into his house? Of course not. He needs Aki to perform ridiculous theatrics in that underground whatever-the-hell-that-place-is so that Bond can literally drop in through the ceiling. What if when Aki pulled over and jumped out of the car Bond had decided "enough action for one evening" and just walked away? And despite Aki and Henderson verifying that Bond really is Bond, we need to go through that I love you routine again.

Back to the plot. Lucky Bond. The microfilm he had just randomly grabbed contains valuable information: rocket fuel and pictures linked to dead diving girls. OK, so now we know who's responsible for it. So let's raid those Osato offices and see what we can find. Even if SPECTRE is involved as Bond magically assumes, if you disable the supplier and manufacturer of the various things needed to keep the space operation going, that's half a battle won right there. Instead, Bond goes there all by himself. He's very lucky that he wasn't shot the first instance he got in.

Aki "loves" Bond?
Let's see. A few minutes to get to Henderson, even less time to get from Osato to Tiger... Yet later that evening Aki walks over to Bond and they hug and kiss as if they had been lovers for years but had been separated for so long. To keep a clear perspective on things, all of this takes place in one evening, from Bond getting torpedoed to the shores of Japan all the way into Aki's bed: exactly one evening. And the moments these two have shared were brief. Things went fast in previous films too but at least GF makes it obvious that both Bond and Jill just wanted a bit of fun. Aki and Bond, by contrast, make it look like there's hardcore romance involved, and Barry's music more or less emphasises that fact. Surely even Bond needs a bit more time with a girl before he genuinely falls in love with her...

Simple annoyances
- Henderson is stabbed with a knife but neither the stabbing nor Henderson dying comes with a sound? Any sound? Yet when Bond throws himself through the wall, the ripping makes one hell of a noise.

- Who put the camera in space that shows the swallowing of the capsule from any desired angle?

- We need to make Bond Japanese so he can blend in. Why? Would the islanders sell him out? Or is it so he can infiltrate SPECTRE HQ? But didn't we have Bond officially dead for that purpose? Must we also give him a makeover (that clearly didn't survive the next 12 hours)?

But don't worry, I still like YOLT.
Of course I do. The music is great, the sets are impressive as hell, some of the action is staged very well and iconic scenes wrote Bond film history left and right. But the quality drop from TB to YOLT, in terms of story and script, is almost sickening. In FRWL, every line served a purpose, every performance was gold, every editing decision was thought through... But YOLT went for the set pieces, the big but empty spectacle. Lines were meaninglessly dropped like horse manure, the plot moved on coasting on a lot of that GF goodwill we still carried with us. I'll say it right now: I think Roald Dahl was a terrible choice for a screenwriter. He gave us a sort of comic book version of Bond, a self-parody almost. And so yes, as I grew a bit older in my teenage years, these issues became apparent and plenty.

Classic rant Sir.

I'd just like to throw in the sheer insanity of the plan.
We'll ignore the fact that to set up a space program as advanced as NASA at the time would be crippling as the Chinese are paying for it: 'Gentleman may I congratulate you on your equipment' (he's taking about the rocket and volcano set up by the way. We haven't quite hit the 70s double entendre levels yet).

However Ernst states quite clearly 'extortion is my business' yet singularly fails to appreciate that a) once USA and USSR have 'annihilated each other' there will precious few souls to extort anything from (unless he is going to wander round like playing Fallout relieving people of their bottle caps?) and b) the extra millions he wants from the Chinese will be as worthless as what he was already paid when the worlds economy collapses the moment all the nukes go off.

So, when the plan is successful, at the next SPECTRE board meeting (held in the, presumably, hermetically sealed volcano away from all the radiation) when those guys are giving all their earnings for the Great Train Robbery etc shouldn't some brave bloke stand up and say:

'Sorry Ernst but I just wonder if you could outline the 'This organisation does not tolerate failure' policy a bit more clearly for me? Because from where I'm standing due to your genius volcano rocket scheme SPECTRE is now bankrupt because the millions in our account are worthless and we are all going to die when the oxygen and water run out. Only I was at the meeting in Paris a couple of years back and that hijacking of the atom bombs plan didn't go too well either. All I'm seeing is serial failure from you Ernst. Isn't about time you practice what you preach and jumped in your own piranha tank?'

'I think you'll find the volcano rocket scheme was a success in that the object was to provoke WW3. Thus I am not bound by the failure clause. Check the small print in your cone-tract.'

Stromberg and Drax are mental and don't care about destroying the world but Blofeld should want to get some material gain out of the whole business shouldn't he?

bondjames

I loved it as a kid too (it was the first Connery Bond I watched). Since then it's declined because I think all its larger than life elements have been done better in other Bonds (I feel similarly with GF). However, I am in the mood for it now for some strange reason, since it is a larger than life Bond film done reasonably well imho, and Japan is beautifully filmed in it. So I might try to take a watch this weekend.

boldfinger

TheWizardOfIce wrote: »

DarthDimi wrote: »

My issues with YOLT: a brutally honest DD rant

"We couldn't find a castle by the sea"
It was originally intended to put SPECTRE HQ in a seashore castle, more in keeping with Fleming's novel. But since the Japanese don't build a lot of castles by the sea, that idea was changed to the hollowed out volcano... What, so you can't find a seashore castle anywhere else, give it a modest facelift to make it slightly more Japanese and tell us we're in Japan? Almost all of the Korea stuff in DAD was filmed in the UK! Besides, plenty of volcanoes in Japan but the actual interiors were stage work in Pinewood anyway. If the idea was not to sell us something that doesn't exist in reality, an extinct volcano housing a rocket launch platform for space travel isn't exactly a legitimate substitute, now is it...

Rockets swallow rockets
Why? SPECTRE hopes to lure the Russians and the Americans into war. So, simply shoot them out of the sky. Why actually send a manned spacecraft in orbit to "eat" the capsules and take them back to Earth, when you have no use for either the capsules or the astronauts anyway? By mysteriously picking the capsules out of space, you also make the idea of Sovjets and Americans fighting each other much less convincing. And since firing an armed missile is still a lot easier than launching a giant rocket that will manoeuvre back to Earth and be ready for immediate re-use, the plot could have been a trifle more credible.

James Bond must die, but why?
First of all, what's with this ridiculous set-up? No-one thought James Bond wasn't going to survive passed the OT because everyone saw the trailers, the posters and the TV clips. But okay, let's say it does fool a few people into thinking that Bond is dead, I'm still confused. Bond sleeps with a girl who's in on it. But so is Bond since he doesn't look a bit surprised aboard the submarine and in fact he had the breathing equipment on when he came in. So why does she "suddenly" hit the button, allow the gunmen to storm in while she looks all tensed up and have them perforate the bed (but none of the bullets actually goes through the bed)? Couldn't she have just said, "sorry James but it's time to pull off this charade now"? Wouldn't be very exciting for us, I agree...

... but then I still wonder why all this fuss? Osato and Brand "knew" that Bond was dead because they had read it in the newspapers. But the newspapers had printed his photo - because all secret agents who die draw front page attention - and yet neither Osato nor Brand, when sitting close to Bond, recognises him a mere few hours later? Not the slightest sign of suspicion? No, because the papers had told them that Bond is dead so this mysterious doppelgänger couldn't possibly be Bond... And these people work for an organisation that's all about "counter-intelligence". This unnecessary "plot twist" makes our enemies look even more incompetent. All we get out of this is a dull reason to call the film You Only Live Twice.

What gives people the right to complain about Moonraker?
People tell me they loath Moonraker because the entire film is just one big excuse to get to space where the money shots will be. The first and second acts are basically about Bond following simple clues to get to Drax' lair. Okay, let's talk about YOLT then.

Bond has an ally, Henderson. He gets killed. (More about that later.) Bond follows the killer and takes his place. What does the other killer do? Hide for a while? Go to a bar and celebrate a successful mission with some sake and a geisha? Nope, it's night-time in Tokyo but the man insists on taking his partner to Osato chemicals headquarters, to the boss' office no less, so that right there half of Bond's investigating is done for him. And by sheer luck, Bond finds the bar and by sheer luck again, he spots a safe in the mirror. He's even luckier to grab that one microfilm holding some valuable clues to help him make progress.

But don't worry, Bond isn't out of the building yet. Oh wait, he is. Because Aki had been following him all that time? She hadn't seen the killer approach Henderson's house while waiting in her car? By the way, Bond has to go through Sumu wrestlers and the embarrassing exchange of codes with Aki before he can get to Henderson, yet Henderson's house is totally unguarded. A killer can just walk up to the paper walls and put a knife in the man? Tight security.

Speaking of security, Henderson tells Bond he can meet Tiger Tanaka "tonight". Yet Tiger can't just invite Bond into his house? Of course not. He needs Aki to perform ridiculous theatrics in that underground whatever-the-hell-that-place-is so that Bond can literally drop in through the ceiling. What if when Aki pulled over and jumped out of the car Bond had decided "enough action for one evening" and just walked away? And despite Aki and Henderson verifying that Bond really is Bond, we need to go through that I love you routine again.

Back to the plot. Lucky Bond. The microfilm he had just randomly grabbed contains valuable information: rocket fuel and pictures linked to dead diving girls. OK, so now we know who's responsible for it. So let's raid those Osato offices and see what we can find. Even if SPECTRE is involved as Bond magically assumes, if you disable the supplier and manufacturer of the various things needed to keep the space operation going, that's half a battle won right there. Instead, Bond goes there all by himself. He's very lucky that he wasn't shot the first instance he got in.

Aki "loves" Bond?
Let's see. A few minutes to get to Henderson, even less time to get from Osato to Tiger... Yet later that evening Aki walks over to Bond and they hug and kiss as if they had been lovers for years but had been separated for so long. To keep a clear perspective on things, all of this takes place in one evening, from Bond getting torpedoed to the shores of Japan all the way into Aki's bed: exactly one evening. And the moments these two have shared were brief. Things went fast in previous films too but at least GF makes it obvious that both Bond and Jill just wanted a bit of fun. Aki and Bond, by contrast, make it look like there's hardcore romance involved, and Barry's music more or less emphasises that fact. Surely even Bond needs a bit more time with a girl before he genuinely falls in love with her...

Simple annoyances
- Henderson is stabbed with a knife but neither the stabbing nor Henderson dying comes with a sound? Any sound? Yet when Bond throws himself through the wall, the ripping makes one hell of a noise.

- Who put the camera in space that shows the swallowing of the capsule from any desired angle?

- We need to make Bond Japanese so he can blend in. Why? Would the islanders sell him out? Or is it so he can infiltrate SPECTRE HQ? But didn't we have Bond officially dead for that purpose? Must we also give him a makeover (that clearly didn't survive the next 12 hours)?

But don't worry, I still like YOLT.
Of course I do. The music is great, the sets are impressive as hell, some of the action is staged very well and iconic scenes wrote Bond film history left and right. But the quality drop from TB to YOLT, in terms of story and script, is almost sickening. In FRWL, every line served a purpose, every performance was gold, every editing decision was thought through... But YOLT went for the set pieces, the big but empty spectacle. Lines were meaninglessly dropped like horse manure, the plot moved on coasting on a lot of that GF goodwill we still carried with us. I'll say it right now: I think Roald Dahl was a terrible choice for a screenwriter. He gave us a sort of comic book version of Bond, a self-parody almost. And so yes, as I grew a bit older in my teenage years, these issues became apparent and plenty.

Classic rant Sir.

I'd just like to throw in the sheer insanity of the plan.
We'll ignore the fact that to set up a space program as advanced as NASA at the time would be crippling as the Chinese are paying for it: 'Gentleman may I congratulate you on your equipment' (he's taking about the rocket and volcano set up. We haven't quite it the 70s double entendre levels yet).

However Ernst states quite clearly 'extortion is my business' yet singularly fails to appreciate that a) once USA and USSR have 'annihilated each other' there will precious few souls to extort anything from (unless he is going to wander round like playing Fallout relieving people of their bottle caps?) and b) the extra millions he wants from the Chinese will be as worthless as what he was already paid when the worlds economy collapses the moment all the nukes go off.

So, when the plan is successful, at the next SPECTRE board meeting (held in the, presumably, hermetically sealed volcano away from all the radiation) when those guys are giving all their earnings for the Great Train Robbery etc shouldn't some brave bloke stand up and say:

'Sorry Ernst but I just wonder if you could outline the 'This organisation does not tolerate failure' policy a bit more clearly for me? Because from where I'm standing due to your genius volcano rocket scheme SPECTRE is now bankrupt because the millions in our account are worthless and we are all going to die when the oxygen and water run out. Only I was at the meeting in Paris a couple of years back and that hijacking of the atom bombs plan didn't go too well either. All I'm seeing is serial failure from you Ernst. Isn't about time you practice what you preach and jumped in your own piranha tank?'

'I think you'll find the volcano rocket scheme was a success in that the object was to provoke WW3. Thus I am not bound by the failure clause. Check the small print in your cone-tract.'

Stromberg and Drax are mental and don't care about destroying the world but Blofeld should want to get some material gain out of the whole business shouldn't he?

Fantastic points from both of you, @DarthDimi and @TheWizardOfIce :-))! That I never thought about any of those things shows me how well the film is done :-).

Crazysoul95

Yes unfortunatly, this was once my favourite bond, now its im my bottom 5...

OHMSS69

It took me seven years to finally see YOLT (I had missed it during its initial run) and I was impressed but during a second viewing 3 years later I was not so blown away. I noticed the outlandishness of the plot and the stupid plot points: the capsule coming down and only the UK picked it up, the gadgetry, the crazy SPECTRE caper, Blofeld, and finally Connery's lackadaisal performance. I was still impressed with Aki and she remains (IMO) the one bright spot in a dumb film.

DarthDimi

@TheWizardOfIce
I hadn't even contemplated the extortion plot that way. Thanks for pointing out those things too, sir. :)

RogueAgent

Not just YOLT but any of the older earlier Bond movies, I just suspend myself from the daily reality of life and just enjoy the film for what it is.

DarthDimi

At least DN, FRWL and OHMSS tried to make more sense and paid closer attention to credibility. GF and TB pushed their luck somewhat but still got away with it. YOLT just didn't care...

echo

No. It is still a '60s Bond so it has the energy of that time period in a way the later Bonds do not.

Plus, I only appreciate the score more as I grow older. Barry sometimes came up with three or four great themes in a single film. The later composers just can't hold a candle to him.

Thunderfinger

This is what happens when you let a children book author pen a Bond film.

OHMSS69

echo wrote: »

No. It is still a '60s Bond so it has the energy of that time period in a way the later Bonds do not.

Plus, I only appreciate the score more as I grow older. Barry sometimes came up with three or four great themes in a single film. The later composers just can't hold a candle to him.

You are so right. The YOLT score is damned good. The far east themed music, the thumping action tracks (A drop in the Ocean, Bond adverts WW3) and the haunting Space March remains one of my favorites.

Ludovico

DarthDimi wrote: »

At least DN, FRWL and OHMSS tried to make more sense and paid closer attention to credibility. GF and TB pushed their luck somewhat but still got away with it. YOLT just didn't care...

My big issue with it. That and the heavy use of scifi. YOLT is the first true misfire of the series.

OHMSS69

Funny how the production team will fall into such a trap with an OTT entry, then the serious attempt to bring the series back to earth. YOLT was the first time (followed by the realistic and believable OHMSS) then MR to be followed by FYEO...and finally DAD only to come back with the superb CR ...

bondjames

Ludovico wrote: »

DarthDimi wrote: »

At least DN, FRWL and OHMSS tried to make more sense and paid closer attention to credibility. GF and TB pushed their luck somewhat but still got away with it. YOLT just didn't care...

My big issue with it. That and the heavy use of scifi. YOLT is the first true misfire of the series.

That's true in my view as well. It hasn't dated too well because of all the green screen work also......perhaps they were too ambitious with the special effects at the time without realizing that Bond films will be watched forever.

Having said that, some of the earlier Japanese scenes are quite stunning and really allow one to get immersed in the setting (sumo/Henderson/Osato office/Toyota chase/Tanaka HQ etc. etc.). So as a travelogue Bond it's incredible but it has definitely dated.

timmer

@dimi Bond the Royal Naval Commander died.
He wasn't described as British agent. Idea was to fool Spectre, and of course they wanted to contrive a way to riff on the title, plus Saltzman liked playing with idea of Bond being dead.

Re Osato and Brandt not recognizing Bond, its not clear that they even knew who he was, so the newspaper article wouldn't have necessarily registered, if they even saw it.
Blofeld is the one with the Bond history

I would humbly say that most of your entertaining rant can be explained away, except maybe the camera filming the space action.
Blofeld was working with the Chinese . They had the tech to steal the capsules, so they did.
In pts Ling launched the hit without telling Bond.
Bond played along when he realized it was going down. He knew it was coming but just not at that exact moment. The hit team may have barged in even before Ling was ready so she just went with it. But naturally it was all contrived for maximum cinematic effect.
Henchman brought his buddy back to HQ presumably to get him patched up or just to get him out of public domain, and figure out what to do with him.
As for Tiger meeting, Aki simply leads Bond to Tiger. They want to drop Bond into the meeting because they are still not 100% sure he is 007.
They want his arrival on their terms, plus a bit of showing off of what they have tech wise.

I am basically of the opinion though that eveything in Bond movies can be explained away :D

chrisisall

DarthDimi wrote: »

At least DN, FRWL and OHMSS tried to make more sense and paid closer attention to credibility. GF and TB pushed their luck somewhat but still got away with it. YOLT just didn't care...

Then DAF joined the Flint Team.
:))

talos7

YOLT feels like a great party that's winding down, the party being the Connery era. Everybody is still there but it just doesn't feel as good as earlier in the evening.

chrisisall

talos7 wrote: »

YOLT feels like a great party that's winding down, the party being the Connery era. Everybody is still there but it just doesn't feel as good as earlier in the evening.

When the puking begins, you know the party lasted too long....
:))

talos7

:D

Murdock

For me YOLT is like that post Thanksgiving dinner relaxation period where you just want to lay on the couch and relax but before you know it, the turkey puts you to sleep. :P

TheWizardOfIce

timmer wrote: »

Re Osato and Brandt not recognizing Bond, its not clear that they even knew who he was, so the newspaper article wouldn't have necessarily registered, if they even saw it.
Blofeld is the one with the Bond history.

Except of course the bit where Blofeld says 'only one person we know used this gun. James Bond'

And they answer 'But Bond is dead. It was in all the newspapers' rather than 'Terribly sorry Ernst but I haven't the faintest idea who you are talking about.'

chrisisall

Murdock wrote: »

For me YOLT is like that post Thanksgiving dinner relaxation period where you just want to lay on the couch and relax but before you know it, the turkey puts you to sleep. :P

So right on.

ForYourEyesOnly

Yeah, You Only Live Twice gets increasingly disappointing as you get older, to be honest. I remember liking it back when I watched it for the first time, but every time you watch it, it gets worse.

DarthDimi

Try watching the films in order.
You go from films that have the complete package to films that drop some logic here and there to YOLT, a film that keeps the great music, spectacle and excitement but drops logic and plot consistence as if it were its mission.

Ludovico

bondjames wrote: »

Ludovico wrote: »

DarthDimi wrote: »

At least DN, FRWL and OHMSS tried to make more sense and paid closer attention to credibility. GF and TB pushed their luck somewhat but still got away with it. YOLT just didn't care...

My big issue with it. That and the heavy use of scifi. YOLT is the first true misfire of the series.

That's true in my view as well. It hasn't dated too well because of all the green screen work also......perhaps they were too ambitious with the special effects at the time without realizing that Bond films will be watched forever.

Having said that, some of the earlier Japanese scenes are quite stunning and really allow one to get immersed in the setting (sumo/Henderson/Osato office/Toyota chase/Tanaka HQ etc. etc.). So as a travelogue Bond it's incredible but it has definitely dated.

Most of the good things in YOLT come from the novel, including and especially the travelogue aspect. I do like the conversation between Blofeld and Bond and the big battle at the end. But the whole thing otherwise is a mess.

Dragonpol

For the Fleming Bond purist such as myself the film version of YOLT was certainly a bridge too far.

SaintMark

It is not the older movies that start to disappoint the older I get, it is the newer ones that fail to woo me.

chrisisall

Which would you all rather watch, YOLT or SF?

SaintMark

chrisisall wrote: »

Which would you all rather watch, YOLT or SF?

Yolt first and the PTS from Sf second. The rest third.

DarthDimi

Craig(SF) >> Connery(YOLT)
Newman(SF) <<< Barry(YOLT)
Story(SF) > Story(YOLT)
Script(SF) >> Script(YOLT)
Sets(SF) << Sets(YOLT)
Action(SF) < Action(YOLT)
Photography(SF) > Photography(YOLT)

2 - 3 + 1 + 2 - 2 - 1 + 1 = 0

I guess they're on par for me, thanks to Barry and Adam for the most part. ;-)