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Parts of Bond Movies that Don't Make Sense

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  • DRush76DRush76
    edited June 2012 Posts: 533
    It's not a writer's fault as much as it is characterization. Grant was smart when it came to following SPECTRE's plan for him, but when he ventured out and personally took over getting the Lektor from Bond he was unrestrained and could handle the situation how he wished. That is where the egocentricities come in, and his eventual failure. I mean, why would you give him a last request?


    Or . . . it's just bad writing on the screenwriters' parts in order to put Bond in danger . . . and get him out. I've just finished reading the 1957 novel. And what Fleming did with Bond's showdown with Grant is even more ridiculous. By the way, Grant handled assuming Nash's identity all on his own, without SPECTRE's instructions. If he was able to do that, he could have handled Bond and Tatiana's deaths a lot better and with less contrived writing.


    What was Bond and Solitaire's train route near the end of "LIVE AND LET DIE"? What journey would have taken them 17 hours by train?
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    @Murdock: Excellent job on the photo! I have never noticed that before, never! Now we actually have a logical explanation to an otherwise illogical scene!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    00Beast wrote:
    @Murdock: Excellent job on the photo! I have never noticed that before, never! Now we actually have a logical explanation to an otherwise illogical scene!

    Thank you, I tend to notice little things like that, because I've wondered where Jaws was on the plane too. I think he was hiding up in the pilots seat, then after 007 pushes the pilot out, he runs up and shoves 007 out of the plane.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    At the end of FRWL just before Rosa Klebb is about to shoot Bond Tatiana knocks the gun out of her hand and falls to the floor next to the gun. While Klebb is trying to kick Bond with the poisoned dart from her shoe Tatiana moves the gun back and forth between Bond and Klebb, trying to decide who to shoot. Why does she do this? If she wanted Bond dead, why not just let Klebb shoot him in the first place?
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    Come to think of it, why is Tatiana even considering killing Bond? Originally Tatiana is led to believe that the stealing of the Lektor is a Russian plot to give false information to the British, and that Klebb is still head of operations for SMERSH. But on the train Grant informs Bond that Klebb in fact works for SPECTRE. Wouldn't Bond have shared this information with Tatiana on the boat or after they arrived in Venice? I mean SPECTRE's plan was to kill her as well as Bond, and Klebb was fully on board with this plan. Or was Bond just so eager to see Tatiana in her nightie again at the hotel in Venice that he just "forgot" to tell her?!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Yes, Tatiana wavering back and forth at Bond and Klebb was odd. I feel she was worried what terrors would happen to her if she went against Klebb, so she thought of proving her worth to Klebb, though she was supposed to be dead anyway, if everything would have gone to plan. As for Bond not mentioning SPECTRE's plot, he killed Grant and thought that they were out of his hair for now. I don't think he expected Klebb to try and make a direct steal of the device in Venice. And maybe he did mention the plan to Tatiana, just off screen. Regardless, the scenes are quite weird, and certainly raise more questions than answers.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    Even before Tatiana knocks the gun out of Klebb's hand she recognizes her posing as the hotel maid. Klebb puts her finger to her mouth communicating to Tatiana not to say anything. If Tatiana knows that Klebb was working for SPECTRE all along, why doesn't she warn Bond as soon as she recognizes her? On the other hand, if Bond didn't tell her, wouldn't she find it odd that Klebb is trying to steel the Lektor back? Why would she be doing this? And if Bond simply neglected to tell her, wouldn't she have been curious as to what had happened to the man she had met on the train as another British agent named Nash?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    DB5 wrote:
    Even before Tatiana knocks the gun out of Klebb's hand she recognizes her posing as the hotel maid. Klebb puts her finger to her mouth communicating to Tatiana not to say anything. If Tatiana knows that Klebb was working for SPECTRE all along, why doesn't she warn Bond as soon as she recognizes her? On the other hand, if Bond didn't tell her, wouldn't she find it odd that Klebb is trying to steel the Lektor back? Why would she be doing this? And if Bond simply neglected to tell her, wouldn't she have been curious as to what had happened to the man she had met on the train as another British agent named Nash?
    In her defense, she was drugged at the time.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    .quote]
    In her defense, she was drugged at the time.
    [/quote]

    But after she came to, in the truck and on the boat, wouldn't she have asked Bond "Oh by the way, what happened? Last thing I remember we were having dinner on the train with that other British agent, Nash. Speaking of which, where is he?"

  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Just wonder, why does Mathis have an DB5 in his courtyard. Look outside his outside and on the car:
    http://screenmusings.org/QuantumOfSolace/pages/QoS_0971.htm

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @MrBond, doesn't really look like a DB5 to me. Could be, but it looks like a different car.

    (Not a car guy, so don't quote me on that.)

    And if it is, I wouldn't see why he can't own one.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    And how does Klebb know which hotel in Venice Bond and Tatiana will be staying at? Or for that matter, that they're in Venice?
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    If Baron Samedi was supposedly killed falling into the coffin of poisonous snakes how does he get to be on the train at the end just before the closing credits
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    If Baron Samedi was supposedly killed falling into the coffin of poisonous snakes how does he get to be on the train at the end just before the closing credits

    He miraculously survived the snake bits - possibly by constantly being around them and being bit, he has a type of immunity - or maybe he really is immortal.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    That was what I envisaged, in that Samedi really was the Man who could not Die, a bit like Jaws in that sense. It does round off an excellent film though, whichever way you look at it, with Samedi on the train at the end laughing away, and then McCartney and Wings come in with the title track to take things away - brilliant

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @Baltimore_007, I couldn't agree more. Pretty eerie feel to it, as well, when we see Samedi as the film ends. But, McCartney's work was great for LALD.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Thats what I like about Live and Let Die, it's all a bit sinister and keeps you on your toes, some genuine unnerving moments and for mature teenager audiences

    I suppose we could include in this here thread, in when Moore tricks Seymour with the 'Lovers' cards, how did so many of the same card come to be in her Tarot Pack?

    Unless of course, there was more than one pack to play around with, and Moore just picked up all the same card from various packs and added them together, but seems unlikely ?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    I always assumed that was what Moore did, @Baltimore_007, or found some giant pack containing all 'The Lovers' cards in it.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I think Moore found a giant pack of something in that years release ; - )


    Goodnight

    I-)
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 6,021
    BTW, speaking of LALD, who sent the card that warned Bond that Rosie was a "treacherous woman" ? Couldn't be Solitaire, she was still loyal to Mr. Big.

    The role-playing module strongly said that LALD had supernatural elements (and did its best to emulate them). I would tend to agree.
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Gerard wrote:
    BTW, speaking of LALD, who sent the card that warned Bond that Rosie was a "treacherous woman" ? Couldn't be Solitaire, she was still loyal to Mr. Big.

    The role-playing module strongly said that LALD had supernatural elements (and did its best to emulate them). I would tend to agree.

    No, she had already met Bond, the lovers card had been pulled and with her belief in the Tarot she would have sensed that Bond could get her out of her predicament with Mr Big. (in the book she makes the first move, contacting Bond and suggesting an escape via The Silver Phantom). As I see the film, Solitaire sent the card to Bond to warn him, knowing that he had to get Solitaire on his side he goes into a Tarot shop to buy a deck of 'lovers' cards, or more likely 52 sets to make up a full set of lovers. Though he should have had a bit of a turn when he discovered the pattern on the back of the cards was 007! Spooky sh*t!
  • Alan007Alan007
    Posts: 406
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    As I see the film, Solitaire sent the card to Bond to warn him, knowing that he had to get Solitaire on his side he goes into a Tarot shop to buy a deck of 'lovers' cards, or more likely 52 sets to make up a full set of lovers. Though he should have had a bit of a turn when he discovered the pattern on the back of the cards was 007! Spooky sh*t!

    I always thought he went into the tarot shop to find out what the queen of cups or whatever card it was actually meant
  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Alan007 wrote:
    Lancaster007 wrote:
    As I see the film, Solitaire sent the card to Bond to warn him, knowing that he had to get Solitaire on his side he goes into a Tarot shop to buy a deck of 'lovers' cards, or more likely 52 sets to make up a full set of lovers. Though he should have had a bit of a turn when he discovered the pattern on the back of the cards was 007! Spooky sh*t!

    I always thought he went into the tarot shop to find out what the queen of cups or whatever card it was actually meant

    Yeah, I must admit I thought that as well, but maybe when he finds out what it means, he susses that Solitaire's on his side but maybe needs a bit more of a push and gets the lovers cards? Maybe.
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    MrBond wrote:
    Just wonder, why does Mathis have an DB5 in his courtyard. Look outside his outside and on the car:
    http://screenmusings.org/QuantumOfSolace/pages/QoS_0971.htm

    It's not a DB5 the bonnets to long and the headlight bumps are the wrong shape. It lookes like a old corvette or Ferrari

  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    As far as the Baron Samedi talk from previous posts, I've not thought of him to be immortal, because that's pretty outrageous, but I have taken "The Jaws Approach", as was mentioned earlier. Samedi probably just has ridiculous luck and/or really good stamina, health, etc.
  • Arsenal02071Arsenal02071
    edited July 2012 Posts: 162
    The Klebb vs Bond scene at the end of FRWL has always annoyed me because of what was stated above. Throughout the scene Tatiana can't make her mind up: does she tell Bond? Does he help Klebb, who does she shoot? She is very unsure. Then of course she eventually shoots Klebb. Now at this point, if I was Bond, I would be very fed up about this. I wouldn't once again trust the woman that may have just chosen to kill me or go against me. Surely he can't ignore the fact that Tatiana isn't 100% on his side or at least is not 100% convincing?
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    Virage wrote:
    MrBond wrote:
    Just wonder, why does Mathis have an DB5 in his courtyard. Look outside his outside and on the car:
    http://screenmusings.org/QuantumOfSolace/pages/QoS_0971.htm


    It's not a DB5 the bonnets to long and the headlight bumps are the wrong shape. It lookes like a old corvette or Ferrari

    Jaguar XKE:

    jaguar-xke-road-tests-1.jpg
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Arsenal02071 wrote:
    The Klebb vs Bond scene at the end of FRWL has always annoyed me because of what was stated above. Throughout the scene Tatiana can't make her mind up: does she tell Bond? Does he help Klebb, who does she shoot? She is very unsure. Then of course she eventually shoots Klebb. Now at this point, if I was Bond, I would be very fed up about this. I wouldn't once again trust the woman that may have just chosen to kill me or go against me. Surely he can't ignore the fact that Tatiana isn't 100% on his side or at least is not 100% convincing?

    This is just me thinking at random, but perhaps with all of Klebb's slapping and kicking he failed to notice Tatiana's hesitant nature because he was so focused on trying to keep Klebb away.
  • DB5DB5
    Posts: 408
    "This is just me thinking at random, but perhaps with all of Klebb's slapping and kicking he failed to notice Tatiana's hesitant nature because he was so focused on trying to keep Klebb away."

    Yes, in the film it's obvious that all of Bond's concentration is on keeping Klebb from kicking him with the poison dagger in her shoe. But that still doesn't explain why Tatiana doesn't yell "Oh My God James, it's Rosa Klebb!" when she spots her as the maid in the hotel room. Assuming that Bond never told her that Klebb was in fact working for SPECTRE, it's obvious that Tanya is still very much a Russian, although you'd think she'd be curious as to why Klebb is stealing the Lektor back after being told that the purpose of the mission was "to give false information to the enemy."
  • Arsenal02071Arsenal02071
    Posts: 162
    DB5 wrote:
    "This is just me thinking at random, but perhaps with all of Klebb's slapping and kicking he failed to notice Tatiana's hesitant nature because he was so focused on trying to keep Klebb away."

    Yes, in the film it's obvious that all of Bond's concentration is on keeping Klebb from kicking him with the poison dagger in her shoe. But that still doesn't explain why Tatiana doesn't yell "Oh My God James, it's Rosa Klebb!" when she spots her as the maid in the hotel room. Assuming that Bond never told her that Klebb was in fact working for SPECTRE, it's obvious that Tanya is still very much a Russian, although you'd think she'd be curious as to why Klebb is stealing the Lektor back after being told that the purpose of the mission was "to give false information to the enemy."

    That was my point exactly. Why is Tatiana hesitating at all? I recall that she calls Klebb a "horrible woman" right after she kills her. If she thinks so lowly of her, why does she debate whether or not to help her? I suppose Bond may think that Tatiana was held at gunpoint when Klebb entered. It's a strange scene for sure.
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