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How would you change Bond?

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  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    With all the anti-smoking associations, adverts, warnings there is, I don't think Bond lighting a cigarette will make the smoking rate go up 50%... Bond smoking is harmless today - with this PC-comformist world and education, it won't be a couple of cigarette that will change anything. It is ridiculous to assume that in 2012, if Bond smokes a cig, millions of kids who will see the film will suddenly start smoking aswell...
    It is indeed ridiculous, but that's beyond the point. Smoking was "cool, and classy" back then. Now it's a dirty and disgusting habit. It just doesn't fit anymore. Combined to the fact that Craig's Bond is a believable killer, meaning he actually is built and in shape, build a-la Bourne some say, rather than a piece of molasses that a 13 year old emo kid could beat up like Brosnan or Moore, having Bond smoke just wouldn't make any more sense.

    Forget the whole "PC-comformist" issue, it's quite passé. If you want Bond to be self destructive, at least give him something that'll provide an edge rather than hinder him. Having Bond smoke is just plain dumb, having him pop up tons of pills to avoid sleep, keep him on a high, that at least makes some sense.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Craig DID say that quitting smoking was one of the best things that had helped get him ripped like he is, so I suppose, on paper, it does seem counter-productive to have Bond look like that AND smoke.

    Not saying regular smokers could never be ripped, but if Craig went through all the trouble to quit, no real sense in making him smoke for the character.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Forget the whole "PC-comformist" issue, it's quite passé.
    Explaining me why Mad Men is so popular than ? How can a series where there is constant smoking... set in the 1960's, with constant anti-feminist comments be so popular ? How can critics say it is 'the most retro series today, but the most modern 60's series' ? If Mad Men can be so popular while doing so much anti-PC things, why can't Bond do the same with a simple cigarette ?
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited July 2011 Posts: 1,986
    The whole point of the that the "elite" want him to smoke is about them finding it non-conformist and Bond to be self destructive. Bond indeed is self destructive which can be showed in many other ways, and the whole conformist thing is indeed annoying, it has been in the last 20+ years, to have those terrible "Bond equal" characters, yes, that's all true, but again, it's a question of style. Smoking isn't cool anymore, it's dirty and stupid.
    Forget the whole "PC-comformist" issue, it's quite passé.
    Explaining me why Mad Men is so popular than ? How can a series where there is constant smoking... set in the 1960's, with constant anti-feminist comments be so popular ? How can critics say it is 'the most retro series today, but the most modern 60's series' ? If Mad Men can be so popular while doing so much anti-PC things, why can't Bond do the same with a simple cigarette ?
    Mad Men: 1960s
    Bond: 2010s

    Game set and match ;) Smoking doesn't work anymore, it's not cool anymore, it makes very little sense for the character in today's society.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    That's your opinion, though. Some people find smoking to be very cool. Sure, many will agree that it is a dirty, filthy habit, but whether it is 'cool' or not is merely an opinion.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited July 2011 Posts: 1,986
    That's your opinion, though. Some people find smoking to be very cool. Sure, many will agree that it is a dirty, filthy habit, but whether it is 'cool' or not is merely an opinion.
    Yes, those people are called stupid kids and followers. ;)
    The whole "cool" aspect is about society's view about the subject. It just isn't anymore. It hasn't been in a long time.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,723

    Mad Men: 1960s
    Bond: 2010s
    That serves my point even more... You are telling me that in 2011, a period piece set in the 1960's, with constant smoking and anti-feminist comments can be hugely popular, but a present day film that features ONE occurence of smoking will be looked down upon ?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Once again, an opinion. I'm neither a 'kid' nor a 'follower'. Sure, it's always cool watching a film character smoke, because it gets me in the mood to do so. But these days, I smoke because I enjoy doing so.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited July 2011 Posts: 1,986

    Mad Men: 1960s
    Bond: 2010s
    That serves my point even more... You are telling me that in 2011, a period piece set in the 1960's, with constant smoking and anti-feminist comments can be hugely popular, but a present day film that features ONE occurence of smoking will be looked down upon ?
    I'm saying that people's view on a period piece is drastically different than non period pieces. You know this, check the reaction to Mad Men. People like the show because it's believable and well set in its time.

    Bond is now in the 2010s, and in this society, nevermind the whole "PC people don't want Bond to smoke because it wouldn't be PC", smoking is basically accepted by society as being a dirty vice that weak willed people get into. Having Bond smoke would be like having him get beaten by a woman or cause the ladies to roll their eyes and turn him down. Just doesn't fit anymore.

    Compared to having 1960's Bond smoke was cool and classy, he could likely get to bring home a nice bird for the night.

    If you want to tick off the conformist PC crowd, have Bond do something else, something that actually makes sense for his character.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Well I don't know about all of that. I don't find myself weak-willed in the slightest. I won't be giving in to cocaine, heroin, or acid any day soon, so I'm good.
  • AgentFaeAgentFae
    edited July 2011 Posts: 92
    Luds said: Smoking was "cool, and classy" back then.

    And I say: It still is when your a teenager. Then its all 'rebellious' and 'cool'
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @AgentFae To some. Me, I just enjoy it, and I'm past being a 'rebellious' teenager.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    And I say: It still is when your a teenager. Then its all 'rebellious' and 'cool'
    I say rubbish to that.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    And I say: It still is when your a teenager. Then its all 'rebellious' and 'cool'
    I say rubbish to that.
    As do I. Re-watched DN today, feels like a totally different Bond film, as EVERYONE is smoking.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2011 Posts: 6,385
    [quote]She is very admirable and I love that her and Bond only share a "I respect you and appreciate all you've done" kiss, but they never had sex.

    While I get that Forster was going for something different with the Bond girl, I didn't think this worked. Bond has sex with Fields, so why not Camille? Because he had a deeper bond with her? Meh.

  • timmertimmer
    Posts: 4,622
    I'd grow him another 4 inches. Get him a proper black toupee (maybe Sean's is still lying about) or a dye job. A little plastic surgery to maybe find the right Bond face.

    That should do it. Oh and burn the blue bathing suit.
  • HenryJonesVictorHenryJonesVictor
    edited November 2017 Posts: 236
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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    I would love for Bond to start smoking again. I know it's counter-productive and negates itself: Craig is built and does a lot of action, and it wouldn't make sense if he smoked. But, he does smoke in other films, and I believe he used to in real life, so he would be the best one to try it out again.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I respect Dan's commitment to quite, and don't think we need Bond smoking. It doesn't add anything to the film of any importance after all.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I respect Dan's commitment to quite, and don't think we need Bond smoking. It doesn't add anything to the film of any importance after all.

    I just think after I started to smoke, I appreciated seeing smoking in films. I'm not sure how that changed in my mind, but it did, and now that smoking is completely different in terms of a public opinion as it was thirty to fifty years ago, it's always interesting to see, for me.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Although it does not bother me whether he does or does not? I would rather Bond not smoke. I would love to see him shine more in terms knowledge! Like in the good old days of Connery and Moore when they had a bit of banter with M! Whether that be Jewels, alcohol, current affairs. Bond would catch out his boss with more intelligence than he gave him credit for! lol!

    I think if Skyfall Lodge may also reveal a little more about the man we all love so lets see what the film gives us? There is no need to mention Vesper as he already has the answers he was looking for as he acknowledged to M at the end of QOS.

    However i do in future movies? Possibly 2? To resolve the Quantum issue within Craig's tenure as 007.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2012 Posts: 15,723
    What I would love to see back is the old M office, with the thick red door and big red telephone ! Honestly whenever I watch an old Bond film, and the action goes into M's cozy office, I always want to sink in my chair, with a glass of alcohol and a cigarette !
  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    edited July 2012 Posts: 2,782
    I'd make Bond convert to Islam. I think that would be a nice twist in today's world and give his character more layers to play with.

    So that would also mean no booze and no smoking and no sex unless he marries the girl or has a temporary marriage called a neeka.

    Could be good fun.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    What I would love to see back is the old M office, with the thick red door and big red telephone ! Honestly whenever I watch an old Bond film, and the action goes into M's cozy office, I always want to sink in my chair, with a glass of alcohol and a cigarette !

    Very well said, and I definitely agree!
  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    Posts: 1,143
    forgotmyusername wrote:
    I'd make Bond convert to Islam. I think that would be a nice twist in today's world and give his character more layers to play with.

    So that would also mean no booze and no smoking and no sex unless he marries the girl or has a temporary marriage called a neeka.

    Could be good fun.

    Could be fun? In what possible way?
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    edited July 2012 Posts: 5,745
    I want to see the details in the Fleming books that made Bond so interesting on film. You get into Bond's thoughts in the books, but not so much in the films.

    Moonraker is the prime example. We learn so much about Bond's opinions, how he does his work, how he sizes people up, and so much more. It's more interesting to read than 'Bond did that, then that, then won." I want to know how, why, and what he was thinking.

    Moonraker has scenes like

    Bond sitting in his office (which would be nice to see) with his own secretary (well, the secretary to the 00's. No it's not the same as Moneypenny, she's M's). He sifts through files and determines which need to be shared with his fellow agents. He is also very self conscious and loyal to M in the books. He tries his hardest to impress M, and avoids anything he knows M doesn't like. Bring back the traditional mission briefings and you have all this.

    Instead of brinking back moneypenny, bring in Bond's personal secretary (I forget her name) and create a new, but similar, character that's still true to the books. Seeing Bond research and train for his mission would be quite interesting on film.

    I want to see:
    -Bond in sport (can be driving his aston on a country road for fun)
    -Bond on holiday, extended (not just him in bed with a girl and the phone rings..)
    -Bond studying for his new assignment, going over files and training 'down stairs' as he does in Moonraker, followed by
    -traditional M briefings, where Bond is tested of his knowledge
    -Bond's home
    -Bond at the country club (with M, as in the book perhaps)

    Essentially focus the films more on Bond, the man, not the hero.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited July 2012 Posts: 12,837
    I basically want what alot of other people have said, I want to see Bond doing some more normal stuff, like going for a drink, driving his car for fun, etc. I wouldn't want half a film full of that stuff but 5-10 mins of it would be great.

    Also, bring back some gadgets (SF seems to be delivering on that front though).

    I also wouldn't mind him smoking again, although maybe not for Craig because he's a more physical Bond.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    Even a woman that Bond beds who is completely unrelated to the story would be nice, like the Danish professor in TND. Just Bond doing something outside of the mission and relaxing, perhaps doing his routine at his place or something.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    myworldisenough wrote:
    forgotmyusername wrote:
    I'd make Bond convert to Islam. I think that would be a nice twist in today's world and give his character more layers to play with.

    So that would also mean no booze and no smoking and no sex unless he marries the girl or has a temporary marriage called a neeka.

    Could be good fun.

    Could be fun? In what possible way?

    Sarcasm is your friend!
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited July 2012 Posts: 13,356
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Bond on holiday, extended (not just him in bed with a girl and the phone rings..)

    The short story The Hildebrand Rarity takes place whilst Bond is on holiday. The events of the story unfold as the circumstance of something Bond does - or agrees too. That in inself makes the story a little different, Bond is not on an official assignment. You must read it if you haven't yet, @JWESTBROOK.

    All very valid points by the way. The films need to start slowly bringing these elements either back in, or in for the first time. Skyfall feels like the first step in a way, that gives me some promise for the future of Bond on film.
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