No Time To Die: Production Diary

peter

@bondjames , I'd like to see Bond watching his own funeral ceremony from afar (body wasn't recovered; but all evidence points to his death); he's battered and a shell of himself.

And he's alone.

It's MP who sees this lonely figure, all dressed in black, limping over a hill and disappearing. She knows it's Bond, but, like I said above, lets him go.

bondjames

peter wrote: »

@bondjames , I'd like to see Bond watching his own funeral ceremony from afar (body wasn't recovered; but all evidence points to his death); he's battered and a shell of himself.

And he's alone.

It's MP who sees this lonely figure, all dressed in black, limping over a hill and disappearing. She knows it's Bond, but, like I said above, lets him go.

Yes @peter, that's not a bad way to end things. I'm not too keen on Camille's return though and I don't see them doing this, given QoS is still seen as a failure in the Craig era by the masses. However, your plot idea isn't bad actually.

I really believe that EON (followers that they now are) saw an option for DC's return via Logan's melancholy story and ending. That film did reasonably big box office despite being a downer, and I'm quite sure this is what Babs used to lure DC back (while also having evidence for MGM that such an approach would generate reasonable ticket sales). As I've mentioned previously this is close to my worst nightmare, but I'll live with it, albeit very reluctantly.

Shardlake wrote: »

I am still keen on my idea of a tense dialogue heavy PTS with Bond visting Blofeld in prison though, something akin to CR in not being action heavy or epic, just both actors getting a chance to deliver on the promise that we expected with putting these 2 actors together.

I think DC and CW will realise they've got something to prove this time round.

@Shardlake, I'd take it one step further, and would actually like a Silence of the Lambs type scenario, with a rogue SPECTRE faction out there doing damage and Bond having to get intel from Blofeld in prison to track them down (Blofeld could even be the main suspect). There could be some great acting opportunities here.

Shardlake

bondjames wrote: »

peter wrote: »

@bondjames , I'd like to see Bond watching his own funeral ceremony from afar (body wasn't recovered; but all evidence points to his death); he's battered and a shell of himself.

And he's alone.

It's MP who sees this lonely figure, all dressed in black, limping over a hill and disappearing. She knows it's Bond, but, like I said above, lets him go.

Yes @peter, that's not a bad way to end things. I'm not too keen on Camille's return though and I don't see them doing this, given QoS is still seen as a failure in the Craig era by the masses. However, your plot idea isn't bad actually.

I really believe that EON (followers that they now are) saw an option for DC's return via Logan's melancholy story and ending. That film did reasonably big box office despite being a downer, and I'm quite sure this is what Babs used to lure DC back (while also having evidence for MGM that such an approach would generate reasonable ticket sales). As I've mentioned previously this is close to my worst nightmare, but I'll live with it, albeit very reluctantly.

Shardlake wrote: »

I am still keen on my idea of a tense dialogue heavy PTS with Bond visting Blofeld in prison though, something akin to CR in not being action heavy or epic, just both actors getting a chance to deliver on the promise that we expected with putting these 2 actors together.

I think DC and CW will realise they've got something to prove this time round.

@Shardlake, I'd take it one step further, and would actually like a Silence of the Lambs type scenario, with a rogue SPECTRE faction out there doing damage and Bond having to get intel from Blofeld in prison to track them down (Blofeld could even be the main suspect). There could be some great acting opportunities here.

I did propose something like that with SOTL vibe like you suggest, it could work as a PTS and even deal with Madeline with ESB trying to push Bond's buttons with a comment about it and Bond just throwing it off, there we are done with that element.

Using it as a PTS you can in that scene like you say that Bond is there to get intel and ESB will deliver some but it obviously being a trap but then Bond knows that and like FRWL Bond can't resist the challenge. He knows to get an in on SPECTRE (who have been all over the globe getting up to mischief even with their leader behind bars) he has to take the bait knowing he's being set up.

Obviously ESB is pulling the strings but there is no proof, it could be a real mind games type scene between the two.

Lead into the credits and Bond goes to M with the information and he's sent out to investigate, we get a mission that way but also can keep it in the tone of the DC era. You can have a traditional MP meet up before going into the office, restrict team MI6 to this segment of the film. Only having them maybe pop later on but in London and not in the field, Fiennes M staying behind his desk for the film pretty much.

You then half way mark or sooner have a big set piece not possibly involving Bond (he can be somewhere else on the globe following leads), where Ernst escapes, if he's locked up he's got to escape at some point anyway to resolve it.

bondjames

I like it @Shardlake. Your approach infers that DC never left the service, but rather was taking some 'overdue holiday' with Madeleine, while @peter 's suggestion instead plays on DC having left the service and starting B25 some time after SP.

Either will work, although I'd prefer a more direct follow up rather than letting 'movie' time elapse. Why? Well because I believe DC's direct timeline iteration is wreaking havoc with the Bond indefinite timeline of yore, and would rather they isolate B25 within the same timeline scenario of SP as a finale, in the interests of posterity.

fjdinardo

Oh god no Camille please. I take Swann over her any day.

Shardlake

@bondjames I agree keep this timeline cut off from future films.

They need to realise that this kind of thing can make the changing of the guard an issue, make the films to tyed together and showing time passing as it has in the DC era and you run the risk of rebooting each time the actor changes.

Make the next era start with an established Bond, you can have some connective tissue between the films but nothing like the DC era, who knows when the next actor might decide he's had enough, this way changing the actor can then pick up where the last left off.

That way you can keep the same MI6 team, Felix Leiter if he's part of the next version etc and only the actor playing Bond is different.

peter

I like it @Shardlake and @bondjames, and, like both of you, I had, at one point, also mentioned a Lecter kind of vibe to ESB.

If Bond never left the service, i'd be happy with that too (although a side of me likes to see, and read from the novels, Bond being frustratingly bored and indulging his hedonistic personality (drinking, gambling, married mistresses); DC's the perfect actor to pull off that side of Bond, as we saw a bit of this in SF (chewing on pain killers (swapping out benzedrine for oxi??), playing drinking games (I would assume for money), and staying off the grid with a lovely mistress).

Shardlake

peter wrote: »

I like it @Shardlake and @bondjames, and, like both of you, I had, at one point, also mentioned a Lecter kind of vibe to ESB.

If Bond never left the service, i'd be happy with that too (although a side of me likes to see, and read from the novels, Bond being frustratingly bored and indulging his hedonistic personality (drinking, gambling, married mistresses); DC's the perfect actor to pull off that side of Bond, as we saw a bit of this in SF (chewing on pain killers (swapping out benzedrine for oxi??), playing drinking games (I would assume for money), and staying off the grid with a lovely mistress).

I do like that idea and like you say DC would be great for putting across a scene like but how would you deal with a PTS in that scenario?

peter

Maybe it is a PTS without Bond, @Shardlake? Instead, it's ESB being let out of solitary to meet with his monthly visitor (Irma Bunt); she updates him on the progress of a new operation, and perhaps that they have also tracked down Bond as well. A passing "the trap has been sent" piece of dialogue.

Before Blofeld is led back to his cell, there's one more thing that Bunt tells him: the guard that's been taking care of him in prison, and is on the SPECTRE pay roll, is playing both sides and must be eliminated at once.

We see this guard come and collect Blofeld to take back to his isolated cell. And on the way, the tension builds as Blofeld confronts the man on his indiscretions. He attacks the guard, literally ripping his face away from his skull using his teeth, nails and anything else he can get his hands on. Revenge dished out, cold...

Shardlake

peter wrote: »

Maybe it is a PTS without Bond, @Shardlake? Instead, it's ESB being let out of solitary to meet with his monthly visitor (Irma Bunt); she updates him on the progress of a new operation, and perhaps that they have also tracked down Bond as well. A passing "the trap has been sent" piece of dialogue.

Before Blofeld is led back to his cell, there's one more thing that Bunt tells him: the guard that's been taking care of him in prison, and is on the SPECTRE pay roll, is playing both sides and must be eliminated at once.

We see this guard come and collect Blofeld to take back to his isolated cell. And on the way, the tension builds as Blofeld confronts the man on his indiscretions. He attacks the guard, literally ripping his face away from his skull using his teeth, nails and anything else he can get his hands on. Revenge dished out, cold...

Maybe some of us should have a go at a scene at a time and piece our version of Bond 25 together for a bit of fun.

Anyway I'm off to watch Logan Lucky now but some interesting ideas out there.

Walecs

bondjames wrote: »

Some have argued that it's Swann who does the falling in SP. Bond is just along for the ride and is using her as his ticket out of his miserable life. Sadly, Smith's pathetic wailing paints a different and contradictory narrative, so I can appreciate the confusion.

I'm afraid that although I agree with you, we're going to have to wait for the recast before they get things back in order. B25 will continue with DC Bond's journey, including more introspection.

It was Mendes who actually requested a love song.

peter

I look forward to what you think of LL @shardlake (without ruining anyting-- acting was great, it looked amazing, awesome music/soundtrack-- however I was disappointed)

peter

@Walecs, that doesn't surprise me. I think creatively, Mendes was all over the map. He did have a lot of stress on him to come up with the goods, and then, of course, it seems like everything came off the rails with the Logan script. They didn't recover from there, IMO.

The one thing I will lay at the feet of Mendes: why did he take the grit out of Dan's Bond?

Whoever is directing B25, I have a feeling we will be getting a return to this; to a man that bleeds after a vicious fight. A man that has to cover and conceal the wounds of battle. I very much welcome this return.

JamesBondKenya

peter wrote: »

@JamesBondKenya, remember, Camille is Bolivian Intelligence... she's in the spy game... That's what can bring them together again... I had written earlier, on this, or another thread, that, when B25 picks up, the film-time line will be seven years after the events of SP (SP, although released in '15, actually picked up from the events in SF mere months later (2012)).

What's Bond been doing for six-seven years? Has he been out of the service for that long?... And if so, what would a man like that be doing?... Without mentioning Swann, DC Bond, like the literary one, would be gambling and drinking most hours away, while indulging in wealthy, married wives for some uncomplicated affairs.

Meanwhile, what's Blofeld been doing for the six-to-seven years he's been incarcerated? I'd like to see that he's evolved into a wild, violent animal, as his megalomaniacal ambitions have grown to perverse levels. He's so dangerous, he's been locked in solitary.

However, he's still been dripping out orders to his SP operatives, keeping the organization very much running, and biding his time... Solitary confinement gives a man like this time to plan "the Big One", down to the final "T".

How does he get bust out of jail?... Perhaps there's a special hearing? The government is deciding to transfer him to another facility (a mental institution?)-- and this is when his break-out occurs.

Once he escapes, he must strike back at the people responsible for his capture, including Bond. As he may explain at one point-- SPECTRE stands for SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion.

He wants to go heavy on the revenge and plots some kind of ticking-time bomb event, to shake the bushes of his enemies, as it were...

Bond, living on some far away island is living off the grid, but it's Camille that tracks him down. For whatever reason, she knows Bond can help her. She's the catalyst that pulls him into the bigger story.

Bond knows now that his country needs him, and, after initially turning his back on everything Camille says, is dragged back into the service. This is his call to adventure, and he knows it could very well be his last (as the stakes have to be high; and he's been out of the service for far too long).

He and Camille work together as spies, tracking down Blofeld and trying to stop whatever the Big Plan is, and, through this adventure, feelings from QoS bubble to the surface.

Maybe by the beginning of ACT THREE, Bond and Camille actually thwart Blofeld's Big Plan, and the story, they think, is over. Celebrating by indulging in each other, they don't realize that Blofeld's lead assassin, Irma Bunt, has tracked them down and attempts to kill them.

She successfully takes out Camille, with Bond barely escaping. This opens up a third act where Bond tracks down Blofeld to exact his revenge...

I don't know, JBKenya, it's just a swirling idea, held together by very loose strings, that is beginning to sound like bad fan-lit! In the end, i'd love to NEVER hear about Maddy ever again, and, since I love Camille, I'd love to see her return, as I would Felix Leiter. I'd also like to see a massive plan coming from Blofeld, who's become sick and twisted from years in solitary, but his evil plans have only grown larger and more sophisticated, and more sadistic. A ticking time bomb-type of plan where every second has to count. And finally, DC Bond ends by taking out his nemesis once and for all, and, at the end, he may watch his own funeral, since everyone thought he did die in this last mission.

MP, at the ceremony, feels eyes on her. Turning around, she catches a glimpse of a battered figure limping away and disappearing over a hill. She knows it's Bond, but lets him go.

Close off the Craig era and move into the new era...

Forget me saying fan-lit... This is more like fan-porn... Anyways, those are some things I'd like to see, but it also shows how bloody difficult it is to come up with a good story. So best of luck goes out to P&W and the script doctors that will surely be on board before too long!!

This is pretty great. Bond could be like retired and hes hanging around casinos and then hes pulled back in for one last mission. There could be a pts with blofeld. I dont know about bond faking his death seems a bit DKR. They should bring back Irma bunt for sure though. Would this film be like 3 hours though there seems to be a lot going on and would that be a good or bad thing?

peter

All fantasy talk, @JamesBondKenya(!)..., but, I would imagine a story like this would be a good 220-230... Is that a good or bad thing? That all depends on the execution of the script-- are there obstacles and stakes throughout? As the story progresses, are things becoming harder and harder for our hero? Does one scene catapult the next sequence of scenes? Are there strong characters and motivations for each?

And then, since film is a director's medium, is he moving the story forward at all times?

I'm sure you've had that experience, JBKenya, where a film is so poorly executed, its short running time feels like a slog, and then there are films so well done, that its long running time felt like a breeze...

It's all in the execution.

It starts with the script as the foundation, then it's up to the director and his team to take it home!

Creasy47

Execution/pacing decides it all, in my opinion. As you said @peter, I've seen horrid 90 minute films that take ages to finish, and three-hour sprawling epics that fly by at the snap of a finger due to their engagement.

peter

Unfortunately, too many of the former, eh @Creasy47 -- especially recently...

bondjames

I have to say that I never find SP too long. I just find it boring and uneventful (and attrociously poorly written), but am quite surprised that it's as long as it is whenever I view it. I think the visuals save it.

peter

I love so many individual scenes in SP, the composition of them, lighting, costume... but, strung together it is a beautiful mess. I agree @bondjames, the visuals save it.

However, as I mentioned to you before, try and FF through all the Nine Eyes scenes-- it makes for a more enjoyable viewing.

Even as a visual, bjames, the Nine Eyes scenes seem flat compared to the rest of the film; flat and ugly, which can't be said about the other scenes.

ClarkDevlin

Storytelling-wise, Spectre is awfully weak. But, it is the said "Classic Bond" segments and collective of scenes in it that makes me appreciate it too much. I especially love the fact that Craig's Bond started to deliver those one-liner jokes that have gone missing from the Bond film series for way too long.

bondjames

I agree on the Nine Eyes scenes being visually flat @peter. The office exterior (CGI-fest) and interior do nothing for me either. I will definitely fast forward through that on my next viewing out of necessity.

I find I much prefer the film if I just stop it after the 'Superman' moment at Blofeld HQ as well. That record holding explosion could easily serve as an 'imperfect' finale. The whole London bit is just ridiculous and tacked on imho.

peter

True @bondjames , the London finale is terrible (and cheap, from the soundstage, to the promo-pics of the actors; and the entirely stupid proposition that ESB and his BFF would have time to set up this gimmicky imagery in the first place!)

I watched SP a couple weeks ago. Tried to watch this "climax"; aborted my attempt, and; FF'd to the final scenes with Q and Bond, and Bond driving away with Maddy.

Walecs

bondjames wrote: »

I have to say that I never find SP too long. I just find it boring and uneventful (and attrociously poorly written), but am quite surprised that it's as long as it is whenever I view it. I think the visuals save it.

The only scenes which truly bore me are the ones regarding M, Denbigh and the rest of the scooby gang. If it were for me, I'd actually keep the M-Bond conversation right after the title sequence and would take everything else out of the movie.

I wish more time had been spent on developing Bond and Madeleine's relationship and setting up Blofeld as a proper villain, instead.

DoctorNo

Walecs wrote: »

I wish more time had been spent on developing Bond and Madeleine's relationship and setting up Blofeld as a proper villain, instead.

Totally agree. That was the movie that should've been along with including more with Mr White. That relationship with Blofeld and in relation, Madeline, should have been developed ignoring the brother angle for Bond altogether.

Also, Rogue Nation has a much better and exciting London finale (at a fraction the cost) and that's what they should observe and do. SP would've been so much better by ending it w/Bond returning to stop C himself and have Hinx return for a climactic fight. Have Madeline actually say goodbye for the reasons she stated, 'can't go back to that way of life,' and leave Bond conflicted but finishing the job instead of making the retirement choice. Then show Blofeld in a quick scene showing he's alive and well and plotting, avoiding another painful "brother" episode and the rest.

Goldeneye0094

Guys let"s stay on bond 25 shall we

Thunderfinger

Goldeneye0094 wrote: »

Guys let"s stay on bond 25 shall we

They probably count NSNA.

JamesBondKenya

peter wrote: »

True @bondjames , the London finale is terrible (and cheap, from the soundstage, to the promo-pics of the actors; and the entirely stupid proposition that ESB and his BFF would have time to set up this gimmicky imagery in the first place!)

I watched SP a couple weeks ago. Tried to watch this "climax"; aborted my attempt, and; FF'd to the final scenes with Q and Bond, and Bond driving away with Maddy.

I think there is a good film inside spectre, maybe a fan edit.... but the plot is shit regardless and that cant be fixed

PanchitoPistoles

JamesBondKenya wrote: »

I think there is a good film inside spectre, maybe a fan edit....

Now I really want a Spectre Minus Blofeld fanedit!

RC7

peter wrote: »

True @bondjames , the London finale is terrible (and cheap, from the soundstage, to the promo-pics of the actors; and the entirely stupid proposition that ESB and his BFF would have time to set up this gimmicky imagery in the first place!)

I watched SP a couple weeks ago. Tried to watch this "climax"; aborted my attempt, and; FF'd to the final scenes with Q and Bond, and Bond driving away with Maddy.

Bond driving away with Maddy is awful in my opinion. Don't have much of a problem with the London scenes otherwise. The 'damsel in distress' frippery is lazy, but the rest of it I just find, if you'll excuse my French, f***ing weird. Which I'll take over boring. That end scene with the DB5 just doesn't feel earned. If you compare it with CR, where they truly earn the right to let rip, it's borderline embarrassing.

peter

The ending to SP, I agree, is quite anti-climactic, but I'm like a john who keeps going back to the prostitute looking for love, only to find the end result is always the same: empty and meaningless.

I then curl into a fetal position crying tears of self-loathing for going back to this well over and over to always the same result.

That's what SP does to me... But I know I will watch it all over again one day, hoping against all hope that it has changed.

And now I weep....

All seriousness, yes @RC7, it is unearned-- I'm just a sucker for hearing the Bond theme playing as the DB5 growls awake...

But that's like much of the film: I don't think Bond earns the trust of Q risking his job, nor the trust of MP to be his "mole", also at the risk of her job (considering Bond was "grounded"); I don't think he earned Madeleine's heart, nor did he earn his "recovery" from torture. There are so many areas of what appears to be absolute laziness in the film, the worst offender of all, being it's lack of tension.

But I should add, I do enjoy going back to this film; I love so many individual scenes, with all their different tones, to the way they look and are executed. But individual scenes do not make a great film. My fondness for SP is because it is this beautiful mess. I realize it's not everyone's cup of tea, and I absolutely agree with most of its criticisms.

But beneath the faults, there's some really lovely work being done, @RC7 .