No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 4,617
    Is there not potential to fill in the gaps with spin offs whilst the Bonds are being made, like Disney but perhaps every 2 years?

    It gives room for experimentation, lower budgets, younger directors but hopefully would not effect the main franchise.

    If you look at the way that Rogue One tapped into an existing plot/time line. The potential for spin off characters/plot connections within the Bond universe is massive.

    Gets the creative juices flowing.

    Young Bond and Young Blofeld ? (sorry, now that is a silly idea)
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,119
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    NSGW wrote: »

    Great find @NSGW! This could definitely explain why we are still waiting on a distribution deal. Seems like a lot more could potentially be at stake than first thought.

    And not only that. this especially worries me:
    In the world of Lucasfilm and Marvel, Bond feels really underdeveloped,” says someone familiar with the bidding process. Sources say that, along with the tech giants, Chinese companies could come in from the cold to pursue not just movie rights but massive licensing rights that could push deals into the billions of dollars.

    This news ties in with some of the other news articles that were saying Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson are willing to sell off Bond in its entirety. Which I wouldn't like to see happening. It also shows that those companies in the race to distribute the next Bond films, don't want to be be treated the way Sony was:
    In an email leaked during the Sony hack, Andrew Gumpert, former head of Sony’s business affairs, predicted that if Spectre grossed $1.1 billion, with a budget of $250 million to $275 million, the studio would earn just $35 million. Spectre grossed $200 million-plus shy of that estimate.

    And that means that the negotiations for the distribution rights could take much longer than previously anticipated. It also shows that companies involved, like Warner, Universal and now Amazon and Apple, are asking much much more from both MGM and EON Productions, potentially risking the fate of the EON family business. Not to mention the fact that Bond could be 'Disney-fied' like Star Wars, meaning that new distributors want more, want spin-offs, want more marketing, want TV, want more China, basically act like Elliot Carver.

    Because make no mistake, in the world of Lucasfilm and Marvel, I prefer Bond to stay heavily underdeveloped.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    NSGW wrote: »

    Great find @NSGW! This could definitely explain why we are still waiting on a distribution deal. Seems like a lot more could potentially be at stake than first thought.

    Question for people regard this - where do you stand? With EON's more traditional stance, or a more exploitative business model? On the one hand - a film released every few years, on the other - the potential for ancillary channels to deliver more Bond related media.
    If it was the 'traditional' stance of a film every two years as in the past, then I stand with EON.

    With the current model of every 3 or 4 years, I stand with the more exploitative business model.

    As far as I'm concerned, the way they approach it now is quite different from the more mechanized approach they followed under the Cubby regime (with a more predictable outcome), which is what I preferred.

    I'm not sure if it'll ever return to two, but I agree that four is a stretch. I'm certainly not averse to more consistency - if that guarantees a three yearly cycle max.

    Bond is a strange one because in terms of brand it is on a par with Marvel and SW as outlined in the article, but a lot of that is down to heritage and to some extent reliability. I don't think the world is crying out for any more Bond than we currently get and in terms of a young fan base, which is what you need to facilitate a constant flow of product, it doesn't exist on the same level.
    That's true, and there is a huge risk that they would have to water down the product further in order to accommodate today's fans if they go down the more exploitative route, which I'd rather not see.

    Ultimately as you say, Bond is unique. He's almost an anomaly in today's world of sanitized heroes. An outlier. It's not just the essential Britishness, although that's a large part of it. There's something more, and as you note a lot of that is due to heritage. That's what makes him interesting and that's what keeps viewers coming back.

    Still, I preferred the predictability of the Cubby era. I liked the way they executed back then and if they made mistakes, we only had to wait a few years for a new one to wash the past away. As I've said, I'd like them to dump the direct connectivity going forward as well.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    edited September 2017 Posts: 2,540
    RC7 wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    NSGW wrote: »

    Great find @NSGW! This could definitely explain why we are still waiting on a distribution deal. Seems like a lot more could potentially be at stake than first thought.

    Question for people regard this - where do you stand? With EON's more traditional stance, or a more exploitative business model? On the one hand - a film released every few years, on the other - the potential for ancillary channels to deliver more Bond related media.

    Of all the franchises to milk, Bond is at the bottom of peoples interests. Casual fans, general cinema goers and even die hard Bond fans just don't care enough about the semi-regular characters for an expanded universe to be a success. Especially not now, when studios seem to be completely blind to the current state of franchise fatigue.

    Having said that, the museum exhibitions have been successful. I wouldn't mind them considering an official Bond museum in London somewhere, with more touring exhibitions. The potential for more touring exhibitions, film screenings, special events, massive store etc. is worth considering.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    No idea of the article is accurate but you cant fault the logic. The Bond universe is under exploited. Even on this forum, we have discussed many ways to expand the Bond universe. As with Star Wars etc, once you create not only a character but a fictional World, there is money to be made when fans want to immerse themselves in that World plus there is potential to make the World more relevant to new markets (we have discussed a female double 0 agent for example).

    I just can't imagine there's any way to expand the Bond universe. People just don't care enough about Felix Leiter, MP and such. I mean they can certainly try but they will just as certainly fail. Big time!

    I agree, if SW fans were sceptical about a Solo spin-off, who is going to give two turds about an 'M' origin?
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    NSGW wrote: »

    Great find @NSGW! This could definitely explain why we are still waiting on a distribution deal. Seems like a lot more could potentially be at stake than first thought.

    Question for people regard this - where do you stand? With EON's more traditional stance, or a more exploitative business model? On the one hand - a film released every few years, on the other - the potential for ancillary channels to deliver more Bond related media.
    If it was the 'traditional' stance of a film every two years as in the past, then I stand with EON.

    With the current model of every 3 or 4 years, I stand with the more exploitative business model.

    As far as I'm concerned, the way they approach it now is quite different from the more mechanized approach they followed under the Cubby regime (with a more predictable outcome), which is what I preferred.

    I'm not sure if it'll ever return to two, but I agree that four is a stretch. I'm certainly not averse to more consistency - if that guarantees a three yearly cycle max.

    Bond is a strange one because in terms of brand it is on a par with Marvel and SW as outlined in the article, but a lot of that is down to heritage and to some extent reliability. I don't think the world is crying out for any more Bond than we currently get and in terms of a young fan base, which is what you need to facilitate a constant flow of product, it doesn't exist on the same level.
    That's true, and there is a huge risk that they would have to water down the product further in order to accommodate today's fans if they go down the more exploitative route, which I'd rather not see.

    Ultimately as you say, Bond is unique. He's almost an anomaly in today's world of sanitized heroes. An outlier. It's not just the essential Britishness, although that's a large part of it. There's something more, and as you note a lot of that is due to heritage. That's what makes him interesting and that's what keeps viewers coming back.

    Still, I preferred the predictability of the Cubby era. I liked the way they executed back then and if they made mistakes, we only had to wait a few years for a new one to wash the past away. As I've said, I'd like them to dump the direct connectivity going forward as well.

    I'd also scrap continuity. A consistent cycle with the onus on creating a solid self-contained adventure is my preference post B25. It's not coincidence that CR and SF were the two resounding successes of the era.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 4,617
    "Ultimately as you say, Bond is unique. He's almost an anomaly in today's world of sanitized heroes. An outlier. It's not just the essential Britishness, although that's a large part of it. There's something more, and as you note a lot of that is due to heritage. That's what makes him interesting and that's what keeps viewers coming back."

    Bond the character is unique but that does not stop them introducing new characters that dont share those values. It could be a great way of bringing in new fans. Viewers do come back but I am not sure about gaining traction with new viewers.
    I suspect there is a chance that youngsters are more excited by MI and Avengers rather than Bond. New characters and spin offs could produce a wider range of characters whilst retaining Bond in his 007 role.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Having said that, the museum exhibitions have been successful. I wouldn't mind them considering an official Bond museum in London somewhere, with more touring exhibitions. The potential for more touring exhibitions, film screenings, special events, massive store etc. is worth considering.
    Interesting idea.

    They could invest more in 'gaming' as well. I don't play, but I know that the success of the GE game helped bring in lots of new fans.

    As long as it doesn't dilute the primary brand (which is the film), I'm open to it.

    For example, they could do a spinoff tv series focusing on MI6 or some foreign intelligence operation which is first established in a specific film.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    The only possible interest I have is seeing Netflix or someone do a faithful period adaptation of all the novels.

    It wouldn't surprise me if we get MP, Q, Leiter, Blofeld etc spinoffs as the big thing these days when you own a franchise is to flog it to death and then continuing flogging the corpse.

    You have to think that it can't be long before some bright spark realises that bringing The MP Diaries to the small screen is a no brainer as it has a female lead which is practically de rigeur for any project these days (and if they let Harris carry on the role they also tick the diversity box too. Slam dunk).
  • Posts: 4,619
    WOW! This is huge news, possibly bigger than the announcement of Craig's return. This is about the long term future of the Bond franchise. The most important nuggets from the article:

    1. "Warner Bros. remains in the lead to land film distribution rights"
    2. "Apple’s and Amazon’s inclusion in the chase would indicate that more is on the table than film rights, including the future of the franchise if MGM will sell or license out for the right price."
    3. "[...] this would suggest that Apple is interested in cutting a larger rights deal or acquiring full ownership"
  • Posts: 4,617
    well with Disney, we can see the way it could go. Does anyone think that the main series has been diluted by the spin offs? If the scripts are good and the production values are good, I dont see the problem. And cross referencng could be good fun.

    It all depends on how its managed.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    All of this talk sounds like more than a 'one film' distribution deal as was initially rumoured. It also sounds like far more than business as usual. More transformative.

    I wonder if there is really more going on behind the scenes than we know.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,540
    bondjames wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Having said that, the museum exhibitions have been successful. I wouldn't mind them considering an official Bond museum in London somewhere, with more touring exhibitions. The potential for more touring exhibitions, film screenings, special events, massive store etc. is worth considering.
    Interesting idea.

    They could invest more in 'gaming' as well. I don't play, but I know that the success of the GE game helped bring in lots of new fans.

    As long as it doesn't dilute the primary brand (which is the film), I'm open to it.

    For example, they could do a spinoff tv series focusing on MI6 or some foreign intelligence operation which is first established in a specific film.

    Yes of course, I completely forgot about the gaming aspect. It's something that has been very uneven, and really should be a success. I hope moving forward, once a deal has been locked in, we start to see some solid game releases.

    I could live with a tv series, but one that is done right, and has a reason to exist. Just because you have the rights, and can make one, doesn't mean you should. It can only survive for so long, as a Bond spin-off before people stop caring about that connection and the show as a whole. Something like 'Spooks' but MI6 based could work.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Having said that, the museum exhibitions have been successful. I wouldn't mind them considering an official Bond museum in London somewhere, with more touring exhibitions. The potential for more touring exhibitions, film screenings, special events, massive store etc. is worth considering.
    Interesting idea.

    They could invest more in 'gaming' as well. I don't play, but I know that the success of the GE game helped bring in lots of new fans.

    As long as it doesn't dilute the primary brand (which is the film), I'm open to it.

    For example, they could do a spinoff tv series focusing on MI6 or some foreign intelligence operation which is first established in a specific film.

    Yes of course, I completely forgot about the gaming aspect. It's something that has been very uneven, and really should be a success. I hope moving forward, once a deal has been locked in, we start to see some solid game releases.

    I could live with a tv series, but one that is done right, and has a reason to exist. Just because you have the rights, and can make one, doesn't mean you should. It can only survive for so long, as a Bond spin-off before people stop caring about that connection and the show as a whole. Something like 'Spooks' but MI6 based could work.
    Absolutely. That's what I was thinking. Homeland is also a reasonable template to use for a grittier and more realistically based tv series. Concepts and ideas could be explored here that they perhaps can't touch in a 2 hr film, and allow for a universe to develop around the film releases.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,540
    bondjames wrote: »
    All of this talk sounds like more than a 'one film' distribution deal as was initially rumoured. It also sounds like far more than business as usual. More transformative.

    I wonder if there is really more going on behind the scenes than we know.

    "Other sources insist that, at this stage, Eon producers Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson remain traditional in their outlook and that theatrical movies are their main concern."

    There's slight hope in that sentence for those hoping to see tradition carry on, but that sentence was towards the end, almost as a throw away, so seemingly big things are happening behind-the-scenes.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 11,119
    patb wrote: »
    well with Disney, we can see the way it could go. Does anyone think that the main series has been diluted by the spin offs? If the scripts are good and the production values are good, I dont see the problem. And cross referencng could be good fun.

    We know Bond is a money milking machine. But you have money milking machines....and you have oversized, creativity killing, China-censored money milking machines. The latter I refuse to welcome.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 4,619
    I wonder what @QuantumOrganization thinks about this news. It seems they don't have a distributor for Bond 25 yet. It is highly unlikely they are going to start filming Bond 25 + Bond 26 next May when they do not have a distributor yet. This "two movie production" rumour seems less and less likely each day...
  • Posts: 4,617
    The other thing which I am sure management will be taking into consideration is the changing gender roles within movies. We have the two female leads from Star Wars, Wonder Woman did well plus strong female roles within Avengers.

    Bond is behind in this. He clearly cant be part of an Avengers team, he is a loner by nature but spin off characters could enable the Bond Universe to exploit this new market.

    I read about the Jinx spin off but it was too early for that. I think things have moved quickly and there is space for this now.
  • Posts: 9,847
    I actually hope this is all true except for one thing

    lets go through this

    1. A Taken style Revenge thriller: I love it Loved Taken and have screamed since DECEMBER 2015
    2. Bond gets married and then goes out on vengeance; cool
    3. A more straight adaption of YOLT cool

    My one issue

    4. Shatterhand: really ... Look I love the title I do I get others hate it I do love it but it's not right for now Especially since the name Dr Gutham Von Shatterhand is cool name on it's own right that both it and the film name Shatterhand to many one word s titles

    there are better titles

    Blofeld
    Garden of Death
    Risico
    The Property of a Lady
    or my personal Favorite
    The Hildebrand Rarity
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    The other thing which I am sure management will be taking into consideration is the changing gender roles within movies. We have the two female leads from Star Wars, Wonder Woman did well plus strong female roles within Avengers.

    Bond is behind in this. He clearly cant be part of an Avengers team, he is a loner by nature but spin off characters could enable the Bond Universe to exploit this new market.

    I read about the Jinx spin off but it was too early for that. I think things have moved quickly and there is space for this now.

    This is just pandering.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    All of this talk sounds like more than a 'one film' distribution deal as was initially rumoured. It also sounds like far more than business as usual. More transformative.

    I wonder if there is really more going on behind the scenes than we know.

    This will be the first time I'm posting a .gif. But here I go dear @bondjames :

    spectreeverywhere.gif
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 12,837
    I'm not keen on the idea of spinoffs but a TV series would be cool. They could make it a period piece too, set it in the 50s (I don't know if I'd like adaptations of the novels though because a lot of the early adaptations are pretty much perfect; a period piece adaptation of OHMSS for example would just seem pointless because the original was perfect and a period remake would never feel as authentic as a film actually made back then). That'd bridge the gap between films nicely and a period piece would make it different enough to avoid too much confusion/comparison.

    I don't want endless spinoffs or a Marvel approach to the films, and I don't want EON to sell up. What I would like is to get back to having a film every two years, three years max. And I'd like someone to start making Bond video games again as well. If done right they're basically playable Bond films. Everything Or Nothing really helped ease the four year gap between DAD and CR imo.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 4,617
    Capitalism is based on pandering.

    "Do you want fries with that?" - its all about up selling and exploiting new markets and, whether you like it or not, the Bond universe has not been upsold well.

    "Upselling is a sales technique where a seller induces the customer to purchase more expensive items, upgrades or other add-ons in an attempt to make a more profitable sale."
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I can imagine the distributors are driving a hard bargain. They may not make money on a film release, but they want the ability to make it elsewhere.
  • patb wrote: »
    Capitalism is based on pandering.

    "Do you want fries with that?" - its all about up selling and exploiting new markets and, whether you like it or not, the Bond universe has not been upsold

    Sadly, that adage is entirely true :-(.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    Capitalism is based on pandering.

    "Do you want fries with that?" - its all about up selling and exploiting new markets and, whether you like it or not, the Bond universe has not been upsold well.

    "Upselling is a sales technique where a seller induces the customer to purchase more expensive items, upgrades or other add-ons in an attempt to make a more profitable sale."

    Except with Bond you aren't asking, 'Do you want fries with that?'. You're asking, 'Do you want a Tanner film with that?'. 'Err... no. No I don't'. It's like when you buy a blu-ray in HMV and they ask if you want a Michael Bolton album for £2.
  • Posts: 4,617
    I would bet that Disney had a complete business package in place regarding how they exploit Star Wars before they agreed the price and it would not surprise me if a team of experts are trying to do exactly the same thing with the Bond franchise in order to find its total worth. (some of it is just there to be seen, anyone seen the Lego Bond mockups? I want them ASAP!)

    "Bond burger anyone?"
  • NSGWNSGW London
    Posts: 299
    Yeah we could be potentially looking at one of the biggest turning points in the series' history if this type of deal is made, I'm both excited by and wary of it.

    I agree with @bondjames that I would rather they keep to the original model if they could deliver a new film every two years but with the gaps getting longer, these new possibilities, with the right people involved, could give us fans things we didn't even realise we wanted.

    Like many others, I can't see the appeal of spin offs with the MI6 team but I'd like to see more video games or perhaps some kind of series, as @TheWizardOfIce suggested faithful period adaptations could be great, maybe as an animated series to seperate it from the main series and to keep to only having one on screen Bond at a time.

    It depends on what ideas these people have for the series, but if it means Bond becoming more like the Star Wars or Marvel business models, I'm with @Gustav_Graves I'd rather it remains underdeveloped too, less is more.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    If Bond gets a TV series, I'd rather it be handled by Netflix than Amazon, but I'm biased against Jeff Bezos.

    Recently, I was fancying the idea of animated adaptations of Fleming's novels done in the style of Mike Mignola (of Hellboy fame).

    Emperor-Zombie.jpg
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    mr.groinandtheamazingscrewonhead.jpg
  • Posts: 4,619
    Guys, yes, there are many idiots in Hollywood but the people with real power in the film industry are not complete idiots. They are not considering Tanner or Moneypenny spin-offs. There are far better ways to better exploit the Bond brand.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    I would bet that Disney had a complete business package in place regarding how they exploit Star Wars before they agreed the price and it would not surprise me if a team of experts are trying to do exactly the same thing with the Bond franchise in order to find its total worth. (some of it is just there to be seen, anyone seen the Lego Bond mockups? I want them ASAP!)

    "Bond burger anyone?"

    It isn't going to work, mate. How do you sell a Dr. No lego set to a 10 year-old?
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