No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,031
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.
    It was a 'severe' disappointment to many here, myself included. Like I said, the ball is in EON's court. The only one who's been talking lately is Craig, and it appears through him that they realize what they have to do next time around. Let's see what they come up with.

    You say Craig's the only one been talking, which suggests you want MGW and BB to talk to you, what would you want them to tell you?
    The first part of your statement is accurate. I did say Craig's the only one who's been talking about B25, and that's fact.

    The second part of your statement is an incorrect conclusion. The suggestion is not there, even though you assumed it. I don't expect them to tell us anything at this point. From what we know, they don't even have a distributor, who has override power on many elements at play.

    Bottom line is we have no reason to be positive or negative at this point. There are far too many variables still.

    ok...
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 4,619
    Until someone has written a professional film, cast it professionally, prepped it, produced it, shot it, edited it and packaged it, it is possibly prudent to lay off the "it cannot be hard" notions. A hell of a lot of professionalism and skill goes into the films that forum folk knock and judge. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it rather than talking about doing it from afar.
    You are not only not listenting, you are covering your ears and shouting "LALALALA". Nobody here doubts that producing a movie is a complex and often difficult task. What is NOT difficult (or at least should not be for any competent producer) is hiring the right writers and getting them deliver a script in 1.5 YEARS.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Dennison wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.
    It was a 'severe' disappointment to many here, myself included. Like I said, the ball is in EON's court. The only one who's been talking lately is Craig, and it appears through him that they realize what they have to do next time around. Let's see what they come up with.

    You say Craig's the only one been talking, which suggests you want MGW and BB to talk to you, what would you want them to tell you?

    "We have made a mistake!"

    What mistake would that be?

    They have ruined so many lives on this community.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Dennison wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.
    It was a 'severe' disappointment to many here, myself included. Like I said, the ball is in EON's court. The only one who's been talking lately is Craig, and it appears through him that they realize what they have to do next time around. Let's see what they come up with.

    You say Craig's the only one been talking, which suggests you want MGW and BB to talk to you, what would you want them to tell you?

    "We have made a mistake!"

    What mistake would that be?

    They have ruined so many lives on this community.
    An understatement perhaps?
  • Posts: 1,031
    Until someone has written a professional film, cast it professionally, prepped it, produced it, shot it, edited it and packaged it, it is possibly prudent to lay off the "it cannot be hard" notions. A hell of a lot of professionalism and skill goes into the films that forum folk knock and judge. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it rather than talking about doing it from afar.
    You are not only not listenting, you are covering your ears and shouting "LALALALA". Nobody here doubts that producing a movie is a complex and often difficult task. What is NOT difficult (or at least should not be for any competent producer) is hiring the right writers and getting them deliver a script in 1.5 YEARS.

    You don't know what you're talking about mate - but at least you're amusing us all :)
  • Posts: 1,031
    Dennison wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Surely it's not rocket science (from what I understand, that's pretty complex stuff), although certainly more difficult than it would appear. As with any multi-$m endeavour, there are lots of folks with opinions getting in the picture, especially when the last two films have made big 'gross' (if not 'net') for all concerned.

    We're having this discussion because many weren't pleased with what we got last time out. Shocked to the point of disbelief in some cases. It's understandable.

    They've got four years to sort this out this time around, and I sincerely hope they're using their time wisely.

    If they deliver a cracker in 2019 all will be forgotten. Fans are a bit finicky that way.

    The negativity surrounding Spectre from some quarters is quite hyperbolic though. Sure, it has many flaws, but you'd think it was the worst film ever from some people.
    It was a 'severe' disappointment to many here, myself included. Like I said, the ball is in EON's court. The only one who's been talking lately is Craig, and it appears through him that they realize what they have to do next time around. Let's see what they come up with.

    You say Craig's the only one been talking, which suggests you want MGW and BB to talk to you, what would you want them to tell you?

    "We have made a mistake!"

    What mistake would that be?

    They have ruined so many lives on this community.

    Clearly.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Until someone has written a professional film, cast it professionally, prepped it, produced it, shot it, edited it and packaged it, it is possibly prudent to lay off the "it cannot be hard" notions. A hell of a lot of professionalism and skill goes into the films that forum folk knock and judge. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it rather than talking about doing it from afar.
    You are not only not listenting, you are covering your ears and shouting "LALALALA". Nobody here doubts that producing a movie is a complex and often difficult task. What is NOT difficult (or at least should not be for any competent producer) is hiring the right writers and getting them deliver a script in 1.5 YEARS.

    Well, you obviously think it's a piece of piss given you believe a 'large' number of people here could do it better than EON.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Bond, Star Wars, and Wonder Woman 2 out in a close period of time. However? They are all very different genre's and all very popular. All these films will perform well regardless.
  • Posts: 1,031
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Bond, Star Wars, and Wonder Woman 2 out in a close period of time. However? They are all very different genre's and all very popular. All these films will perform well regardless.

    True, I will be going to see 2 out of the three of them.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Dennison wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Bond, Star Wars, and Wonder Woman 2 out in a close period of time. However? They are all very different genre's and all very popular. All these films will perform well regardless.

    True, I will be going to see 2 out of the three of them.

    Me too! I wonder which they are?!!! Lol!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    The interesting point will be IMAX as well as the more expensive 4K theatres. It's critical for a large production to lock these theatres for an extended period of time to boost gross. Disney plays serious hardball in these situations, based on what I read here back in 2015.

    I wouldn't be surprised if one of these moves slots (and it will probably be WW or Bond).
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    If they target the China market the sky's the limit.

    @RichardTheBruce yeah if they can get 200 million or more from there 200 mill from uk 300 million from us and rest of the world 700-800 million bond 25 will be in good shape they may need to get as much money out of china as they can since the us market went out the window with the SW release date change and it would make sense to target china anyway since mgm tried to be bought out by china never thought bond was so relaint on china until now and now I see why.
  • Posts: 1,497
    Until someone has written a professional film, cast it professionally, prepped it, produced it, shot it, edited it and packaged it, it is possibly prudent to lay off the "it cannot be hard" notions. A hell of a lot of professionalism and skill goes into the films that forum folk knock and judge. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it rather than talking about doing it from afar.
    You are not only not listenting, you are covering your ears and shouting "LALALALA". Nobody here doubts that producing a movie is a complex and often difficult task. What is NOT difficult (or at least should not be for any competent producer) is hiring the right writers and getting them deliver a script in 1.5 YEARS.

    Panchito you're accusing CatchingBulllets of not listening? Seriously? You have had the script writing and producing process broadly explained to you from people with years of first hand experience and you choose to ignore all this and continue to insist that it is "NOT difficult" to write/produce a good script in 1.5 years. You also state Eon fail to hire competent writers and are therefore incompetent themselves.

    As I asked you earlier, are you saying someone like Jez Butterworth is not a competent writer? Or John Logan is a hack? Logan may have failed to deliver a strong or good draft for SP, but that can happen to the best writers in the world because the writing and creative process is very subjective and screenwriting is particularly hard because a script has to be very well crafted, precisely staged, clearly structured and much much more, and therefore even the most experienced writer can make missteps. Generally producers allow for 3 drafts of a screenplay to get off the blocks because it frequently takes that many drafts just to begin to get a concise and strong screenplay. Producers understand this, and that's why it can take time to get a script in shape. Many writers and producers and directors spend years on a project to get the script as they want it (even projects they are developing with a studio or production company). And yes I agree with you, Nolan is a remarkable talent, but don't think a script like Dunkirk just popped up out of nowhere in a mere year or so, Nolan had that project formulating for years - most writer/directors have projects that they have been planning, researching and working on for years before they finally script. And sometimes, under the pressures of deadlines and release dates, scripts fail to completely gel, especially big budget franchise films which are also scrutinised by producers, execs, financiers etc. many with different or opposing agendas or opinions. That's the reality whether you choose to accept it or not.
  • ColonelSun wrote: »
    Until someone has written a professional film, cast it professionally, prepped it, produced it, shot it, edited it and packaged it, it is possibly prudent to lay off the "it cannot be hard" notions. A hell of a lot of professionalism and skill goes into the films that forum folk knock and judge. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it rather than talking about doing it from afar.
    You are not only not listenting, you are covering your ears and shouting "LALALALA". Nobody here doubts that producing a movie is a complex and often difficult task. What is NOT difficult (or at least should not be for any competent producer) is hiring the right writers and getting them deliver a script in 1.5 YEARS.

    Panchito you're accusing CatchingBulllets of not listening? Seriously? You have had the script writing and producing process broadly explained to you from people with years of first hand experience and you choose to ignore all this and continue to insist that it is "NOT difficult" to write/produce a good script in 1.5 years. You also state Eon fail to hire competent writers and are therefore incompetent themselves.

    As I asked you earlier, are you saying someone like Jez Butterworth is not a competent writer? Or John Logan is a hack? Logan may have failed to deliver a strong or good draft for SP, but that can happen to the best writers in the world because the writing and creative process is very subjective and screenwriting is particularly hard because a script has to be very well crafted, precisely staged, clearly structured and much much more, and therefore even the most experienced writer can make missteps. Generally producers allow for 3 drafts of a screenplay to get off the blocks because it frequently takes that many drafts just to begin to get a concise and strong screenplay. Producers understand this, and that's why it can take time to get a script in shape. Many writers and producers and directors spend years on a project to get the script as they want it (even projects they are developing with a studio or production company). And yes I agree with you, Nolan is a remarkable talent, but don't think a script like Dunkirk just popped up out of nowhere in a mere year or so, Nolan had that project formulating for years - most writer/directors have projects that they have been planning, researching and working on for years before they finally script. And sometimes, under the pressures of deadlines and release dates, scripts fail to completely gel, especially big budget franchise films which are also scrutinised by producers, execs, financiers etc. many with different or opposing agendas or opinions. That's the reality whether you choose to accept it or not.

    About Logan. Has he actually ever done a good script? His work for the Star Trek franchise is probably the low point of the series. A task not too easy to achieve if I might add. Gladiator is nothing but a rip off of The Fall of the Roman Empire with some dialogs added.
    Actually dialogs are probably the only thing which he does quite well, I give you that, but otherwise ...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    This is not my area, but just from reading these posts, I think the comments by some are focused on a desire for tighter producer control going forward in the early stages. I can't argue with that. I think it's highly desirable. Clarity of vision from the top surely can keep a writer's impulse in check and avoid tangents.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Interesting discussion re the way a script is developed and I can see all of the points above being valid. My earlier points were connected with the core concept/vision that a script revolves around. How long does it take forum members to decide if these are good ideas to base a script around?

    Bond is M's cousin

    Bond is Moneypenny's half brother

    Bond donates kidney to Tanner

    Bond is Blofeld's adopted brother (sort of)

    Bond marries Swann and they live in a 3 bedroom semi in Tunbridge Wells

    We have gut reactions to whether ideas work or not. I dont think its down to execution at a later stage. Good execution cant save a bad idea. Producers have a role in kicking these bad ideas into touch at the earliest possible opportunity (even better, hire writers who dont suggest them in the first place) in order to save time and money and in order not to produce movies that are poorly received..
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 4,619
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    You have had the script writing and producing process broadly explained to you from people with years of first hand experience
    I believe you should either man up, and post a link to your imdb page so we can see for ourselves how experienced you are, or stop using your "writer card". Your experience means absolutely nothing to me as long as I have no idea what scripts you have written.
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    As I asked you earlier, are you saying someone like Jez Butterworth is not a competent writer?
    He might be compenet but they brought him only after they fired their initial writer and had Purvis & Wade work on the script for months. As for Logan, I wouldn't say he is a hack but he is clearly no Christopher Nolan. Also, hiring compenent writers is only the first of the two main things the producers need to focus on when it comes to script development. The other is getting the writer deliver the script on time. Logan failed to do that, and despite that, BB + MGW did not replace him on time. 15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
    As far as I know, the "ugly lesbian" thing wasn't applicant to Blofeld. I remember reading a message or two about the suggestion of a female Blofeld but that was shut down immediately and both parties classed it as lazy. However, that aforementioned moniker could refer to Irma Bunt, which was in one of P&W's drafts.
  • CatchingBulletsCatchingBullets facebook.com/catchingbullets
    edited September 2017 Posts: 292
    Until someone has written a professional film, cast it professionally, prepped it, produced it, shot it, edited it and packaged it, it is possibly prudent to lay off the "it cannot be hard" notions. A hell of a lot of professionalism and skill goes into the films that forum folk knock and judge. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it rather than talking about doing it from afar.
    You are not only not listenting, you are covering your ears and shouting "LALALALA". Nobody here doubts that producing a movie is a complex and often difficult task. What is NOT difficult (or at least should not be for any competent producer) is hiring the right writers and getting them deliver a script in 1.5 YEARS.

    On a big budget movie the script can have a lot of fingerprints on it from more writers than are officially mentioned or announced. Also, the timelines of announcements has zero bearing on when those processes were initiated and where exactly they are in their creative timescale.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
    As far as I know, the "ugly lesbian" thing wasn't applicant to Blofeld. I remember reading a message or two about the suggestion of a female Blofeld but that was shut down immediately and both parties classed it as lazy. However, that aforementioned moniker could refer to Irma Bunt, which was in one of P&W's drafts.
    Oh, thanks. I think they should have included her and dumped Hinx. It would have added a little old school eccentricity and flavour to the proceedings (especially if that was the internal description for her in the script).
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
    As far as I know, the "ugly lesbian" thing wasn't applicant to Blofeld. I remember reading a message or two about the suggestion of a female Blofeld but that was shut down immediately and both parties classed it as lazy. However, that aforementioned moniker could refer to Irma Bunt, which was in one of P&W's drafts.
    Oh, thanks. I think they should have included her and dumped Hinx. It would have added a little old school eccentricity and flavour to the proceedings (especially if that was the internal description for her in the script).
    Hinx was still there in every P&W draft. But, in John Logan's efforts, there was a rogue CIA agent called Charlotte who pretty much filled in the space for Hinx who later replaced her. She wasn't depicted as a henchwoman but rather a femme fatale who engaged with Bond in a ski parkour (an idea that was jettisoned because Craig can't ski, accordingly).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
    As far as I know, the "ugly lesbian" thing wasn't applicant to Blofeld. I remember reading a message or two about the suggestion of a female Blofeld but that was shut down immediately and both parties classed it as lazy. However, that aforementioned moniker could refer to Irma Bunt, which was in one of P&W's drafts.
    Oh, thanks. I think they should have included her and dumped Hinx. It would have added a little old school eccentricity and flavour to the proceedings (especially if that was the internal description for her in the script).
    Hinx was still there in every P&W draft. But, in John Logan's efforts, there was a rogue CIA agent called Charlotte who pretty much filled in the space for Hinx who later replaced her. She wasn't depicted as a henchwoman but rather a femme fatale who engaged with Bond in a ski parkour (an idea that was jettisoned because Craig can't ski, accordingly).
    Wow. I love that idea. Far more interesting than the formulaic Hinx. What a shame. Perhaps they can follow up on this idea in the future, with an actor who can ski.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
    As far as I know, the "ugly lesbian" thing wasn't applicant to Blofeld. I remember reading a message or two about the suggestion of a female Blofeld but that was shut down immediately and both parties classed it as lazy. However, that aforementioned moniker could refer to Irma Bunt, which was in one of P&W's drafts.
    Oh, thanks. I think they should have included her and dumped Hinx. It would have added a little old school eccentricity and flavour to the proceedings (especially if that was the internal description for her in the script).
    Hinx was still there in every P&W draft. But, in John Logan's efforts, there was a rogue CIA agent called Charlotte who pretty much filled in the space for Hinx who later replaced her. She wasn't depicted as a henchwoman but rather a femme fatale who engaged with Bond in a ski parkour (an idea that was jettisoned because Craig can't ski, accordingly).
    Wow. I love that idea. Far more interesting than the formulaic Hinx. What a shame. Perhaps they can follow up on this idea in the future, with an actor who can ski.
    Agreed. There are many ideas in John Logan's efforts that I liked, personally. The P&W script dialed everything back down to safe zone while Logan took many liberties. I actually am interested in reading one of Logan's drafts. All I know of his version are what appear in those leaked notes.
  • edited September 2017 Posts: 4,619
    bondjames wrote: »
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
    As far as I know, the "ugly lesbian" thing wasn't applicant to Blofeld. I remember reading a message or two about the suggestion of a female Blofeld but that was shut down immediately and both parties classed it as lazy. However, that aforementioned moniker could refer to Irma Bunt, which was in one of P&W's drafts.
    One e-mail from April 2014 (before they hired P&W) explicitly mentions "Blofeld will be ugly lesbian". A couple of days later Amy Pascal wrote the following to Mendes: "I love Meryl IDEAS". I'm assuming they were considering Meryl Streep for female Blofeld. 3 weeks later Pascal wrote (not to Mendes): "Tilda wouldn't even do this". I'm speculating Blofeld was still female at this stage, and they were thinking about Tilda Swinton.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
    As far as I know, the "ugly lesbian" thing wasn't applicant to Blofeld. I remember reading a message or two about the suggestion of a female Blofeld but that was shut down immediately and both parties classed it as lazy. However, that aforementioned moniker could refer to Irma Bunt, which was in one of P&W's drafts.
    One e-mail from April 2014 (before they hired P&W) explicitly mentions "Blofeld will be ugly lesbian". A couple of days later Amy Pascal wrote the following to Mendes: "I love Meryl IDEAS". I'm assuming they were considering Meryl Streep for female Blofeld. 3 weeks later Pascal wrote (not to Mendes): "Tilda wouldn't even do this". I'm speculating Blofeld was still female at this stage, and they were thinking about Tilda Swinton.
    Good God! All awful ideas. Glad they realized it before things got completely out of hand.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited September 2017 Posts: 10,592
    Logan's draft felt like pure fan fiction. A big reason for why many people find some of the elements appealing is merely because it is vastly different from what we got. Given where Logan's draft stood prior the the P&W rewrite, it isn't a stretch to say they really saved the film from near destruction. Regardless of what many think of SP, I firmly believe that some of Logan's ideas would have seriously put the franchise in jeapordy. Seriously, Tanner commuting suicide in front of Bond's eyes, Blofeld an African Warlord?? Come on.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited September 2017 Posts: 15,423
    jake24 wrote: »
    Logan's draft felt like pure fan fiction. A big reason for why many people find some of the elements appealing is merely because it is vastly different from what we got. Given where Logan's draft stood prior the the P&W rewrite, it isn't a stretch to say they really saved the film from near destruction. Regardless of what many think of SP, I firmly believe that some of Logan's ideas would have seriously put the franchise in jeapordy. Seriously, Tanner commuting suicide in front of Bond's eyes, Blofeld an African Warlord?? Come on.
    I don't know about anybody else but... I would have rather had him as an African Warlord than the family melodrama that was straight out of a telenovela or some cheesy Indian folklore. I do hope however by being an African Warlord, he wouldn't have been an overglorified Obanno.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
    As far as I know, the "ugly lesbian" thing wasn't applicant to Blofeld. I remember reading a message or two about the suggestion of a female Blofeld but that was shut down immediately and both parties classed it as lazy. However, that aforementioned moniker could refer to Irma Bunt, which was in one of P&W's drafts.
    Oh, thanks. I think they should have included her and dumped Hinx. It would have added a little old school eccentricity and flavour to the proceedings (especially if that was the internal description for her in the script).
    Hinx was still there in every P&W draft. But, in John Logan's efforts, there was a rogue CIA agent called Charlotte who pretty much filled in the space for Hinx who later replaced her. She wasn't depicted as a henchwoman but rather a femme fatale who engaged with Bond in a ski parkour (an idea that was jettisoned because Craig can't ski, accordingly).
    Wow. I love that idea. Far more interesting than the formulaic Hinx. What a shame. Perhaps they can follow up on this idea in the future, with an actor who can ski.
    Agreed. There are many ideas in John Logan's efforts that I liked, personally. The P&W script dialed everything back down to safe zone while Logan took many liberties. I actually am interested in reading one of Logan's drafts. All I know of his version are what appear in those leaked notes.
    Certainly some of the ideas that have been mentioned here are quite intriguing. Not open to the female Blofeld but other ideas seem very interesting and would have added some life to the film.
    jake24 wrote: »
    Logan's draft felt like pure fan fiction. A big reason for why many people find some of the elements appealing is merely because it is vastly different from what we got. Given where Logan's draft stood prior the the P&W rewrite, it isn't a stretch to say they really saved the film from near destruction. Regardless of what many think of SP, I firmly believe that some of Logan's ideas would have seriously put the franchise in jeapordy. Seriously, Tanner commuting suicide in front of Bond's eyes, Blofeld an African Warlord?? Come on.
    I don't know about anybody else but... I would have rather had him as an African Warlord than the family melodrama that was straight out of a telenovela or some cheesy Indian folklore. I do hope however by being an African Warlord, he wouldn't have been an overglorified Obanno.
    The warlord idea could have added grit, and I'm open to it but not for Blofeld. They can perhaps draw on this for a new villain in the future.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    15 months after the release of Skyfall they still had no idea whether Blofeld should be a black South African who is completely unrelated to Bond, Bond's white foster-brother, or an "ugly lesbian".
    What? I didn't know about this. I'm intrigued now. Could have been far more interesting than the insipid tripe we got imho.
    As far as I know, the "ugly lesbian" thing wasn't applicant to Blofeld. I remember reading a message or two about the suggestion of a female Blofeld but that was shut down immediately and both parties classed it as lazy. However, that aforementioned moniker could refer to Irma Bunt, which was in one of P&W's drafts.
    Oh, thanks. I think they should have included her and dumped Hinx. It would have added a little old school eccentricity and flavour to the proceedings (especially if that was the internal description for her in the script).
    Hinx was still there in every P&W draft. But, in John Logan's efforts, there was a rogue CIA agent called Charlotte who pretty much filled in the space for Hinx who later replaced her. She wasn't depicted as a henchwoman but rather a femme fatale who engaged with Bond in a ski parkour (an idea that was jettisoned because Craig can't ski, accordingly).
    Wow. I love that idea. Far more interesting than the formulaic Hinx. What a shame. Perhaps they can follow up on this idea in the future, with an actor who can ski.
    Agreed. There are many ideas in John Logan's efforts that I liked, personally. The P&W script dialed everything back down to safe zone while Logan took many liberties. I actually am interested in reading one of Logan's drafts. All I know of his version are what appear in those leaked notes.
    Certainly some of the ideas that have been mentioned here are quite intriguing. Not open to the female Blofeld but other ideas seem very interesting and would have added some life to the film.
    jake24 wrote: »
    Logan's draft felt like pure fan fiction. A big reason for why many people find some of the elements appealing is merely because it is vastly different from what we got. Given where Logan's draft stood prior the the P&W rewrite, it isn't a stretch to say they really saved the film from near destruction. Regardless of what many think of SP, I firmly believe that some of Logan's ideas would have seriously put the franchise in jeapordy. Seriously, Tanner commuting suicide in front of Bond's eyes, Blofeld an African Warlord?? Come on.
    I don't know about anybody else but... I would have rather had him as an African Warlord than the family melodrama that was straight out of a telenovela or some cheesy Indian folklore. I do hope however by being an African Warlord, he wouldn't have been an overglorified Obanno.
    The warlord idea could have added grit, and I'm open to it but not for Blofeld. They can perhaps draw on this for a new villain in the future.
    Agreed. Like I said, I'd like to read one of Logan's drafts in order to, at least, get an idea of where he was going or what he was doing. See what he did with the ink and paper. Not just summarized notes about it.

    I would still like to see Bond in a ski parkour chase sometime. I feel like that is going to be used in near future.
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