No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 16,163
    I definitely look forward to seeing it myself. I'm a pretty big fan of the first classic, so I'm sure I'd enjoy it regardless of pace or length.
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 17,756
    Birdleson wrote: »
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    Agreed - while I feel that OHMSS, CR and even SF are justified in their running times, I've thought that SP was extremely bloated almost for the sake of it.

    My thoughts exactly.

    As are mine. Think I had three breaks while watching SP the last time. Three too many for a Bond film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I have many problems with SP, but the length isn't one of them. I find it rather difficult to get through but it's not because of the length - rather it's due to what is being depicted and how it is depicted and acted.

    Having said that, I wouldn't mind Bond films being shorter overall. Around the 2 hr to 2.1 hr mark would be fine for me.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I agree that SPECTRE is effectively the last time (at least for a while) that a Bond film can be over 2 hr 20 mins. That said, with B25 being Craig's last, it may prove challenging to wrap up his arc in a satisfying conclusion who's runtime is less than that.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    that's why, @jake24, @QuantumOrganization had the inside scoop that of course Craig was doing a back-to-back finale! Jeez!...
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    peter wrote: »
    that's why, @jake24, @QuantumOrganization had the inside scoop that of course Craig was doing a back-to-back finale! Jeez!...
    Indeed! I wonder why we haven't heard from him? Perhaps EON swore him to secrecy.
  • Posts: 16,163
    bondjames wrote: »
    I have many problems with SP, but the length isn't one of them. I find it rather difficult to get through but it's not because of the length - rather it's due to what is being depicted and how it is depicted and acted.

    Having said that, I wouldn't mind Bond films being shorter overall. Around the 2 hr to 2.1 hr mark would be fine for me.

    I always liked the 2 hr 10 minute length. Seems half of SP was Scooby Gang/C sequences. Cut out that sub-plot and I wonder how long the film would have been?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Which is why they have to cast smaller name actors for M, Q, and Moneypenny. So, they'll just serve Bond and move the scene along, and be done with it. If we have to focus on a MI6 member other than Bond in the field, it should be another 00-agent.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It's amazing isn't it? We went from having these supporting characters as just that to not having them at all. Then some genius decided to add them back into the mix and give them more to do (just because it's fashionable in other franchises I suppose).

    Rather unfortunate. It's almost like they did a directional shift half way through this reboot thing after a reassessment.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited October 2017 Posts: 10,591
    I honestly don't think a standalone is likely, IMO. Whether or not Blofeld/Madeleine/Hinx make an appearance, at this stage I find the prospect of EON ignoring the events of the previous films extremely doubtful. Time will tell.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I agree. It's a bit pointless to do a standalone after all this deliberate forced interconnectivity to date. Best to try to clean up the narrative/legacy and send him off on his 'high'. Then get back to basics after that.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I understand what you're saying, but they've dug a deep hole with this iteration and reboot (which still remains self contained as of now). Given he's back, finish off his story. Otherwise recast and move on.

    SF was 5 years ago, and at that point we'd only had two films on continuity. Now we have four.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree. It's a bit pointless to do a standalone after all this deliberate forced interconnectivity to date. Best to try to clean up the narrative/legacy and send him off on his 'high'. Then get back to basics after that.
    +1
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited October 2017 Posts: 10,591
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I don't see it as pointless at all. It's what makes sense for EON in a business sense. Scratching the itch of the small percentage of the viewing audience that require neat packaging is not really important. It's never pointless to give us a great Bond film. SF certainly wasn't pointless following a dedicated sequel.
    The difference with SF is that it followed a film that effectively closed a two film story arc (with regards to Quantum and Vesper). With SP, the opposite happens. Blofeld is left alive, with the audience unbeknownst to whether Bond has actually left the field or not. I beleive there's another story to tell, which they wouldn't be able to pull off successfully without acknowledging the stories that came before.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I'd go farther and say that even if it was a complete P.O.S. few would lament the lack of continuity. I just feel that this actor and this contained iteration needs closure to his story. It's how they've approached it to date and it makes sense to close it out.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'd go farther and say that even if it was a complete P.O.S. few would lament the lack of continuity. I just feel that this actor and this contained iteration needs closure to his story. It's how they've approached it to date and it makes sense to close it out.
    Pretty much.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    yes @bondjames, there was some shift half-way through this era. And now they're straddling, or I should say, walking a tightrope. With SP, they almost slipped off.

    There's a rule in script writing: never go back. Once Babs and Co. left MP and Q in the dust-- quite successfully, might I add (I didn't miss those characters, and, even in Fleming's world, Boothroyd (the Quartermaster), and 'penny, play very, very, very minimal roles), the films NEVER should have gone back to them. At least not in this era.

    I doubt a modern M would have a secretary like MP anyways, sitting in the front foyer, taking notes. M would need a personal assistant, as was the role given to Tanner in QoS, and Villiers in CR.

    In a modern, gadget-laden world, we don't need a Q (although I like Ben). Bond shouldn't be given outlandish toys (like exploding watches; cheap deus ex machina devices that we know will save James in a pinch), but, keeping with the Craig era, give him grounded equipment that Bond would believably use in the field.

    They never should have gone back to the well, bringing in these minor characters. It seems with the scooby gang came a change of tone, and a confused execution by the time we saw SP.

    If Villeneuve is in or out, someone needs to ground Craig's last film. He's not Moore or Brosnan. His best humor is sardonic and dry (as we saw in CR and QoS). He's a ferociously physical, masculine actor (as his reviews for OTHELLO seemed to suggest, and as he has proven time and again in his best performances).

    I accepted the shift and change of tone in SF, but didn't appreciate the further descent away from DC's Bond in SP.

    In the end, one last DC film. He's a great actor, who has aged. Lets take what he's best at: the aged warrior, the last man standing for Queen and Country, with the flaw of arrogance (bookending this theme from CR, but, seen from the other other side-- he THINKS he's seen everything and he thinks he KNOWS how to respond. It'll be the job of the director, and his writers, to make sure Bond gets knocked off balance. That's when true heroism is revealed, when you realize you may've lost, BUT, you're not going to quit at going for the win anyways (DH did this particularly well: McClane's picking glass out of his feet, telling Powell to find his wife when this is all done (insinuating he knows he can't beat these guys), to tell her that "John was sorry"... and then something clicks in his brain-- "what were you doing up on that roof, Hans?"...-- and with that, dragging his battered and bleeding body, McClane continues on, against all odds).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Great post @peter. I agree fully that these characters seem out of place these days, more on account of how the film makers seemed to have progressed beyond them in the first two Craig outings.

    I'm with you on trying to close his story out with some meaning and yes, tying back to the themes of CR would be a good way to go. Bond should show that he is now a man who fully sees the 'big picture'. The old pro if you will, bringing it all together.

    I wouldn't even mind a Dench flashback at a crucial moment although I'm sure many here will throw up at the suggestion.
    ---

    @Birdleson, believe me I get where you're coming from. I'm just thinking of it from a legacy standpoint rather than a personal preference standpoint. I'd much rather have a standalone personally, but only with a recast (clean slate - no baggage).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    If it's organic to the story, Dench will always be welcome, as far as I'm concerned, @bondjames! I didn't realize how much i would miss her presence-- then I saw SP...!!
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    It's safe to say that Barbara doesn't want this to be Craig's last one. Maybe she's telling him literally, never say never, and it's better not to have a final moment and closing of the arc. Let's do a stand alone and bring Blofeld back another day. Or Craig may also acknowledge that Blofeld didn't work and to try and redo it and go out on a high is more difficult than creating a stand alone that alludes to the past but is its own great movie.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @DoctorNo, I have to believe that DC is somewhat a realist. He knows time's running out for him to believably execute the character. He can go out on a high, and (hopefully), not over-stay his welcome (which to some on this forum, he has (I can see their point of view on this; I like him and want him to walk out of this series as the only Bond to date, to have a strong concluding film).
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 4,619
    bondjames wrote: »
    Then some genius decided to add them back into the mix and give them more to do (just because it's fashionable in other franchises I suppose)
    The reintroduction of Q and Moneypenny + the introduction of the new M worked PERFECTLY in Skyfall. Never in the history of the series were these three parts (or 4, counting both Ms) were as well written as they were in Skyfall. Spectre is a whole different story of course...
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    @peter, I don't disagree, but as a realist don't you think he might consider my other scenario in which he realizes Blofeld didn't work and going out on a high may require a different direction?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @DoctorNo, and I don't disagree with you either... They could have run with Blofeld-- and, as I stated before, Mr. White should have been Ernst Stavro Blofeld... However, as @bondjames has said tirelessly, it seems EoN is intent on wrapping this era up, and, all bets are on Blofeld's return. I don't doubt Bondjame's educated guess.

    All we can hope is that EoN has historically come back strong after a mis-fire. Lets keep our fingers crossed, and also have faith that Babs and Co know that SP didn't live up to expectations. I have a feeling that she and her team will want to hit this one out of the park.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2017 Posts: 6,302
    bondjames wrote: »
    Then some genius decided to add them back into the mix and give them more to do (just because it's fashionable in other franchises I suppose)
    The reintroduction of Q and Moneypenny + the introduction of the new M worked PERFECTLY in Skyfall. Never in the history of the series were these three parts (or 4, counting both Ms) were as well written as they were in Skyfall. Spectre is a whole different story of course...

    I did not miss Q and Moneypenny, and I cringed when Mendes brought them back.

    The best M, Q, Moneypenny scenes are in the '60s. OHMSS, I believe.

    I like White-as-Blofeld better than the foster brother Blofeld we got.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @echo-- I am, without a doubt, 100%!!! in agreement with you!
  • Posts: 5,745
    bondjames wrote: »
    Then some genius decided to add them back into the mix and give them more to do (just because it's fashionable in other franchises I suppose)
    The reintroduction of Q and Moneypenny + the introduction of the new M worked PERFECTLY in Skyfall. Never in the history of the series were these three parts (or 4, counting both Ms) were as well written as they were in Skyfall. Spectre is a whole different story of course...

    Having Moneypenny be a fresh-start field agent that reserves herself to a desk after failing a mission is actually quite a horrible way of re-introducing her character.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @JWESTBROOK ... +1
  • Posts: 16,163
    JWESTBROOK wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Then some genius decided to add them back into the mix and give them more to do (just because it's fashionable in other franchises I suppose)
    The reintroduction of Q and Moneypenny + the introduction of the new M worked PERFECTLY in Skyfall. Never in the history of the series were these three parts (or 4, counting both Ms) were as well written as they were in Skyfall. Spectre is a whole different story of course...

    Having Moneypenny be a fresh-start field agent that reserves herself to a desk after failing a mission is actually quite a horrible way of re-introducing her character.

    I preferred Lois Maxwell's back story to the character and relationship with Bond.
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 11,425
    doubleoego wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »

    But it is a flawed film and has not aged well at all. In terms of production design, SF and SP beat it by a wide margin, and I suspect both films will age much better.

    An overly long parkour scene that also borders on nonsense. Thanks, Martin.
    An embassy set that is so fake it looks better suited for 60s filmmaking. Thanks, Martin.
    An attempt to make downtown Prague look like downtown Miami by placing a few palm trees along the street. Ugh!. Thanks, Martin.
    An overly long Miami airport action sequence that includes a 747 taking out police cars. Thanks, Martin.
    The worst line and line delivery during DC's tenure: "I won't consider myself to be in trouble until I start weeping blood." Ugh. Thanks, Martin.
    And it would seem that in order to include his drawn-out action sequences, he cut much of the material for the PTS.

    These are the ramblings of a madman

    I concur.

    I'm not a huge fan of Campbell. Can't stand GE. But CR is a solid entry. It has its weak points. As stated above the Miami airport chase is generic stuff and feels out of place. But apart from that it's better than SP and certainly supeirior to SF. I'm a bit of a QOS fan but would probably have to agree that on balance CR is the best of the lot from Craig. From my perspective Mendes really squandered the opportunity provided by CR and QOS. SF sits with the Brosnan films for me as largely unwatchable.
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