No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 4,619
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Re: Bond 25, I am beginning to suspect Waltz has been re-cast.
    I'm beginning to suspect Blofeld will never appear in a Bond film again.

    They spent a long time trying to get the Blofeld/Spectre rights back. I'm certain they will return to that well at some point, if not in Bond 25.
    I still believe that the number one reason they wanted to get those rights back was not that they wanted to use Blofeld and SPECTRE again, but that they wanted to make 100% sure a rogue Bond film will not happen ever again.
  • Posts: 1,031
    bondjames wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I also agree that this news about Waltz indicates they are determined to improve on SP

    Yeah because it was all Waltz's fault.

    He wasn't great but he wasn't terrible either. But if EON think just recasting Blofeld will resolve everything then we are in very deep trouble.

    P&W already back and if Mendes said he was up for it I'd be surprised if he wasn't welcomed back with open arms but as long as we bin Waltz everything going to be fine? Really?

    A clean slate by recasting and getting, say, Nolan in to write and direct would suggest a determination to improve on SP.

    The current situation suggests they are just desperate to milk one more film out of Dan.
    +1. As I said though, the MGM fiasco may be precipitating this. They may have no choice, as a longer term strategic vision cannot be executed at this time. If they need a stub film to boost revenues, why not use Craig. It's not like he's all that busy right now anyway.

    Agreed. There's such a dearth of credible candidates for leading man's they would weaken their hand considerably if they let Craig go now.
    Dennison wrote: »
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    I also agree that this news about Waltz indicates they are determined to improve on SP

    Yeah because it was all Waltz's fault.

    He wasn't great but he wasn't terrible either. But if EON think just recasting Blofeld will resolve everything then we are in very deep trouble.

    P&W already back and if Mendes said he was up for it I'd be surprised if he wasn't welcomed back with open arms but as long as we bin Waltz everything going to be fine? Really?

    A clean slate by recasting and getting, say, Nolan in to write and direct would suggest a determination to improve on SP.

    The current situation suggests they are just desperate to milk one more film out of Dan.

    As Barry Norman would say, 'And why not?'

    Didn't he state that he never actually said that?

    Yes, until he did start saying it.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I love playing games. Who doesn't :-D
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Wasn't it rumoured that Mendes and Waltz fell out on set? Waltz being pushed out was mutually agreeable for EON and Mendes.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Wasn't it rumoured that Mendes and Waltz fell out on set? Waltz being pushed out was mutually agreeable for EON and Mendes.
    Indeed. Mendes is the wild card. He's been really quiet recently. His and Team Scooby's schedules are going to be a clue as to what's going on.
  • Posts: 1,031
    "I'm really sad, but that's the tradition."

    What does he mean!??? Still can't help thinking that they're recasting Blofeld from what he said.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    Wasn't it rumoured that Mendes and Waltz fell out on set? Waltz being pushed out was mutually agreeable for EON and Mendes.
    Indeed. Mendes is the wild card. He's been really quiet recently. His and Team Scooby's schedules are going to be a clue as to what's going on.

    I do hope people aren't suggesting that the ditching of Waltz could pave the way for a Mendes return?

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    Wasn't it rumoured that Mendes and Waltz fell out on set? Waltz being pushed out was mutually agreeable for EON and Mendes.
    Indeed. Mendes is the wild card. He's been really quiet recently. His and Team Scooby's schedules are going to be a clue as to what's going on.

    They already got Craig and P+W back. It makes sense to complete the set. If Mendes and Waltz didn't like each other, perhaps he's made it clear, and they are playing to recast. It would explain a few things.
  • Posts: 4,619
    I really want Mendes to come back because I'm convinced that he would not screw up again like last time, and instead would deliver a movie at least as solid as Skyfall was. Having said that I'm sure he won't return. We have already heard many rumours regarding who the director of Bond 25 will be, but none about Mendes potentially returning. Yes, EON is good at keeping secrets, but if the return of Mendes were in the cards, I think we would have already heard about it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    Wasn't it rumoured that Mendes and Waltz fell out on set? Waltz being pushed out was mutually agreeable for EON and Mendes.
    Indeed. Mendes is the wild card. He's been really quiet recently. His and Team Scooby's schedules are going to be a clue as to what's going on.

    I do hope people aren't suggesting that the ditching of Waltz could pave the way for a Mendes return?

    Yes, it's a possibility.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Wasn't it rumoured that Mendes and Waltz fell out on set? Waltz being pushed out was mutually agreeable for EON and Mendes.
    Indeed. Mendes is the wild card. He's been really quiet recently. His and Team Scooby's schedules are going to be a clue as to what's going on.

    I do hope people aren't suggesting that the ditching of Waltz could pave the way for a Mendes return?
    I've always presumed that Craig back at this stage of the game (for a 'stub' film) more likely means Mendes than anyone else. He's been as involved as anyone over the past decade and has delivered their two box office juggernauts (we all talk about CR/QoS, but it's the two Mendes films that have really delivered the oversize revenues, if not profits).
    bondjames wrote: »
    Wasn't it rumoured that Mendes and Waltz fell out on set? Waltz being pushed out was mutually agreeable for EON and Mendes.
    Indeed. Mendes is the wild card. He's been really quiet recently. His and Team Scooby's schedules are going to be a clue as to what's going on.

    They already got Craig and P+W back. It makes sense to complete the set. If Mendes and Waltz didn't like each other, perhaps he's made it clear, and they are playing to recast. It would explain a few things.
    I agree. It's plausible although not certain.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    I really want Mendes to come back because I'm convinced that he would not screw up again like last time, and instead would deliver a movie at least as solid as Skyfall was. Having said that I'm sure he won't return. We have already heard many rumours regarding who the director of Bond 25 will be, but none about Mendes potentially returning. Yes, EON is good at keeping secrets, but if the return of Mendes were in the cards, I think we would have already heard about it.

    If it was a 3 year gap, then yes. But they might only be in talks now, with still 2 years to go. They have time.
  • Posts: 1,031
    But there was also a rumour that Mendes fell out with Craig ...
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited October 2017 Posts: 1,165
    bondjames wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Admittedly its a little trite, but there could be an easy explanation for a new actor as Blofeld, whilst writing out the 'foster brother' nonsense.

    Putting it simply, Waltz could have not been the real Blofeld from the start.

    Once Denbigh informed the rest of Spectre that Bond was on the case, the real Blofeld decided to use Oberhauser as a decoy, to mess with Bond's head and also to shield himself.

    Im not saying its a great idea, but it would probably work in the convoluted logic the Craig films seem to exist in.
    It's an interesting idea, but then why reveal oneself as Blofeld to begin with? This is what Oberhauser did during the torture scene and it was entirely unnecessary (if he wasn't him). Surely Bond was already crapping his pants enough knowing he was about to die at the hands of his old 'brother' who authored all his pain. The Blofeld revelation was entirely superfluous to Bond if Oberhauser really wasn't the 'big bad' of Spectre.

    How about this for an idea? Waltz was the real Blofeld, but in this continuity Blofeld is just a figurehead of Spectre and not its true leader. Maybe as a twist Irma Bunt could be Spectre's true leader (a female mastermind leading the greatest criminal organization on the planet would be totally in vogue at the moment), or Dr. Guntram Shatterhand could be used but as his own unique character from Franz Oberhauser.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Minion wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Admittedly its a little trite, but there could be an easy explanation for a new actor as Blofeld, whilst writing out the 'foster brother' nonsense.

    Putting it simply, Waltz could have not been the real Blofeld from the start.

    Once Denbigh informed the rest of Spectre that Bond was on the case, the real Blofeld decided to use Oberhauser as a decoy, to mess with Bond's head and also to shield himself.

    Im not saying its a great idea, but it would probably work in the convoluted logic the Craig films seem to exist in.
    It's an interesting idea, but then why reveal oneself as Blofeld to begin with? This is what Oberhauser did during the torture scene and it was entirely unnecessary (if he wasn't him). Surely Bond was already crapping his pants enough knowing he was about to die at the hands of his old 'brother' who authored all his pain. The Blofeld revelation was entirely superfluous to Bond if Oberhauser really wasn't the 'big bad' of Spectre.

    How about this for an idea? Waltz was the real Blofeld, but in this continuity Blofeld is just a figurehead of Spectre and not its true leader? Maybe as a twist Irma Bunt could be Spectre's true leader (a female mastermind leading the greatest criminal organization on the planet would be totally in vogue at the moment), or Dr. Guntram Shatterhand could be used but as his own unique character from Franz Oberhauser.
    This I can see, especially given the butchery that has taken place already. Moreover, I'm sure B25 is going to have more women in major roles, given the climate we are in and the trends. Either there will be more female 'goodies' or more 'baddies'. So Bunt could make an appearance.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I thought Mendes and Craig had a falling out during SP?

    If Mendes returns then there's no way they will do a standalone but I think we're getting ahead of ourselves somewhat here.

    Someone should ring round some film pyrotechnics companies and if any of them say they've had an order for a world record amount of explosives then we can safely say he's coming back.
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    edited October 2017 Posts: 308
    Dennison wrote: »
    "I'm really sad, but that's the tradition."

    What does he mean!??? Still can't help thinking that they're recasting Blofeld from what he said.

    Could be... if they (EON) didn't have an option on him returning. So they didn't think it was tradition to recast at the time.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Someone should ring round some film pyrotechnics companies and if any of them say they've had an order for a world record amount of explosives then we can safely say he's coming back.
    Very much so! :))
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    Perhaps they were worried that Craig wouldn't do another film and wanted to rush things.

    That's definitely why they blew their load so quickly imo. Mendes said it was made with the possibility of it being Craig's last, there's all the nods to the past suggesting it's a finale, and the leaks suggest it was written with that in mind (the "hook" was apparently Bond's last mission, and in one draft he actually killed Blofeld on the bridge before driving off into the sunset with Madeline). They didn't know if Craig was sticking around or not but someone must have really wanted to do Blofeld/Spectre right away, so we got the retcon. They didn't know if they had time to do a Spectre arc, so they tried to turn the last three films into one instead.

    If that's the case, I've lost a lot of respect for Craig for not having a future vision for his Bond. But it seems like everyone can point fingers.

    I don't think it's Craig's fault to be fair. He isn't obligated to do a certain amount of films. If he said I'll do a fourth and see how I feel about a fifth closer to the time then it's on the producers to plan things with that in mind.

    Although to be fair I think they did do the film with that in mind. SP worked as an ending but also worked as a set up for a sequel. My issue is that now they seem to have got cold feet on the sequel idea.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I thought Mendes and Craig had a falling out during SP?
    Apparently, but they also had a good working relationship which predated Bond. Time could have mended tensions, recognizing that Craig was in pain for a lot of the lengthy production.

    That interview on Colbert always struck me as strange. Raring to go. High. Etc. etc. Why such confidence at this early stage? Either he was bs'ing his pants off or there is an old hand somewhere.
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    Posts: 308
    I thought Mendes and Craig had a falling out during SP?

    They had an argument so heated it resulted in a record breaking explosion.
  • Posts: 1,162
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Admittedly its a little trite, but there could be an easy explanation for a new actor as Blofeld, whilst writing out the 'foster brother' nonsense.

    Putting it simply, Waltz could have not been the real Blofeld from the start.

    Once Denbigh informed the rest of Spectre that Bond was on the case, the real Blofeld decided to use Oberhauser as a decoy, to mess with Bond's head and also to shield himself.

    Im not saying its a great idea, but it would probably work in the convoluted logic the Craig films seem to exist in.

    You are a man to my liking! This was part of my very first post on this forum and my suggestion how to mend the foster brother catastrophe:

    "Why not just make Oberhauser a busybody? Someone who worked rather high-level for Spectre, but just pretended to be the big boss himself.
    With a little fantasy all of this could be achieved in just a few minutes of the PTS.
    Just imagine the beloved gunbarrel, followed by a group of people breaking in Blofeld's jail ( causing of course some bloodshed on the way), entering his cell and placing in complete silence a video screen in front of the very terrified looking "Blofeld" (if they wanted to save them money for Waltz they could also keep his face in the shadow and just let his body language and widened-in-terror eyes do the talking.
    Then a voice out of the screen:
    "Hello, Franz. You know, I should be grateful to you for making my name a complete joke all over the intelligence community, just because you were so keen to impress your Mr. Bond, you neurotic little frat. But actually I'm not. I'm afraid not at all. Somehow I feel really sorry. I always found your relentlessly information seeking mind of great use, but you certainly have overplayed your hand costing Spectre in effect all the knowledge to be gained out of the nine eyes project. For that alone you deserve the utmost punishment so at least try to face your fate with some dignity, even though I doubt it."
    We now see the men in the cell doing something disgusting to Oberhauser. I'd imagine something along the lines of an octopus pressed on his face who somehow suffocates him.
    Then the camera focuses on the screen and we see a man up to his throat, stroking a cat he holds in his hands.
    After he seems to have delectated him sufficiently on the site of the dying Oberhauser we hear his voice again:
    "So and now we have to teach MI6 that the name of Ernst Stavros Blofeld is to be taken seriously."


    That's it and today more than a year later I still feel it's by far the best solution. I would even go so far to claim it can't be bested.
    I can't even put in words how much I hate this foster brother Blofeld idea. If I had been in charge for Spectre and someone had come to me and suggested that idea I would have thrown him to the dogs!
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Admittedly its a little trite, but there could be an easy explanation for a new actor as Blofeld, whilst writing out the 'foster brother' nonsense.

    Putting it simply, Waltz could have not been the real Blofeld from the start.

    AIl67ub.gif
  • Posts: 1,162
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I wouldn’t agree @noSolaceleft ; Cubby had plenty of talent as a producer. He and Harry kept the machine going, finding and hiring the talent to see their vision through, altering with the times (for better or worse, but being stagnant and stubborn, with no change, would have killed Bond decades ago); but after twenty plus years essentially running only one business (the James Bond business), Cubby was bound to come up with some terrible ideas.

    It’s the nature of the business, it’s the nature of being human and fallible (we can’t come up with great ideas and solutions 100% of the time).

    As for Babs, until you’ve run a successful film franchise for twenty plus years, with there no sign of it not continuing its successes, I think we can assume she’s a savvy film producer and businesswoman. You may not personally like the direction she’s taken, which is your right, but more people in this world flood to her product time and again (and she is just as guilty of poor choices as anyone else; trick is, like her Dad, she gets her product more right than wrong. SP was a misstep. Lets see how she responds— not having Waltz back is a strong indicator that she’s taking steps in improving on her last outing)

    100% agree with you. Having worked with both Cubby and Barbara way back on LTK, I can tell you everyone hugely respected them. To keep a franchise going for 55 years is simply astonishing and I think some fans on this forum underestimate what an achievement that is and what talent and, as you say, savvy it takes. I also agree that this news about Waltz indicates they are determined to improve on SP - although I must say I find a lot to enjoy and admire in that film - for me, they failed to give Blofeld a strong and dramatically exciting master-plan and as a result the last third (last act if u like) doesn't really have anywhere to go.

    I am not doubting in the slightest their technical abilities as producers in getting the money together or know whom to call or to hire for what project.
    What I'm doubting are their creative abilities. From the beginning the forte of Broccoli was the money part. After all it was Salzman who had secured the rights on the Bond franchise for himself, but didn't have the money to do it alone. Cubby was kind of a stranger to the movie business and only brought by Salzman to it. He also had to be convinced heavily by Young and HS to invest in those saville row suits we today so much take for granted for the 60ies.
    It is not pure coincidence that he never produced something else then bond movies. He wasn't even interested in it. All he wanted was a profit for granted and no experiments. Just look at the unevenness of so many Bond movies just because they weren't brave enough to go to whole 9 yards (LTK comes to mind, for example). Be it father or daughter.
    HS On the other hand produced other movies (Call me Bawana of FRWL fame,for instance.)which by the way was the reason he had to sell his part of EON, since he had tanked big time with one of his projects.
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    Posts: 308
    From the beginning the forte of Broccoli was the money part. After all it was Salzman who had secured the rights on the Bond franchise for himself, but didn't have the money to do it alone. Cubby was kind of a stranger to the movie business and only brought by Salzman to it.

    @noSolaceleft Broccoli a stranger to the movie business? Both had producing credits prior to DN. Broccoli more then Saltzman.
  • Posts: 1,031
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I wouldn’t agree @noSolaceleft ; Cubby had plenty of talent as a producer. He and Harry kept the machine going, finding and hiring the talent to see their vision through, altering with the times (for better or worse, but being stagnant and stubborn, with no change, would have killed Bond decades ago); but after twenty plus years essentially running only one business (the James Bond business), Cubby was bound to come up with some terrible ideas.

    It’s the nature of the business, it’s the nature of being human and fallible (we can’t come up with great ideas and solutions 100% of the time).

    As for Babs, until you’ve run a successful film franchise for twenty plus years, with there no sign of it not continuing its successes, I think we can assume she’s a savvy film producer and businesswoman. You may not personally like the direction she’s taken, which is your right, but more people in this world flood to her product time and again (and she is just as guilty of poor choices as anyone else; trick is, like her Dad, she gets her product more right than wrong. SP was a misstep. Lets see how she responds— not having Waltz back is a strong indicator that she’s taking steps in improving on her last outing)

    100% agree with you. Having worked with both Cubby and Barbara way back on LTK, I can tell you everyone hugely respected them. To keep a franchise going for 55 years is simply astonishing and I think some fans on this forum underestimate what an achievement that is and what talent and, as you say, savvy it takes. I also agree that this news about Waltz indicates they are determined to improve on SP - although I must say I find a lot to enjoy and admire in that film - for me, they failed to give Blofeld a strong and dramatically exciting master-plan and as a result the last third (last act if u like) doesn't really have anywhere to go.

    I am not doubting in the slightest their technical abilities as producers in getting the money together or know whom to call or to hire for what project.
    What I'm doubting are their creative abilities. From the beginning the forte of Broccoli was the money part. After all it was Salzman who had secured the rights on the Bond franchise for himself, but didn't have the money to do it alone. Cubby was kind of a stranger to the movie business and only brought by Salzman to it. He also had to be convinced heavily by Young and HS to invest in those saville row suits we today so much take for granted for the 60ies.
    It is not pure coincidence that he never produced something else then bond movies. He wasn't even interested in it. All he wanted was a profit for granted and no experiments. Just look at the unevenness of so many Bond movies just because they weren't brave enough to go to whole 9 yards (LTK comes to mind, for example). Be it father or daughter.
    HS On the other hand produced other movies (Call me Bawana of FRWL fame,for instance.)which by the way was the reason he had to sell his part of EON, since he had tanked big time with one of his projects.

    He didn't need to sell his part of Bond because of other films he produced. It was his investment in Technicolor.
  • Posts: 1,162
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    From the beginning the forte of Broccoli was the money part. After all it was Salzman who had secured the rights on the Bond franchise for himself, but didn't have the money to do it alone. Cubby was kind of a stranger to the movie business and only brought by Salzman to it.

    @noSolaceleft Broccoli a stranger to the movie business? Both had producing credits prior to DN. Broccoli more then Saltzman.

    I stand corrected, even though he seems to have have been quite up for failure before the good times began. Might explain why he shunned producing something else than Bond flics
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I'd contend that Babs has taken far more creative chances than Cubby.

    Partly it's perhaps because she's had to (the market is changing and has changed so much over the past 20 years) and partly I think it's because it's who she is. Keep in mind she is operating under a different business paradigm as well, with a partner (MGM) that can't distribute. So we have a distributor giving their advice and input as well. 3 fingers in the creative pie.

    I read an interview with her daughter recently, who's a bit of an artsy fartsy, and I can imagine some of this is rubbing off on her (or perhaps is in her too, and rubbed off on her daughter).

    Moreover, people change as they age and as their interests change.

    She started with the Cubby formulaic template (poorly executed mind you) with Brozza in the lead, and has now branched out to her vision (with her personally chosen and highly non traditional lead in Craig).

    I suspect that pure 'template or formula Bond' is unlikely to return while she's in charge, although I could be wrong.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I wouldn’t agree @noSolaceleft ; Cubby had plenty of talent as a producer. He and Harry kept the machine going, finding and hiring the talent to see their vision through, altering with the times (for better or worse, but being stagnant and stubborn, with no change, would have killed Bond decades ago); but after twenty plus years essentially running only one business (the James Bond business), Cubby was bound to come up with some terrible ideas.

    It’s the nature of the business, it’s the nature of being human and fallible (we can’t come up with great ideas and solutions 100% of the time).

    As for Babs, until you’ve run a successful film franchise for twenty plus years, with there no sign of it not continuing its successes, I think we can assume she’s a savvy film producer and businesswoman. You may not personally like the direction she’s taken, which is your right, but more people in this world flood to her product time and again (and she is just as guilty of poor choices as anyone else; trick is, like her Dad, she gets her product more right than wrong. SP was a misstep. Lets see how she responds— not having Waltz back is a strong indicator that she’s taking steps in improving on her last outing)

    100% agree with you. Having worked with both Cubby and Barbara way back on LTK, I can tell you everyone hugely respected them. To keep a franchise going for 55 years is simply astonishing and I think some fans on this forum underestimate what an achievement that is and what talent and, as you say, savvy it takes. I also agree that this news about Waltz indicates they are determined to improve on SP - although I must say I find a lot to enjoy and admire in that film - for me, they failed to give Blofeld a strong and dramatically exciting master-plan and as a result the last third (last act if u like) doesn't really have anywhere to go.

    I am not doubting in the slightest their technical abilities as producers in getting the money together or know whom to call or to hire for what project.
    What I'm doubting are their creative abilities. From the beginning the forte of Broccoli was the money part. After all it was Salzman who had secured the rights on the Bond franchise for himself, but didn't have the money to do it alone. Cubby was kind of a stranger to the movie business and only brought by Salzman to it. He also had to be convinced heavily by Young and HS to invest in those saville row suits we today so much take for granted for the 60ies.
    It is not pure coincidence that he never produced something else then bond movies. He wasn't even interested in it. All he wanted was a profit for granted and no experiments. Just look at the unevenness of so many Bond movies just because they weren't brave enough to go to whole 9 yards (LTK comes to mind, for example). Be it father or daughter.
    HS On the other hand produced other movies (Call me Bawana of FRWL fame,for instance.)which by the way was the reason he had to sell his part of EON, since he had tanked big time with one of his projects.

    Although some of your facts are questionable (Cubby was a producer in his own right before he teamed up with Harry and Call Me Bwana was an EON production not a Saltzman one - you might have been better mentioning the Harry Palmer films) but your general point stands.

    I'm not questioning Babs' organising abilities to finance and get these mammoth productions of the ground and bring them in on time.

    What is certainly under severe scrutiny are some of the decisions she has signed off on especially recently; namely stepbrothergate and being in thrall to Mendes and his excesses.

    I see a lot of people trying to defend Babs on the basis that Cubby made terrible decisions too as if two wrongs make a right. Cubby (rightly) gets slated for the kung fu schoolgirls, the double take pigeon, California girls etc but these are mostly throwaway things that don't impact on the narrative and cripple the rest of the film. Stepbrothergate was staggeringly misguided from someone who in every interview you see says when in doubt they always go back to Fleming.

    And lest we forget Harry wasn't perfect. We only narrowly dodged his legendary elephant stampede.
  • Posts: 1,031
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I wouldn’t agree @noSolaceleft ; Cubby had plenty of talent as a producer. He and Harry kept the machine going, finding and hiring the talent to see their vision through, altering with the times (for better or worse, but being stagnant and stubborn, with no change, would have killed Bond decades ago); but after twenty plus years essentially running only one business (the James Bond business), Cubby was bound to come up with some terrible ideas.

    It’s the nature of the business, it’s the nature of being human and fallible (we can’t come up with great ideas and solutions 100% of the time).

    As for Babs, until you’ve run a successful film franchise for twenty plus years, with there no sign of it not continuing its successes, I think we can assume she’s a savvy film producer and businesswoman. You may not personally like the direction she’s taken, which is your right, but more people in this world flood to her product time and again (and she is just as guilty of poor choices as anyone else; trick is, like her Dad, she gets her product more right than wrong. SP was a misstep. Lets see how she responds— not having Waltz back is a strong indicator that she’s taking steps in improving on her last outing)

    100% agree with you. Having worked with both Cubby and Barbara way back on LTK, I can tell you everyone hugely respected them. To keep a franchise going for 55 years is simply astonishing and I think some fans on this forum underestimate what an achievement that is and what talent and, as you say, savvy it takes. I also agree that this news about Waltz indicates they are determined to improve on SP - although I must say I find a lot to enjoy and admire in that film - for me, they failed to give Blofeld a strong and dramatically exciting master-plan and as a result the last third (last act if u like) doesn't really have anywhere to go.

    I am not doubting in the slightest their technical abilities as producers in getting the money together or know whom to call or to hire for what project.
    What I'm doubting are their creative abilities. From the beginning the forte of Broccoli was the money part. After all it was Salzman who had secured the rights on the Bond franchise for himself, but didn't have the money to do it alone. Cubby was kind of a stranger to the movie business and only brought by Salzman to it. He also had to be convinced heavily by Young and HS to invest in those saville row suits we today so much take for granted for the 60ies.
    It is not pure coincidence that he never produced something else then bond movies. He wasn't even interested in it. All he wanted was a profit for granted and no experiments. Just look at the unevenness of so many Bond movies just because they weren't brave enough to go to whole 9 yards (LTK comes to mind, for example). Be it father or daughter.
    HS On the other hand produced other movies (Call me Bawana of FRWL fame,for instance.)which by the way was the reason he had to sell his part of EON, since he had tanked big time with one of his projects.

    Although some of your facts are questionable (Cubby was a producer in his own right before he teamed up with Harry and Call Me Bwana was an EON production not a Saltzman one - you might have been better mentioning the Harry Palmer films) but your general point stands.

    I'm not questioning Babs' organising abilities to finance and get these mammoth productions of the ground and bring them in on time.

    What is certainly under severe scrutiny are some of the decisions she has signed off on especially recently; namely stepbrothergate and being in thrall to Mendes and his excesses.

    I see a lot of people trying to defend Babs on the basis that Cubby made terrible decisions too as if two wrongs make a right. Cubby (rightly) gets slated for the kung fu schoolgirls, the double take pigeon, California girls etc but these are mostly throwaway things that don't impact on the narrative and cripple the rest of the film. Stepbrothergate was staggeringly misguided from someone who in every interview you see says when in doubt they always go back to Fleming.

    And lest we forget Harry wasn't perfect. We only narrowly dodged his legendary elephant stampede.

    You are so right, no one can dispute that.
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