No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Fleming never wanted bond to be a period piece character doing a peirod piece novel flies in the face of that.
    Fleming never said anything about Bond's setting being a period piece or present day.

    Fleming wrote him as a modern man. He kept that consistency across his ouvre. I would say the evidence points more favourably to Fleming envisaging his hero being rooted in modernity, than one strictly confined by the period he inhabited before Ian's death.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    RC7 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Fleming never wanted bond to be a period piece character doing a peirod piece novel flies in the face of that.
    Fleming never said anything about Bond's setting being a period piece or present day.

    Fleming wrote him as a modern man. He kept that consistency across his ouvre. I would say the evidence points more favourably to Fleming envisaging his hero being rooted in modernity, than one strictly confined by the period he inhabited before Ian's death.
    He still didn't say anything about Bond's being to be insisted in his maintenance in a present day ground. Back in the day, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote Holmes as a modern day man, too... And he later changed it. But, that's another story.

    There's no evidence of Fleming saying Bond should stay as a modern man. That's only a rule started by fans.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Fleming never wanted bond to be a period piece character doing a peirod piece novel flies in the face of that.
    Fleming never said anything about Bond's setting being a period piece or present day.

    Fleming wrote him as a modern man. He kept that consistency across his ouvre. I would say the evidence points more favourably to Fleming envisaging his hero being rooted in modernity, than one strictly confined by the period he inhabited before Ian's death.
    He still didn't say anything about Bond's being to be insisted in his maintenance in a present day ground. Back in the day, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote Holmes as a modern day man, too... And he later changed it. But, that's another story.

    There's no evidence of Fleming saying Bond should stay as a modern man. That's only a rule started by fans.

    And there's no evidence he would've wanted Bond to remain a product of the fifties, but I firmly believe had he kept writing he would've adjusted to the period. 70's etc. For me it comes down to taste, you cannot trump the atmosphere and world of the Fleming novels. Certainly not in the cinematic world of 2016.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Fleming never wanted bond to be a period piece character doing a peirod piece novel flies in the face of that.
    Fleming never said anything about Bond's setting being a period piece or present day.

    Fleming wrote him as a modern man. He kept that consistency across his ouvre. I would say the evidence points more favourably to Fleming envisaging his hero being rooted in modernity, than one strictly confined by the period he inhabited before Ian's death.
    He still didn't say anything about Bond's being to be insisted in his maintenance in a present day ground. Back in the day, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote Holmes as a modern day man, too... And he later changed it. But, that's another story.

    There's no evidence of Fleming saying Bond should stay as a modern man. That's only a rule started by fans.

    And there's no evidence he would've wanted Bond to remain a product of the fifties, but I firmly believe had he kept writing he would've adjusted to the period. 70's etc. For me it comes down to taste, you cannot trump the atmosphere and world of the Fleming novels. Certainly not in the cinematic world of 2016.
    Of course. I didn't say there was. Fleming just wrote it as he went with it.

    And if you ask me, personally, characters like Bond don't really work in a 21st century setting. At least from my perspective. None of the pulp fiction era characters work in this current times. Nowadays, characters like Jason Bourne and Jack Bauer are the ones we see taking the helm of the thrilling adventures.
  • Posts: 4,325
    I read somewhere I'm sure that Fleming told EON that he wanted them to always set the films in the present day.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Well, I'd like to see it. Then, I'll stand corrected and rest my case.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    In YOLT Fleming adjusted Bond's timeline to stay contemporary.

    The new continuation novels that stick to Fleming's timeline run the risk of not being relevant to modern readers.

    The film series would be even worse. Even just introducing Bond's "new" gadgets would be eh ok...
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Again, it doesn't bring any evidence. As I said, Fleming wrote it as he went with it. It's the fans who insist that Bond should stay as a modern man. I didn't hear anything from the writer himself discussing Bond's relevance in whichever setting.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Again, it doesn't bring any evidence. As I said, Fleming wrote it as he went with it. It's the fans who insist that Bond should stay as a modern man. I didn't hear anything from the writer himself discussing Bond's relevance in whichever setting.

    It's not just the fans. EON regularly reference the need for Bond to be contemporary. This is one such quote from Babs.

    It basically comes down to Ian Fleming. I think he wrote a very complex character that has been able to evolve through the decades, with the assistance of the extraordinary men who have played the role, starting with Sean Connery who established the role to great effect in Dr. No, and all the subsequent actors have taken it and made it their own and made it of their time.

    That sums it up for me. Fleming provided the raw ingredients, Bond's psyche can remain pretty much the same and his emotional core remains constant. It's the world around him that changes and you see incremental changes to the portrayal that reflect that. I don't think there's any pressing need to alter that trajectory. The hankering for the fifties reminds me of the fanboy crowing over things like the DB5. It's the comfort blanket of nostalgia that sounds wonderful in theory, but is never truly invigorating in practice. It's been done better before.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited April 2016 Posts: 4,116
    RC7 wrote: »
    Again, it doesn't bring any evidence. As I said, Fleming wrote it as he went with it. It's the fans who insist that Bond should stay as a modern man. I didn't hear anything from the writer himself discussing Bond's relevance in whichever setting.

    It's not just the fans. EON regularly reference the need for Bond to be contemporary. This is one such quote from Babs.

    It basically comes down to Ian Fleming. I think he wrote a very complex character that has been able to evolve through the decades, with the assistance of the extraordinary men who have played the role, starting with Sean Connery who established the role to great effect in Dr. No, and all the subsequent actors have taken it and made it their own and made it of their time.

    That sums it up for me. Fleming provided the raw ingredients, Bond's psyche can remain pretty much the same and his emotional core remains constant. It's the world around him that changes and you see incremental changes to the portrayal that reflect that. I don't think there's any pressing need to alter that trajectory. The hankering for the fifties reminds me of the fanboy crowing over things like the DB5. It's the comfort blanket of nostalgia that sounds wonderful in theory, but is never truly invigorating in practice. It's been done better before.

    Agreed.

    Personally any cinematic Bond outside contemporary seems boring and so what. Bond already has to battle naysayers that say he's done and we need let Bourne or whomever rule the roost...

    Absolutely not. I'm with Babs...
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Well, that is Eon and the way they want to handle the films. Fleming did provide all the ingredients, yes. But, whatever the film producers want to go with doesn't really match up to what the original author might have intended. Of course. We can all agree that by the time the Roger Moore era happened, Bond was nothing like the original character of the books. The films evolved with the time because that's a wider media type of a business and it has to attract the modern audience with every new entry as long as they have the rights to produce and make films based on the Bond universe.

    Whereas Ian Fleming Publications had two of their recent novels set in a period piece, with only one of them post-Benson era had a modern setting that wasn't welcomed for a reason, and they keep doing period pieces all over again. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Bond novel also features a Cold War setting instead of modern-day ground. Dynamite Entertainment does the most sensible thing, releasing Bond comics with two different timelines: One in a 21st century universe, and the other a period piece (which is yet to be making its debut).

    I think it's all about business as I said. Whatever they can hold onto, they'll play it safe. And no, I certainly am not being a fanboy at all, just wanting a direct point of mine to be proven wrong. If the author intended whichever setting he wanted his character to remain in, he would've stated so. But, he didn't. As for film producers, they'll say anything and only do business based on whatever works to grab money in the times they live in.
  • RC7RC7
    edited April 2016 Posts: 10,512
    Well, that is Eon and the way they want to handle the films. Fleming did provide all the ingredients, yes. But, whatever the film producers want to go with doesn't really match up to what the original author might have intended. Of course. We can all agree that by the time the Roger Moore era happened, Bond was nothing like the original character of the books. The films evolved with the time because that's a wider media type of a business and it has to attract the modern audience with every new entry as long as they have the rights to produce and make films based on the Bond universe.

    Whereas Ian Fleming Publications had two of their recent novels set in a period piece, with only one of them post-Benson era had a modern setting that wasn't welcomed for a reason, and they keep doing period pieces all over again. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Bond novel also features a Cold War setting instead of modern-day ground. Dynamite Entertainment does the most sensible thing, releasing Bond comics with two different timelines: One in a 21st century universe, and the other a period piece (which is yet to be making its debut).

    I think it's all about business as I said. Whatever they can hold onto, they'll play it safe. And no, I certainly am not being a fanboy at all, just wanting a direct point of mine to be proven wrong. If the author intended whichever setting he wanted his character to remain in, he would've stated so. But, he didn't. As for film producers, they'll say anything and only do business based on whatever works to grab money in the times they live in.

    This isn't really an argument as there is nothing concrete from Fleming, so you'll find no one proving you either right or wrong. Logic says to me that Fleming would have continued to write Bond as a contemporary protagonist had he lived. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. The fact he did not specify would bolster that argument. If he were adamant his creation should remain rooted in the era he would've made it crystal. As it is, his depressingly short canon was always rooted in modernity.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    RC7 wrote: »
    Well, that is Eon and the way they want to handle the films. Fleming did provide all the ingredients, yes. But, whatever the film producers want to go with doesn't really match up to what the original author might have intended. Of course. We can all agree that by the time the Roger Moore era happened, Bond was nothing like the original character of the books. The films evolved with the time because that's a wider media type of a business and it has to attract the modern audience with every new entry as long as they have the rights to produce and make films based on the Bond universe.

    Whereas Ian Fleming Publications had two of their recent novels set in a period piece, with only one of them post-Benson era had a modern setting that wasn't welcomed for a reason, and they keep doing period pieces all over again. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Bond novel also features a Cold War setting instead of modern-day ground. Dynamite Entertainment does the most sensible thing, releasing Bond comics with two different timelines: One in a 21st century universe, and the other a period piece (which is yet to be making its debut).

    I think it's all about business as I said. Whatever they can hold onto, they'll play it safe. And no, I certainly am not being a fanboy at all, just wanting a direct point of mine to be proven wrong. If the author intended whichever setting he wanted his character to remain in, he would've stated so. But, he didn't. As for film producers, they'll say anything and only do business based on whatever works to grab money in the times they live in.

    This isn't really an argument as there is nothing concrete from Fleming, so you'll find no one proving you either right or wrong. Logic says to me that Fleming would have continued to write Bond as a contemporary protagonist had he lived. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. The fact he did not specify would bolster that argument. If he were adamant his creation should remain rooted in the era he would've made it crystal. As it is, his depressingly short canon was always rooted in modernity.
    In a way, Fleming left it open, so whoever comes after him to develop the character further, it's entirely up to the creativity of the person/people given the mantle. Those who prefer it modern, will do modern. Those who prefer it to be a period piece, will do period piece. That's my understanding.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    The performance of CB is probably ascribed to it being a contemporary setting. Shame because the probable reason is that CB was not all that great.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    The performance of CB is probably ascribed to it being a contemporary setting. Shame because the probable reason is that CB was not all that great.
    I thought you liked VARGR. :D
  • RC7RC7
    edited April 2016 Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    Well, that is Eon and the way they want to handle the films. Fleming did provide all the ingredients, yes. But, whatever the film producers want to go with doesn't really match up to what the original author might have intended. Of course. We can all agree that by the time the Roger Moore era happened, Bond was nothing like the original character of the books. The films evolved with the time because that's a wider media type of a business and it has to attract the modern audience with every new entry as long as they have the rights to produce and make films based on the Bond universe.

    Whereas Ian Fleming Publications had two of their recent novels set in a period piece, with only one of them post-Benson era had a modern setting that wasn't welcomed for a reason, and they keep doing period pieces all over again. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Bond novel also features a Cold War setting instead of modern-day ground. Dynamite Entertainment does the most sensible thing, releasing Bond comics with two different timelines: One in a 21st century universe, and the other a period piece (which is yet to be making its debut).

    I think it's all about business as I said. Whatever they can hold onto, they'll play it safe. And no, I certainly am not being a fanboy at all, just wanting a direct point of mine to be proven wrong. If the author intended whichever setting he wanted his character to remain in, he would've stated so. But, he didn't. As for film producers, they'll say anything and only do business based on whatever works to grab money in the times they live in.

    This isn't really an argument as there is nothing concrete from Fleming, so you'll find no one proving you either right or wrong. Logic says to me that Fleming would have continued to write Bond as a contemporary protagonist had he lived. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. The fact he did not specify would bolster that argument. If he were adamant his creation should remain rooted in the era he would've made it crystal. As it is, his depressingly short canon was always rooted in modernity.
    In a way, Fleming left it open, so whoever comes after him to develop the character further, it's entirely up to the creativity of the person/people given the mantle. Those who prefer it modern, will do modern. Those who prefer it to be a period piece, will do period piece. That's my understanding.

    That's naturally what happens with all literary work, which is why I'm happy with EON's ethos as torchbearers for what many see as the official canon. I enjoyed 'Trigger Mortis' as much as the next man, but regard the current official incarnation of Bond, I think its important they don't stray too far from the path that has served them well for 54 years. I genuinely think they have to keep moving forward and allow people to get their nostalgia kicks from ancillary channels and literary releases.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Well, that is Eon and the way they want to handle the films. Fleming did provide all the ingredients, yes. But, whatever the film producers want to go with doesn't really match up to what the original author might have intended. Of course. We can all agree that by the time the Roger Moore era happened, Bond was nothing like the original character of the books. The films evolved with the time because that's a wider media type of a business and it has to attract the modern audience with every new entry as long as they have the rights to produce and make films based on the Bond universe.

    Whereas Ian Fleming Publications had two of their recent novels set in a period piece, with only one of them post-Benson era had a modern setting that wasn't welcomed for a reason, and they keep doing period pieces all over again. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Bond novel also features a Cold War setting instead of modern-day ground. Dynamite Entertainment does the most sensible thing, releasing Bond comics with two different timelines: One in a 21st century universe, and the other a period piece (which is yet to be making its debut).

    I think it's all about business as I said. Whatever they can hold onto, they'll play it safe. And no, I certainly am not being a fanboy at all, just wanting a direct point of mine to be proven wrong. If the author intended whichever setting he wanted his character to remain in, he would've stated so. But, he didn't. As for film producers, they'll say anything and only do business based on whatever works to grab money in the times they live in.

    This isn't really an argument as there is nothing concrete from Fleming, so you'll find no one proving you either right or wrong. Logic says to me that Fleming would have continued to write Bond as a contemporary protagonist had he lived. There is nothing to suggest otherwise. The fact he did not specify would bolster that argument. If he were adamant his creation should remain rooted in the era he would've made it crystal. As it is, his depressingly short canon was always rooted in modernity.
    In a way, Fleming left it open, so whoever comes after him to develop the character further, it's entirely up to the creativity of the person/people given the mantle. Those who prefer it modern, will do modern. Those who prefer it to be a period piece, will do period piece. That's my understanding.

    That's naturally what happens with all literary work, which is why I'm happy with EON's ethos as torchbearers for what many see as the official canon. I enjoyed 'Trigger Mortis' as much as the next man, but regard the current official incarnation of Bond, I think its important they don't stray too far from the path that has served them well for 54 years. I genuinely think they have to keep moving forward and allow people to get their nostalgia kicks from ancillary channels and literary releases.
    Well put.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited April 2016 Posts: 4,116
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    The performance of CB is probably ascribed to it being a contemporary setting. Shame because the probable reason is that CB was not all that great.
    I thought you liked VARGR. :D

    I do like Vargr. :)

    Let me rephrase. I think CB underperformed because of the quality of the book not because of the modern setting.

    I think IFF's solution to keep Bond dated isn't necessarily the answer to increase sales.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Well, that is Eon and the way they want to handle the films. Fleming did provide all the ingredients, yes. But, whatever the film producers want to go with doesn't really match up to what the original author might have intended. Of course. We can all agree that by the time the Roger Moore era happened, Bond was nothing like the original character of the books. The films evolved with the time because that's a wider media type of a business and it has to attract the modern audience with every new entry as long as they have the rights to produce and make films based on the Bond universe.

    Whereas Ian Fleming Publications had two of their recent novels set in a period piece, with only one of them post-Benson era had a modern setting that wasn't welcomed for a reason, and they keep doing period pieces all over again. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Bond novel also features a Cold War setting instead of modern-day ground. Dynamite Entertainment does the most sensible thing, releasing Bond comics with two different timelines: One in a 21st century universe, and the other a period piece (which is yet to be making its debut).

    I think it's all about business as I said. Whatever they can hold onto, they'll play it safe. And no, I certainly am not being a fanboy at all, just wanting a direct point of mine to be proven wrong. If the author intended whichever setting he wanted his character to remain in, he would've stated so. But, he didn't. As for film producers, they'll say anything and only do business based on whatever works to grab money in the times they live in.

    Fleming wanted the filmmakers to always set the films in the present.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Well, that is Eon and the way they want to handle the films. Fleming did provide all the ingredients, yes. But, whatever the film producers want to go with doesn't really match up to what the original author might have intended. Of course. We can all agree that by the time the Roger Moore era happened, Bond was nothing like the original character of the books. The films evolved with the time because that's a wider media type of a business and it has to attract the modern audience with every new entry as long as they have the rights to produce and make films based on the Bond universe.

    Whereas Ian Fleming Publications had two of their recent novels set in a period piece, with only one of them post-Benson era had a modern setting that wasn't welcomed for a reason, and they keep doing period pieces all over again. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Bond novel also features a Cold War setting instead of modern-day ground. Dynamite Entertainment does the most sensible thing, releasing Bond comics with two different timelines: One in a 21st century universe, and the other a period piece (which is yet to be making its debut).

    I think it's all about business as I said. Whatever they can hold onto, they'll play it safe. And no, I certainly am not being a fanboy at all, just wanting a direct point of mine to be proven wrong. If the author intended whichever setting he wanted his character to remain in, he would've stated so. But, he didn't. As for film producers, they'll say anything and only do business based on whatever works to grab money in the times they live in.

    Fleming wanted the filmmakers to always set the films in the present.
    When or where did he say it, if you don't mind me asking?
  • Posts: 4,325
    I can't remember but he definitely said that to them - not spending time now trying to find it.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Well, I'll look it up since you do claim he actually said it.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Well, I'll look it up since you do claim he actually said it.

    I'm sure he did.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I personally don't have any issue whatsoever with a 'period' piece for a limited run. If executed properly, it could be quite compelling. If not properly thought through and given lip service, it could be a disaster.

    The Bond character, with all his quirks and behaviours, does exist more comfortably in an earlier time, and quite frankly I've not been happy about the watering down of some of the character traits over the years, and the attempts to inject contemporary sensibilities into his repertoire. Some of that is what makes Bond 'Bond', and differentiates him from more mundane fare.

    I just don't see it happening though, so the discussion is moot.
  • Posts: 9,848
    RC7 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Fleming never wanted bond to be a period piece character doing a peirod piece novel flies in the face of that.
    Fleming never said anything about Bond's setting being a period piece or present day.

    Fleming wrote him as a modern man. He kept that consistency across his ouvre. I would say the evidence points more favourably to Fleming envisaging his hero being rooted in modernity, than one strictly confined by the period he inhabited before Ian's death.

    Thank you!!

    Like I said fleming's bond was always of the time as referenced in Ursula Andress showing up in the novel OHMSS

    Plus I hate to sound like a purest but you can't do bond in the 60's better then the first few Connery films and for novels Fleming is the best for the 60's

    With continuation authors and film makers really set it today bring bond firmly in the modern era. The only exception is a lot of people have come across s lack of 70's bond stories in a literary sense and I would be slightly intrigued with that but for the most part would prefer modern day stories in film and literature.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited April 2016 Posts: 10,591
    Agreed with those who are against it. Bond should always reflect the time that we live in.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    jake24 wrote: »
    Agreed with those who are against it. Bond should always reflect the time that we live in.

    Agreed ...at least for the films.
  • Posts: 1,970
    I actually feel had Fleming lived longer he would have killed off Bond in a future novel.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I prefer the novels to be set on present day as well but I appreciate those who prefer the Fleming or close to the Fleming timeline.

    And @fjdinardo maybe so.
  • Posts: 2,483
    So, five months later, Broccoli and Craig are denying Whishaw is playing Q. Craig adds the bit about how "Agents are liars." That's a reference to Whishaw's agent who said his client was playing Q. Another three months after that, Whishaw's part is announced. Whishaw's agent is proven to be correct. Craig, not so much.

    Dishonesty is now regarded as a virtue rather than a flaw. O tempora! O mores!

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