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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • barryt007barryt007
    edited January 2018 Posts: 19,339
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Nothing new about the SF matter. I pointed the same thing out months ago on this thread. ;)

    I don’t like the aspect that he’s suggesting to leave out the sexiness of women just because he finds it misogynistic, though (is that even used accurately nowadays?). I think despite all these, Bond needs his ravishing Bond Girls around him. I have to say... with the rest, I do agree with him.
    Oh, I completely agree @ClarkDevlin. Even though it's unlikely in a B25 with Craig, I hope we get at least one shot of a well formed female figure in a bikini, rather than a male in his blue swimwear (although we're probably up for that in the next one since they seem to do it once every other film with him).

    I didn't realize you'd mentioned the bullet issue. Another negative on the SF logic train.
    I couldn’t agree more. I’d rather we have an eye catching Bond Girl in a lacy lingerie or a two piece bikini that you’d see on Sports Illustrated or Victoria’s Secret catalogs. Give me that over the “tortured soul Bond woman” that all of Craig’s leading ladies seem to play.

    It wasn’t more the bullet but Bond playing dead and not going after Patrice immediately when he held on to a very serious hardware that could do global damage. But, I digress.

    The "tortured soul" idea is how Fleming wrote a lot of them though isn't it? More often than not the girls in the books were damaged/broken/vulnerable, so really this is just the Craig films sticking close to the source material. I've probably missed a few in my head but Gala, Solitaire and Tatiana are the only ones I can think of who didn't have some sort of tragic backstory. Severine's backstory felt very Fleming to me, he seemed to have a weird thing for rape victims.
    I have to agree, Fleming quite a number of times incorporated sadism in his novels. Men, especially Bond himself, got a lot of physical torture, and women many times were equally misconducted. In that regard, Madeleine´s childhood story would also fit.
    But I think it´s not so much the female characters that make recent Bond films such a drag, but the overall way of handling the films, and how Bond´s character comes out of the situation. I think I wouldn´t have a problem with a grumpy Bond, if the film on the whole wouldn´t be so incongruous as the last two, with confused supporting character dynamics, and dumb attempts at humor.
    What I like about the cinematic incarnation of the Bond Girl template pre-reboot, regardless of their tragic backgrounds, they weren't doom and gloom. And dare I say, not all the abuse victim Bond Girls in the novels were moody or grumpy whereas the women in Craig's Bonds mostly are, specifically Camille and even more so Madeleine.

    Now, let's talk Domino. She was wronged by Largo quite often, even in the Eon film, but you never got the impression from her that she didn't enjoy life and the perks she had rather than being all damn grumpy her way around.

    So, source material isn't that all the Bond Girls are depressed, moody and grumpy women. Most of them have tragic backgrounds, yes. But, the Craig films follow the Vesper Lynd template with the excited portion of her persona cut out, even though I love Severine and regret that she wasn't used more in the film.

    That's fair enough. I guess they didn't want to trivialise the tragic backstories so they went with tortured/moody portrayals with Camille and Madeline.

    I think they struck a really good balance with Vesper and Severine though. Severine especially feels so fleshed out and real in how she hides how tortured/vulnerable she is and she's so effortlessly fit and charismatic. In a way, as horrible as it is to say this, I think it makes the tragic backstories more sympathetic when they still have a fun/charming side, because you grow to like them at first and then find out they've actually been through some messed up stuff and feel sorry for them. Whereas if you're introduced to a Bond girl moping or scowling, it's a bad first impression, (even if it is more realistic in the context of what they've been through) so it's "oh, that's why they're like that" instead of "woah that's pretty messed up, she seems nice as well, that's a shame".

    I agree they should have used her more. She might be my favourite Bond girl to be honest. Either her, Kara or Natalya.

    Dear Lord have mercy............ [-O<

  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    barryt007 wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Nothing new about the SF matter. I pointed the same thing out months ago on this thread. ;)

    I don’t like the aspect that he’s suggesting to leave out the sexiness of women just because he finds it misogynistic, though (is that even used accurately nowadays?). I think despite all these, Bond needs his ravishing Bond Girls around him. I have to say... with the rest, I do agree with him.
    Oh, I completely agree @ClarkDevlin. Even though it's unlikely in a B25 with Craig, I hope we get at least one shot of a well formed female figure in a bikini, rather than a male in his blue swimwear (although we're probably up for that in the next one since they seem to do it once every other film with him).

    I didn't realize you'd mentioned the bullet issue. Another negative on the SF logic train.
    I couldn’t agree more. I’d rather we have an eye catching Bond Girl in a lacy lingerie or a two piece bikini that you’d see on Sports Illustrated or Victoria’s Secret catalogs. Give me that over the “tortured soul Bond woman” that all of Craig’s leading ladies seem to play.

    It wasn’t more the bullet but Bond playing dead and not going after Patrice immediately when he held on to a very serious hardware that could do global damage. But, I digress.

    The "tortured soul" idea is how Fleming wrote a lot of them though isn't it? More often than not the girls in the books were damaged/broken/vulnerable, so really this is just the Craig films sticking close to the source material. I've probably missed a few in my head but Gala, Solitaire and Tatiana are the only ones I can think of who didn't have some sort of tragic backstory. Severine's backstory felt very Fleming to me, he seemed to have a weird thing for rape victims.
    I have to agree, Fleming quite a number of times incorporated sadism in his novels. Men, especially Bond himself, got a lot of physical torture, and women many times were equally misconducted. In that regard, Madeleine´s childhood story would also fit.
    But I think it´s not so much the female characters that make recent Bond films such a drag, but the overall way of handling the films, and how Bond´s character comes out of the situation. I think I wouldn´t have a problem with a grumpy Bond, if the film on the whole wouldn´t be so incongruous as the last two, with confused supporting character dynamics, and dumb attempts at humor.
    What I like about the cinematic incarnation of the Bond Girl template pre-reboot, regardless of their tragic backgrounds, they weren't doom and gloom. And dare I say, not all the abuse victim Bond Girls in the novels were moody or grumpy whereas the women in Craig's Bonds mostly are, specifically Camille and even more so Madeleine.

    Now, let's talk Domino. She was wronged by Largo quite often, even in the Eon film, but you never got the impression from her that she didn't enjoy life and the perks she had rather than being all damn grumpy her way around.

    So, source material isn't that all the Bond Girls are depressed, moody and grumpy women. Most of them have tragic backgrounds, yes. But, the Craig films follow the Vesper Lynd template with the excited portion of her persona cut out, even though I love Severine and regret that she wasn't used more in the film.

    That's fair enough. I guess they didn't want to trivialise the tragic backstories so they went with tortured/moody portrayals with Camille and Madeline.

    I think they struck a really good balance with Vesper and Severine though. Severine especially feels so fleshed out and real in how she hides how tortured/vulnerable she is and she's so effortlessly fit and charismatic. In a way, as horrible as it is to say this, I think it makes the tragic backstories more sympathetic when they still have a fun/charming side, because you grow to like them at first and then find out they've actually been through some messed up stuff and feel sorry for them. Whereas if you're introduced to a Bond girl moping or scowling, it's a bad first impression, (even if it is more realistic in the context of what they've been through) so it's "oh, that's why they're like that" instead of "woah that's pretty messed up, she seems nice as well, that's a shame".

    I agree they should have used her more. She might be my favourite Bond girl to be honest. Either her, Kara or Natalya.

    Dear Lord have mercy............ [-o<

    Haha was wondering if you'd pipe up. She might not the fittest or most charismatic Bond girl but I really like her because she actually feels real and I thought her and Bond's relationship was sweet.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Nothing new about the SF matter. I pointed the same thing out months ago on this thread. ;)

    I don’t like the aspect that he’s suggesting to leave out the sexiness of women just because he finds it misogynistic, though (is that even used accurately nowadays?). I think despite all these, Bond needs his ravishing Bond Girls around him. I have to say... with the rest, I do agree with him.
    Oh, I completely agree @ClarkDevlin. Even though it's unlikely in a B25 with Craig, I hope we get at least one shot of a well formed female figure in a bikini, rather than a male in his blue swimwear (although we're probably up for that in the next one since they seem to do it once every other film with him).

    I didn't realize you'd mentioned the bullet issue. Another negative on the SF logic train.
    I couldn’t agree more. I’d rather we have an eye catching Bond Girl in a lacy lingerie or a two piece bikini that you’d see on Sports Illustrated or Victoria’s Secret catalogs. Give me that over the “tortured soul Bond woman” that all of Craig’s leading ladies seem to play.

    It wasn’t more the bullet but Bond playing dead and not going after Patrice immediately when he held on to a very serious hardware that could do global damage. But, I digress.

    The "tortured soul" idea is how Fleming wrote a lot of them though isn't it? More often than not the girls in the books were damaged/broken/vulnerable, so really this is just the Craig films sticking close to the source material. I've probably missed a few in my head but Gala, Solitaire and Tatiana are the only ones I can think of who didn't have some sort of tragic backstory. Severine's backstory felt very Fleming to me, he seemed to have a weird thing for rape victims.
    I have to agree, Fleming quite a number of times incorporated sadism in his novels. Men, especially Bond himself, got a lot of physical torture, and women many times were equally misconducted. In that regard, Madeleine´s childhood story would also fit.
    But I think it´s not so much the female characters that make recent Bond films such a drag, but the overall way of handling the films, and how Bond´s character comes out of the situation. I think I wouldn´t have a problem with a grumpy Bond, if the film on the whole wouldn´t be so incongruous as the last two, with confused supporting character dynamics, and dumb attempts at humor.
    What I like about the cinematic incarnation of the Bond Girl template pre-reboot, regardless of their tragic backgrounds, they weren't doom and gloom. And dare I say, not all the abuse victim Bond Girls in the novels were moody or grumpy whereas the women in Craig's Bonds mostly are, specifically Camille and even more so Madeleine.

    Now, let's talk Domino. She was wronged by Largo quite often, even in the Eon film, but you never got the impression from her that she didn't enjoy life and the perks she had rather than being all damn grumpy her way around.

    So, source material isn't that all the Bond Girls are depressed, moody and grumpy women. Most of them have tragic backgrounds, yes. But, the Craig films follow the Vesper Lynd template with the excited portion of her persona cut out, even though I love Severine and regret that she wasn't used more in the film.

    That's fair enough. I guess they didn't want to trivialise the tragic backstories so they went with tortured/moody portrayals with Camille and Madeline.

    I think they struck a really good balance with Vesper and Severine though. Severine especially feels so fleshed out and real in how she hides how tortured/vulnerable she is and she's so effortlessly fit and charismatic. In a way, as horrible as it is to say this, I think it makes the tragic backstories more sympathetic when they still have a fun/charming side, because you grow to like them at first and then find out they've actually been through some messed up stuff and feel sorry for them. Whereas if you're introduced to a Bond girl moping or scowling, it's a bad first impression, (even if it is more realistic in the context of what they've been through) so it's "oh, that's why they're like that" instead of "woah that's pretty messed up, she seems nice as well, that's a shame".

    I agree they should have used her more. She might be my favourite Bond girl to be honest. Either her, Kara or Natalya.

    Dear Lord have mercy............ [-o<

    Haha was wondering if you'd pipe up. She might not the fittest or most charismatic Bond girl but I really like her because she actually feels real and I thought her and Bond's relationship was sweet.

    :-&
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Nothing new about the SF matter. I pointed the same thing out months ago on this thread. ;)

    I don’t like the aspect that he’s suggesting to leave out the sexiness of women just because he finds it misogynistic, though (is that even used accurately nowadays?). I think despite all these, Bond needs his ravishing Bond Girls around him. I have to say... with the rest, I do agree with him.
    Oh, I completely agree @ClarkDevlin. Even though it's unlikely in a B25 with Craig, I hope we get at least one shot of a well formed female figure in a bikini, rather than a male in his blue swimwear (although we're probably up for that in the next one since they seem to do it once every other film with him).

    I didn't realize you'd mentioned the bullet issue. Another negative on the SF logic train.
    I couldn’t agree more. I’d rather we have an eye catching Bond Girl in a lacy lingerie or a two piece bikini that you’d see on Sports Illustrated or Victoria’s Secret catalogs. Give me that over the “tortured soul Bond woman” that all of Craig’s leading ladies seem to play.

    It wasn’t more the bullet but Bond playing dead and not going after Patrice immediately when he held on to a very serious hardware that could do global damage. But, I digress.

    The "tortured soul" idea is how Fleming wrote a lot of them though isn't it? More often than not the girls in the books were damaged/broken/vulnerable, so really this is just the Craig films sticking close to the source material. I've probably missed a few in my head but Gala, Solitaire and Tatiana are the only ones I can think of who didn't have some sort of tragic backstory. Severine's backstory felt very Fleming to me, he seemed to have a weird thing for rape victims.
    I have to agree, Fleming quite a number of times incorporated sadism in his novels. Men, especially Bond himself, got a lot of physical torture, and women many times were equally misconducted. In that regard, Madeleine´s childhood story would also fit.
    But I think it´s not so much the female characters that make recent Bond films such a drag, but the overall way of handling the films, and how Bond´s character comes out of the situation. I think I wouldn´t have a problem with a grumpy Bond, if the film on the whole wouldn´t be so incongruous as the last two, with confused supporting character dynamics, and dumb attempts at humor.
    What I like about the cinematic incarnation of the Bond Girl template pre-reboot, regardless of their tragic backgrounds, they weren't doom and gloom. And dare I say, not all the abuse victim Bond Girls in the novels were moody or grumpy whereas the women in Craig's Bonds mostly are, specifically Camille and even more so Madeleine.

    Now, let's talk Domino. She was wronged by Largo quite often, even in the Eon film, but you never got the impression from her that she didn't enjoy life and the perks she had rather than being all damn grumpy her way around.

    So, source material isn't that all the Bond Girls are depressed, moody and grumpy women. Most of them have tragic backgrounds, yes. But, the Craig films follow the Vesper Lynd template with the excited portion of her persona cut out, even though I love Severine and regret that she wasn't used more in the film.

    That's fair enough. I guess they didn't want to trivialise the tragic backstories so they went with tortured/moody portrayals with Camille and Madeline.

    I think they struck a really good balance with Vesper and Severine though. Severine especially feels so fleshed out and real in how she hides how tortured/vulnerable she is and she's so effortlessly fit and charismatic. In a way, as horrible as it is to say this, I think it makes the tragic backstories more sympathetic when they still have a fun/charming side, because you grow to like them at first and then find out they've actually been through some messed up stuff and feel sorry for them. Whereas if you're introduced to a Bond girl moping or scowling, it's a bad first impression, (even if it is more realistic in the context of what they've been through) so it's "oh, that's why they're like that" instead of "woah that's pretty messed up, she seems nice as well, that's a shame".

    I agree they should have used her more. She might be my favourite Bond girl to be honest. Either her, Kara or Natalya.
    +1. Summed up perfectly.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited January 2018 Posts: 8,243
    The character of Madeline didn't make much of an impression on me.
    I think it's safe to say that all involved would have benefitted from a stronger script.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Considering Madeline is Mr White’s daughter, that leads to all kinds of interesting possibilities for her character. But creative team failed.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited January 2018 Posts: 12,837
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Nothing new about the SF matter. I pointed the same thing out months ago on this thread. ;)

    I don’t like the aspect that he’s suggesting to leave out the sexiness of women just because he finds it misogynistic, though (is that even used accurately nowadays?). I think despite all these, Bond needs his ravishing Bond Girls around him. I have to say... with the rest, I do agree with him.
    Oh, I completely agree @ClarkDevlin. Even though it's unlikely in a B25 with Craig, I hope we get at least one shot of a well formed female figure in a bikini, rather than a male in his blue swimwear (although we're probably up for that in the next one since they seem to do it once every other film with him).

    I didn't realize you'd mentioned the bullet issue. Another negative on the SF logic train.
    I couldn’t agree more. I’d rather we have an eye catching Bond Girl in a lacy lingerie or a two piece bikini that you’d see on Sports Illustrated or Victoria’s Secret catalogs. Give me that over the “tortured soul Bond woman” that all of Craig’s leading ladies seem to play.

    It wasn’t more the bullet but Bond playing dead and not going after Patrice immediately when he held on to a very serious hardware that could do global damage. But, I digress.

    The "tortured soul" idea is how Fleming wrote a lot of them though isn't it? More often than not the girls in the books were damaged/broken/vulnerable, so really this is just the Craig films sticking close to the source material. I've probably missed a few in my head but Gala, Solitaire and Tatiana are the only ones I can think of who didn't have some sort of tragic backstory. Severine's backstory felt very Fleming to me, he seemed to have a weird thing for rape victims.
    I have to agree, Fleming quite a number of times incorporated sadism in his novels. Men, especially Bond himself, got a lot of physical torture, and women many times were equally misconducted. In that regard, Madeleine´s childhood story would also fit.
    But I think it´s not so much the female characters that make recent Bond films such a drag, but the overall way of handling the films, and how Bond´s character comes out of the situation. I think I wouldn´t have a problem with a grumpy Bond, if the film on the whole wouldn´t be so incongruous as the last two, with confused supporting character dynamics, and dumb attempts at humor.
    What I like about the cinematic incarnation of the Bond Girl template pre-reboot, regardless of their tragic backgrounds, they weren't doom and gloom. And dare I say, not all the abuse victim Bond Girls in the novels were moody or grumpy whereas the women in Craig's Bonds mostly are, specifically Camille and even more so Madeleine.

    Now, let's talk Domino. She was wronged by Largo quite often, even in the Eon film, but you never got the impression from her that she didn't enjoy life and the perks she had rather than being all damn grumpy her way around.

    So, source material isn't that all the Bond Girls are depressed, moody and grumpy women. Most of them have tragic backgrounds, yes. But, the Craig films follow the Vesper Lynd template with the excited portion of her persona cut out, even though I love Severine and regret that she wasn't used more in the film.

    That's fair enough. I guess they didn't want to trivialise the tragic backstories so they went with tortured/moody portrayals with Camille and Madeline.

    I think they struck a really good balance with Vesper and Severine though. Severine especially feels so fleshed out and real in how she hides how tortured/vulnerable she is and she's so effortlessly fit and charismatic. In a way, as horrible as it is to say this, I think it makes the tragic backstories more sympathetic when they still have a fun/charming side, because you grow to like them at first and then find out they've actually been through some messed up stuff and feel sorry for them. Whereas if you're introduced to a Bond girl moping or scowling, it's a bad first impression, (even if it is more realistic in the context of what they've been through) so it's "oh, that's why they're like that" instead of "woah that's pretty messed up, she seems nice as well, that's a shame".

    I agree they should have used her more. She might be my favourite Bond girl to be honest. Either her, Kara or Natalya.
    +1. Summed up perfectly.

    I think that's one of the problems with Madeline. We saw him and Vesper having a laugh together at several points. Madeline just seems pissed off at him or indifferent most of the time which makes the "I love you" seem kind of out of nowhere. The closest thing to them sharing an actual moment is the hotel room but that still doesn't really cut it, her being pissed and teasing him a bit. They're thrown together because of the Spectre situation and never seem to actually hit it off after that. I can understand them sleeping with eachother, heat of the moment and everything, but Madeline's feelings are harder to justify. That kind of relationship worked with Camille because that was just professional, nothing going on there. But for a Bond girl he's actually going to get together with there needs to be a rapport, a spark between them, especially if she's later meant to have fallen in love with him.

    In my head I just justify it as her being messed up and having unresolved daddy issues so she's latching onto Bond (older and an assassin like her dad) which I think works.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,514
    I don’t like that they pushed Madeleine to be a serious love interest. She’s not a bad character, but it didn’t make sense to have her be Bond’s next “true love,” so to speak. I would have preferred it be like an old Bond film where they end up together at the end of the movie, but you know she wouldn’t be returning. Now we don’t know. SP is one of the few Bond films that is steadily getting weaker for me, and the way they use Madeleine is a big part of that.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I don’t like that they pushed Madeleine to be a serious love interest. She’s not a bad character, but it didn’t make sense to have her be Bond’s next “true love,” so to speak. I would have preferred it be like an old Bond film where they end up together at the end of the movie, but you know she wouldn’t be returning. Now we don’t know. SP is one of the few Bond films that is steadily getting weaker for me, and the way they use Madeleine is a big part of that.

    SP is a weird one for me because it has loads of problems and I actually agree with a lot of the critics but I still really enjoy it. It just all comes together and works for me, hits so many of the right notes that I can get past the bad stuff, even if there is more obvious bad stuff than in my other favourites.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Nothing new about the SF matter. I pointed the same thing out months ago on this thread. ;)

    I don’t like the aspect that he’s suggesting to leave out the sexiness of women just because he finds it misogynistic, though (is that even used accurately nowadays?). I think despite all these, Bond needs his ravishing Bond Girls around him. I have to say... with the rest, I do agree with him.
    Oh, I completely agree @ClarkDevlin. Even though it's unlikely in a B25 with Craig, I hope we get at least one shot of a well formed female figure in a bikini, rather than a male in his blue swimwear (although we're probably up for that in the next one since they seem to do it once every other film with him).

    I didn't realize you'd mentioned the bullet issue. Another negative on the SF logic train.
    I couldn’t agree more. I’d rather we have an eye catching Bond Girl in a lacy lingerie or a two piece bikini that you’d see on Sports Illustrated or Victoria’s Secret catalogs. Give me that over the “tortured soul Bond woman” that all of Craig’s leading ladies seem to play.

    It wasn’t more the bullet but Bond playing dead and not going after Patrice immediately when he held on to a very serious hardware that could do global damage. But, I digress.

    The "tortured soul" idea is how Fleming wrote a lot of them though isn't it? More often than not the girls in the books were damaged/broken/vulnerable, so really this is just the Craig films sticking close to the source material. I've probably missed a few in my head but Gala, Solitaire and Tatiana are the only ones I can think of who didn't have some sort of tragic backstory. Severine's backstory felt very Fleming to me, he seemed to have a weird thing for rape victims.
    I have to agree, Fleming quite a number of times incorporated sadism in his novels. Men, especially Bond himself, got a lot of physical torture, and women many times were equally misconducted. In that regard, Madeleine´s childhood story would also fit.
    But I think it´s not so much the female characters that make recent Bond films such a drag, but the overall way of handling the films, and how Bond´s character comes out of the situation. I think I wouldn´t have a problem with a grumpy Bond, if the film on the whole wouldn´t be so incongruous as the last two, with confused supporting character dynamics, and dumb attempts at humor.
    What I like about the cinematic incarnation of the Bond Girl template pre-reboot, regardless of their tragic backgrounds, they weren't doom and gloom. And dare I say, not all the abuse victim Bond Girls in the novels were moody or grumpy whereas the women in Craig's Bonds mostly are, specifically Camille and even more so Madeleine.

    Now, let's talk Domino. She was wronged by Largo quite often, even in the Eon film, but you never got the impression from her that she didn't enjoy life and the perks she had rather than being all damn grumpy her way around.

    So, source material isn't that all the Bond Girls are depressed, moody and grumpy women. Most of them have tragic backgrounds, yes. But, the Craig films follow the Vesper Lynd template with the excited portion of her persona cut out, even though I love Severine and regret that she wasn't used more in the film.

    That's fair enough. I guess they didn't want to trivialise the tragic backstories so they went with tortured/moody portrayals with Camille and Madeline.

    I think they struck a really good balance with Vesper and Severine though. Severine especially feels so fleshed out and real in how she hides how tortured/vulnerable she is and she's so effortlessly fit and charismatic. In a way, as horrible as it is to say this, I think it makes the tragic backstories more sympathetic when they still have a fun/charming side, because you grow to like them at first and then find out they've actually been through some messed up stuff and feel sorry for them. Whereas if you're introduced to a Bond girl moping or scowling, it's a bad first impression, (even if it is more realistic in the context of what they've been through) so it's "oh, that's why they're like that" instead of "woah that's pretty messed up, she seems nice as well, that's a shame".

    I agree they should have used her more. She might be my favourite Bond girl to be honest. Either her, Kara or Natalya.
    +1. Summed up perfectly.

    I think that's one of the problems with Madeline. We saw him and Vesper having a laugh together at several points. She just seems pissed off at him most of the time which makes the "I love you" seem kind of out of nowhere.

    In my head I just justify it as her being messed up and having unresolved daddy issues so she's latching onto Bond (older and an assassin like her dad) which I think works.
    Madeleine's problem definitely had "daddy issues" written all over her, even though it's not comprehensive for the general viewer who's not connected to the film as he/she should be (let's face it, Spectre was never engaging). Personally, I never bought her confession to Bond in the middle of that torture scene, but if we pscyho-analyze it, it must've been triggered from the sympathy she felt for him, adding to that he was of the same kind as her father. Then, she resorts to leave him in London, which perfectly discards that "I love you" claim she made earlier. It definitely wasn't a genuine one.

    ...whereas what Bond and Vesper had was pure and very convincing. In fact, if I'm truthful, I never felt any couple to be perfectly a match for one another in the Bond films the way Bond and Vesper were.
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    If waltz is truly not coming back as blofeld then i say christopher plummer would be a great final villain for craig.
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    Goldeneye0094 wrote: »
    If waltz is truly not coming back as blofeld then i say christopher plummer would be a great final villain for craig.

    You mean Kevin Spacey? Ouch. :D
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Jared Leto will make an amazing Bond villain in about 15 years once he’s gotten some age on him
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    marketto007 wrote: »
    Goldeneye0094 wrote: »
    If waltz is truly not coming back as blofeld then i say christopher plummer would be a great final villain for craig.

    You mean Kevin Spacey? Ouch. :D

    Kevin Spacey was always one of my favorites for a bond villain but unfortunately we know it's never going to happen
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,410
    I'm getting bored of waiting around with no news....

    I have a hunch that if EON are unable to convince Denis Vilenueve to direct they'll go for a diversity pick.

    Barbara Broccoli has been pushing for female voices in films for a while. She produced the (apparently awful) "Silent Storm' on the basis that a female director was involved. Additionally, both her upcoming projects outside of Bond, 'Nancy' and 'Rhythm Section', are made by women.

    I expect either a female or ethnic minority director will make Bond 25

    Reed Morano could be in the frame, especially since her name is being thrown around for Star Wars:

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/is-reed-morano-next-star-wars-director-1075060

    Or perhaps Lynne Ramsay? She's got an assassin thriller out this year that looks very Nicholas Winding Refn-esque....


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    I'm getting bored of waiting around with no news....

    I have a hunch that if EON are unable to convince Denis Vilenueve to direct they'll go for a diversity pick.

    Barbara Broccoli has been pushing for female voices in films for a while. She produced the (apparently awful) "Silent Storm' on the basis that a female director was involved. Additionally, both her upcoming projects outside of Bond, 'Nancy' and 'Rhythm Section', are made by women.

    I expect either a female or ethnic minority director will make Bond 25

    Reed Morano could be in the frame, especially since her name is being thrown around for Star Wars:

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/is-reed-morano-next-star-wars-director-1075060

    Or perhaps Lynne Ramsay? She's got an assassin thriller out this year that looks very Nicholas Winding Refn-esque....
    No diversity name has been in the media recently. They've all been white males, so I find it unlikely although one never knows. As long as they know what they're doing, I couldn't care less. I'm partial to Susanne Bier. She knows how to deliver a thrilling story.
  • antovolkantovolk
    edited January 2018 Posts: 3,164
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    I'm getting bored of waiting around with no news....

    I have a hunch that if EON are unable to convince Denis Vilenueve to direct they'll go for a diversity pick.

    Barbara Broccoli has been pushing for female voices in films for a while. She produced the (apparently awful) "Silent Storm' on the basis that a female director was involved. Additionally, both her upcoming projects outside of Bond, 'Nancy' and 'Rhythm Section', are made by women.

    I expect either a female or ethnic minority director will make Bond 25

    Reed Morano could be in the frame, especially since her name is being thrown around for Star Wars:

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/is-reed-morano-next-star-wars-director-1075060

    Or perhaps Lynne Ramsay? She's got an assassin thriller out this year that looks very Nicholas Winding Refn-esque....


    Morano is already doing Rhythm Section for EON. Ramsay though would be an incredibly inspired choice, YWNRH is fantastic (saw it at London Film Fest) and that raw yet stylish combination is a perfect fit if they're going back to something closer to CR. Definitely a better pick than someone like Demange for sure. She'll bring that well-known prestige indie cred that comes with people like Villeneuve, while being 'journeyman' enough to be a good Bond fit.

    Also, it's already gotten me thinking of the possibility of a Johnny Greenwood Bond score...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,007
    The Handmaid's Tale must be incredible since her name is getting attached to so many high-profile gigs already.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I won't be surprised if the next Bond film completely shifts directions and brings in new blood.
  • Tuck91Tuck91
    Posts: 1,680
    Mendes is one of their backups imo.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,243
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    Mendes is one of their backups imo.

    Campbell should be the "backup"! Let him bookend Craig's run as Bond, and bring back Arnold as well.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,356
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Considering Madeline is Mr White’s daughter, that leads to all kinds of interesting possibilities for her character. But creative team failed.

    True. If they were going to remake OHMSS (or at least Tracy/Draco), they could have done much more with her.
  • antovolkantovolk
    Posts: 3,164
    echo wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Considering Madeline is Mr White’s daughter, that leads to all kinds of interesting possibilities for her character. But creative team failed.

    True. If they were going to remake OHMSS (or at least Tracy/Draco), they could have done much more with her.

    They still can if she's back for B25.
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    The Handmaid's Tale must be incredible since her name is getting attached to so many high-profile gigs already.

    It's really great.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    antovolk wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Considering Madeline is Mr White’s daughter, that leads to all kinds of interesting possibilities for her character. But creative team failed.

    True. If they were going to remake OHMSS (or at least Tracy/Draco), they could have done much more with her.

    They still can if she's back for B25.
    I certainly hope they don't go this route. I don't think they will because no matter how disappointed I may be with the current trajectory, they've not attempted something as stupid as a direct remake yet thankfully. The closest is perhaps this Blofeld reboot which fell flat.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    It's hard to beat the loveliness of this...

    mission-impossible-rogue-nation-poster-rebecca-ferguson.jpg

    If I buy the bike, will she come with it?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    It's hard to beat the loveliness of this...

    mission-impossible-rogue-nation-poster-rebecca-ferguson.jpg

    If I buy the bike, will she come with it?
    If that’s the case, I’d buy one myself and just let her ride it for me as I watch her. ;)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    bondjames wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Matter of taste, I suppose.

    Kind of sums up my feelings for Lea Seydoux.

    And mine. Don't find Seydoux to be jaw-droppingly stunning nor horrendously ugly but the fact that her character was so poorly written and her chemistry with Craig so forced made me dislike her more than I probably should have.

    McQuarrie and Ferguson created a much better female character than the Bond team did this time round.
    My sentiments exactly. I don't dislike Seydoux, however. I'm just indifferent.
    Same here. Interestingly Seydoux was instantly forgettable for me in SP but quite memorable in MI-GP. She looked better with the bangs, and her assassin character was pretty interesting. I can't believe it's the same actress, and wish there was more of Sabine Moreau.

    That's a good point. Seydoux was far more memorable and better utilised in MI than in her forgettable Bond film. This should not be happening. Period.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,243
    It all goes back to the writing.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,545
    Speaking about Bond 25 on Graham Norton's radio show this morning, Ben said "Yeah, I think I am. But again, I know nothing about it. Not read a script, not heard a peep out of them."
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Speaking about Bond 25 on Graham Norton's radio show this morning, Ben said "Yeah, I think I am. But again, I know nothing about it. Not read a script, not heard a peep out of them."
    Sounds like Q is not returning. Will we get the stripped down thriller I've been dreaming about?
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