No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • edited February 2018 Posts: 4,619
    patb wrote: »
    It's interesting that the Director's have such a higher profile than the script writers. Looking at Hodge's work, it's a mixed bag IMHO. We seem to spend 95% of the time discussing the director and 5% of the time discussing the script writer but there is an argument it should be the other way around.
    Don't forget that Danny Boyle himself is an Oscar nominated screenwriter.
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.
    I don't understand either, but this is exactly what EON and other production companies of big budget movies have been doing for many many years.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I like some of the work P&W have done, but SP shows they have run out of ideas.
    I dislike the screenplay of SP and dislike P&W even more, but you can't lay Spectre's script problems at their feet. They were hired it the last minute and had to polish a turd.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Jake update
    Will do when I get home. I do have a life, you know.
  • patb wrote: »
    It's interesting that the Director's have such a higher profile than the script writers. Looking at Hodge's work, it's a mixed bag IMHO. We seem to spend 95% of the time discussing the director and 5% of the time discussing the script writer but there is an argument it should be the other way around.

    Because regardless of what we discuss eon will hire p&w basically guaranteeing that the script will suck.
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2018 Posts: 10,512
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    It's interesting that the Director's have such a higher profile than the script writers. Looking at Hodge's work, it's a mixed bag IMHO. We seem to spend 95% of the time discussing the director and 5% of the time discussing the script writer but there is an argument it should be the other way around.

    Because regardless of what we discuss eon will hire p&w basically guaranteeing that the script will suck.

    There’s more to writing a script than ‘writing a script’. I tried to politely outline further up the thread why you can’t view the writing as a singular, sheltered process that defines the finished product.

    I just don’t think people bother to read, which is why a valued and experienced (now ex) member left the boards because he was constantly challenged by those who haven’t the slightest idea of the ‘process’.

    It’s easy to make bold assertions, I get that, but, particularly when it comes to writing, these projects can become clusterfucks and that’s not the choice of the writer.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 11,425
    “To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script, and the script.”

    Answers on a postcard to B. Brocolli. The winner gets a vintage signed copies of P&W’s TWINE script.
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2018 Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote: »
    “To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script, and the script.”

    A beautifully nostalgic sentiment. Just telling it how it is in 2018. Not 1960. Don’t shoot the messenger.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The script getting rewritten while filming isn t uncommon.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The script getting rewritten while filming isn t uncommon.

    It’s inevitable.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 11,425
    RC7 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    “To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script, and the script.”

    A beautifully nostalgic sentiment. Just telling it how it is in 2018. Not 1960. Don’t shoot the messenger.

    I don’t doubt that you are correct, I just wonder whether this is actually necessary of just a symptom of how the industry has grown and developed?

    Is it not possible to still build a film around an excellent script that remains essentially unchanged (obviously there will always be some changes) during development and shooting, or does the script always have to be a mash up of different writers and producers and whoever having their contribution?

    Why technically can’t you have a great script that remains the core of the film throughout? Are writers incompetent?

    It also feels like this problem afflicts EON in particular. When was the last time they had a decent script ready as they started shooting?
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2018 Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    “To make a great film you need three things - the script, the script, and the script.”

    A beautifully nostalgic sentiment. Just telling it how it is in 2018. Not 1960. Don’t shoot the messenger.

    I don’t doubt that you are correct, I just wonder whether this is actually necessary of just a symptom of how the industry has grown and developed?

    Is it not possible to still build a film around an excellent script that remains essentially unchanged (obviously there will always be some changes) during development and shooting, or does the script always have to be a mash up of different writers and producers and whoever having their contribution?

    Why technically can’t you have a great script that remains the core of the film throughout? Are writers incompetent?

    It also feels like this problem afflicts EON in particular. When was the last time they had a decent script ready as they started shooting?

    It’s completely possible, but when your budget starts pushing $200m you need guarantees. You either trust the talent, or you meddle. The latter is usually the default. I hate it, obviously, but I’m just trying to give some context to why certain things happen.

    As producers they have to ask themselves, ‘as much as you may love the script the new hot-shot writer has delivered, have you got the balls to follow through, or do you go for the stalwart, gauranteeing that when it goes tits up, and your superiors are looking for answers you can say, ‘well, it worked last time’.

    Just to confirm, I despise this approach I’m on the negative receiving end in my job, but I know it happens.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    It also feels like this problem afflicts EON in particular. When was the last time they had a decent script ready as they started shooting?
    It does seem to afflict them a fair amount, although there are other large productions (DC & even Disney's SW offshoot films) that suffer from similar issues.

    In my humble view there is need for someone with a bit more operational control and oversight over there.

    I also believe they need a more streamlined organizational structure (there seems to be far too many fingers in the pie these days, with MGM, EON, Studio, Director and now even Craig chirping in). That is why I'm open to whatever happens behind the scenes after B25 is eventually released.

    I can appreciate that scripts aren't written in a vacuum, but that is something which affects all films and not just Bond output.
  • I can't see how the producers, writers and Daniel Craig all sat down to discuss where to take bond 25 last year, then to consider another director would want his own writer for a totally new script. It doesn't make sense. If anything I would say Boyle may request his own writer to help rewrite the script to some of his vision and ideas but keeping the story that all parties must of discussed and been working on for the best part of a year!
  • Posts: 11,425
    I don’t think Boyle would want to do that unless Purvis and Wade have written something amazing - of which the chances are less than zero.
  • Posts: 1,407
    I wonder if certain things like locations and some action scenes line up so that no matter which script they go with, some things will be in place no matter what
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    Push comes to shove danny boyle and john hodge are tweaking purvis and wade's script cause I can't see how broccoli and wilson are considering a second completely different script this late in the game.
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2018 Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote: »
    I don’t think Boyle would want to do that unless Purvis and Wade have written something amazing - of which the chances are less than zero.

    I know you’re being somewhat facetious, but isn’t that the impossibility we face? How do you write something ‘amazing’ when so many people have polarising opinions of what Bond should be? Putting aside the obvious retort of ‘a passable script would be a start’, what’s the answer? I think you just have to go on instinct don’t you and see where it takes you? SW fans are starting to realise the issues Bond fans have grappled with for years.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Bond looks for Vesper's kid. Hmmm. Glad they scrapped that idea. I don't want kids in a Bond film unless they're being pushed off a boat into a river.

    Or being made fun of at a Las Vegas casino.

    Are DAF, TMWTGG, and CR the only three films that feature kids at all?
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    I’m very confused & rather concerned at this point with this script talk. The lack of news on top of it is really bothering me now.
  • Posts: 727
    TripAces wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    They’re constantly developing scripts. I don’t think anyone need get too worried at this stage.
    Dennison wrote: »
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.

    Happened with Quantum (original release date announced while Casino was finishing production) and SPECTRE (release date was announced in July 2013, Logan didn't submit his first draft script until March 2014).

    They started work on the QoS script whilst CR was in production.

    True enough, though Roger Michell (when approached about the job) didn't feel the story was developed enough. Marc Forster later said he decided to toss the P&W work and start from scratch.

    Another example of the complexity of the process. Accommodating creative egos is something of a challenge.

    I don't blame Forster. I remember reading that because of the writer's strike, they had to go back to much of the previous script. Forster did not want a sequel to CR; but it ended up being so. Because they had a mish-mash of two scripts, he and DC were revising the story and script as they went along. No writers were allowed to do it.

    Given the issues they had with QoS, it's quite an accomplishment that Forster was able to pull off what he did. My ONLY beef with the (re)writing was the plane scene with Bond and Camille which really, really needed to breathe. Their conversation was going somewhere and than WHAM! here come bullets and the fighter planes.

    There were at least three separate stories: 1) Whatever P&W put together 2) Bond looks for Vesper's kid (rejected) 3) The script we got.

    Also, once the strike was over (and it didn't last the entire production), Joshua Zetumer was brought on to do polishes. Stories written *during production* mention him, including this website, MI6. But he's been forgotten because the "Forster and Craig had to rewrite the movie themselves" narrative took hold from 2011 onwards.

    Good heavens no! Bond is supposed to be escapism. A dream that you enter into for a couple of hours to forget about your day to day maladies.

    Bringing a kid into the venture zaps you right back to the real world. Forces you to relive the thought of your own brat, your divorce and copious amount of child support.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Push comes to shove danny boyle and john hodge are tweaking purvis and wade's script cause I can't see how broccoli and wilson are considering a second completely different script this late in the game.

    Late? While making Spectre, they basically had nothing at this point.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Bringing a kid into the venture zaps you right back to the real world. Forces you to relive the thought of your own brat, your divorce and copious amount of child support.
    I would gladly take a return to a more fantastical premise and approach, but that may upset some of the purists who've been a bit spoiled of late. I don't care what they do with B25 to send Craig on his way, but I sincerely hope we get back to high fantasy combined with a bit of whimsy and frivolity for the new chap.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    bondjames wrote: »
    Bringing a kid into the venture zaps you right back to the real world. Forces you to relive the thought of your own brat, your divorce and copious amount of child support.
    I would gladly take a return to a more fantastical premise and approach, but that may upset some of the purists who've been a bit spoiled of late. I don't care what they do with B25 to send Craig on his way, but I sincerely hope we get back to high fantasy combined with a bit of whimsy and frivolity for the new chap.

    same here
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    bondjames wrote: »
    Bringing a kid into the venture zaps you right back to the real world. Forces you to relive the thought of your own brat, your divorce and copious amount of child support.
    I would gladly take a return to a more fantastical premise and approach, but that may upset some of the purists who've been a bit spoiled of late. I don't care what they do with B25 to send Craig on his way, but I sincerely hope we get back to high fantasy combined with a bit of whimsy and frivolity for the new chap.

    If this doesn't happen I will likely lose any interest in new installments to the franchise.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Part of me hopes that this rumour is true. Personally, I'm much more enthusiastic about Danny Boyle helming Bond 25 than shaky-cam Yann Demange.
  • Posts: 1,548
    As long as Bond 25 is as enjoyable as Spectre I’ll be happy.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Bond looks for Vesper's kid. Hmmm. Glad they scrapped that idea. I don't want kids in a Bond film unless they're being pushed off a boat into a river.

    You mean the script was even closer to Bourne Supremacy before the strike???

    Wow.


    Anyway, in regards to this apparent conundrum of too many cooks spoiling the broth, the obvious solution would be to take things back to "when we'll have the advantage" to quote Skyfall. Bond is probably the only major franchise that has any kind of freedom creatively. EON still control the production of the films, no? So, instead of inviting more cooks to have a taste of the broth and giving their input (giving Craig a co-producer credit has to be one of the biggest face palms in recent memory), the better move would have been to take back control of their property. Push people out of the conversation, not invite more in. Their are distributors out their that would kill be have a property like Bond. Choose one of the little guys that are happy to butt out and let EON get on with it. Hire workmanlike directors and lesser known actors, and put more effort into the script instead, where it's needed. There are solutions to the problem, that don't involve throwing ones arms up in the air and saying "wadaya gonna do?" Not to mention doing this would actually save money, millions. Bond is probably the only franchise that can get away with this because it is still relatively independent compared to the likes of Star Wars and others. EON should use their advantages and what makes them unique instead of trying to be like the other guys all the time. Just sayin.
  • Posts: 5,767
    I don t understand how they can announce a film s release date without a proper script first.
    Isn´t that common practise in Hollywood?

  • LeChiffre wrote: »
    As long as Bond 25 is as enjoyable as Spectre I’ll be happy.

    Then you should be a happy camper for sure.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    As long as Bond 25 is as enjoyable as Spectre I’ll be happy.

    Then you should be a happy camper for sure.

    The odds are certainly in his favor
  • Posts: 727
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    As long as Bond 25 is as enjoyable as Spectre I’ll be happy.

    Some of us want a decent movie, mate. Bond pictures don't come about too often.
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