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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,453
    My point being that you can have a more thematic story, without making it dour. TLJ did not get bogged down in sadness or "staring into the middle distance" scenes. This is my gripe with the modern Bond movies, above anything else. They focus on drama and character at the cost sucking the fun out. Quantum, Skyfall and SP are all guilty of IMO.

    I have no problem with Bond 25 having a message and exploring a theme, as long as they can keep intact that familar sense of style and flair the series is known for. I miss the experience of watching a Bond film to be thrilled, first and foremost, which does not seem to be the goal anymore. If they can find a way of doing that which feels authentic, and having more to say at the same time - brilliant!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    @Mendes4Lyfe
    Do GE and CR answer to that description?
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited December 2018 Posts: 2,541
    Univex wrote: »
    After her father perhaps. A true shady character. But that would mean Bond gets betrayed by two existentially significant women. Damn, guy sure knows how to pick them, right? But @bondjames treatment of that angle works very nicely, I must say.

    Vesper didn't exactly turned a villianous but yet she did betrayed him . But @bondjames and @DarthDimi brings some really great insight which I didn't thought before.i might have to watch SP again. I am now even more excited for bond 25 then I was before.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,453
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe
    Do GE and CR answer to that description?

    I would say yes, but those were not thematic as much as grounded with a slight more focus on character. Even CR is quite reserved compared with where the next 3 films went.

    I see what people are saying when they say that those old films are outdated, and maybe its true thst we won't again have a sequence of Bond bedding one woman while another is shoved in the closet. Theres plenty of wacky shananigans back then that would just seem too much like aping the past were they repeated. But they have to keep up some aspect, some element of tradition. I think for Bond this is a vibrance and swagger which was there from the start.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    Red_Snow wrote: »

    I wonder if Craig has wrapped filming?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited December 2018 Posts: 24,257
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe
    Do GE and CR answer to that description?

    I would say yes, but those were not thematic as much as grounded with a slight more focus on character. Even CR is quite reserved compared with where the next 3 films went.

    I see what people are saying when they say that those old films are outdated, and maybe its true thst we won't again have a sequence of Bond bedding one woman while another is shoved in the closet. Theres plenty of wacky shananigans back then that would just seem too much like aping the past were they repeated. But they have to keep up some aspect, some element of tradition. I think for Bond this is a vibrance and swagger which was there from the start.

    True enough. And yes, I agree that the previous couple of films have been relatively bleak and that a thorough character study of Bond isn't necessarily hampered by what I'll call, for lack of a better term, cheerful hedonism. The Nassau section of CR, with Bond laughingly winning Dimitrios's car and his girl, and Bond meeting Vesper are among the last "amusing" scenes I've seen in the Bonds. What is there in the next three films amounts to little more than a few short moments, often enveloped in a single spoken line.

    It's a difficult balance, for sure. Take LTK for example. A brutal film, constantly punching us in the stomach. First Della, then Felix, then Sharky. Bond resigns and is almost shot by his own people. Then he's set loose in Enemyland with no backup and both Hongkong Narcotics and MI6 moving in on him; and they mean business. Bond tells them to piss off--is this the same Bond that put a parrot on the phone with Thatcher? All the while, Bond is planning a dirty deed, an unglamorous act of revenge. Really, where's the fun? And then Q drops by, and we get one visual joke after another, the biggest of all being the fact that this silly grampa with his Hanna Barbera gadgets like explosive toothpaste and killer cameras will actually assist Bond in his plans. Imagine Inspector Clouseau stepping in to help The Man With No Name do his thing in FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE. LTK tried to cure its own darkness with a medicine that felt completely out of touch with the rest of the film. The Q scenes eat away some of the strength that I admire in LTK. If that's what they will do to add a little joy to an otherwise pretty dark film, I prefer the darkness all the way; like in the case of chocolate, when I'll take the bitter 95 % cacao version in its purest form if the only thing they've got to sweeten it out with is banana candy for the wee ones.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    When did Bond fans become such miserable arseholes?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    RC7 wrote: »
    When did Bond fans become such miserable arseholes?

    Excuse me?
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    In an another dimension the great Danny Boyle has already concluded the first week of filming on the most unique Bond movie ever.

    Is there a portal?

    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    Some Bond movies the vast majority of Bond fans would hate but I would love to see:

    1. A Bond movie with Bond only having a supporting role
    2. A Bond movie without any villains
    3. A Bond movie made up of 4-6 independent short films, each about a small mission

    How about a drama that follows Bond's journey to become a chess grandmaster? An action free movie, but with a lot of intrigue and romance.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    RC7 wrote: »
    When did Bond fans become such miserable arseholes?
    A day after the release of Dr No.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Craig seems to get tarred with the personal angle but it didn't start in his era.

    Yes it's more intense but Brosnan was doing it from TWINE onwards.

    I don't necessarily think they'll jetison the idea entirely with the next Bond, probably not so integral to the plot but it will be there still.

    I think the days of A to B travelogues where Bond is just used as a device to get you from one scene to another with no real insight into the character are long gone.

    I don't think you'll find any subsequent actor taking on the part not wanting to dig into Bond's psyche and show what makes him tick.

    DC's Bond has shown this and the next actor will want their chance to show their Bond isn't just some cool guy by the name of James Bond who goes on missions.

    The element of the fanbase that want this back again I'm afraid are likely to be disappointed. I could be wrong but the way that things have moved on I don't see the kind of Bond that Connery or Moore played ever happening again.

    To be fair it started with LTK.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    bondjames wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I don't have any problems with the introspective navel gazing Bond. If that's what they want to do, go for it, even though I personally find it tiresome after all this time.

    Where I have issues is when you want me to believe that this wreck is also the quipping, super cool Bond of yore. I don't buy 5ft whatever, tight suit fitting Craig as that Bond. I bought him as the broken Bond, who openly cried when his girlfriend and boss died. Not the one who couldn't care less when his new love left him on the streets of London.

    He was motivated by his duty. It's 007 after all. BTW in SP it always seemed to me that it was Madeleine the one more interested in a love relationship between the two. She's the one who tries to play with Bond's psyche in order to convince him to quit the life of her father. She's the one that really fall in love with him, as proven by the torture scene. She's the one who seem to really care about a real relationship and that's why she decides to leave after she understood - in the Hildebrand Print and Rarities scene - that Bond cared most about his work than her feelings.

    I'm pretty curious now because she's an interesting character that wasn't able to express its full potential. But I'm 100% sure that if she's goin to suffer a "Tracy" treatment Bond reaction to her death would be totally different than Vesper's.
    I get the duty bit. I was making a point about the nonchalance not squaring well with the inner turmoil within the same cinematic characterization.

    In terms of Bond's feelings towards Madeleine, sadly Smith's song indicates something more than what you suggest, which leads to further confusion for the viewer. They have an opportunity to address what these two have going on (is it a relationship of convenience of one of heartfelt commitment?) soon enough, and they'd better get it right.

    I'd be quite happy if she ends up being a conflicted Vesper type who leans to the dark side - one who was playing him. As I mentioned earlier, she has that mischievous thing going on. Perhaps he ends up saving her from herself, and that is the 'complete arc' vs. Vesper who he failed to save. On Valentine's Day, how more apropos is that?

    I don't consider the themes of the movies part of the equation, if I have to judge character's actions. BTW yes, since she's coming back I hope they'll capitalize her presence exploring this relationship. Honestly I'm against the idea of killing her in the firs couple of minutes.
  • JET007JET007
    Posts: 632
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm rather fond of Madeleine. Despite what many claim, I find her fitting very well into the long list of Bond girls, albeit perhaps more the literary ones. She keeps her distance, has a troubled past of sorts, knows when to remain quiet and balances between reluctance and desire when she follows Bond around. She's not unlike the literary Tiffany Case, Domino or even Solitaire.

    Madeleine rarely smiles and there's an introverted aura around her, emphasised by the fact that when we see her, it's in an empty office in an underpopulated building standing alone in the mountains, or in a hotel room that seems to exist in a different dimension, cut off from the world so to speak, or in the desert, in Blofeld's remote hideout... Even in London, we rarely see her except in vacant streets or empty buildings. Her own father, from whom she had grown alienated, is seen in this film all by himself, hidden away in a barely accessible room in a shack hidden in the mountains, behind thick layers of mist. The Whites are synonymous with being "alone" and possibly "lonely" too. Bond is also alone: look at his apartment. Even Moneypenny calls him out on it.

    Perhaps it's because I'm something of an introvert too, someone who wouldn't mind journeying around the world if it was just me and only one significant other, that I'm drawn to their relationship, that despite the emotional barriers I can still sense the warmth that exists between them. Perhaps I'm being reminded of relationships that I have had, which weren't all that different, of two people mostly left to themselves, meeting up, bonding quickly but solidly, living the 'L Américain scene as it were. Perhaps from experience, I recognise chemistry where others see an impossible team-up; I can feel love where others find nothing of the sort. Their romantic cue in the score exists of barely more than a few piano notes and some distant strings. Everything expresses the "aloneness" of Madeleine and Bond. I can accept that this is not what most people want to see, but then only about 25 % of the population is introverted, so perhaps that explains the overwhelming hostility towards Madeleine in some discussions.

    In any case, having watched SP close to 15 times now, possibly more, I can safely say that I enjoy the presence of Madeleine; and even though there's barely any competition as it is, I think she's the second best Bond girl in the Craig era, behind the near perfect Vesper of course. After seeing SP for the first time in 2015, I walked out thinking that if they ever brought her back, it would make perfect sense, at least to me. And though I haven't the faintest idea of what they're planning to do with her in B25, I will concede that if she spends a good portion of the film alongside Bond, like she does in SP, I'll probably come out a happy fan.

    Very well said. I felt they had great chemistry as well and you made a great observation about Madeleine and her isolation.
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,412
    If anyone was apprehensive about Madeline, then hopefully this video can remind you of terrific moment from SP.



    Great performance by Seydoux. Look at the eye contact and finesse in her execution.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    I'm glad to have Madeline back- I really like Seydoux's performance in SP. But if they kill her off to motivate Bond into action, I'll leave the theatre pretty disgusted. Very hopefull for the film though. Lots of good folks at work on it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    This is what sold her to me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    If anyone was apprehensive about Madeline, then hopefully this video can remind you of terrific moment from SP.



    Great performance by Seydoux. Look at the eye contact and finesse in her execution.
    This is easily one of her better scenes in the film. Notice how she's not speaking here. Nothing wrong with the physical acting, but I feel her character was calling out for Nikki Van Der Zyl to clean up the vocals, which were wrong to me in many places.

    BTW, this is one of the scenes, along with the backstory about someone (Blofeld?) coming to her house, which makes me think she can be a decent villain. There was enough left to the imagination which can be filled in.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    Posts: 17,821
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    If anyone was apprehensive about Madeline, then hopefully this video can remind you of terrific moment from SP.



    Great performance by Seydoux. Look at the eye contact and finesse in her execution.

    I guess some of us don't have an issue with Seydoux or her acting abilities or anything – but rather that the character of Madeline feels thinly written (like the rest of the film), and forgettable. Bringing her back might make up for that opinion, if Cary does his things well, but it might backfire too.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    While we are speculating (of course), I would prefer to Madeline to NOT be killed. Simply because that is so utterly predictable in film (not just Bond films). A great script is needed, definitely. I'm still quite hopeful. And I liked Lea in Spectre. How she will fit into the story is something we will not learn for a long time, I think.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Great to FINALLY have some official news on Bond 25!!!! That's all for now as I am concluding my own thoughts on what may happen?
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe
    Do GE and CR answer to that description?

    I would say yes, but those were not thematic as much as grounded with a slight more focus on character. Even CR is quite reserved compared with where the next 3 films went.

    I see what people are saying when they say that those old films are outdated, and maybe its true thst we won't again have a sequence of Bond bedding one woman while another is shoved in the closet. Theres plenty of wacky shananigans back then that would just seem too much like aping the past were they repeated. But they have to keep up some aspect, some element of tradition. I think for Bond this is a vibrance and swagger which was there from the start.

    True enough. And yes, I agree that the previous couple of films have been relatively bleak and that a thorough character study of Bond isn't necessarily hampered by what I'll call, for lack of a better term, cheerful hedonism. The Nassau section of CR, with Bond laughingly winning Dimitrios's car and his girl, and Bond meeting Vesper are among the last "amusing" scenes I've seen in the Bonds. What is there in the next three films amounts to little more than a few short moments, often enveloped in a single spoken line.

    It's a difficult balance, for sure. Take LTK for example. A brutal film, constantly punching us in the stomach. First Della, then Felix, then Sharky. Bond resigns and is almost shot by his own people. Then he's set loose in Enemyland with no backup and both Hongkong Narcotics and MI6 moving in on him; and they mean business. Bond tells them to piss off--is this the same Bond that put a parrot on the phone with Thatcher? All the while, Bond is planning a dirty deed, an unglamorous act of revenge. Really, where's the fun? And then Q drops by, and we get one visual joke after another, the biggest of all being the fact that this silly grampa with his Hanna Barbera gadgets like explosive toothpaste and killer cameras will actually assist Bond in his plans. Imagine Inspector Clouseau stepping in to help The Man With No Name do his thing in FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE. LTK tried to cure its own darkness with a medicine that felt completely out of touch with the rest of the film. The Q scenes eat away some of the strength that I admire in LTK. If that's what they will do to add a little joy to an otherwise pretty dark film, I prefer the darkness all the way; like in the case of chocolate, when I'll take the bitter 95 % cacao version in its purest form if the only thing they've got to sweeten it out with is banana candy for the wee ones.
    I don´t know. There´s LTK, and there´s a dark film like SF, which is literally dark. LTK is filmed in a way (lighting, Colors) that softens the brutality considerably. It was like that when it was first released, and it didn´t Change.

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    If anyone was apprehensive about Madeline, then hopefully this video can remind you of terrific moment from SP.

    Hopefully. She was great in SP and I really hope she won't suffer a Tracy treatment in 25 but at the same time it's almost impossible that she will have the same amount of screen time and resonance in the new movie. BTW this video also reminds how beautiful the cinematography of this movie is.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    IMHO, Lea was not at all a problem in SP - it was all down to the bad script. The relationship between her and Bond can and most likely will be presented in a better way in B25. I am curious, which way they wanna go this time - I am not at all against some more OHMSS elements used for their story arc. It fits Craig‘s interpretation of Bond - I just hope the mission itself will be interesting and suspenseful.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    IMHO, Lea was not at all a problem in SP - it was all down to the bad script. The relationship between her and Bond can and most likely will be presented in a better way in B25. I am curious, which way they wanna go this time - I am not at all against some more OHMSS elements used for their story arc. It fits Craig‘s interpretation of Bond - I just hope the mission itself will be interesting and suspenseful.

    Evidence for this ofcoarse being that people who were great in skyfall ( moneypenny, Q, Mallory) had “bad” acting and bad dialogue in spectre. Perhaps it was all down to the writing. However it was more or less the same writing group as skyfall.... well at least we’ve got somewhat new writers on this new one
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited December 2018 Posts: 2,541
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    If anyone was apprehensive about Madeline, then hopefully this video can remind you of terrific moment from SP.



    Great performance by Seydoux. Look at the eye contact and finesse in her execution.

    I think my favorite scene of Madeline from SP was in L'american one.
  • FrankXavierFrankXavier
    Posts: 678
    Can we refrain from getting political in this thread.
  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    edited December 2018 Posts: 832
    To those saying that the character of swann can be improved in bond25: it can’t, the damage is done. Involvement of spectre characters will just bring the shadow of that film over this one (waltz would be far worse, but I don’t think they’ll go down that route). Much better to introduce new characters/ plotlines. However, if they want to use seydoux they can use her as a sylvia trench type, her character is developed enough for that, but not much more.

    Absolutely nothing about seydoux as an actress- the scene above is well acted. It was the abysmal writing.
  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    edited December 2018 Posts: 832
    FrankXavier wrote: »
    Can we refrain from getting political in this thread.

    I was intriuged by the possibility of craig’s bond on a mission in russia, and it has absolutely nothing to do with us politics (about which you would probably find my views repulsive).
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    To those saying that the character of swann can be improved in bond25: it can’t, the damage is done. Involvement of spectre characters will just bring the shadow of that film over this one (waltz would be far worse, but I don’t think they’ll go down that route). Much better to introduce new characters/ plotlines. However, if they want to use seydoux they can use her as a sylvia trench type, her character is developed enough for that, but not much more.

    Absolutely nothing about seydoux as an actress- the scene above is well acted. It was the abysmal writing.

    Bad writing abounds in SF and SP IMO. I really don't know what Mendes was playing at given his experience in the theatre etc. Both films sadly feel rather cobbled together.

    Seydoux just seems miscast. Little chemistry there. Odd they want her back. Still, let's see what happens.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited December 2018 Posts: 15,423
    Getafix wrote: »
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    To those saying that the character of swann can be improved in bond25: it can’t, the damage is done. Involvement of spectre characters will just bring the shadow of that film over this one (waltz would be far worse, but I don’t think they’ll go down that route). Much better to introduce new characters/ plotlines. However, if they want to use seydoux they can use her as a sylvia trench type, her character is developed enough for that, but not much more.

    Absolutely nothing about seydoux as an actress- the scene above is well acted. It was the abysmal writing.
    Bad writing abounds in SF and SP IMO. I really don't know what Mendes was playing at given his experience in the theatre etc. Both films sadly feel rather cobbled together.

    Seydoux just seems miscast. Little chemistry there. Odd they want her back. Still, let's see what happens.
    Very well said.

    I love Seydoux as an actress. From her minor character in Ghost Protocol to Blue Is the Warmest Colour and beyond. But, she was terribly miscast. I don't think she fares well as Vesper/Tracy type with a troubled past who just happens to warm up to Bond in time. She's more of the Irma Bunt type.
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