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No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Benjamin_Weekly69Benjamin_Weekly69 London
    Posts: 727
    Still nervous about an American directing Bond. Sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat, thinking that Bond has been absolutely ruined by brazen Yank hands. Thankfully they are but nightmares. For now...
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Brazen Yank hands, as you call it, have been producing your favourite film franchise since the beginning of time.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Brazen Yank hands, as you call it, have been producing your favourite film franchise since the beginning of time.

    And a Canadian as well— at least for the first twelve years....

    (Then that brazen Canuck turned traitor— “not exactly our finest hour”)
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    peter wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Brazen Yank hands, as you call it, have been producing your favourite film franchise since the beginning of time.
    And a Canadian as well— at least for the first twelve years....

    (Then that brazen Canuck turned traitor— “not exactly our finest hour”)
    Precisely, old boy. Well put. :D
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    edited December 2018 Posts: 4,619
    Benjamin_Weekly69 wrote: »
    Still nervous about an American directing Bond. Sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat, thinking that Bond has been absolutely ruined by brazen Yank hands. Thankfully they are but nightmares. For now...
    What I am deeply worried about is that they have completely abandoned Boyle's movie gold idea. This tweet by MI6 HQ is still haunting me:
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited December 2018 Posts: 10,591
    I think it's safe to assume that whatever aspects from Hodge's draft they were happy with are likely to carry over into Purvis & Wade's in some form or another.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    So what’s the gold idea? Without knowing what it is, how can anyone be concerned that it wasn’t used?
    Also , if the “gold idea” itself wasn’t the cause of the split, it may have involved much more, EON still has the option to integrate it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    jake24 wrote: »
    I think it's safe to assume that whatever aspects from Hodge's draft they were happy with are likely to carry over into Purvis & Wade's in some form or another.

    After all, Boyle and Hodge don’t own the script. EoN does, and they can, and they will, use their property in whatever way they see fit.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    According to @peter, a friend of his in the know told him the cause of the split was because Boyle tried to "change the culture of the character too much", and Eon were not comfortable with it.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    According to @peter, a friend of his in the know told him the cause of the split was because Boyle tried to "change the culture of the character too much", and Eon were not comfortable with it.

    If that's true, then good riddance.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Remington wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    According to @peter, a friend of his in the know told him the cause of the split was because Boyle tried to "change the culture of the character too much", and Eon were not comfortable with it.
    If that's true, then good riddance.
    My sentiments exactly.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    As far as I know, and I think it’s been documented by this point, they were not happy with Boyle’s direction at all; and yes, it was said the direction was too radical.
    Plus I also heard the script was far too “action-lite” which no one was particularly pleased with. That’s when tensions rose because the powers that be insisted on some polishes to be done by someone other than Hodge (a writer(s) that could punch up the action.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    That sounds like Boyle alright. Exactly what I feared it would be and knew it deep down all along. That "gold" idea would've been more or less a "mold" idea.
  • TorgeirtrapTorgeirtrap
    edited December 2018 Posts: 17,753
    PanchitoPistoles wrote: »
    Benjamin_Weekly69 wrote: »
    Still nervous about an American directing Bond. Sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat, thinking that Bond has been absolutely ruined by brazen Yank hands. Thankfully they are but nightmares. For now...
    What I am deeply worried about is that they have completely abandoned Boyle's movie gold idea. This tweet by MI6 HQ is still haunting me:

    Hope we'll get to know what this idea was about at some point.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    edited December 2018 Posts: 3,000
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    According to @peter, a friend of his in the know told him the cause of the split was because Boyle tried to "change the culture of the character too much", and Eon were not comfortable with it.
    peter wrote: »
    As far as I know, and I think it’s been documented by this point, they were not happy with Boyle’s direction at all; and yes, it was said the direction was too radical.
    Plus I also heard the script was far too “action-lite” which no one was particularly pleased with. That’s when tensions rose because the powers that be insisted on some polishes to be done by someone other than Hodge (a writer(s) that could punch up the action.

    This is all news to me and it makes me even happier that Boyle is gone. “Changing the culture of the character too much” is tantamount to undoing the character.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I always imagined Boyle's film would be very polarizing.

    I'm sure some of the action elements from Hodge's draft will cary over into the current script as those sequences take months of planning.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Benjamin_Weekly69 wrote: »
    Still nervous about an American directing Bond. Sometimes I wake up in a cold sweat, thinking that Bond has been absolutely ruined by brazen Yank hands. Thankfully they are but nightmares. For now...

    Had similar nightmares after watching GE in 95. Campbell redeemed himself somewhat though with CR (although a recent rewatch confirmed my belief that even CR is somewhat overrated).
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Dr. No is action light. So is FRWL by today’s standards. I don’t think we should dismiss Boyle especially since he said he was beholden to Ian Fleming which can mean a lot of things but I don’t see it as undoing the character. I would be very interested to know what he wanted to do. Maybe his take would be wrong but I am not going to be quick to give EON and Craig the benefit of the doubt... the Brosnan years, disappointing Craig tenure, SF emo Bond, retcon, Brofeld... At least Boyle has a track record of good focused story telling. EON does not.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Dr. No is action light. So is FRWL by today’s standards. I don’t think we should dismiss Boyle especially since he said he was beholden to Ian Fleming which can mean a lot of things but I don’t see it as undoing the character. I would be very interested to know what he wanted to do. Maybe his take would be wrong but I am not going to be quick to give EON and Craig the benefit of the doubt... the Brosnan years, disappointing Craig tenure, SF emo Bond, retcon, Brofeld... At least Boyle has a track record of good focused story telling. EON does not.
    I hear you.

    I'm going to reserve judgment on Boyle's idea and approach until I hear from the principals on what actually took place and why. If we don't hear directly from them in the future (I doubt anything will be forthcoming until B25 has done its box office run) then that's fine with me too as it's not all that important as far as I'm concerned. Eventually the accurate details will come out.

    More important for me is that this long gestating film be decent, be worth the wait and not be subject to any further delays.

    I'm not getting my hopes up about it based on any comments from anyone here or from the current director either because, as we can see, things change. There's been a fair deal of strange hyperbole out there with this film since 2017, from promised highs to 'golden ideas' to the quality of the supporting actors being brought back etc.

    Cast and composer will go a long ways towards allaying any concerns I may currently have about the upcoming installment.
  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    Posts: 2,115
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    According to @peter, a friend of his in the know told him the cause of the split was because Boyle tried to "change the culture of the character too much", and Eon were not comfortable with it.

    I'm guessing .@peter's friend is getting the Eon spin. We don't really know how Boyle and Hodge would cast it.

    I'm not disputing that .@peter has connections. I'm just saying unless you could actually view what Hodge produced, we don't really know. At least at this point.
  • DrClatterhandDrClatterhand United Kingdom
    Posts: 349
    Don't worry, and Cary on regardless...
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I’m not sure if you can call it an EoN spin, necessarily @AlexanderWaverly; rather this truly is what often does happen on big franchise pics: there were creative differences.
    As I said, I think some of this has now been documented in various reports, but at the time there was a rumble that there were several elements to Boyle’s departure: his vision of Bond, he didn’t want anyone touching the script, the producers definitely wanted new eyes on the script (with the goal of developing more “action), and a couple of other details here and there that I’m not privy to speak about, but it all results in the Director had a vision that was no longer jelling with the producers, nor the leading man.

    There’s no spin to it, since this is not saying one is more right over the other.

    However, personal opinion: I’m putting my money on EoN and the guy playing the role for four films, rather than a guy that in the past said he really doesn’t want to direct a James Bond picture, lol!
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Yeah my money is on neither :) Boyle didn’t want to direct, not because he didn’t like Bond, but because he didn’t want corporate movie Mgmt interfering. Eon and Craig hired him in the first place so there’s questions in that. And of course we go back to P&W which is also telling. I want this movie to be well written and given the time involved it should be.

    I’m suspiciously hopeful but will remain in doubt until watching the movie. I like CF as a filmmaker but does he get Bond, and escapist suspense/action movies... is he writing substantially (and with limited time and openness)... is he considered innovative by Eon for delivering on an innovative story or trying to punch up P&W’s stale bread or was that just press release jabber.

    The casting and scoring @bondjames will definitely help in my hopes too. Actually, posters and the title song may help too. When I first saw that CR teaser poster it immediately gave me some hope they were headed in right direction. Conversely, with SP the opposite feeling with the generic marketing Dept posters and then the release of the Writings on the Wall...
  • AgentM72AgentM72
    Posts: 831
    I'll certainly be interested to know, one day, what Boyle's vision was. And to hear more about these 'first-hand' accounts MI6 HQ had of the existing Hodge script.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    The casting and scoring @bondjames will definitely help in my hopes too. Actually, posters and the title song may help too. When I first saw that CR teaser poster it immediately gave me some hope they were headed in right direction. Conversely, with SP the opposite feeling with the generic marketing Dept posters and then the release of the Writings on the Wall...
    Excellent point about the posters and the title song. Same here. It all goes together and has an impact. For example, nothing did more to deflate my opinion of SP before I saw it than Smith's effort (except perhaps for Craig's infamous Timeout remarks which preceded the film). I too felt something was off in the marketing materials prior to release. The trailers seemed off too. It's just a feeling one gets, although it's in the eye of the beholder, so I can appreciate that what didn't work for me could have had an opposite effect on someone else.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Sensible points @DoctorNo ... Boyle is indeed given much more leeway on the indie scene than on a franchise picture.

    I think EoN hired him because of an idea, as stated. But it sounds like the execution of the script was off the mark-- it happens.

    I would love to learn more about what that idea was, and if it makes it into this upcoming feature, or one down the line. I can't imagine anyone going over this ground in the near future, so, something to watch out for will be the credits: will Hodge be given a screenwriting credit, and/or will Boyle be given a Story By credit? One or the other? Or both? If not, then I think it'd be almost safe to say the idea didn't survive CF's polishes.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    Boyle’s “Great” Idea May be retained . I have a feeling that if it were revealed right now, there would be a collective, ‘ that’s it?’
    A great deal of hiring Boyle was the design to snag a prestigious director.
  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    edited December 2018 Posts: 2,115
    //
    However, personal opinion: I’m putting my money on EoN and the guy playing the role for four films, rather than a guy that in the past said he really doesn’t want to direct a James Bond picture, lol!//

    And that's fine. I'm just saying we don't really know. It's a matter of faith or trust, rather than a matter of knowledge.

    Also, this is the same Eon that was willing to park the original Purvis and Wade treatment off to the side for a number of months because the Boyle/Hodge idea was so intriguing. Until it wasn't.

    I suppose you could say that's no harm, no foul. But it did delay development of Bond 25.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I don’t know what to say @AlexanderWaverly other than to say the film business is a strange one and when developing a film, it’s never a straight line from Point A to Point B. The Marvel Universe looks slick, but there were many battles and changes and many many many drafts of scripts behind the scenes.

    Whatever happened with Boyle doesn’t surprise me since this has happened on films before, it will happen many times again in the future.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    bondjames wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    The casting and scoring @bondjames will definitely help in my hopes too. Actually, posters and the title song may help too. When I first saw that CR teaser poster it immediately gave me some hope they were headed in right direction. Conversely, with SP the opposite feeling with the generic marketing Dept posters and then the release of the Writings on the Wall...
    Excellent point about the posters and the title song. Same here. It all goes together and has an impact. For example, nothing did more to deflate my opinion of SP before I saw it than Smith's effort (except perhaps for Craig's infamous Timeout remarks which preceded the film). I too felt something was off in the marketing materials prior to release. The trailers seemed off too. It's just a feeling one gets, although it's in the eye of the beholder, so I can appreciate that what didn't work for me could have had an opposite effect on someone else.

    True. I thought the SP trailer was the best in years suggesting the film was going to be a classic.
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