No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 4,619
    Lee-Maxwell-Llewelyn total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    1 Golden Globe win

    Fiennes-Harris-Whishaw total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    3 Oscar nominations
    7 Golden Globe nominations
    2 BAFTA wins + 10 BAFTA nominations

    Very impressive tally, and I'm glad you took the time to look them up and tot them up for us.

    This from the same man who claimed that our next DOP would be the first Oscar winning Cinematographer to work on a Bond film, though. So....
    Claimed? I asked.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    bondjames wrote: »
    Unfortunately all of these character interpretations (and I mean all) have been irreparably damaged for me due to SP. Shame.

    Having said that, even if the film had been better pulled together, I think there are issues with the casting choices. Naomi Harris isn't MP to me. I believe she is severely miscast for the characterization they are trying to portray. She was most credible before she was introduced as MP. I recall cringing slightly in the theatre at the end of SF when the revelation occurred.

    Whishaw is decent enough as a nerdy, younger Q, and perhaps is more in line with what we would expect today. However I think he is somewhat outshone by a similar character in another well known series, who originated this kind of interpretation and who therefore owns it.

    Fiennes is serviceable as M, but he's no Dench in the part. He's a good actor, but I feel he lacks the gravitas of Dench and Lee. Perhaps some of that may be on account of his age vis-a-vis Craig. If he is retained after a recast I may be able to more readily buy into him as MI6 head with a younger actor as Bond. He was more credible as 'just Mallory'.

    In terms of awards, I don't pay any attention whatsoever to Hollywood nonsense like the Oscars or Grammys because they are heavily politicized (wait for Black Panther to win a few this year). However, I do respect theatrical awards because there are still high standards in that realm (and I'm a theatre fan). Both Fiennes and Whishaw are respected for their skills in this area.

    You hit the nail on the head
    Lee-Maxwell-Llewelyn total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    1 Golden Globe win

    Fiennes-Harris-Whishaw total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    3 Oscar nominations
    7 Golden Globe nominations
    2 BAFTA wins + 10 BAFTA nominations

    Why do you do this?
  • edited December 2018 Posts: 4,603
    @bondjames Have to agree with that first observation. You can't remove these movies from your memory (I wish I could). SP did no favours to any of these three talented actors. Such a shame
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited December 2018 Posts: 10,591
    I really can't fathom why people's perceptions of these characters drifted so much post-SP, as if the characters were used catastrophically. Moneypenny and M were dull and poorly written, but it amuses me how some blame the actors when it is clearly the result of poor script writing that is quite easily repairable, IMO. And the Whishaw/Simon Pegg comparison, well, let's compare the former's comedic timing in SP with that latter's in MI Fallout ("This won't hurt...enough!"). Pegg's Benji may have paved the way for Whishaw's Q's acceptance by the audience but this type of role was in no way invented by Pegg.
  • edited December 2018 Posts: 4,619
    patb wrote: »
    You can't remove these movies from your memory (I wish I could).
    I'm hoping that BOND 25 will make ignoring Spectre the easiest thing in the world. Yes, Madeleine is back but that doesn't mean the film won't stand on its own. If BOND 25 will be great, then CR+SF+Bond 25 will be my personal Craig Bond Trilogy and I will ignore QOS and SP for the rest of my life.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited December 2018 Posts: 4,583
    Since we are talking about Naomi Harris again, people can hate the Scooby Gang™ all they want, but the current M-Moneypenny-Q trio is easily the best the series has ever had.

    I still prefer Dench to Fiennes, but in general, you're correct. And Harris is terrific--the sort of sexy agent (those legs!) that Bond would find appealing. SF did a great job of leaving up to the imagination what happened between them in Macao. And did I mention those legs? @ClarkDevlin couldn't be more wrong about her.

    21431979346_c9057f407e_b.jpg
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I never questioned her sex appeal. She is as portrayed above in that regard.

    As a character, @TripAces, it's your word against mine.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,583
    I never questioned her sex appeal. She is as portrayed above in that regard.

    As a character, @TripAces, it's your word against mine.

    I think the words you used were "wrongly interpreted." I think she's perfectly cast-a good interpretation of the character. Perhaps you mean that she should simply remain behind a desk. That's more subjective. I prefer the fact that Moneypenny is in the field a little bit.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    TripAces wrote: »
    I never questioned her sex appeal. She is as portrayed above in that regard.

    As a character, @TripAces, it's your word against mine.

    I think the words you used were "wrongly interpreted." I think she's perfectly cast-a good interpretation of the character. Perhaps you mean that she should simply remain behind a desk. That's more subjective. I prefer the fact that Moneypenny is in the field a little bit.
    She is wrongfully interpreted. Naomie Harris portrays her as a field agent type, which Moneypenny is anything but. She's also meant to be the softer type a la Thandie Newton, for example. Harris is more the capable one you'd find believable when she pulls the gun on you to make a point. Moneypenny isn't that.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2018 Posts: 8,207
    Lee-Maxwell-Llewelyn total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    1 Golden Globe win

    Fiennes-Harris-Whishaw total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    3 Oscar nominations
    7 Golden Globe nominations
    2 BAFTA wins + 10 BAFTA nominations

    Very impressive tally, and I'm glad you took the time to look them up and tot them up for us.

    This from the same man who claimed that our next DOP would be the first Oscar winning Cinematographer to work on a Bond film, though. So....
    Claimed? I asked.

    There were no question marks.
    jake24 wrote: »
    I really can't fathom why people's perceptions of these characters drifted so much post-SP, as if the characters were used catastrophically. Moneypenny and M were dull and poorly written, but it amuses me how some blame the actors when it is clearly the result of poor script writing that is quite easily repairable, IMO. And the Whishaw/Simon Pegg comparison, well, let's compare the former's comedic timing in SP with that latter's in MI Fallout ("This won't hurt...enough!"). Pegg's Benji may have paved the way for Whishaw's Q's acceptance by the audience but this type of role was in no way invented by Pegg.

    I don't know about that. The only real offenders are Harris and Kinnear. Harris is a fine actress but I still find her incredibly miscast in the part. Kinnear has had very little to work with but he hasn't really put in anything to make Tanner even remotely interesting. A strong character actor would make these parts stand out even with the dodgy writing.

    Which is exactly why Wishaw and Fiennes excel in their respective roles.

    As for Benji? Yes, I agree with you. I enjoyed him in M:I-3 and Ghost Protocol but if he were killed off in the next one I'd be absolutely fine with that. They've done all they can with him as a character. A weaklink in the M:I team now, imo. I'd never say the same about Q.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Lee-Maxwell-Llewelyn total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    1 Golden Globe win

    Fiennes-Harris-Whishaw total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    3 Oscar nominations
    7 Golden Globe nominations
    2 BAFTA wins + 10 BAFTA nominations

    Halle Berry is an Oscar winner. I guess that makes her the best Bond girl by default.
  • jake24 wrote: »
    I really can't fathom why people's perceptions of these characters drifted so much post-SP, as if the characters were used catastrophically. Moneypenny and M were dull and poorly written, but it amuses me how some blame the actors when it is clearly the result of poor script writing that is quite easily repairable, IMO. And the Whishaw/Simon Pegg comparison, well, let's compare the former's comedic timing in SP with that latter's in MI Fallout ("This won't hurt...enough!"). Pegg's Benji may have paved the way for Whishaw's Q's acceptance by the audience but this type of role was in no way invented by Pegg.

    These are merely Skyfall characters. They were introduced three at a time and suddenly Bond was a veteran and assumed all the credit for old series' events rather than to continue the story with loose ends from QoS. They were not the good part of what SP had to offer including the interesting story of the very fact that Bond formed a relationship with the daughter of Mr. White, aka the guy who had a hand in Vesper's dealings up to her death.
  • Posts: 1,165
    Since we are talking about Naomi Harris again, people can hate the Scooby Gang™ all they want, but the current M-Moneypenny-Q trio is easily the best the series has ever had.
    Only in your opinion.

    In the official series, so far, they're the worst. Fiennes had all the potential to be a Bernard Lee type of an M, but so far, I haven't seen anything memorable from him in the slightest. Quite a waste of the actor's talents. As for Moneypenny and Q, they couldn't be more wrongfully interpreted.

    I know what you mean about Fiennes. His acting in his two movies so far has been bizarre. He snears an awful lot and comes across as being massively uninterested in the material.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    TR007 wrote: »
    Since we are talking about Naomi Harris again, people can hate the Scooby Gang™ all they want, but the current M-Moneypenny-Q trio is easily the best the series has ever had.
    Only in your opinion.

    In the official series, so far, they're the worst. Fiennes had all the potential to be a Bernard Lee type of an M, but so far, I haven't seen anything memorable from him in the slightest. Quite a waste of the actor's talents. As for Moneypenny and Q, they couldn't be more wrongfully interpreted.
    I know what you mean about Fiennes. His acting in his two movies so far has been bizarre. He snears an awful lot and comes across as being massively uninterested in the material.
    Exactly.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Remington wrote: »
    Lee-Maxwell-Llewelyn total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    1 Golden Globe win

    Fiennes-Harris-Whishaw total number of Oscar, Golden Globe and BAFTA nominations & wins:
    3 Oscar nominations
    7 Golden Globe nominations
    2 BAFTA wins + 10 BAFTA nominations

    Halle Berry is an Oscar winner. I guess that makes her the best Bond girl by default.

    She is certainly one of the best looking.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited December 2018 Posts: 2,541
    patb wrote: »
    You can't remove these movies from your memory (I wish I could).
    I'm hoping that BOND 25 will make ignoring Spectre the easiest thing in the world. Yes, Madeleine is back but that doesn't mean the film won't stand on its own. If BOND 25 will be great, then CR+SF+Bond 25 will be my personal Craig Bond Trilogy and I will ignore QOS and SP for the rest of my life.

    That's a nice way of looking at it. Both CR & SF are standalone films with only Judi Dench as Recurring cast with bond. I am sure Lea seydoux return won't make much difference to the story.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,207
    TR007 wrote: »
    Since we are talking about Naomi Harris again, people can hate the Scooby Gang™ all they want, but the current M-Moneypenny-Q trio is easily the best the series has ever had.
    Only in your opinion.

    In the official series, so far, they're the worst. Fiennes had all the potential to be a Bernard Lee type of an M, but so far, I haven't seen anything memorable from him in the slightest. Quite a waste of the actor's talents. As for Moneypenny and Q, they couldn't be more wrongfully interpreted.
    I know what you mean about Fiennes. His acting in his two movies so far has been bizarre. He snears an awful lot and comes across as being massively uninterested in the material.
    Exactly.

    I thought he did quite well, personally. He was saddled with a large majority of the incredibly dull C/Whitehall scenes in SP and managed to make M seem genuinely invested in the Secret Service and Bond's plight as opposed to just being a civil servant type. A nice development on his Skyfall persona.

    I mean, the sub-plot itself was still ham-fisted and had about as much energy as an Uncle's boring birthday party story, but Fiennes did a pretty good job.
  • edited December 2018 Posts: 1,282
    Rory Kinnear's Tanner is actually what QoS & SF needed to counterbalance what was going on the whole time, being the issues at stake. His script lines and portrayal probably the most professional and does his job as working for M without making anything personal.

    Kinnear's definitely welcome back and if you look at the circumstances that he was brought in, being Bond and M's darkest days in MI6, you can say that he helped keep the characters focused and onward. He deserves more credit than given. The very fact that he makes a return in SF is one of the few redeeming factors that doesn't erase any trace memory of the CR-QoS timeline.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited December 2018 Posts: 8,392
    What can we expect from January 2019 with regards to Bond 25?
  • Posts: 16,149
    I wonder if Fleming would even remotely recognize the current Scooby Gang as the characters he created for Bond's MI6 office team?
  • What can we expect from January 2019 with regards to Bond 25?

    Nothing unless you want spoilers to ruin the movie for you. What's a title going to do?
  • ToTheRight wrote: »
    I wonder if Fleming would even remotely recognize the current Scooby Gang as the characters he created for Bond's MI6 office team?

    The current office team is simply a mere reflection of the situation and people that the Millennial generation is stuck with.
  • Posts: 16,149
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I wonder if Fleming would even remotely recognize the current Scooby Gang as the characters he created for Bond's MI6 office team?

    The current office team is simply a mere reflection of the situation and people that the Millennial generation is stuck with.

    I wouldn't mind a complete re-cast after this next film. I'd love to see Fleming's actual characters: Admiral Miles Messervy, Major Boothroyd and Moneypenny return. Maybe a Tanner that embodies the Tanner in the books?
  • edited December 2018 Posts: 4,619
    What can we expect from January 2019 with regards to Bond 25?
    A lot actually. Unofficial news about casting, locations, new crew members. Maybe even title rumours.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2018 Posts: 23,883
    jake24 wrote: »
    I really can't fathom why people's perceptions of these characters drifted so much post-SP, as if the characters were used catastrophically. Moneypenny and M were dull and poorly written, but it amuses me how some blame the actors when it is clearly the result of poor script writing that is quite easily repairable, IMO. And the Whishaw/Simon Pegg comparison, well, let's compare the former's comedic timing in SP with that latter's in MI Fallout ("This won't hurt...enough!"). Pegg's Benji may have paved the way for Whishaw's Q's acceptance by the audience but this type of role was in no way invented by Pegg.
    @jake24, I'm not sure if you are addressing my earlier post with your remarks here, but given I brought up some of the items you reference, I'm going to clarify my thinking.

    1. Regarding perceptions of the characters changing so catastrophically - that's not entirely the case for me. As I pointed out earlier, I had issues at the end of SF with Harris as MP even in that film. The jury was out on Fiennes as M at the end of SF for me. Fiennes & Whishaw are more than competent and actually can possibly fit the characterizations they have been given (Whishaw certainly can, as evidenced by his role in SF), so I'm not blaming them. As mentioned earlier, with Fiennes it's more the lack of gravitas in comparison to Lee, Brown and Dench. This is not a comment on his acting, but rather how he appears as the character of M to me.

    2. Now, regarding Whishaw as Q vs. Benji. My point is that the MI character was established earlier as a sort of 'in field' younger comic relief support for the protagonist. That was a role that he made succesful in two films that preceded SP. I personally find him amusing as that character, although slightly annoying at times (I think that's what he's meant to be). He certainly owns that type of interpretation in my mind at this moment imho. I had no problems with Whishaw in SF because he was mainly behind the desk. Any comparisons were more with 24's Chloe. However, in SP they decided to make him a sort of pseudo field operative like Benji. That, to me at least, brought unfavourable comparisons with MI:GP and RN. Why? Well because I had already by that time accepted Benji's role and involvement as the character he had been clearly defined to be. This new Q was still being defined, and as they dumped him in the field with his computer it just seemed like an uncreative 'have your cake and eat it too' cop out to me, particularly since the comic exchanges that many were raving about here (cats and mortgages and what not) didn't jive for me in the film. I think the film makers should have gone for more differentiation with Benji when deciding to involve what is essentially a new Q character in more film time, or at least make sure that they knocked it out of the park (which they didn't for me).

    3. Regarding your question about why this isn't readily reparable - well, these interpretations don't have a history yet. They were only set up as the old characters at the end of SF (except for Q). So SP was the first real chance we had to see them in their defined roles. If the roles don't work for some of us for whatever reason, then that's just the way it is. I don't know about other members, but I've never had a problem with the acting or the intepretations of any of the previous incarnations of M, Q or MP. I may have preferred the earliest versions, but at least the later ones were, up until now at least, internally consistent and credible (even if somewhat dislikeable on occasion) over a series of films. I can't say that about this new batch. Can it be fixed? Sure it can. I'm more questioning whether it should be, at least for Craig's last.

    4. Re: my problem with Harris as MP, I've noted it a few times on here in the past, but it's got to do with her not being credible for me as a 'behind the desk type'. That's as much her game as Craig trying to be an insouciant Bond as far as I am concerned.
    TripAces wrote: »
    I never questioned her sex appeal. She is as portrayed above in that regard.

    As a character, @TripAces, it's your word against mine.

    I think the words you used were "wrongly interpreted." I think she's perfectly cast-a good interpretation of the character. Perhaps you mean that she should simply remain behind a desk. That's more subjective. I prefer the fact that Moneypenny is in the field a little bit.
    She is wrongfully interpreted. Naomie Harris portrays her as a field agent type, which Moneypenny is anything but. She's also meant to be the softer type a la Thandie Newton, for example. Harris is more the capable one you'd find believable when she pulls the gun on you to make a point. Moneypenny isn't that.
    I fully agree with you on this.

    --
    patb wrote: »
    @bondjames Have to agree with that first observation. You can't remove these movies from your memory (I wish I could). SP did no favours to any of these three talented actors. Such a shame
    Agreed @patb. This is why I would have strongly preferred they not come back and Craig be given a 'fresh start' for his last one. It's not a knock on the actors, but just a fact that I can't unsee what I saw, and it doesn't get any better on repeat viewings.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    @bondjames Fair points, and I appreciate the clarification.

    All in all, I guess B25 will determine these new incarnations' legacies a great deal.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It will @jake24, and we all hope for the best.

    It's risky for Fukunaga to bring them back imho, but hopefully he can make it all work, and ensure that their involvement is more organic and meaningful this time around.

    RE: Swann - I'm beginning to wonder if she will only appear in flashback. Perhaps they all will?
  • ToTheRight wrote: »
    I wonder if Fleming would even remotely recognize the current Scooby Gang as the characters he created for Bond's MI6 office team?

    As long as check cleared, he'd be OK with it.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,608
    I had a dream last night that I saw a trailer for the next Bond film. It had Christoph Waltz in it saying: It's all your fault, James. Other scenes of notice were Vincent D'Onofrio as a villain, Bond and Blofeld in the back of a truck, and a lot of scenes at night. I know that sounds crazy but I thought I would share it with everyone.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Vincent D'Onofrio as Blofeld... Now he'd be terrific as the literary Thunderball's incarnation of Blofeld.
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